Somebody explain liberalism today

[auburnatl1 4,957]

It’s easy to mock maga. I do it daily. But (per Bill Maher) what about Dems? Historically, liberalism existed to defend and elevate the less educated and  blue collar. What is today … Maga. So what is liberalism today, what is its base, and who does it serve?  If democrats profess to help “the little guy” and the little guy now hates you, … ummm.  Or does it now only serve racial and gender minorities and the college educated who obsess about them?

Imo neither party  today have much to say about corporations, taxes, the budget, education, economic classes, ect. I guess the financial stuff is now too complicated.  Just immigration, race,  and transgender. And neither have a coherent position on foreign policy ,other than magas seems to be to unconditionally defend the holy land, screw anyone  else. 

Yep, so there’s  maga - generally less  educated white folks who don’t want things to change. Got it. But is it any harder to figures out Dems? They’re simply everybody else.

 What happened to liberalism?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/do-the-woke-betray-the-lefts-true-principles.html

 

[TexasTiger 12,948]

29 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Imo neither party  today have much to say about corporations, taxes, the budget, education, economic classes,

Bernie talks about those things and you recently mocked him. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

40 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Historically, liberalism existed to defend and elevate the less educated and  blue collar. What is today … Maga.

Does it though? Does Donald Trump do anything to help the struggling blue collar and less educated? Or did he specifically target them as a voting base, because they’re the easiest target? 
 

The modern day Democratic Party for the most part is relatively moderate on economic policy, when you compare them to left leaning parties around the world. But they’re still the working class party. In fact, they represent just about everyone that isn’t filthy rich. 
 

The dems still champion social security, paid family leave, affordable healthcare, higher wages, tech jobs, clean energy & unions far far more than republicans. And the Bernie wing is basically trying to be a socialist labor party. 
 

I hope people don’t forget just how little the Republican House has done in the last two years. Biggest do nothing congress in history. 

[auburnatl1 4,957]

44 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Bernie talks about those things and you recently mocked him. 

Fair. I stand corrected. But I consider him more a socialist than a mainstream 2024 dem.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

Fair. I stand corrected. But I consider him more a socialist than a mainstream 2024 dem.

So Dems should advocate for the things “socialists” advocate for?

[TexasTiger 12,948]

20 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Fair. I stand corrected. But I consider him more a socialist than a mainstream 2024 dem.

You dismiss him as a fringe candidate when he came within an eyelash of winning the Democratic nomination in a stacked process. He caucuses as a Democrat.

Ever seen Katie Porter in action?

Democrats are the only ones seriously approaching those issues. Republicans distract with culture war issues and the so called liberal media lets them dictate what gets attention for clicks and views.

[aubaseball 2,625]

I must’ve been dreaming in last 3 years.   I could have sworn that DEI went into effect in the Federal Government and in the Education Department.   It trickled over into businesses all while democrats were in charge.    I guess I was dreaming when every time I listen to a speech by VP Harris the issue of race is somehow brought up, and the same goes for Uncle Joe.   The border has become such a joke that it’s not even remotely close to having a border.   
And it’s not Republicans that bring up race, that’s hilarious.   Who do you think talks about systemic racism every chance?   It’s the left.   

[auburnatl1 4,957]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

So Dems should advocate for the things “socialists” advocate for?

Youre missing the point.  Who does the liberalism serve? If it’s the working class (its heritage) - then there’s a big communication problem.  Because the working class today seems to hate government and is much more fixated on the border and bud light then economic inequality or class issues - making Bernie main focus pretty much irrelevant.

[homersapien 11,386]

3 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

It’s easy to mock maga. I do it daily. But (per Bill Maher) what about Dems? Historically, liberalism existed to defend and elevate the less educated and  blue collar. What is today … Maga. So what is liberalism today, what is its base, and who does it serve?  If democrats profess to help “the little guy” and the little guy now hates you, … ummm.  Or does it now only serve racial and gender minorities and the college educated who obsess about them?

Imo neither party  today have much to say about corporations, taxes, the budget, education, economic classes, ect. I guess the financial stuff is now too complicated.  Just immigration, race,  and transgender. And neither have a coherent position on foreign policy ,other than magas seems to be to unconditionally defend the holy land, screw anyone  else. 

Yep, so there’s  maga - generally less  educated white folks who don’t want things to change. Got it. But is it any harder to figures out Dems? They’re simply everybody else.

 What happened to liberalism?

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/05/do-the-woke-betray-the-lefts-true-principles.html

 

I hope all that was a quote from your referenced source. 

Edited April 13 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,386]

14 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Youre missing the point.  Who does the liberalism serve? If it’s the working class (its heritage) - then there’s a big communication problem.  Because the working class today seems to hate government and is much more fixated on the border and bud light then economic inequality or class issues - making Bernie main focus pretty much irrelevant.

Liberalism serves everyone.

I agree there something of a communications problem.  IMO, it's largely caused by Trump/Republican demagoguery.

Biden has done far more to help the poor and middle class than Trump did in his four years.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

18 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

Youre missing the point.  Who does the liberalism serve? If it’s the working class (its heritage) - then there’s a big communication problem.  Because the working class today seems to hate government and is much more fixated on the border and bud light then economic inequality or class issues - making Bernie main focus pretty much irrelevant.

I’d say instead of me missing the point you share a problem with the Dems- you’re doing a piss poor job communicating your point— you should be more sympathetic. 😉

[auburnatl1 4,957]

14 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

I’d say instead of me missing the point you share a problem with the Dems- you’re doing a piss poor job communicating your point— you should be more sympathetic. 😉

Thank you. You’ve helped me grow as a person😎

[auburnatl1 4,957]

16 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Liberalism serves everyone.

I agree there something of a communications problem.  IMO, it's largely caused by Trump/Republican demagoguery.

Biden has done far more to help the poor and middle class than Trump did in his four years.

If so there’s definitely a …. disconnect.

[TexasTiger 12,948]

1 minute ago, auburnatl1 said:

Thank you. You’ve helped me grow as a person😎

That’s why I’m here. 😉

[TexasTiger 12,948]

4 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

If so there’s definitely a …. disconnect.

And that’s kinda my point. Did you watch Katie Porter not only demonstrate an understanding of the day to day life of a working person, but challenge corporate finance behemoth Jamie Dimon at the same time? Did that break thru? How does one break thru when those working and paying bills don’t have time to follow such things?

[homersapien 11,386]

26 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

If so there’s definitely a …. disconnect.

I agree.  I lay that largely at the feet of media.

Here's an example:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/13/voter-perceptions-economy/

Voters think the nation is going off rails — just not in their state

Polls show voters believe their own state is doing much better than the country. The size of that gap could determine who wins in November.

Voters are not shy about saying how bad they perceive things are.

Ask if the nation is heading in the right direction, and barely a quarter of voters will say yes. Ask them whether the national economy is good, and more than 65 percent will say no.

Yet beneath those dire ratings, voters are much more upbeat about how things are where they live. A majority view their state’s economy as doing well, and many are likely to view the state — but not necessarily the nation — as being on the right track.

It’s a strange predicament that has puzzled some economists and has politicians in both parties searching for explanations. That chasm between the state of the states and the state of the nation could determine whether President Biden wins a second term and who will control Congress next year. All this could translate very differently when it comes to how voters size up candidates to represent them on the state, local and national level.

“I have a hard time explaining it, as the fundamentals of our economy are really good,” said Sen. Chris Coons (D-Del.), a close Biden ally, before rattling off recent national economic trends that are almost universally positive. “We’re still believing that something’s wrong with the country and things are bad and things are headed in a bad direction.”

“They’re saying our economy is good but the national economy stinks,” Sen. Thom Tillis (R-N.C.) said Thursday.

A recent, concrete example of this phenomenon came in a poll by the Wall Street Journal, released in early April, of seven key presidential battlegrounds: Arizona, Georgia, Michigan, Nevada, North Carolina, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin.

The head-to-head results drew much of the attention, with Trump narrowly leading in five states and essentially tied in two others. And a good deal of attention went to how, in aggregate, just 25 percent of voters in those states thought the nation was headed in the right direction and only 36 percent considered the nation’s economy “excellent” or “good.”

Tillis saw the poll and was surprised by how “really soft” North Carolina’s numbers were, with just 33 percent saying the economy was good.

He missed the question about how North Carolinians view their own economy: Sixty-four percent rated it as excellent or good. Basically, almost a third of his state’s voters think the national economy remains bleak but the Tar Heel State is doing quite well.

The same dynamic unfolds in all seven swing states. On average, 54 percent of voters said their state’s economy was excellent or good while 43 percent said it was not good, but their views of the national economy were reversed: 36 percent saying it was at least good, 63 percent disapproving of the nation’s economy.

(See link for polling results chart)

Sen. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev.), facing one of the tougher reelection battles this fall, said it makes sense that more than 50 percent of Nevadans believe their economy is solid, yet she struggles to understand the disconnect on why barely a third find the national economy to be strong.

“We see the billions of dollars from the infrastructure law and the Inflation Reduction Act that have come to Nevada, $500 million to a program we call Home Means Nevada for affordable housing. We have the first high-speed rail going in west of the Mississippi from Las Vegas to Los Angeles,” Rosen said.

Tillis is also bullish on North Carolina’s economy, with its 3.5 percent unemployment rate below the national average.

“Our economy is booming,” he said, citing recent private-sector investments in North Carolina worth $4 billion from a pharmaceutical manufacturer, $5 billion from a semiconductor company and $4 billion for electric-vehicle battery production.

He acknowledged that, despite continued concerns about inflation, most of the national economy is on sound footing.

“The reality is our economy is doing pretty well. Most of those other states are doing pretty good, most of them not as well as North Carolina,” Tillis said.

But according to the second-term senator, any question about the nation’s standing — whether about the economy or just about any issue — turns into a simple referendum on a president’s popularity.

“I could see why they’d feel like, ‘I’m good, but I don’t like where we’re headed nationally.’ I think that’s a proxy vote or job-approval vote,” Tillis said.

Coons suggested that part of the problem comes through media echo chambers still carrying out the battles over the past few years, particularly in conservative outlets where the economy is often talked down.

“Hangover from the pandemic and high inflation, and other political figures who are saying we’re in a recession when we are not,” he said.

Some Democrats don’t consider this to be a problem, but rather an opportunity, because many swing-state voters are seeing improvement in their daily lives. They predict that approval for the national outlook is a lagging indicator that Democrats have time to show progress before the November elections.

In May 2022, as inflation remained at 40-year highs, just 25 percent of Pennsylvanians said the state was headed in the right direction, according to the Franklin & Marshall College poll, which regularly tracks the state’s trajectory. Almost 65 percent viewed things to be going in the wrong direction.

But those numbers have steadily improved, with fewer than 50 percent of Pennsylvanians now saying the state is headed in the wrong direction. But according to the Journal poll, almost 70 percent Pennsylvanians still believe the nation is headed in the wrong direction.

The Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro, remains very popular now: Fifty-four percent approve of his performance, according to Franklin & Marshall. That’s almost 20 points higher than Biden’s approval in Pennsylvania, although this poll did have the incumbent president ahead of the ex-president in the head-to-head matchup.

Shapiro is not the only popular swing-state governor.

In Georgia, Republican Gov. Brian Kemp has an approval rating that almost exactly matches how voters feel about the state’s economy (59 percent rating it as good, 38 percent bad, according to the Journal poll). In North Carolina, Democratic Gov. Roy Cooper’s popularity easily outpaces the state’s senators’ ratings as well as those of the nominees to succeed him in office.

In Wisconsin, where the GOP-dominated legislature has clashed with him for years, Gov. Tony Evers (D) is also much more popular than any other figure in the state.

According to the Journal poll, 57 percent of Wisconsin voters consider their economy excellent or good, while just 40 percent do not like it.

Still, when asked about the national economy, Wisconsin voters flip those numbers around. And when they get asked about the overall direction of the nation, just 31 percent say it’s on the right track.

Tillis believes that national malaise comes through in a collection of issues that almost all are bad for Biden, including the border crisis, crime and crises overseas.

“I think it’s immigration. I think it’s economy. I think it’s international leadership,” he said. “There’s no other way to explain it.”

Some of this is a new normal, resembling a prior generation’s axiom that voters hated Congress but loved their own congressman.

In Virginia, for example, 53 percent of voters approve of the job performance by Republican Gov. Glenn Youngkin, according to a Roanoke College poll last month, and 49 percent approve of the job by the Democratic-controlled legislature in Richmond.

Just 37 percent of Virginians approved of Biden’s performance, with a lowly 16 percent approving of Congress.

Dean noted that inflation, which remained at a nettlesome 3.5 percent last month, still worries voters. But she remains optimistic that the

overall economy will continue to grow.

Those things, combined with liberal energy driven by abortion bans taking root in many states, give Democrats a good chance, she said.

“People are feeling these things, in areas after areas after areas,” Dean said of local economies. “There’s plenty of time. Layer into that women’s choice, women’s reproductive health — there’s plenty of time for a very big Biden win.”

Edited April 13 by homersapien

[DKW 86 7,426]

4 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

The modern day Democratic Party for the most part is relatively moderate on economic policy, when you compare them to left leaning parties around the world.

But they’re still the working class party. In fact, they represent just about everyone that isn’t filthy rich.
WTF! They are THE PARTY of the Billionaire. They care nothing about the middleclass and consider them to be the "basket of deplorables." No one in the middleclass supports the DNC.
 

The dems still champion social security, paid family leave, affordable healthcare, higher wages, tech jobs, clean energy & unions far far more than republicans.
Let me point out here that the Dems only look a nickel better because the Republicans have lost their ******* minds. They do not support the "basket of deplorables" in any way.

And the Bernie wing is basically trying to be a socialist labor party. 
And got hosed 5 ways to Sunday by the DNC in two consecutive elections. Granted, Bernie would never fully join the DNC.

I hope people don’t forget just how little the Republican House has done in the last two years. Biggest do nothing congress in history. 
This is 100% True. THE REPS DONT DO ANYTHING.

I dont have a clue what Democrat you are following but I assure they do not support anything that you just listed unless it makes one of their donors extremely wealthy.

[DKW 86 7,426]

4 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

You dismiss him as a fringe candidate when he came within an eyelash of winning the Democratic nomination in a stacked process. He caucuses as a Democrat.

Ever seen Katie Porter in action?

Democrats are the only ones seriously approaching those issues. Republicans distract with culture war issues and the so called liberal media lets them dictate what gets attention for clicks and views.

I want to point out that the real people that own the DNC care nothing for Porter.

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I dont have a clue what Democrat you are following but I assure they do not support anything that you just listed unless it makes one of their donors extremely wealthy.

You can’t find a democrat who supports a higher minimum wage or unions? Really?

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I want to point out that the real people that own the DNC care nothing for Porter.

I think we all know that both parties are owned by big money and special interests. I don’t think anyone would ever question that. The problem is the special interests that own the Republicans are gun lobbies and theocratic/autocracy sympathizers . The republicans are rolling back rights and causing material harm to people as a source of policy. Overturning Roe harmed poor/uneducated people worse than anything anyone has done in 100 years. 

[homersapien 11,386]

7 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Fair. I stand corrected. But I consider him more a socialist than a mainstream 2024 dem.

True enough.

But at least he hasn't taken over the Democratic Party.

[homersapien 11,386]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I want to point out that the real people that own the DNC care nothing for Porter.

And what's your evidence for that?

[DKW 86 7,426]

8 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

You can’t find a democrat who supports a higher minimum wage or unions? Really?

Sure they will TALK all day about it. The operative word is TALK. Then why is the Federal Minimum Wage still $7.25?

[DKW 86 7,426]

8 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I think we all know that both parties are owned by big money and special interests. I don’t think anyone would ever question that. The problem is the special interests that own the Republicans are gun lobbies and theocratic/autocracy sympathizers . The republicans are rolling back rights and causing material harm to people as a source of policy. Overturning Roe harmed poor/uneducated people worse than anything anyone has done in 100 years. 

And if you thought I disputed one word of that, you were simply mistaken.

I want a raised minimum wage, M4A, free college for 2 years and free trade school. Lets start there.

I support all the things that the LGB Community has gotten over the years. Did you know that the strongest marriages statistically are MM?

I want Free Speech for all. The very idea that one person in America could even publicly state that they supported " The Ministry of Truth" just shows us how far we have failed.

I don't want America from 10-20-30-40-50 years ago. I would like to see something like Gene Roddenberry's vision for us going forward. At the same time, I clearly see, as do many LGB people that some in the Trans Community have gone completely off their rockers. 

[DKW 86 7,426]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

And what's your evidence for that?

I read the papers. They are THE PARTY of the Billionaire.

They care nothing about the middle-class and consider them to be the "basket of deplorables." No one in the middle-class supports the DNC, it's why they are lining up behind trump.