Who wants to attack Iran?

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

17 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

I understand. I just want to hear the maga guys admit that they want US foreign policy and lives to  be shaped by the book of Exodus.

Here’s an idea. They’ve probably got 95%  of the AR-15s in this country just gathering dust and it’s only about a 11 hr flight to Ben Gurion  airport.  They could be in the mix by Tuesday. Have at it.

Wow, so you pose a question and claimed to be lost and don’t even wait for an answer before you fully jump into you assumptions.  Try better.  After reading my response I’m sure you will not believe anything I say and go ahead and call me a MAGA just to satisfy your beliefs.

Christians are not the only one void of logic as you claim.

Edited April 15 by I_M4_AU

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

More from Bruce;

 

Should he keep his mouth shut because he represents Auburn?  or is this freedom of speech?

[Leftfield 2,610]

39 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Talk about not understanding nuances…..

Feel free to explain the differences.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

3 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Feel free to explain the differences.

I did.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

I have been wrong about Fetterman and gladly admit it.

 

 

[Leftfield 2,610]

55 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I also critiqued the absence of an exit strategy.  It is another Afghan war, we not there to win.

How do you have an exit strategy for troops that aren't there?

 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

Just now, Leftfield said:

How do you have an exit strategy for troops that aren't there?

 

You have a way to end the conflict or in other words exit the conflict.

[Leftfield 2,610]

1 minute ago, I_M4_AU said:

You have a way to end the conflict or in other words exit the conflict.

But we can exit any time we want. Same situation, as was pointed out, as Israel. We don't have a way to end their conflict, yet you're OK with continuing to fund them. In fact, the goal for victory in Israel is far more nebulous than for Ukraine. 

[TexasTiger 12,949]

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I have been wrong about Fetterman and gladly admit it.

 

 

What have you been wrong about?

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

2 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

But we can exit any time we want.

Our current administration has said as long as it takes, so this is not true.  My problem is what is tha end game.  How long will it take?

4 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Same situation, as was pointed out, as Israel.

No it is not.  America is running the war in Ukraine.  Biden has no control over what Israel does and he hates it.

7 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

We don't have a way to end their conflict, yet you're OK with continuing to fund them. In fact, the goal for victory in Israel is far more nebulous than for Ukraine. 

Why should we end Israel’s conflict?  What gives us the right?  Is it written in the liberal bylaws that we must control all things?  We should fund our allies, we should not back countries that was to kill us.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

8 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

What have you been wrong about?

I thought he would be a vote for everything Dem without any thoughts of his own.

[Leftfield 2,610]

20 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Our current administration has said as long as it takes, so this is not true.  My problem is what is tha end game.  How long will it take?

No it is not.  America is running the war in Ukraine.  Biden has no control over what Israel does and he hates it.

Why should we end Israel’s conflict?  What gives us the right?  Is it written in the liberal bylaws that we must control all things?  We should fund our allies, we should not back countries that was to kill us.

What are you even talking about? America controls the war in Ukraine? Where are you getting that?

As I'm sure you're aware, just because we've said as long as it takes doesn't mean the next President can't come along and change that, so yes, we can stop funding any time we want. No doubt that's exactly what will happen if Trump is re-elected.

You're making a false statement to prop up your unequal treatment of Ukraine. Everything in your last paragraph should be interchangeable with both countries.

[TexasTiger 12,949]

32 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I thought he would be a vote for everything Dem without any thoughts of his own.

Didn’t you also think he was cognitively impaired?

[auburnatl1 4,961]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Exodus was a disaster. Think you mean “maga” by your definition wants to assist in fulfilling prophecy. You may be correct but “death to America” gets old.

Agreed. In one way Ukraine is much much simpler and familiar -  one autocrat trying to reconstitute his empire. He goes, war goes.  The Middle East is a cultural populace problem with a zillion moving parts. Way more complex. And yes - the rants do get old.

Edited April 15 by auburnatl1

[AU9377 4,967]

14 hours ago, JMWATS said:

I know lefties like to believe all Trump voters are MAGA because it simplifies things.  However,  that is simply not the case.   Many Americans don’t believe Biden is up for four more years and feel that their lives were better in 2016 - 2020 than they are now.    Had more money going into savings etc.

If you have savings, that savings is earning more interest today than it did in the 2016-2020 time frame.  The stock market has performed well above expectations.  Unemployment is at or near all time lows.  The problem is inflation.  That problem cannot be fixed by government action alone.  Until consumers curb spending, inflation will continue to be an issue. 

When rental properties sit empty, rental rates will drop. When homes see appreciation in amounts that have little justification outside of the demand for housing, there is no switch to flip that will make owning a home more affordable.

I have seen so many people inherit property in the past decade that had a base value of $50,000 when it was purchased in 1995.  They sell this debt free property for $300k to $400k or more and sink that money into other properties by way of an exchange for tax purposes.   It is easy to complain about the cost of their new properties or the insurance thereon, but they never complain about that  6x or 7x added value that they experienced initially, which put them into position to buy in the first place. 

I get it, we all want ours.  We want as much as we can get as quickly as we can get it.  My point is not that there is something wrong with that.  My point is that we cannot expect to have our cake and eat it too.  People in the U.S. have responded to price increases by taking on more personal debt, rather than changing their spending habits.  Most act as though they are entitled to live in a manner not dreamed of by their grand parents.  Until that is modified to some degree, not much will change.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

1 hour ago, TexasTiger said:

Didn’t you also think he was cognitively impaired?

Why can’t you just be straight forward on anything? Really.  Yes, I was thinking it would be a gamble to elect a person to the Senate when he is dealing with a stroke.  It was a lot to take on.  Turns out, after he was elected and went through a breakdown, his rehab actually straighten out his thinking.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

What are you even talking about? America controls the war in Ukraine? Where are you getting that?

When you limit assets you give to Ukraine, in essence, you are controlling the conflict.  Do you think Ukraine is autonomously making decisions about their conflict or is the U.S. *advising* Ukraine in military decisions?

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

As I'm sure you're aware, just because we've said as long as it takes doesn't mean the next President can't come along and change that, so yes, we can stop funding any time we want. No doubt that's exactly what will happen if Trump is re-elected.

BS and a cop out.  Biden surely believes he has another 4 years.

 

2 hours ago, Leftfield said:

You're making a false statement to prop up your unequal treatment of Ukraine. Everything in your last paragraph should be interchangeable with both countries.

Iran attacked a sovereign country as did Russia.  Biden immediately put sanctions on Russia and confiscated Russian oligarch’s possessions and money.  In the case of Iran, he told Israel to *take the win*.

Even you can see the difference.

[creed 1,640]

Supposedly some of the Iran missiles were launched from Iraq.  I thought the US was engaged with the Iraq government from a security, governing and diplomatic perspective. So what gives  with Iraq hosting missile launches for Iran?

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

1 minute ago, creed said:

Supposedly some of the Iran missiles were launched from Iraq.  I thought the US was engaged with the Iraq government from a security, governing and diplomatic perspective. So what gives  with Iraq hosting missile launches for Iran?

Iraq is run by Iran, always has, we tried to change that and it didn’t work.  A lot like Afghanistan, but with a lot less time invested.  Obama got out of Iraq and by that afternoon the government that was in place was gone.

[Leftfield 2,610]

8 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

When you limit assets you give to Ukraine, in essence, you are controlling the conflict.  Do you think Ukraine is autonomously making decisions about their conflict or is the U.S. *advising* Ukraine in military decisions?

Oh, good Lord. We advise Israel, too. Just like Ukraine, they can take or leave that advice. I guess if advising Ukraine is controlling then numerous European nations are, too? What an absurd statement.

 

10 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

BS and a cop out.  Biden surely believes he has another 4 years.

What cop out? Yes, Biden is committed to Ukraine and will almost certainly stick with them. That does not mean we are law-bound to do so. Even Biden can end aid if he changes his mind.

 

15 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Iran attacked a sovereign country as did Russia.  Biden immediately put sanctions on Russia and confiscated Russian oligarch’s possessions and money.  In the case of Iran, he told Israel to *take the win*.

Even you can see the difference.

Iran attacked in retaliation for their military leadership being taken out. And they did it in a way that they knew would fail.

Russia didn't just attack, they invaded. It wasn't in retaliation for anything, Putin just wanted it, and he used a ridiculous, made-up excuse. 

 

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

1 minute ago, Leftfield said:

Oh, good Lord. We advise Israel, too. Just like Ukraine, they can take or leave that advice. I guess if advising Ukraine is controlling then numerous European nations are, too? What an absurd statement.

Israel has said FU on a lot of the advise, I have only heard Ukraine beg for more money.  Does the EU and America being in NATO have anything to do with how Ukraine is handled?  Israel has said thank for the money, but we are going to run our own country, Ukraine is not capable at this point.

6 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Biden is committed to Ukraine and will almost certainly stick with them. That does not mean we are law-bound to do so. Even Biden can end aid if he changes his mind.

Biden has will go to the ends of the earth to give aid to Ukraine.  He even turned down protecting our own border to fund them as the Rep. wanted to tie the two.  He won’t change his mind by November, yes a cop out.

9 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Iran attacked in retaliation for their military leadership being taken out. And they did it in a way that they knew would fail.

A typical *save face* move by a ME country that still attacked a sovereign nation.  Let’s not split hairs here.  Terrorists and their supporters love to play this game.

12 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Russia didn't just attack, they invaded. It wasn't in retaliation for anything, Putin just wanted it, and he used a ridiculous, made-up excuse. 

I do not disagree, I just wish we could have been more agreesive in out aid to Ukraine.

[I_M4_AU 7,857]

Too funny:

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,128]

France and Britain seem to be in agreement with the Biden Administration.

“The attack was a failure,” British Foreign Secretary David Cameron said repeatedly in a BBC television interview Monday morning, describing it as a “double defeat” for Tehran in both military and geopolitical terms. “The right thing to do is not to escalate,” he said, when asked how Israel should respond. “We are urging them as friends to think with head as well as heart, to be smart as well as tough, and to recognize that Iran suffered this defeat, because the attack was a failure.”

Instead, Cameron said, he supported considering sanctions and other pressure tactics to keep Iran from conducting further attacks against Israel and to “rein in their proxies.”

In a television interview Monday morning, French President Emmanuel Macron also hailed the immediate response to Iran’s attack as a “victory for Israel,” emphasizing how it was largely thwarted — including with assistance from French air forces in Jordan. Macron said that the situation remained “very unstable” but that he was doing everything he could to avoid further escalation.

“It’s about convincing against a response that escalates,” Macron said. “Isolate Iran, succeed in persuading the countries of the region that Iran is a threat, build up sanctions, strengthen pressures against nuclear activity,” he said. “Then we can find a path to peace for the region.”

[auburnatl1 4,961]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Israel has said FU on a lot of the advise, I have only heard Ukraine beg for more money.  Does the EU and America being in NATO have anything to do with how Ukraine is handled?  Israel has said thank for the money, but we are going to run our own country, Ukraine is not capable at this point.

Biden has will go to the ends of the earth to give aid to Ukraine.  He even turned down protecting our own border to fund them as the Rep. wanted to tie the two.  He won’t change his mind by November, yes a cop out.

A typical *save face* move by a ME country that still attacked a sovereign nation.  Let’s not split hairs here.  Terrorists and their supporters love to play this game.

I do not disagree, I just wish we could have been more agreesive in out aid to Ukraine.

A new Cold War has (re)started with Western democracies pitted against autocracies (who have replaced communism).  I personally believe China is indirectly the puppet master encouraging flash points to test western resolve, military capabilities and new weapon systems, and depleting reserves of ammunition for prolonged conflict.

Imo the end game is Taiwan and retreating western span of influence. 

[AU9377 4,967]

6 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

Too funny:

 

 

Really?  The initial agreement entered into jointly by the U.S. and our allies, giving us some oversight into the nuclear program in Iran wasn't perfect, but it was a joint effort that did provide some leverage in exchange for economic incentives.  We weren't putting ourselves in a better position by withdrawing from that agreement and doing nothing.  

This is another example of it not mattering one bit what decisions are made, some will make it political and take the opposite position by default.  It makes any unified response impossible, all in the name of political gamesmanship.