Real Americans

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

It's a common thing these days for some people to bash our country and end their diatribe saying "I love my country and I'm proud to be an American." They make me puke.

This link shows the kind of people I'm proud of........REAL AMERICANS!!!!!!!!

www.managedmusic.com/beforeyougo.html

Turn up the sound.

[saniflush 0]

It's a common thing these days for some people to bash our country and end their diatribe saying "I love my country and I'm proud to be an American." They make me puke.

This link shows the kind of people I'm proud of........REAL AMERICANS!!!!!!!!

www.managedmusic.com/beforeyougo.htm

Turn up the sound.

220030[/snapback]

Can't get the link to work.

[TexasTiger 13,090]

It's a common thing these days for some people to bash our country and end their diatribe saying "I love my country and I'm proud to be an American." They make me puke.

This link shows the kind of people I'm proud of........REAL AMERICANS!!!!!!!!

www.managedmusic.com/beforeyougo.htm

Turn up the sound.

220030[/snapback]

Can't get the link to work.

220035[/snapback]

Maybe that means you're not a REAL AMERICAN!

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Can't get the link to work.

My mistake. Check the corrected link. It should end with html and not just htm.

[Bottomfeeder 244]

Yea,

Real Americans don't run. Rather they face things head on, instead of obtaining deferments (5) or joining the Air National Guard during times distress.

In Beijing, what is wrong with this picture?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Yea,

Real Americans don't run. Rather they face things head on, instead of obtaining deferments (5) or joining the Air National Guard during times distress.    

In Beijing, what is wrong with this picture?

220119[/snapback]

Unfortunately it's not possible for you to understand, and if you haven't noticed I don't spend any time trying.

[AURaptor 1,128]

In Beijing, what is wrong with this picture?

-------------------------------------------------

Yep. US Flag is upside down.

[otterinbham 0]

Ummm....Hey, ProudTiger. Bush-voting Republican here, but....

I'm not such a political partisan that I'm blind to problems with the current administration such as the incompetent handling of Iraq and Katrina. Further, I think the Bush administration has betrayed its ideals by boosting entitlements and spending money in a profligate manner. Further, I think W has done a God-awful job of articulating our strategy in the War On Terror. During World War II, FDR constantly communicated with the people of the country...It's called leadership.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party doesn't not represent an alternative. The Dems have no clear vision, and still subscribe to statist economic ideals. Want to discredit Keynsian economics? Look no further than Western Europe, whose economic growth is half that of the US over the past 25 years. Sure, it's only a 1.5% difference every year. But compound that over 25 years, and you get a 45% discrepancy in growth. Yet, Democrats continue to wistfully eye France and Germany as economic models, even as they battle double-digit unemployment and a very sluggish economy.

But, to get down to brass tacks, this is a Democracy, not a Autocracy. And if I think the President is running things like the Village Idiot and voice that opinion, that makes me a good American.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Ummm....Hey, ProudTiger. Bush-voting Republican here, but....

I'm not such a political partisan that I'm blind to problems with the current administration such as  the incompetent handling of Iraq and Katrina. Further, I think the Bush administration has betrayed its ideals by boosting entitlements and spending money in a profligate manner. Further, I think W has done a God-awful job of articulating our strategy in the War On Terror. During World War II, FDR constantly communicated with the people of the country...It's called leadership.

Unfortunately, the Democratic Party doesn't not represent an alternative. The Dems have no clear vision, and still subscribe to statist economic ideals. Want to discredit Keynsian economics? Look no further than Western Europe, whose economic growth is half that of the US over the past 25 years. Sure, it's only a 1.5% difference every year. But compound that over 25 years, and you get a 45% discrepancy in growth. Yet, Democrats continue to wistfully eye France and Germany as economic models, even as they battle double-digit unemployment and a very sluggish economy.

But, to get down to brass tacks, this is a Democracy, not a Autocracy. And if I think the President is running things like the Village Idiot and voice that opinion, that makes me a good American.

220203[/snapback]

No argument. I am not a blind Bush lover either and I agree with most of your comments. My comments were directed at those who bash the Pres. and ignore the hypocrits like Ted Kennedy and Al Gore

[AUJarhead 70]

Real Americans don't run. Rather they face things head on, instead of obtaining deferments (5) or joining the Air National Guard during times distress.

220119[/snapback]

Bottomfeeder, I normally avoid posting to you, but this little remark you made is quite possibly the most offensive thing I've ever seen on this board. I joined the reserves during the first Gulf War, by the time I went to bootcamp, the war was over. But, according to your definitions, I'm not a real American?

Yes, I realize that you were attempting humor by taking a swipe at the President, but to bash him for joining the national guard is to also bash the hundred of thousands of honorable men and women that have joined the guard and the reserves.

Please think before you type, and remove your shoe from your mouth.

Semper Fi.

[LegalEagle 22]

Real Americans don't run. Rather they face things head on, instead of obtaining deferments (5) or joining the Air National Guard during times distress.

220119[/snapback]

Bottomfeeder, I normally avoid posting to you, but this little remark you made is quite possibly the most offensive thing I've ever seen on this board. I joined the reserves during the first Gulf War, by the time I went to bootcamp, the war was over. But, according to your definitions, I'm not a real American?

Yes, I realize that you were attempting humor by taking a swipe at the President, but to bash him for joining the national guard is to also bash the hundred of thousands of honorable men and women that have joined the guard and the reserves.

Please think before you type, and remove your shoe from your mouth.

Semper Fi.

Geez, leave it to me to defend Bottomfeeder!

Clearly Bf was speaking of the practice in the Viet Nam days of the rich and politically connected being given spots in the National Guard to avoid serving their country in VN. There were also certain deferrments that Shure Shot Cheney took to avoid service when he could well have gone if he believed such a conflict was worthy of risking his life. Back then the NG did what it was designed to do - stayed home and guarded this country. If you were in the guard, you didn't go to VN.

He clearly is not speaking of present day guardsmen who unfortunately are called upon to leave their country, their jobs and families and go to the other side of the world to fight in an ill-advised conflict.

For you to act as if you thought he was talking about you or current day soldiers is insincere at best.

If you are going to jump on Bf, please have some logical, justifiable argument so I won't have to come to his defense again. *grin*

220338[/snapback]

[AUJarhead 70]

Legal,

I don't presume to know what Bottomfeeder ever thinks.

And maybe I'm being ultra-sensitive this morning, but those comments really ticked me off. But I can't help but think that there were honorable people who served in the reserves and guard during the Vietnam Conflict.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Clearly Bf was speaking of the practice in the Viet Nam days of the rich and politically connected being given spots in the National Guard to avoid serving their country in VN.  There were also certain deferrments that Shure Shot Cheney took to avoid service when he could well have gone if he believed such a conflict was worthy of risking his life.  Back then the NG did what it was designed to do - stayed home and guarded this country.  If you were in the guard, you didn't go to VN.

220339[/snapback]

Horsecrap! Elements of the National Guard did indeed serve in Vietnam, and almost 100 Guardsmen were killed in that conflict. Kind of blows a hole in your argument there, counselor.

BF's besmirching of the Guard exemplifies the typical leftist sentiment towards service in the reserves, and the military as a whole. They bash President Bush because he flew fighter jets in the TANG, but they hold a pot smoking draft dodger in the highest regard. They chastise Bush for being a reservist, but they glorify John Murtha's service (he was a reservist, too).

Which is it hypocrites? Are Guardsmen patriots or cowards?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Tiger In Spain......looks like you quieted the hypocrits. Thank you!!

And most of all, thanks for your service as a real American.

[Captain Liger 0]

Clearly Bf was speaking of the practice in the Viet Nam days of the rich and politically connected being given spots in the National Guard to avoid serving their country in VN.  There were also certain deferrments that Shure Shot Cheney took to avoid service when he could well have gone if he believed such a conflict was worthy of risking his life.  Back then the NG did what it was designed to do - stayed home and guarded this country.  If you were in the guard, you didn't go to VN.

220339[/snapback]

Horsecrap! Elements of the National Guard did indeed serve in Vietnam, and almost 100 Guardsmen were killed in that conflict. Kind of blows a hole in your argument there, counselor.

BF's besmirching of the Guard exemplifies the typical leftist sentiment towards service in the reserves, and the military as a whole. They bash President Bush because he flew fighter jets in the TANG, but they hold a pot smoking draft dodger in the highest regard. They chastise Bush for being a reservist, but they glorify John Murtha's service (he was a reservist, too).

Which is it hypocrites? Are Guardsmen patriots or cowards?

220342[/snapback]

Just to add, my dad and two of his three brothers served together in the same Alabama national guard unit during Vietnam. The first brother joined in the summer of '65 (before Nam officially kicked off), my dad in '68, and the other brother in '70. Their unit was activated on three different occasions for Vietnam and was stood down every single time just prior to wheels up. They just knew they were going to go Nam and their argument for joining the Guard was that they'd rather fight with guys they'd grown up with and knew all their lives than to fight with a bunch of strangers. Their family was EXTREMELY poor as my grandfather was a sharecropper and worked in a junkyard. They certainly didn't join because they were rich and politically connected and they weren't just "given" a spot to get out of going to Nam.

In fact, the Guard’s seven deaths directly attributed to combat since President George Bush declared war on global terrorism following the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, are the highest since the Vietnam War, when 94 members of the Army and Air Guard were killed in action, Hylton said.

Link

National Archives link on Vietnam casualty statistics. Scroll down to see guard/reserve numbers.

[LegalEagle 22]

Well, I'll accept on blind faith that some Guardsmen served in Viet Nam. Even by your own facts, if only 100 were killed, it stands to reason that very few were put in harms way - compared to regular soldiers.

I know many who joined the Guard to get out of the war. I lived those days. If you don't believe that joining the Guard was a common practice to avoid VN, you're are very misinformed.

[Captain Liger 0]

I know many who joined the Guard to get out of the war.  I lived those days.  If you don't believe that joining the Guard was a common practice to avoid VN, you're are very misinformed.

220377[/snapback]

So which guard unit were you in? Or were you studying law in Great Britain?

[quietfan 233]

Tiger In Spain......looks like you quieted the hypocrits. Thank you!!

220353[/snapback]

Hypocracy cuts both ways.

Certainly there was a possibility that Bush's guard unit could have been called up for service in Vietnam. He also had the option of volunteering for service that would have guaranteed him the chance to fight for his country (an option I also had at the time, yet did not do so.) So I will not call him a coward or a draft dodger.

On the other hand, there was another presidential candidate in the last election who did volunteer for service in Vietnam, was awarded multiple medals while there, and had his service record attacked and ridiculed by many Republicans during the campaign. Where was the righteous indignation over the demeaning of an American serviceman's record when Kerry was running for office?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Tiger In Spain......looks like you quieted the hypocrits. Thank you!!

220353[/snapback]

Hypocracy cuts both ways.

Certainly there was a possibility that Bush's guard unit could have been called up for service in Vietnam. He also had the option of volunteering for service that would have guaranteed him the chance to fight for his country (an option I also had at the time, yet did not do so.) So I will not call him a coward or a draft dodger.

On the other hand, there was another presidential candidate in the last election who did volunteer for service in Vietnam, was awarded multiple medals while there, and had his service record attacked and ridiculed by many Republicans during the campaign. Where was the righteous indignation over the demeaning of an American serviceman's record when Kerry was running for office?

220626[/snapback]

Real heros don't lie!!!! Kerry brought it on himelf for being the attack dog in the beginning. He then flip-flopped so much no one knew what to believe. I give Kerry full credit for his service but to this day I don't know what the full truth is.

But enough. I heard the VP was involved in a hunting accident.

Anyone else hear about it?

I had rather go hunting with Dick Cheney than riding with Ted Kennedy!

Ah yes, old Teddy. Now there is a true hypocrit.

[Tigermike 3,072]

Tiger In Spain......looks like you quieted the hypocrits. Thank you!!

220353[/snapback]

Hypocracy cuts both ways.

Certainly there was a possibility that Bush's guard unit could have been called up for service in Vietnam. He also had the option of volunteering for service that would have guaranteed him the chance to fight for his country (an option I also had at the time, yet did not do so.) So I will not call him a coward or a draft dodger.

On the other hand, there was another presidential candidate in the last election who did volunteer for service in Vietnam, was awarded multiple medals while there, and had his service record attacked and ridiculed by many Republicans during the campaign. Where was the righteous indignation over the demeaning of an American serviceman's record when Kerry was running for office?

220626[/snapback]

Speaking of that particular candidate, he promised to open and disclose his entire service record. He still has not done so. Two years later and he still has not released his entire service file. Why I wonder?

[quietfan 233]

. I give Kerry full credit for his service but to this day I don't know what the full truth is.

As long as you are willing to give him full credit for his service, then I have no issue with you disagreeing with his politics or actions afterward--that's your right. If you "don't know what the full truth is", then I believe you should give every American service man or woman the benefit of the doubt and respect them for volunteering to be there, until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of doubt.

Speaking of that particular candidate, he promised to open and disclose his entire service record.

I think a lot more of Kerry's military record is public knowledge than Bush's. We have a lot of public record on his medals and the official commendations of why they were awarded. There continues to be a cloud of controversy over Bush's Guard service and what, exactly, he was doing while posted in Alabama. At the very least, there is no debate over whether Kerry actually reported for duty, nor any argument that he volunteered for service that he might have been able to avoid.

Best possible case: Bush faithfully completed 100% of his guard requirements and was never absent, and Kerry completed his tour in Vietnam with the distinctions noted in official US military records. I say it's up to the detractors to prove otherwise, and there is no solid proof to the contrary in either case. I believe the case in favor of Kerry has more official documentation in the public record than the case for Bush, however.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

The biggest problem people had with Kerry stemmed from his actions once he returned from Vietnam. He turned on his fellow servicemen in order to start his political career. He met with the enemy in Paris in order to undermine his country in time of war (a crime in which he should be serving life in prison). As a serviceman, what he did upon his return from the battlefield erases what he did over there. To me, he is a modern day Benedict Arnold.

His Purple Hearts I really can't comment on because I wasn't there. But, one has to give a lot of credence to the stories coming from his unit. If all these Swift Boat veterans stories were false, then it seems to me that Kerry would release the documents that proved his side of the story. The fact that he has chosen to keep his records sealed speaks volumes in the court of public opinion.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

. I give Kerry full credit for his service but to this day I don't know what the full truth is.

As long as you are willing to give him full credit for his service, then I have no issue with you disagreeing with his politics or actions afterward--that's your right. If you "don't know what the full truth is", then I believe you should give every American service man or woman the benefit of the doubt and respect them for volunteering to be there, until proven otherwise beyond a shadow of doubt.

Speaking of that particular candidate, he promised to open and disclose his entire service record.

I think a lot more of Kerry's military record is public knowledge than Bush's. We have a lot of public record on his medals and the official commendations of why they were awarded. There continues to be a cloud of controversy over Bush's Guard service and what, exactly, he was doing while posted in Alabama. At the very least, there is no debate over whether Kerry actually reported for duty, nor any argument that he volunteered for service that he might have been able to avoid.

Best possible case: Bush faithfully completed 100% of his guard requirements and was never absent, and Kerry completed his tour in Vietnam with the distinctions noted in official US military records. I say it's up to the detractors to prove otherwise, and there is no solid proof to the contrary in either case. I believe the case in favor of Kerry has more official documentation in the public record than the case for Bush, however.

220679[/snapback]

Like Tiger in Spain said above, it's not so much what Kerry did in service but his actions after he got home. I also have to respect the service of other men and women and a lot of those had some rather harsh things to say about Kerry, i.,e., the Swiftboat vets. So there is a cloud of controversy remaining on Kerry's service also. In any event it's history, and it's not high on my priority list to argue about.

[LegalEagle 22]

I know many who joined the Guard to get out of the war.  I lived those days.  If you don't believe that joining the Guard was a common practice to avoid VN, you're are very misinformed.

220377[/snapback]

So which guard unit were you in? Or were you studying law in Great Britain?

220618[/snapback]

My draft number was "10." I was in school at AU. "They" failed to acknowledge by college deferment by mistake. I was pro war and confused, so I reported to Maxwell Field in Montgomery for my physical. "4F" - they wouldn't let me fight.

Screw you for doubting my willingness to serve.

[vatz22au 142]

I know many who joined the Guard to get out of the war.  I lived those days.  If you don't believe that joining the Guard was a common practice to avoid VN, you're are very misinformed.

220377[/snapback]

So which guard unit were you in? Or were you studying law in Great Britain?

220618[/snapback]

My draft number was "10." I was in school at AU. "They" failed to acknowledge by college deferment by mistake. I was pro war and confused, so I reported to Maxwell Field in Montgomery for my physical. "4F" - they wouldn't let me fight.

Screw you for doubting my willingness to serve.

220710[/snapback]

By any chance do you know a person named Bernard Vatz? My dad happened to be at AU in ROTC around VN...