Alabama = Ole Miss

[AUChizad 0]

Say what you want about Shula...but he's shown marked improvement EVERY year he's been there. Thats the sign of good coaching.

Giving this context, this was BEFORE the 06 season. Was it a lie that we showed improvement every year under Shula up to that point? 4-9, 6-6, 10-2...I think the math speaks for itself.

Based on recent history, Shula has proven to win more and improve every year. None of those, except Spurrier can say that. MAYBE meyer but the talent he had last year, he should have won more than he did. And he shouldnt have struggled against Vandy.

Again: 4-9, 6-6, 10-2

But most of all, he got fired because his teams got WORSE as seasons went on. Especially in 05.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Sorry, I meant 06. Please forgive the typo.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it.

- 26-10-0 over 3 years at UAT

- 1989 Associated Press SEC Coach of the Year

- SEC Championship

- Bowl appearance each year he coached at UAT

He couldn't beat ; that got him the contract offer he could refuse and wound up sending him to Kentucky. The GOB's couldn't take losing to the Tigers and run off a very decent man and a pretty good coach.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it.

- 26-10-0 over 3 years at UAT

- 1989 Associated Press SEC Coach of the Year

- SEC Championship

- Bowl appearance each year he coached at UAT

He couldn't beat ; that got him the contract offer he could refuse and wound up sending him to Kentucky. The GOB's couldn't take losing to the Tigers and run off a very decent man and a pretty good coach.

If he was that good of a coach, he would still be coaching.

[GalensGhost 0]

No one is going to average winning 10 games a season. Bear didnt even do that.

YOU STOP THAT DAYUM LYIN' RIGHT THIS MINUTE!! NEXT THING YOU GONNA TELL ME IS THAT BAHR LOST TO AUBURN ONE TIME!! HE SHORE AS HELL DID NOT!!! ALABAMMA DIDN'T LOST NOT ONE SINGLE GAME SO LONG AS HE WAS THERE!! NOT ONE.

[GalensGhost 0]

Again: 4-9, 6-6, 10-2

BG this is where we dont get it. As you said, CMS was improving every year. He was "recruiting lights out" as you told me in an IM a while back. Now the season records are improving, recruiting is going forward, all looks well. Then, CMS has one rough schedule and one not so great year and he is gone. Just like Dubose. Almost like Fran, and much like Curry. All four Bama coaches had 10 win seasons and then left or were run off. Doesnt this seem funny to anyone but me?

Seems to me that a 10 win season is the last thing a Bama HC would want. The next time he doesnt win 10, "Throw the bum out."

No one is going to average winning 10 games a season. Bear didnt even do that.

I'm not saying he was a great coach. I'm simply trying to provide context to my quotes, instead of you guys using hindsight AGAINST me. At the time, when I made the quotes, it was true. I said our record improved every year...and Chizad pulled the quote to try and make fun of me about it. But it was true. We improved our record every year.

He got fired, because that improvement wasn't because of good coaching. It was because the breaks we didnt get in the early years, we got in 05. He got fired because he lost complete control and respect of his players. He got fired because he couldn't beat Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Tennessee...except for a couple of ugly wins. But most of all, he got fired because his teams got WORSE as seasons went on. Especially in 06.

You KNOW he needed to be fired. You are just repeating the ESPN party line because you think it makes alabama look bad. You think it makes us look like we are impatient. Or have unrealistic expectations. But I don't think there's an AU fan on the planet who really thinks he should have been retained. Many WANTED him retained, and I think that's a dead giveaway that it was time for him to be shown the door.

And for the record, Fran was not run off. We did everything we could to keep him. And Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it. Dubose had the same problem Shula did. He was a friend to the players, didnt discipline them, and the weightroom was OPTIONAL. If you HONESTLY think we should have kept Shula or Dubose, you are lying to yourself. The only coach that MAYBE should have been given another chance was curry. But if we are going to use hindsight, lets look at where he's coaching today...oh that's right.

Lord, I hate getting into this fray... but BG I have to say that you sound JUST LIKE ME in your post-firing evaluation of Shula. The thing is, I was telling you EXACTLY those same things prior to the 2006 season. And you were blasting me for it.

I do like being right.

So far I've been 100% right about every one of your coaches from Perkins on down. Each has performed exactly as I predicted. And here's what I'm telling you about your current one:

Right now it's the honeymoon phase. You're in love. You think it's cute that he leaves the top off the toothpaste. That he belches loudly after dinner. That he farts and pulls your head under the covers. You giggle when he pours a pitcher of cold water into your shower. You tease him about the little paunch he's starting to get and don't begrudge him a second or third piece of cake. You love him so much you pick up his turd-stained drawers out of the bathroom floor where he dropped them.

He loves you too at the moment. He'll abide your clinginess. He doesn't mind when you'd rather him spend time at home than out with the boys. Because it bothers you, he'll step out on the deck to smoke his cigars instead of stinking up the house. He'll help you with the little housework and cook with you in the kitchen while you make small talk. Your ass will never be too fat. He likes a little meat on your bones and will bring you chocolates.

Honeymoons don't last. Give it a year or two. At that point he'll be the lard ass slob who has no manners and is so lazy he won't even pick up after himself. You'll be the nagging cow who won't let him have any fun. Why don't you go on a diet instead of buying bigger pants?

Saban will have some success. But it won't be the type of success that the average bama fan yearns for. As a result, the relationship between Saban, his bosses and the fans will be one beset with strife. Your "brilliant" administration all but guaranteed that by agreeing to his outrageous salary. Because he's being paid so much, fans won't accept the average Saban mark. He is not going to be able to quickly replicate his LSU success at Alabama. Odds are he won't be able to do that at all. Bama fans were allegedly patient to a fault with Shula, but had no qualms about gutting him like a fish after his fourth season. Because of their expectations with Saban, they won't wait nearly that long before breaking out the knives.

His demeanor and attitude has deteriorated since LSU. He was a d***head there and has morphed into a Napoleonic ass now. He will bristle at the questions that will be directed at him, he'll chafe under the expectations and he'll be looking for an out within three seasons. And when that happens it's over for you guys. The realization will FINALLY set in that you're never going to be able to replicate the success enjoyed back in the 70s and despair will set in. You're down to your last play. If you don't flip an ace this time, you're going to be out. Unfortunately you've got a joker instead.

[Tiger in Spain 0]

Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it.

- 26-10-0 over 3 years at UAT

- 1989 Associated Press SEC Coach of the Year

- SEC Championship

- Bowl appearance each year he coached at UAT

He couldn't beat ; that got him the contract offer he could refuse and wound up sending him to Kentucky. The GOB's couldn't take losing to the Tigers and run off a very decent man and a pretty good coach.

If he was that good of a coach, he would still be coaching.

Link

He couldn't beat and that got him run off and Joab Thomas fired.

[WarTiger 3,916]

Again: 4-9, 6-6, 10-2

BG this is where we dont get it. As you said, CMS was improving every year. He was "recruiting lights out" as you told me in an IM a while back. Now the season records are improving, recruiting is going forward, all looks well. Then, CMS has one rough schedule and one not so great year and he is gone. Just like Dubose. Almost like Fran, and much like Curry. All four Bama coaches had 10 win seasons and then left or were run off. Doesnt this seem funny to anyone but me?

Seems to me that a 10 win season is the last thing a Bama HC would want. The next time he doesnt win 10, "Throw the bum out."

No one is going to average winning 10 games a season. Bear didnt even do that.

I'm not saying he was a great coach. I'm simply trying to provide context to my quotes, instead of you guys using hindsight AGAINST me. At the time, when I made the quotes, it was true. I said our record improved every year...and Chizad pulled the quote to try and make fun of me about it. But it was true. We improved our record every year.

He got fired, because that improvement wasn't because of good coaching. It was because the breaks we didnt get in the early years, we got in 05. He got fired because he lost complete control and respect of his players. He got fired because he couldn't beat Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Tennessee...except for a couple of ugly wins. But most of all, he got fired because his teams got WORSE as seasons went on. Especially in 06.

You KNOW he needed to be fired. You are just repeating the ESPN party line because you think it makes alabama look bad. You think it makes us look like we are impatient. Or have unrealistic expectations. But I don't think there's an AU fan on the planet who really thinks he should have been retained. Many WANTED him retained, and I think that's a dead giveaway that it was time for him to be shown the door.

And for the record, Fran was not run off. We did everything we could to keep him. And Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it. Dubose had the same problem Shula did. He was a friend to the players, didnt discipline them, and the weightroom was OPTIONAL. If you HONESTLY think we should have kept Shula or Dubose, you are lying to yourself. The only coach that MAYBE should have been given another chance was curry. But if we are going to use hindsight, lets look at where he's coaching today...oh that's right.

Lord, I hate getting into this fray... but BG I have to say that you sound JUST LIKE ME in your post-firing evaluation of Shula. The thing is, I was telling you EXACTLY those same things prior to the 2006 season. And you were blasting me for it.

I do like being right.

So far I've been 100% right about every one of your coaches from Perkins on down. Each has performed exactly as I predicted. And here's what I'm telling you about your current one:

Right now it's the honeymoon phase. You're in love. You think it's cute that he leaves the top off the toothpaste. That he belches loudly after dinner. That he farts and pulls your head under the covers. You giggle when he pours a pitcher of cold water into your shower. You tease him about the little paunch he's starting to get and don't begrudge him a second or third piece of cake. You love him so much you pick up his turd-stained drawers out of the bathroom floor where he dropped them.

He loves you too at the moment. He'll abide your clinginess. He doesn't mind when you'd rather him spend time at home than out with the boys. Because it bothers you, he'll step out on the deck to smoke his cigars instead of stinking up the house. He'll help you with the little housework and cook with you in the kitchen while you make small talk. Your ass will never be too fat. He likes a little meat on your bones and will bring you chocolates.

Honeymoons don't last. Give it a year or two. At that point he'll be the lard ass slob who has no manners and is so lazy he won't even pick up after himself. You'll be the nagging cow who won't let him have any fun. Why don't you go on a diet instead of buying bigger pants?

Saban will have some success. But it won't be the type of success that the average bama fan yearns for. As a result, the relationship between Saban, his bosses and the fans will be one beset with strife. Your "brilliant" administration all but guaranteed that by agreeing to his outrageous salary. Because he's being paid so much, fans won't accept the average Saban mark. He is not going to be able to quickly replicate his LSU success at Alabama. Odds are he won't be able to do that at all. Bama fans were allegedly patient to a fault with Shula, but had no qualms about gutting him like a fish after his fourth season. Because of their expectations with Saban, they won't wait nearly that long before breaking out the knives on Saban.

His demeanor and attitude has deteriorated since LSU. He was a d***head there and has morphed into a Napoleonic ass now. He will bristle at the questions that will be directed at him, he'll chafe under the expectations and he'll be looking for an out within three seasons. And when that happens it's over for you guys. The realization will FINALLY set in that you're never going to be able to replicate the success enjoyed back in the 70s and despair will set in. Your down to your last play. If you don't flip an ace this time, you're going to be out. Unfortunately you've got a joker instead.

Damn, that's good. so true, so true.

[The Prowler 1]

Again: 4-9, 6-6, 10-2

BG this is where we dont get it. As you said, CMS was improving every year. He was "recruiting lights out" as you told me in an IM a while back. Now the season records are improving, recruiting is going forward, all looks well. Then, CMS has one rough schedule and one not so great year and he is gone. Just like Dubose. Almost like Fran, and much like Curry. All four Bama coaches had 10 win seasons and then left or were run off. Doesnt this seem funny to anyone but me?

Seems to me that a 10 win season is the last thing a Bama HC would want. The next time he doesnt win 10, "Throw the bum out."

No one is going to average winning 10 games a season. Bear didnt even do that.

I'm not saying he was a great coach. I'm simply trying to provide context to my quotes, instead of you guys using hindsight AGAINST me. At the time, when I made the quotes, it was true. I said our record improved every year...and Chizad pulled the quote to try and make fun of me about it. But it was true. We improved our record every year.

He got fired, because that improvement wasn't because of good coaching. It was because the breaks we didnt get in the early years, we got in 05. He got fired because he lost complete control and respect of his players. He got fired because he couldn't beat Auburn, LSU, Arkansas, Tennessee...except for a couple of ugly wins. But most of all, he got fired because his teams got WORSE as seasons went on. Especially in 06.

You KNOW he needed to be fired. You are just repeating the ESPN party line because you think it makes alabama look bad. You think it makes us look like we are impatient. Or have unrealistic expectations. But I don't think there's an AU fan on the planet who really thinks he should have been retained. Many WANTED him retained, and I think that's a dead giveaway that it was time for him to be shown the door.

And for the record, Fran was not run off. We did everything we could to keep him. And Curry was not a winner. You know it. I know it. Dubose had the same problem Shula did. He was a friend to the players, didnt discipline them, and the weightroom was OPTIONAL. If you HONESTLY think we should have kept Shula or Dubose, you are lying to yourself. The only coach that MAYBE should have been given another chance was curry. But if we are going to use hindsight, lets look at where he's coaching today...oh that's right.

Lord, I hate getting into this fray... but BG I have to say that you sound JUST LIKE ME in your post-firing evaluation of Shula. The thing is, I was telling you EXACTLY those same things prior to the 2006 season. And you were blasting me for it.

I do like being right.

So far I've been 100% right about every one of your coaches from Perkins on down. Each has performed exactly as I predicted. And here's what I'm telling you about your current one:

Right now it's the honeymoon phase. You're in love. You think it's cute that he leaves the top off the toothpaste. That he belches loudly after dinner. That he farts and pulls your head under the covers. You giggle when he pours a pitcher of cold water into your shower. You tease him about the little paunch he's starting to get and don't begrudge him a second or third piece of cake. You love him so much you pick up his turd-stained drawers out of the bathroom floor where he dropped them.

He loves you too at the moment. He'll abide your clinginess. He doesn't mind when you'd rather him spend time at home than out with the boys. Because it bothers you, he'll step out on the deck to smoke his cigars instead of stinking up the house. He'll help you with the little housework and cook with you in the kitchen while you make small talk. Your ass will never be too fat. He likes a little meat on your bones and will bring you chocolates.

Honeymoons don't last. Give it a year or two. At that point he'll be the lard ass slob who has no manners and is so lazy he won't even pick up after himself. You'll be the nagging cow who won't let him have any fun. Why don't you go on a diet instead of buying bigger pants?

Saban will have some success. But it won't be the type of success that the average bama fan yearns for. As a result, the relationship between Saban, his bosses and the fans will be one beset with strife. Your "brilliant" administration all but guaranteed that by agreeing to his outrageous salary. Because he's being paid so much, fans won't accept the average Saban mark. He is not going to be able to quickly replicate his LSU success at Alabama. Odds are he won't be able to do that at all. Bama fans were allegedly patient to a fault with Shula, but had no qualms about gutting him like a fish after his fourth season. Because of their expectations with Saban, they won't wait nearly that long before breaking out the knives on Saban.

His demeanor and attitude has deteriorated since LSU. He was a d***head there and has morphed into a Napoleonic ass now. He will bristle at the questions that will be directed at him, he'll chafe under the expectations and he'll be looking for an out within three seasons. And when that happens it's over for you guys. The realization will FINALLY set in that you're never going to be able to replicate the success enjoyed back in the 70s and despair will set in. Your down to your last play. If you don't flip an ace this time, you're going to be out. Unfortunately you've got a joker instead.

Dang It... I was gonna say that, except without all the words. That's exactly what I've been saying to my bammer friends at work, since the hire and since I first saw that saban smile. Yall know the one I'm talking about, the Car Salesman/Satan/Snake in the grass/I took the job ONLY for the Money/What the HELL did I get myself into smile.

[DKW 86 7,440]

WTG G2, best writing you have done in six months.

I told everyone here that the uat folks need to throw away the 2003 season. It was hopeless. If you do, Shula got exactly three years, same as Curry. Saban is not even a Bama guy. When he loses, the tide will shift quickly and furiously. bama folks are not known for patience, and neither is Saban.

Just like PT said, and G2 described, this is a marriage made in hell. Hell just hasnt been delivered to the front door yet. But always remember, it is on the way.

[BamaGrad03 0]

So David, you are going to sit here and tell me that we SHOULD have kept Shula? Not based on you WANTING us to keep him...but based on merit.

You CAN'T throw out the first season. Because it was a season. Hell why not throw out the 2nd and 4th? Then he's averaging 10 wins a year.

[WinCrimson 61]

For the life of me, I don't understand why 'Bama fans deserve to be blasted for wanting the best for our program.

How many of us think that we can ever be as dominant as we were in the 60's and 70's? We went 193-62 over that time span for a nationally leading 85% winning percentage. Texas was a distant second with 78%. We went 16-4 against Auburn, 14-5 against Tennessee, and 14-2 against LSU. Won 11 conference titles and 6 national titles. Unbelievable! Those are records that will never be touched. Not by today's Florida, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, and yes, Alabama. Vanderbilt has an equal chance of duplicating what UA acomplished over those two decades as anybody. Just won't happen.

With that said, what's wrong with refusing to settle with mediocrity? I'm sure you guys would love it for us to sit around and say, "Well, it's just their time in the sun." You didn't do it when Barfield. AU surrounded itself good, hard working people who knew what it took to compete - Pat Dye and David Housel are the first to come to mind. Even when Bryant was beating you year after year after year, you kept coming back. You kept getting back up off the turf and it paid off in the 80's, with the playing field now being leveled.

Why bash us for refusing to lose to Auburn and Tennessee every year? We scrapped our second rate facilities for the nicest in the league. Sent our beginner of a coach packing. Expanded our stadium. Now, brought in what is undeniably a great football coach. Does Saban's hire equal an assured national title? Laughable. Does he give us a CHANCE? Yes. Under Shula, we were never going to be consistently in the hunt - even for the SEC West. It was definitely time for him to go. We owe Sly one...

I wouldn't want to be a fan of a school who didn't have a desire to be successful. Would you?

[DKW 86 7,440]

Because being on probation, especially one like the Tide got hammered with is exceedingly rare. It takes time to come back from that much damage. 2003, Shula came in late, no spring to get ready for. Recruiting in a mess, etc. He had to put a staff together when almost everyone else was employed, not in the hiring line at the College Coaches Convention.

2003 was a throw away. After that, 6-6 wasnt a bad season. The 10-2 was a very good season considering. Last year was a very bad schedule that we are going through this season. Keep changing coaches and you will never have stability and never have any consistency. Just track the Bama records over the last ten years.

96 10-3 CGS

97 4-7 CMD

98 7-5

99 10-3

00 3-8

01 7-5 CDF

02 10-3

03 4-9 CMS

04 6-6

05 10-2

06 6-7

That looks pretty amazingly consistent. A ten win season followed by two very mediocre ones. That is four coaches in that span of eleven years.

Before that Stallings was doing very well and yet he was basically run off by the Administration after losing to MSU in 1996. But he did establish some consistency with his staff and contacts with hs coaches.

90 7-5

91 11-1

92 13-0

93 1-12 (9-3-1 before langham and probation)

94 12-1

95 8-3

96 10-3

Then prior to Stallings..

83 8-4 Perkins

84 5-6

85 9-2-1

86 10-3

87 7-5 Curry

88 9-3

89 10-2

That same pattern re-emerges, 2 bad season followed by a 10 win season again changing coaches will do that to you.

I ask the bama guys here, seriously, in 2005, you guys thought CMS had arrived. He is tossed in 2006. How long will CNS be around IF he loses to CTT 3 in a row?

[GalensGhost 0]

Now, brought in what is undeniably a great football coach.

Undeniable. That's a big word. Like gymnasium. And you could insert gymnasium in place of undeniably in the sentence above and have one that is just as valid.

I don't think Saban is a "great" football coach by any stretch of the imagation. He was fair to middling at Michigan State, had one stellar season at LSU and stunk like a roadkill skunk in the NFL. You ask me, the jury's still WAAAAAY out on him. Acting like a pompous ass doesn't equate to greatness.

[townhallsavoy 2]

For the life of me, I don't understand why 'Bama fans deserve to be blasted for wanting the best for our program.

How many of us think that we can ever be as dominant as we were in the 60's and 70's? We went 193-62 over that time span for a nationally leading 85% winning percentage. Texas was a distant second with 78%. We went 16-4 against Auburn, 14-5 against Tennessee, and 14-2 against LSU. Won 11 conference titles and 6 national titles. Unbelievable! Those are records that will never be touched. Not by today's Florida, Auburn, LSU, Georgia, and yes, Alabama. Vanderbilt has an equal chance of duplicating what UA acomplished over those two decades as anybody. Just won't happen.

With that said, what's wrong with refusing to settle with mediocrity? I'm sure you guys would love it for us to sit around and say, "Well, it's just their time in the sun." You didn't do it when Barfield. AU surrounded itself good, hard working people who knew what it took to compete - Pat Dye and David Housel are the first to come to mind. Even when Bryant was beating you year after year after year, you kept coming back. You kept getting back up off the turf and it paid off in the 80's, with the playing field now being leveled.

Why bash us for refusing to lose to Auburn and Tennessee every year? We scrapped our second rate facilities for the nicest in the league. Sent our beginner of a coach packing. Expanded our stadium. Now, brought in what is undeniably a great football coach. Does Saban's hire equal an assured national title? Laughable. Does he give us a CHANCE? Yes. Under Shula, we were never going to be consistently in the hunt - even for the SEC West. It was definitely time for him to go. We owe Sly one...

I wouldn't want to be a fan of a school who didn't have a desire to be successful. Would you?

Jiminy Crickets, I guess we've been too hard on you. Can you forgive us?

For the life of me, I can't figure out how you people don't realize our beef with you and your program. You don't actually want the best for your program; you think your program is automatically deserving of being the best. Hence the paragraph detailing your pre-NCAA regulated success in the 60s and 70s. You DO sit around and say, "Well it's just their time in the sun...." Except that you add, "...because we've been on probation" behind it. We bash you because every freaking offseason, we listen to mindless banter about how Bama is back. The old days are back. We at least have a chance. First the ten win season, then the hiring of Saban. Please please please tell me why I shouldn't blast the arrogance Bama fans piss out of their bodies every day? So many Bama fans are "OK" with the idea of a building season next year. But what about the next? Saban will get his first full slew of recruits next year. So in two seasons, with Saban starting numerous freshmen, he's going to have Alabama competing for the SEC West? Is he a football god? At the minimum, it's going to take Nick Saban three years to have Alabama competing for the SEC West, IF he gets a couple of breaks. Look at Steve Spurrier at South Carolina. He's in his third season and people are still saying "maybe next year." You may be an exception, Wincrimson. But many of your sidekicks think that the success of your past gives you the RIGHT to be successful today. You honestly have NO reason to be excited about Nick Saban or the future of the program, other than the fact that you've experienced victory before, some 15 years ago. The last 15 years have been painful, save two or three ten win seasons that only led to a new era of heartbreak.

[BamaGrad03 0]

David, simple yes or no. Do you think Shula was the man for the job. And if the roles were reversed, would you feel comfortable giving him another year at Auburn?

What did Shula show in his 4 years that makes him deserving of another chance?

I'll answer that question. He did nothing. You want to continue to bring up this crap because you heard it on ESPN and you think it makes Alabama fans and administration look bad. But you are more at fault. Because you know more about the situation than the national media.

You KNOW he didn't make his players lift weights. You KNOW he was given an opportunity after the Iron Bowl this year to adjust his staff...he refused. You KNOW that if CTT wouldn't have made any changes in his first 4 years at Auburn, he wouldn't be there today. You KNOW none of the players respected Shula. You KNOW Shula had a discipline problem.

You can't make an argument FOR Shula. You WANT to, because you WANT Alabama fans to look bad. Not because you think Shula should still be coaching at UA.

[DKW 86 7,440]

David, simple yes or no. Do you think Shula was the man for the job. And if the roles were reversed, would you feel comfortable giving him another year at Auburn?

What did Shula show in his 4 years that makes him deserving of another chance?

I'll answer that question. He did nothing. You want to continue to bring up this crap because you heard it on ESPN and you think it makes Alabama fans and administration look bad. But you are more at fault. Because you know more about the situation than the national media.

You KNOW he didn't make his players lift weights. You KNOW he was given an opportunity after the Iron Bowl this year to adjust his staff...he refused. You KNOW that if CTT wouldn't have made any changes in his first 4 years at Auburn, he wouldn't be there today. You KNOW none of the players respected Shula. You KNOW Shula had a discipline problem.

You can't make an argument FOR Shula. You WANT to, because you WANT Alabama fans to look bad. Not because you think Shula should still be coaching at UA.

What I saw in him was the same things you guys saw in him lbefore last season. I guy that came into a horrible situation and could win 10 games. Do I think he was a great coach, not really. I think you turned down better coaches to get him.

[BamaGrad03 0]

What I saw in him was the same things you guys saw in him lbefore last season. I guy that came into a horrible situation and could win 10 games. Do I think he was a great coach, not really. I think you turned down better coaches to get him.

Still didn't answer the question.

[TigerHeat 9]

For the life of me, I don't understand why 'Bama fans deserve to be blasted for wanting the best for our program.

Why bash us for refusing to lose to Auburn and Tennessee every year?

I think you misunderestimate what the word "refusing" means....you guys have pretty consistently rolled over for us for 5 in a row now.

[townhallsavoy 2]

You KNOW that if CTT wouldn't have made any changes in his first 4 years at Auburn, he wouldn't be there today.

What changes? His coaching staff has been the same since he got except for a few that got promotions, which led to a new hire. Five of his coaches have been there with him since day one.

[DKW 86 7,440]

What I saw in him was the same things you guys saw in him lbefore last season. I guy that came into a horrible situation and could win 10 games. Do I think he was a great coach, not really. I think you turned down better coaches to get him.

Still didn't answer the question.

He was THE man for the job AT THE TIME. I think like I really think you and a few others think, that he was growing into it, just not fast enough to suit the impatient crowd. Was he the man for Alabama longterm after probation was over? Probably not, he still has some OJT to do. But I do respect him for coming in and answering the call WHEN he did. I personally would have given him what I would call 4 GOOD years to make his case. I just cant hold 2003 against him, he had no real chance. Could they have done better? No doubt, but even in 2003 he played Oklahoma very tough.

So yes, at the time he was maybe one of only 2-3 choices, and no, I dont think he was the longterm answer.

[WinCrimson 61]

So we made the right move by firing him? Yay or nay?

[BamaGrad03 0]

You KNOW that if CTT wouldn't have made any changes in his first 4 years at Auburn, he wouldn't be there today.

What changes? His coaching staff has been the same since he got except for a few that got promotions, which led to a new hire. Five of his coaches have been there with him since day one.

So you think if Hugh Nall remained the OC instead of Al Borges being brought in...CTT would still be there?

He was THE man for the job AT THE TIME. I think like I really think you and a few others think, that he was growing into it, just not fast enough to suit the impatient crowd. Was he the man for Alabama longterm after probation was over? Probably not, he still has some OJT to do. But I do respect him for coming in and answering the call WHEN he did. I personally would have given him what I would call 4 GOOD years to make his case. I just cant hold 2003 against him, he had no real chance. Could they have done better? No doubt, but even in 2003 he played Oklahoma very tough.

So yes, at the time he was maybe one of only 2-3 choices, and no, I dont think he was the longterm answer.

At the time, no I don't think he was a bad hire. But Mike Shula peaked in 05. You can't honestly say he was growing into it since he was making the same mistakes in year 4 that he did in year 1. And we aren't an impatient crowd. Please make a case for Mike Shula, and the teams he coached...BESIDES the argument that 4 years wasn't enough.

Here's the reasons we fired him:

0-18 when trailing in the 4th quarter

Combined 0-8 against Auburn and LSU

1-3 against UT

1-3 against Arkansas

Refused to discipline players

Players had outwardly made note that they didn't respect him as a coach

Teams got worse as the game went on

Teams got CONSISTENTLY worse as the season went on

Played favorites in terms of playing players (see Ken Darby and Chris Capps)

Lost to MSU. Barely beat Duke, Vandy, and Ole Miss

Refused to make weightlifting mandatory

And bottom line, he was given the opportunity to make changes to his staff after 4 years and an overall 26-25 record...and he flat out refused. EVen though his offense was an embarassment, and his oline was the worst I've ever seen, he refused to make changes. Let's not forget that Bob Connely (Oline coach) wasn't even HIS guy. He was a holdover from the coaches Mike Price hired. Mike Shula was so determined to hang on to playcalling control, that he wouldn't fire the only O Cord in the country who would allow Mike to run the show.

You give a guy "another year" when they are making progress. Not when they refuse to change the formual that isn't working. Not when in the 4th season of 4 and the players are the LEAST motivated, the least disciplined both on and off the field, and are constantly showing signs of getting WORSE not better.

You give a guy another year when his players fight tooth and nail to get the job done. When they are working their tails off...when they CARE about losing. Not when guys are out at the bars until 4 AM right after they just got it handed to them on the football field.

But you don't care about all that David. You care about twisting the scenario into whatever makes Alabama fans look most "impatient" or whatever. You want so bad for the delusion spread by ESPN about Alabama fans and administrators to be reality. You want so bad for your "Bama fans expect NC's every year" comments to be true. You want it both ways. You wanted to rip the guy a new one for 4 years while he was at Bama. And the SECOND he's gone, he's a martyr, he's a working class hero for the people.

I don't think there's an Auburn fan alive who WANTED us to fire Shula. And that, is the most telling thing of all.

[AUChizad 0]

You KNOW that if CTT wouldn't have made any changes in his first 4 years at Auburn, he wouldn't be there today.

What changes? His coaching staff has been the same since he got except for a few that got promotions, which led to a new hire. Five of his coaches have been there with him since day one.

So you think if Hugh Nall remained the OC instead of Al Borges being brought in...CTT would still be there?

He was THE man for the job AT THE TIME. I think like I really think you and a few others think, that he was growing into it, just not fast enough to suit the impatient crowd. Was he the man for Alabama longterm after probation was over? Probably not, he still has some OJT to do. But I do respect him for coming in and answering the call WHEN he did. I personally would have given him what I would call 4 GOOD years to make his case. I just cant hold 2003 against him, he had no real chance. Could they have done better? No doubt, but even in 2003 he played Oklahoma very tough.

So yes, at the time he was maybe one of only 2-3 choices, and no, I dont think he was the longterm answer.

At the time, no I don't think he was a bad hire. But Mike Shula peaked in 05. You can't honestly say he was growing into it since he was making the same mistakes in year 4 that he did in year 1. And we aren't an impatient crowd. Please make a case for Mike Shula, and the teams he coached...BESIDES the argument that 4 years wasn't enough.

Here's the reasons we fired him:

0-18 when trailing in the 4th quarter

Combined 0-8 against Auburn and LSU

1-3 against UT

1-3 against Arkansas

Refused to discipline players

Players had outwardly made note that they didn't respect him as a coach

Teams got worse as the game went on

Teams got CONSISTENTLY worse as the season went on

Played favorites in terms of playing players (see Ken Darby and Chris Capps)

Lost to MSU. Barely beat Duke, Vandy, and Ole Miss

Refused to make weightlifting mandatory

And bottom line, he was given the opportunity to make changes to his staff after 4 years and an overall 26-25 record...and he flat out refused. EVen though his offense was an embarassment, and his oline was the worst I've ever seen, he refused to make changes. Let's not forget that Bob Connely (Oline coach) wasn't even HIS guy. He was a holdover from the coaches Mike Price hired. Mike Shula was so determined to hang on to playcalling control, that he wouldn't fire the only O Cord in the country who would allow Mike to run the show.

You give a guy "another year" when they are making progress. Not when they refuse to change the formual that isn't working. Not when in the 4th season of 4 and the players are the LEAST motivated, the least disciplined both on and off the field, and are constantly showing signs of getting WORSE not better.

You give a guy another year when his players fight tooth and nail to get the job done. When they are working their tails off...when they CARE about losing. Not when guys are out at the bars until 4 AM right after they just got it handed to them on the football field.

But you don't care about all that David. You care about twisting the scenario into whatever makes Alabama fans look most "impatient" or whatever. You want so bad for the delusion spread by ESPN about Alabama fans and administrators to be reality. You want so bad for your "Bama fans expect NC's every year" comments to be true. You want it both ways. You wanted to rip the guy a new one for 4 years while he was at Bama. And the SECOND he's gone, he's a martyr, he's a working class hero for the people.

I don't think there's an Auburn fan alive who WANTED us to fire Shula. And that, is the most telling thing of all.

Ok, I've tried only refuting your posts with your OWN posts, but it seems you're too dense to see that everything you said in this last post is in exact contradiction to everything you've ever said prior to Shula's firing. Everyone else knows it but you. When you literally argued with yourself post by post a few posts back, the two posts you were most confused with their relevance were in fact the two that were MOST on the topic of your claims that Shula was a stellar recruiter. Now since he's been fired and the Alabama party line is to blame him for all your woes, he never was worth a flip as a recruiter. Or now that you've backpedaled, he was just "ok."

So now according to your very last post he was a bum that had long outstayed his welcome. Funny, you didn't think so TWO DAYS before the Iron Bowl last year in which you received the thumb. According to you he was hands down better than Tuberville.

Better head coach

No. Better assistants...yes (except D cord).

As for keepmikeshula.com, etc.... Please don't throw us in the briar patch, Br'er Fox. Please don't get rid of your head coach thus causing the laugh-riot level instability of having six head coaches in 15 years.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Ok, I've tried only refuting your posts with your OWN posts, but it seems you're too dense to see that everything you said in this last post is in exact contradiction to everything you've ever said prior to Shula's firing. Everyone else knows it but you. When you literally argued with yourself post by post a few posts back, the two posts you were most confused with their relevance were in fact the two that were MOST on the topic of your claims that Shula was a stellar recruiter. Now since he's been fired and the Alabama party line is to blame him for all your woes, he never was worth a flip as a recruiter. Or now that you've backpedaled, he was just "ok."

So now according to your very last post he was a bum that had long outstayed his welcome. Funny, you didn't think so TWO DAYS before the Iron Bowl last year in which you received the thumb. According to you he was hands down better than Tuberville.

I've done nothing but add context to my quotes. You tried to dig up stuff I typed two years ago and apply it to the situation today. That's called dirty pool.

Why do you guys keep trying to play the recruiting card? Not one time...let me repeat just incase you missed it...NOT ONE TIME did I say Shula deserved to be fired because of his recruiting. Here again is a case where you guys want to put words in Alabama fans' mouths to satisfy YOUR need for us to fit the crazy impatient mold that ESPN has created.

Also, incase you missed it, here's the reasons why I said he was fired:

0-18 when trailing in the 4th quarter

Combined 0-8 against Auburn and LSU

1-3 against UT

1-3 against Arkansas

Refused to discipline players

Players had outwardly made note that they didn't respect him as a coach

Teams got worse as the game went on

Teams got CONSISTENTLY worse as the season went on

Played favorites in terms of playing players (see Ken Darby and Chris Capps)

Lost to MSU. Barely beat Duke, Vandy, and Ole Miss

Refused to make weightlifting mandatory

And bottom line, he was given the opportunity to make changes to his staff after 4 years and an overall 26-25 record...and he flat out refused. EVen though his offense was an embarassment, and his oline was the worst I've ever seen, he refused to make changes. Let's not forget that Bob Connely (Oline coach) wasn't even HIS guy. He was a holdover from the coaches Mike Price hired. Mike Shula was so determined to hang on to playcalling control, that he wouldn't fire the only O Cord in the country who would allow Mike to run the show.

Where in there do I talk about recruiting? Where? I've said in countless threads that Shula recruited offense very well, and struggled with the LB and DL positions. I said it 2 years ago, and I'm saying it now. And it still holds.

As far as you digging up my old posts and calling me dense, I'm still laughing. After I defended my positions you haven't had much to say. I know you were so hoping that the time you spent digging that stuff up was going to be a great revelation. And I do get a chuckle in the face of your futility.

And as far as Shula's firing is concerned, I wish someone would show me where I'm wrong. Go through my list and make an argument for keeping Shula. I have a LAUNDRY list of reasons why his utility had run out. And why it was time for him to go. All you guys have is the WANT for us to be these deranged and crazy rabid impatient fans. And a bunch of hyperbole.

Bottom line, until last year, Shula's teams were improving. I defended Shula until the end of the season came around and his players didn't care that they lost to MSU. Many of my friends played football under Mike Dubose, and the resemblance in demeanor was striking. Dubose needed to go, and so did Shula. Hell we did the RIGHT thing in firing Mike Price...and you guys STILL use it against us. There's no winning with you all. If an Alabama fan says the sky is blue, you will say it is green, regardless of evidence to the contrary.