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WDE_OxPx_2010

Looking ahead to 2018 RBs

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1 minute ago, NorthGATiger said:

Swift played in 13 games

Kam's stats.  This is the guy that should be catching screen passes. 5 receptions in 2 years.

  Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Year School Conf Class Pos G Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
*2016 Auburn SEC FR RB 6 44 320 7.3 3 2 52 26.0 0 46 372 8.1 3
2017 Auburn SEC SO RB 10 68 429 6.3 2 3 56 18.7 1 71 485 6.8 3
Career Auburn         112 749 6.7 5 5 108 21.6 1 117 857 7.3 6

 

 
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Just now, NorthGATiger said:

Swift played in 13 games

He did. Nobody can argue with a third string guy getting 88 total plays. That is generally not only an indicator of high success of running the ball, but at winning as well. 

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This is what I think is more interesting.

Georgia's run distribution this season:

  Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Rk Player Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
1 Nick Chubb 191 1175 6.2 13 3 31 10.3 0 194 1206 6.2 13
2 Sony Michel 131 948 7.2 13 5 55 11.0 0 136 1003 7.4 13
3 D'Andre Swift 73 597 8.2 3 15 146 9.7 1 88 743 8.4 4
4 Brian Herrien 61 265 4.3 1 2 1 0.5 0 63 266 4.2 1
5 Elijah Holyfield 50 293 5.9 2 1 4 4.0 0 51 297 5.8 2
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47 minutes ago, bigbird said:

To me, KMart is by far the most electric back we have.

Henceforth I shall think of KMart as AU's own Tesla Z (for Zoom!). ;) 

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Yep hoping gus can step up his rb rotation next year. I know part of the reason is bc he wants to go fast so no subs. But we subbed a decent amount middrive this year, wouldve liked to have seen a rb go in to spell KJ. 

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It’s not only subbing during a drive but subbing to began a drive.   If pettway had been healthy, the rotation should have looked like the rotation that GA or Bama had.   

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On ‎12‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 9:03 PM, aujeff11 said:

Autocorrect is telling on you, brethren.

Is that his name b/c of the way he acts, or that he has a lot of junk in the trunk?

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5 hours ago, Barnacle said:

This is what I think is more interesting.

Georgia's run distribution this season:

  Rushing Receiving Scrimmage
Rk Player Att Yds Avg TD Rec Yds Avg TD Plays Yds Avg TD
1 Nick Chubb 191 1175 6.2 13 3 31 10.3 0 194 1206 6.2 13
2 Sony Michel 131 948 7.2 13 5 55 11.0 0 136 1003 7.4 13
3 D'Andre Swift 73 597 8.2 3 15 146 9.7 1 88 743 8.4 4
4 Brian Herrien 61 265 4.3 1 2 1 0.5 0 63 266 4.2 1
5 Elijah Holyfield 50 293 5.9 2 1 4 4.0 0 51 297 5.8 2

If our RB distribution looked like this we likely would be talking about getting revenge against OK right now.  Not only extremely smart by UGA but this is why they have Zamir White and Cook coming in as well.  I want this type of ball distribution.  Swift is a beast we will have to contend with for 2-3 more years.

We have to recruit 2 elite every down backs every year.  Every Year.

UGA has #1 and #3

Miami has #2 and #9

Ohio State has #4 and #8 as well as Master Teague

Auburn has #5 Asa Martin and Worm Shivers

I love the dynamic things Shivers could do in our offense if Gus would open things up some.  But we need another stud back that is an every down back that can handle the load.  We should have our version of 2004 Ronnie and Caddy every year at Auburn.

 

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4 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

If our RB distribution looked like this we likely would be talking about getting revenge against OK right now.  Not only extremely smart by UGA but this is why they have Zamir White and Cook coming in as well.  I want this type of ball distribution.  Swift is a beast we will have to contend with for 2-3 more years.

We have to recruit 2 elite every down backs every year.  Every Year.

UGA has #1 and #3

Miami has #2 and #9

Ohio State has #4 and #8 as well as Master Teague

Auburn has #5 Asa Martin and Worm Shivers

I love the dynamic things Shivers could do in our offense if Gus would open things up some.  But we need another stud back that is an every down back that can handle the load.  We should have our version of 2004 Ronnie and Caddy every year at Auburn.

 

I agree. We should be good with shivers and martin but we need to add a big athlete [like whitlow size] or another top running back this cycle.

Edited by AU80cruiser

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On 12/4/2017 at 1:21 AM, ScottsboroAuburnFan said:

Completely agree but we have also slowly gotten worse OL coaching. I think year 2 of the Zone Blocking scheme will be better than 1st year. 

Man that'd be nice right now. Tired of seeing the OL get completely violated every time we play a good front. If those screens weren't hitting against UGA and UA, those games would've been just like Saturday. We don't have any means of pushing the tempo outside of runs up the middle and tunnel/bubble/jailbreak screens. We'll save the throwback screen as a dagger typically but it literally takes the same formation to stop all of our optimal plays. Georgia's adjustment (I forgot the formation they ran with the second time around, I think it was a 3-4?) gave them the chance to stack both sidelines and blitz once they got us behind the chains. Severely helped when we didnt have a RB out there that could move laterally

 

Tl;Dr I think we wont know how good the OL can be next year unless the playbook stops being rudimentary 

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First, I agree 100% in spreading the carries around a bit, as it gives you depth in the event someone is hurt, keeps guys fresh, can help w/ recruiting, etc.

However,  one thing that can make this harder (note I said harder, not impossible) is that when we sub a RB it also gives the defense a chance to sub, which is not ideal in a HUNH offense.  Also, lots of RBs WANT to carry the rock that much and are drawn to the opportunities,  but you do what is best for the team, not what individual players want. 

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On 12/4/2017 at 2:03 PM, NorthGATiger said:

If our RB distribution looked like this we likely would be talking about getting revenge against OK right now. 

I think we had every intention, going into the season, of having a distribution like that, but then we lost a key player and when he came back, the other key player, and then they swapped injuries again. Our next best guy was Martin, who is the equivalent of Swift. Miller still has get blocking down, so he wasn't going to be #2. Barrett was given enough carries to get his ears wet and get him ready to contribute more as a sophomore. 

Rewind to the years were Georgia lost one of their two top backs for part of the season and you see the same thing. When #1 or #2 goes down, you ride the other as much as you can, because #s 3, 4, & 5 are in that order for a reason.

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35 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I think we had every intention, going into the season, of having a distribution like that, but then we lost a key player and when he came back, the other key player, and then they swapped injuries again. Our next best guy was Martin, who is the equivalent of Swift. Miller still has get blocking down, so he wasn't going to be #2. Barrett was given enough carries to get his ears wet and get him ready to contribute more as a sophomore. 

Rewind to the years were Georgia lost one of their two top backs for part of the season and you see the same thing. When #1 or #2 goes down, you ride the other as much as you can, because #s 3, 4, & 5 are in that order for a reason.

13 carries in a season is getting a kid ready to contribute as a Sophomore? Sorry, but I absolutely disagree.  The days of letting a kid mature til they're a junior before meaningful playing time are over. Attrition and injuries are far more frequent these days for that mentality to hold up. Combine that with the way Gus rides one back, and it's not a matter of if the kid gets injured but when. Then, we're left with no competent back up and trot a less than effective veteran onto the field and basically abandon the run game and lose the SECCG.

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4 minutes ago, leglessdan said:

13 carries in a season is getting a kid ready to contribute as a Sophomore? Sorry, but I absolutely disagree.  The days of letting a kid mature til they're a junior before meaningful playing time are over. Attrition and injuries are far more frequent these days for that mentality to hold up. Combine that with the way Gus rides one back, and it's not a matter of if the kid gets injured but when. Then, we're left with no competent back up and trot a less than effective veteran onto the field and basically abandon the run game and lose the SECCG.

Barrett is a true freshman. I think 13 carries, especially when those carries didn't just come against cupcakes, and many came with the 1st team offense, is a great way to give him a look at the speed of the game. I expect Barrett to be a real force next year.

I really don't understand everyone's "next man up" attitude about our running backs. We have one of the best running back coaches in the NCAA, with the track record to prove it, as well as another top running backs coach on staff, and people are questioning our development?

Again, someone threw out a talking point that our "idiot" coach rides a running back into the ground and people jumped on it like it was gospel, because it supports the everything bad is on Gus, everything good is despite him mantra.

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Just now, lionheartkc said:

Barrett is a true freshman. I think 13 carries, especially when those carries didn't just come against cupcakes, and many came with the 1st team offense, is a great way to give him a look at the speed of the game. I expect Barrett to be a real force next year.

I really don't understand everyone's "next man up" attitude about our running backs. We have one of the best running back coaches in the NCAA, with the track record to prove it, as well as another top running backs coach on staff, and people are questioning our development?

Again, someone threw out a talking point that our "idiot" coach rides a running back into the ground and people jumped on it like it was gospel, because it supports the everything bad is on Gus, everything good is despite him mantra.

It's a conversation because for the past 2 years our RB durability has taken major hits that cost the teams chances of success. The same conversation was had about the QB position until this year,  but guess what? We STILL have no clue what MW can really do because all we've really seen are QB runs. The same conversation takes place about pl aycalling. Like I've said before.  Gus is great when everything is in place and going perfect. When it's not, there seems to be little adjustment or none at all from the scripted plan. It seems to bleed over into personnel decisions too.That's something that, IMO,  he's got to learn to get better with to ever be considered an "elite" coach. 

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4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Barrett is a true freshman. I think 13 carries, especially when those carries didn't just come against cupcakes, and many came with the 1st team offense, is a great way to give him a look at the speed of the game. I expect Barrett to be a real force next year.

I really don't understand everyone's "next man up" attitude about our running backs. We have one of the best running back coaches in the NCAA, with the track record to prove it, as well as another top running backs coach on staff, and people are questioning our development?

Again, someone threw out a talking point that our "idiot" coach rides a running back into the ground and people jumped on it like it was gospel, because it supports the everything bad is on Gus, everything good is despite him mantra.

I certainly don't think that Gus is an idiot, but I am one criticizing the way he handled the RBs this year. There is simply no excuse for us not to have had *somebody* who could have given KJ more help in the SECCG. Horton's track record doesn't excuse it, not having the right athletes doesn't excuse it, Barrett being a freshman doesn't excuse it*, nothing excuses it. Especially not two years in a row.

*Ask Kevin Steele if relying heavily on two true freshman on the DL last season was an excuse for any shortcomings on his squad. 

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I hope he sees the injury and decides to add some variation into his RB "rotation". What I absolutely hope doesn't happen is that Gus decides to go less physical in the off-season in an attempt to combat all the injuries we've been seeing the past few years. That will do more harm than good IMO.

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Just now, leglessdan said:

It's a conversation because for the past 2 years our RB durability has taken major hits that cost the teams chances of success. The same conversation was had about the QB position until this year,  but guess what? We STILL have no clue what MW can really do because all we've really seen are QB runs. The same conversation takes place about pl aycalling. Like I've said before.  Gus is great when everything is in place and going perfect. When it's not, there seems to be little adjustment or none at all from the scripted plan. It seems to bleed over into personnel decisions too.That's something that, IMO,  he's got to learn to get better with to ever be considered an "elite" coach. 

I totally agree that he sucks at in-game adjustments, but I disagree on personnel decisions. As I've seen it, he plays the best players and puts his players in a position to succeed by not asking them to do what they aren't ready for. We're too far up the food chain for our players to be learning on the job. They have to put in the work, in practice and prove themselves before you put them out there. First and foremost, Gus protects the ball. He'll even tell you that himself. So he's not going to put someone out there and tell them to run a play where there's an above average chance that they are going to turn it over.

As for durability, that's something I think seriously needs to be addressed.  I can't think of a team that has had as many injuries to key offensive players as we have over an extended period of time. We've got to figure that out.

3 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I certainly don't think that Gus is an idiot, but I am one criticizing the way he handled the RBs this year. There is simply no excuse for us not to have had *somebody* who could have given KJ more help in the SECCG. Horton's track record doesn't excuse it, not having the right athletes doesn't excuse it, Barrett being a freshman doesn't excuse it*, nothing excuses it. Especially not two years in a row.

*Ask Kevin Steele if relying heavily on two true freshman on the DL last season was an excuse for any shortcomings on his squad. 

I disagree. Running back is a skill position and a position that changes quite a bit when you go from high school to college. There is a learning curve, especially when it comes to the workman parts of the position like blocking, and even more so in an offense like we run that has a lot of moving parts. You can't expect every single back you recruit to be great.

I know you are a big Miller supporter, but the sad truth may be that he just doesn't have what it takes to pick up the nuances necessary to be a featured back. He played fullback in high school, so the learning curve is that much more. I guarantee you that Gus isn't holding him back for any other reason than that he's proven that he can't reliably run the whole playbook.

As for Martin, he's great, but not the right kind of back... SEC rushers can just throw him around. Just watching Barrett, it's obvious that things have not slowed down for him yet. He actually reminds me of Kerryon in his first year... a little manic when he's in the game. I still think he's going to be a weapon next year, now that he's had time to get comfortable.

As for the true freshman on DL... for starters, both of them were top of the class coming out of high school. We haven't landed a rock star every down back since Dyer (if that's a central complaint, then I'm on board. I still don't understand how, with our coaches and track record, every great back isn't banging down our door). Secondly, not to put down the skills of our linemen, but there is a lot more detail to playing running back in a system like ours, and a lot less translates from high school than it does at the defensive line position.  

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22 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

We're too far up the food chain for our players to be learning on the job. They have to put in the work, in practice and prove themselves before you put them out there. First and foremost, Gus protects the ball. He'll even tell you that himself. So he's not going to put someone out there and tell them to run a play where there's an above average chance that they are going to turn it over.

Then we need to do a better job preparing them.

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As for durability, that's something I think seriously needs to be addressed.  I can't think of a team that has had as many injuries to key offensive players as we have over an extended period of time. We've got to figure that out.

Not running them 25 times a game is a good start. 

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I disagree. Running back is a skill position and a position that changes quite a bit when you go from high school to college. There is a learning curve, especially when it comes to the workman parts of the position like blocking, and even more so in an offense like we run that has a lot of moving parts.

See above.

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You can't expect every single back you recruit to be great.

Agreed. But you can expect half of them to be serviceable. 

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I know you are a big Miller supporter, but the sad truth may be that he just doesn't have what it takes to pick up the nuances necessary to be a featured back. He played fullback in high school, so the learning curve is that much more. 

He played RB in high school. And he has played well in Auburn games in his very limited reps. Either way, when RB1 is clearly injured and incapable of producing- just like QB1 was, also, in the UGA game last year- you play someone who at least gives you a chance.

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I guarantee you that Gus isn't holding him back for any other reason than that he's proven that he can't reliably run the whole playbook.

Exactly. This is a Gus problem that needs to get Gus fixed.

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As for Martin, he's great, but not the right kind of back

Disagree. Watch the film. He produces between the tackles. Might have more trouble in pass pro but you coach around that when your only alternative is putting half a Kerryon Johnson on the field.

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Just watching Barrett, it's obvious that things have not slowed down for him yet.

.I still think he's going to be a weapon next year, now that he's had time to get comfortable.

Rep. Them. More.

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We haven't landed a rock star every down back since Dyer (if that's a central complaint, then I'm on board. I still don't understand how, with our coaches and track record, every great back isn't banging down our door).

Agreed, although Barrett was supposed to be quite good. Again, whether it's recruiting, preparation, trust or whatever (likely a combination of all) there is no excuse for a run-first coach to not have a reliable 3rd RB in year 5 on the job. 

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Secondly, not to put down the skills of our linemen, but there is a lot more detail to playing running back in a system like ours, and a lot less translates from high school than it does at the defensive line position.  

Is the skills gap as vast, though, as the disparity in reps? I'd say not. 

Edited by McLoofus
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Yeah that’s the puzzling thing @McLoofus, we have been 70/30 run/pass for so long but our RB recruiting has been all of the place it feels like. You would think we could land atleast one back over 200lbs each year. I understand the want/need for the 185/190 guys coming out of HS, but we need size. In 2013 and 2015, we got went JUCO to get that extra back. Robinson got kicked off, but he was coming into his own in 2015 late. Had he kept upright, he could’ve had a nice 2016 season. 

I think our RB injury situation is a mix of luck and philosophy. Everyone can agree that it’s annoying to see our RB break off a 30+ yd run only to have us go tempo and slam him up the middle again. Both Pettway and Johnson’s injuries early came from fatigue (pulled muscles). The shoulder and broken shoulder blade injuries are hard to avoid imo. The timing of the injuries has made the carry distribution even worse.

I will say that I am disappointed that Miller was passed by Martin. He did have the knee injury, but his ball security must be questionable. The biggest head scratcher was Gus saying Lb size was a concern that kept Martin from getting Reps. Why recruit smaller backs then?

I am hoping the JaTarvious Whitlow can pan out at RB. 6’ 225lbs sounds nice if he is serviceable. Would be great to have in the stable.

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5 minutes ago, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

I am hoping the JaTarvious Whitlow can pan out at RB. 6’ 225lbs sounds nice if he is serviceable. Would be great to have in the stable.

I'm not of the opinion that we need 200 pounders, but you're certainly right that Gus seems to think so, so I suppose we need more of 'em. I'm excited about Whitlow because it sounds like he might be KJ-sized and KM-quick. Fingers crossed we find *somebody* that Gus trusts. 

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2 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

I'm not of the opinion that we need 200 pounders, but you're certainly right that Gus seems to think so, so I suppose we need more of 'em. I'm excited about Whitlow because it sounds like he might be KJ-sized and KM-quick. Fingers crossed we find *somebody* that Gus trusts. 

In terms of the 200lb type, they can range from 200-225 and I’ll be happy. Just the bigger guys we’ve had in the past have been in that range and we’re our bell cows. The younger backs coming in at 170 or less will always be in that change of pace role and that’s fine. 

Thankfully we found Pettway can be a serviceable force as a bruiser RB. If that didn’t happen, we would really be in some hurt. That being said, Martin runs between the tackles like he is a 200lb back. If he can get up to around 190-195, he will be out next Corey Grant. 

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Just now, FullBloodedTiger91 said:

That being said, Martin runs between the tackles like he is a 200lb back. If he can get up to around 190-195, he will be out next Corey Grant. 

Yes, please. 

Please??

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