WFE12

Jordan Rodgers on Stidham

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1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

I never said he was elite, though. I'm just saying that there is a difference between saying "he has some things to improve upon" and saying "he lacks basic fundamentals altogether." I agree with the first statement, but not the second statement. 

 

That is fine. Agree to disagree.

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3 minutes ago, DAG said:

This is absolutely blaming the coaching staff hahaha but I digress.

No, it's not. Like I said to AU64 above, you have to have trust in what you are doing, whether it's the right play or not. You have to be committed to it. Even if its the right play call, he may not have trust in what he's being asked to do. That might be because he doesn't trust that the line is going to block for him. It might be because he just isn't comfortable with the play (i.e. we only ran this once in practice). There are so many reasons. And yes, sometimes he might not trust in the play call itself. The point is, if you lack trust then you lack commitment and if you aren't committed to your job, then you are going to fail. Early in the season, when he was bailing out on plays early and not stepping up in the pocket. That's a lack of confidence. Might be in himself. Might be a lack of confidence in something else. Chalk it up to maturity and confidence, two things that clearly grew as the season progressed. I don't think it had to do with a lack of fundamentals, because as the season progressed he stopped doing those things. I think a lot had to do with confidence in what he was being asked to do, what other people are being asked to do, and certainly confidence in himself. 

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7 minutes ago, DAG said:

That is fine. Agree to disagree.

I'm genuinely surprised, but fair enough. 

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41 minutes ago, Barnacle said:

He had what I would call an uncharacteristic night from an accuracy standpoint, and obviously threw a horrible pick-six, but none of that was due to "happy feet". 

Here's where I think the big rub is with Stidham. So many people have tremendously high expectations for him... but he's a human and he does, in fact, have bad games. Heck, Cam even had bad games. The national championship was well below his standards.

That's the point I keep trying to make with the LSU game, there's no denying that we shouldn't have taken our foot off the gas like we did, but he was also having a bad game by his standards, and that contributed to the issues.  Some of that can be attributed to LSU's secondary playing well, but there were several passes where he was unusually off target, and then when the pressure built, like you mentioned, he started trying to force the ball into guys who were too well covered.

1 hour ago, Southwest said:

I can safely say most of the incompletions came in the 4th while trailing from giving up a 20 point lead. The D pretty much had figured out what we were doing both pass and run, so maybe someone checking out of redundant plays could have worked. Once again no one is saying give him the keys to the car but it is okay to let them drive around the block sometimes supervised.

His two worst passes of the game were while we were still rolling. He massively overthrew a couple of balls and it wasn't because of pressure, but it didn't seem like it would matter at the time. Later in the game, most of his misses were because the pass was broken up in traffic or he threw into double coverage. Not saying all of that was his fault, but you could tell he was feeling the pressure. LSU's secondary wasn't that good... certainly not better than every other team we faced. 

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3 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

 I totally get you. Yes... when the line isn't doing their job and you're left to fend for yourself, it can totally break your game. I see that less as being a failing of the game plan/play calling and more as a failing of coaching before and between games by not having a key position on the team ready to play. Man I hope Grimes is the answer.

Sometimes the other team is just better....or your team is not executing as well. There are few unique offenses out there....and nothing makes a coach look like a genius like having a superior QB  or a dominating OL.   With the OL bama has had the past few years, you could give them any coach's play book and they could have been able to move the ball.  It would be hard to get more "vanilla" than the offenses run by UGA or bama last year.....it was all about execution.....the "Jimmies and Joes".....not the "Xs and Os.. 

Been thinking about this "trust" issue and seems to me that where it really matters is for the QB to trust his team mates to carry out their assignments ....and the team has to trust that the QB will keep his cool and make a critical throw when it is needed.   Not sure we were there last in some of the games.     

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On 4/12/2018 at 8:23 PM, AUsince72 said:

No worries.  My sense of humor is often an aquired taste.

I actually understood Andy Kaufman if that tells you anything...

No way that's impossible.....:poke:

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2 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

No way that's impossible.....:poke:

Fair 'nuff. :partey:

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On 4/13/2018 at 3:40 PM, AU64 said:

Been thinking about this "trust" issue and seems to me that where it really matters is for the QB to trust his team mates to carry out their assignments ....and the team has to trust that the QB will keep his cool and make a critical throw when it is needed.   Not sure we were there last in some of the games.     

Valid suggestions for sure.

I would think it matters across the board. It's generally accepted that offensive linemen need a lot of reps with each other to "gel". You can extrapolate that to every relationship on the field, on the sidelines and in between. And that's why I'm putting a lot of stock in Stidham and Lindsey both being back in year 2 along with most of our WRs, who were also still *very* green last season. 

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On 4/13/2018 at 9:28 AM, DAG said:

SW fundamentals were never questioned. He looked good in the pocket. Much better than JS ever did last year.

No words. 

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1 hour ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

No words. 

SW looks great in the pocket BOTH when it collapses and when it is clear. The shoulders are squared, eyes downfield, feet are steadily moving. Does not have the arm strength, stature or physical attributes of JS, but fundamentally, he was as disciplined as they come.

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On 4/11/2018 at 6:00 PM, DAG said:

IMO, if this is even real, JS would have a lot of audacity to pull a LaMarcus Aldridge. He slowly needed to get back in the groove of even being a capable QB last season. I am sure with familiarity this season he will get much more independence, but last season he really didn’t deserve as much as he thinks he needed. Again, if this is even close to accurate .

I guess I am different.  When we were playing LSU or UGA the second time it had to drive him nuts to walk up to the line with a run up the middle called and see that the play was going to fail before the ball snapped.  Honestly it's ridiculous  to have to run something that you know is fixing to get blown up when you can easily have a simple audible to get out of it.  In the 2nd half of the LSU game it was clear to see.  In the UGA game, the confused PE teacher kept run blitzing Roquan over and over again and we could not check out of the play that was called.  A play action with the RB picking up RS would have been killer on a quick slant where Roquan was vacating from.  

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2 minutes ago, NorthGATiger said:

I guess I am different.  When we were playing LSU or UGA the second time it had to drive him nuts to walk up to the line with a run up the middle called and see that the play was going to fail before the ball snapped.  Honestly it's ridiculous  to have to run something that you know is fixing to get blown up when you can easily have a simple audible to get out of it.  In the 2nd half of the LSU game it was clear to see.  In the UGA game, the confused PE teacher kept run blitzing Roquan over and over again and we could not check out of the play that was called.  A play action with the RB picking up RS would have been killer on a quick slant where Roquan was vacating from.  

I agree. It is absolutely fair for him to ask for a hot read in certain cases. I think my questioning boils down to was the idea that this frustration is what led him to potentially want to go to the NFL Draft. Not being able to check out of a play is far from a reason as to why he shouldn't enter the draft, as I felt from a QB standpoint he just wasn't ready. To me, that is a simple discussion that could've been had throughout the season, but to say I am going to go to the NFL if I don't get this (Rumored) is laughable, as he would've been Blaine Gabbert 2.0 without the pub. 

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4 minutes ago, DAG said:

I agree. It is absolutely fair for him to ask for a hot read in certain cases. I think my questioning boils down to was the idea that this frustration is what led him to potentially want to go to the NFL Draft. Not being able to check out of a play is far from a reason as to why he shouldn't enter the draft, as I felt from a QB standpoint he just wasn't ready. To me, that is a simple discussion that could've been had throughout the season, but to say I am going to go to the NFL if I don't get this (Rumored) is laughable, as he would've been Blaine Gabbert 2.0 without the pub. 

I agree if that's how it went down.  I can totally understand as well if he sees what many others complain about with the play calling and lack of simple play designs.  We truly were a go deep or WR screen offense as far as pass plays were concerned.  We have so many more options to attack a defense that we did not ever attempt to use and I think for a QB getting killed by the rush that it has to be frustrating when a simple 7-8 yard slant would allow him to get rid of the ball quickly.  We took too many 8 yard sacks that could have easily been 12 yard gains had JS not had to sit there waiting for the 20 and 30 yard routes downfield as his only option.

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Just now, NorthGATiger said:

I agree if that's how it went down.  I can totally understand as well if he sees what many others complain about with the play calling and lack of simple play designs.  We truly were a go deep or WR screen offense as far as pass plays were concerned.  We have so many more options to attack a defense that we did not ever attempt to use and I think for a QB getting killed by the rush that it has to be frustrating when a simple 7-8 yard slant would allow him to get rid of the ball quickly.  We took too many 8 yard sacks that could have easily been 12 yard gains had JS not had to sit there waiting for the 20 and 30 yard routes downfield as his only option.

Yep, hopefully, we see more variety of plays to help JS this year. He will need it with this offensive line.

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2 hours ago, DAG said:

I agree. It is absolutely fair for him to ask for a hot read in certain cases. I think my questioning boils down to was the idea that this frustration is what led him to potentially want to go to the NFL Draft. Not being able to check out of a play is far from a reason as to why he shouldn't enter the draft, as I felt from a QB standpoint he just wasn't ready. To me, that is a simple discussion that could've been had throughout the season, but to say I am going to go to the NFL if I don't get this (Rumored) is laughable, as he would've been Blaine Gabbert 2.0 without the pub. 

 

2 hours ago, NorthGATiger said:

I agree if that's how it went down.  I can totally understand as well if he sees what many others complain about with the play calling and lack of simple play designs.  We truly were a go deep or WR screen offense as far as pass plays were concerned.  We have so many more options to attack a defense that we did not ever attempt to use and I think for a QB getting killed by the rush that it has to be frustrating when a simple 7-8 yard slant would allow him to get rid of the ball quickly.  We took too many 8 yard sacks that could have easily been 12 yard gains had JS not had to sit there waiting for the 20 and 30 yard routes downfield as his only option.

Word.

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3 hours ago, DAG said:

SW looks great in the pocket BOTH when it collapses and when it is clear. The shoulders are squared, eyes downfield, feet are steadily moving. Does not have the arm strength, stature or physical attributes of JS, but fundamentally, he was as disciplined as they come.

Took WAY too much time to throw in MANY cases. 

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14 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Took WAY too much time to throw in MANY cases. 

That is a fair assessment. I can agree JS has a quicker release and time clock. My only complaint of Stidham is his mechanics when the pocket falls apart. 

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57 minutes ago, Scotty2Hotty said:

Took WAY too much time to throw in MANY cases. 

Seems to be an emerging theme among our QBs. 

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5 minutes ago, McLoofus said:

Seems to be an emerging theme among our QBs. 

Inexperience....none of our recent QBs (since Nick) have had much experience under fire which probably makes them less sure of what they need to be doing and how long they have to do it.    More or less JS just finished his freshman year in terms of experience....... I'm looking for better results this year. 

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10 hours ago, AU64 said:

Inexperience....none of our recent QBs (since Nick) have had much experience under fire which probably makes them less sure of what they need to be doing and how long they have to do it.    More or less JS just finished his freshman year in terms of experience....... I'm looking for better results this year. 

That's part of it. 

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Best I can tell, JS is a fine young man. Ultimatums seem out of character.

Discussing responsibilities going forward is probably true. My guess is both parties are appreciative, but aware Gus wants dual threat and given the option of a good passer/good runner vs elite passer/average runner, he’d prefer the former. So, they tiptoe around it.

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On 4/16/2018 at 8:42 PM, AU64 said:

Inexperience....none of our recent QBs (since Nick) have had much experience under fire which probably makes them less sure of what they need to be doing and how long they have to do it.    More or less JS just finished his freshman year in terms of experience....... I'm looking for better results this year. 

Lack of experience + often poor route running + solid opposing secondaries in some cases + some questionable calls against the defense being faced. When you are passing in the SEC, you need everyone on the field and on the sidelines doing their job well to be successful. The SEC is too good on D to trust your QB, alone, to carry the passing game.

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2 hours ago, lionheartkc said:

Lack of experience + often poor route running + solid opposing secondaries in some cases + some questionable calls against the defense being faced. When you are passing in the SEC, you need everyone on the field and on the sidelines doing their job well to be successful. The SEC is too good on D to trust your QB, alone, to carry the passing game.

All true but  every QB in the league has to deal with this stuff .....some just handle it better than others. 

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4 minutes ago, AU64 said:

All true but  every QB in the league has to deal with this stuff .....some just handle it better than others. 

Yes, but more often than not, the best pure passers in the SEC have the benefit of great receivers and coaches who's offense focus on the pass.

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