AU Draft stock thread

[cole256 17,054]

As far as on this board, the thing about it is people aren't really good at knowing how players are evaluated when it comes to being drafted. And so they say things like they won't make a team or aren't lottery when what they say aren't necessarily true. 

Like people just know Flannigancan't play in the NBA......when his game is absolutely says he can and stuff like that

[steeleagle 2,945]

19 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

His weaknesses definitely do not outweigh his strengths. He's the best ballhandler and passer in college since Chris Paul. I believe he should come back because he has a chance to launch into mega-money in the top five if he does, but he's a guarantee as a first rounder. His FT % is high, and that's widely known to be a better indicator of 3-point shooting development at the next level than 3-pt shooting % in college. The question mark on him is size (which isn't really changing) and defensive intensity (which could improve a LOT). He should be a much more disruptive defender with his quickness and basketball IQ. 

At this point, I kinda think he's out-of-sight, out-of-mind for some NBA teams so he's going to be a high-teens, low-20s guy. He has said (or its reported that he's said) he wants to be a lottery guy. If that's true, either some team is going to promise to draft him in the lottery or he's coming back. His draft grade is very unlikely to be a lottery lock.

Best ball handler in college? No way...

He had almost 5 TOs a game and he only played in 12.  Yes, he is a gifted ball handler, but I remember many a time he would lose the handle, recover, or get stripped on his way to the basket.

I DO think with another year, he improves that skill. I think the main gift he has is his vision on the court. 

And his shooting skills were avg at best. While he, to us as fans, gave us the best PG potential in many years, he still struggled out there against good competition. Yes, he could take over at times, but I didn't want him to be the only one who handled the ball in our offense.

And in regards to the NBA...its' a crap shoot as to what some of these teams need, or will stretch and take a chance on...so sure he could go first round just for those reasons, but I just feel he needs another year, and most NBA teams would tell him the same thing..(except for those desperate ones)...

[abw0004 10,111]

45 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Like people just know Flannigancan't play in the NBA......when his game is absolutely says he can and stuff like that

Yeah but Realtor says he is bad so...

[cole256 17,054]

28 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

Best ball handler in college? No way...

He had almost 5 TOs a game and he only played in 12.  Yes, he is a gifted ball handler, but I remember many a time he would lose the handle, recover, or get stripped on his way to the basket.

I DO think with another year, he improves that skill. I think the main gift he has is his vision on the court. 

And his shooting skills were avg at best. While he, to us as fans, gave us the best PG potential in many years, he still struggled out there against good competition. Yes, he could take over at times, but I didn't want him to be the only one who handled the ball in our offense.

And in regards to the NBA...its' a crap shoot as to what some of these teams need, or will stretch and take a chance on...so sure he could go first round just for those reasons, but I just feel he needs another year, and most NBA teams would tell him the same thing..(except for those desperate ones)...

Of course you're going to remember him losing the ball, he's a PG. College is a place to show what you have, nobody is perfect and you don't have to average a triple double to be drafted. 

It remains to be seen if most teams would tell him to stay a year and besides the top 5 no team is drafting desperate. And even those aren't desperate they just need somebody to help earlier rather than later.

[cole256 17,054]

2 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Yeah but Realtor says he is bad so...

Lol that's actually a good point.....sometimes look at who you are agreeing with and maybe think harder about what you are saying lol

[cole256 17,054]

I guess what I'm saying is people on here are much harder on what it takes to play in the NBA than actual people that draft players

[abw0004 10,111]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Lol that's actually a good point.....sometimes look at who you are agreeing with and maybe think harder about what you are saying lol

Oh no I wasn't agreeing with him.  I agree with you.  I was being sarcastic

[gravejd 3,270]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

I guess what I'm saying is people on here are much harder on what it takes to play in the NBA than actual people that draft players

Very true. Said another way.....what are the teams drafting at the top of the draft looking for? If a team thinks they are a great facilitating PG away from being a contender and they don't care as much about the PG putting up big offensive numbers straightaway then Coop could be a good fit. 

I personally think the combo of his height...defensive liabilities...and lack of outside shot will keep him in college another season. But its not a given if he fits a teams needs. 

[cole256 17,054]

23 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Oh no I wasn't agreeing with him.  I agree with you.  I was being sarcastic

Lol. I know. That's why I said what I said. It's funny but when you think about it it's true

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,665]

5 hours ago, steeleagle said:

Best ball handler in college? No way...

He had almost 5 TOs a game and he only played in 12.  Yes, he is a gifted ball handler, but I remember many a time he would lose the handle, recover, or get stripped on his way to the basket.

I DO think with another year, he improves that skill. I think the main gift he has is his vision on the court. 

And his shooting skills were avg at best. While he, to us as fans, gave us the best PG potential in many years, he still struggled out there against good competition. Yes, he could take over at times, but I didn't want him to be the only one who handled the ball in our offense.

And in regards to the NBA...its' a crap shoot as to what some of these teams need, or will stretch and take a chance on...so sure he could go first round just for those reasons, but I just feel he needs another year, and most NBA teams would tell him the same thing..(except for those desperate ones)...

I don't know if he's the best ball handler myself, but the majority of his guard peers, maybe all of them, play in easier situations than he did. Suggs, Moses Moody, even Cade, I don't think any of them play in a system where that player could be doubled, most of the game goes on as 4 vs 3, and their team would be almost completely unable to take advantage of that. You have to add context to those TOs 

I think Cade and Suggs are better players to take btw, but they just don't face that same level of ball pressure. 

[cole256 17,054]

3 hours ago, gravejd said:

Very true. Said another way.....what are the teams drafting at the top of the draft looking for? If a team thinks they are a great facilitating PG away from being a contender and they don't care as much about the PG putting up big offensive numbers straightaway then Coop could be a good fit. 

I personally think the combo of his height...defensive liabilities...and lack of outside shot will keep him in college another season. But its not a given if he fits a teams needs. 

Yes. Even if he was a so called great defender in college because of his size nobody would think he could do it in the NBA. Nobody will draft him for or not draft him for defense stuff. They'll just think they'll need to pair him with a tall versatile wing or two. 

It will be can he be consistent enough with his shot that teams will have to respect it and does he make good decisions. 

And once again what other PG's are available to take. That's a HUGE variable that I haven't seen people bring up. 

[cole256 17,054]

I feel absolutely confident in saying what will determine coop trying to leave or not is how I'd say 4-5 guys will be evaluated. There are a handful of guys that are combo guards with nba interest. Take for instance the guy that plays for tcu or even suggs to an extent. 

If they are viewed as being able to run point then coop probably stays. Also a thing that is going for us or that will make it where coop will probably come back is the success of the recent combo guards Colby white, and even more important Melo and Haliburton has been great so people will look at these combo guards closer and give them a chance.

And of course the last thing is his individual work out. You never know about a guy getting hot. If he was to catch fire at the right time and have an awesome workout with the right team......he'll be gone. Nobody is drafting him thinking they want him to be an incredible scorer, he'll be evaluated on how well he can see things and does he make other guys better

[atl-tiger 655]

SC was held out the last few games. We thinking he's getting healthy for next year or going pro? 

[cole256 17,054]

You see it's all perspective. Many on here stay on flan about something but the reality of it is, it's harder to score in college as opposed to the NBA. Most of the season playing out of position and without a point guard he's damn near a 50% scorer...if you took his 3 point shots out of that he'd be at 60%. 

He's 6'7" can handle the point about like Powell. I don't really consider that being able to say he can play point but able to do it enough to provide assistance. And he's smart.

Can guard 3 maybe 4 positions. That's what other people are going to see. It's about perspective. But dismissing him as if his name shouldn't even be mentioned isn't smart to do if you are really interested in predicting  accurately. It's all about perspectives. 

[TexasTiger 12,847]

Was AU in his bio before?

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,665]

He'll definitely declare and do the workout process, talk to scouts, etc etc

What happens after that is up to him 

[ellitor 33,092]

6 hours ago, atl-tiger said:

SC was held out the last few games. We thinking he's getting healthy for next year or going pro? 

@atl-tiger merged your thread with the AU draft start thread since we are heavily talking about Cooper in here. Expectations are and have been within the program that Coop will return but as we all know that can change.

[Mikey 16,580]

16 hours ago, atl-tiger said:

SC was held out the last few games. We thinking he's getting healthy for next year or going pro? 

He had a sprained ankle. You don't try to play basketball with a sprained ankle. A sprained ankle is why he was held out.

[mcgufcm 4,096]

I heard he had a legit ankle sprain and was in a boot last week. Last thing Pearl is going to do is push a guy with an injury to gut out a relatively meaningless game and risk his ability to participate in pre-draft workouts. That would’ve been insane. 

Cooper is going to have a first round grade. It’ll be up to him and his family to decide whether coming back gives him the best chance to develop and maximize his potential/money or whether taking a guaranteed contract in the 20s and developing on an NBA roster is better. Tough call. I’d LOVE to have him back, but I’m pulling for him regardless. 

[cole256 17,054]

Absolutely, I agree with @mcgufcm 100%,'a bad sprain shouldn't be taken lightly. Especially on a guy whose main attributes in being special is starting and stopping super fast, changing speeds, etc. All of that starts at his foundation. No reason to risk hurting himself more and we're literally not playing for anything significant. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,665]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

Absolutely, I agree with @mcgufcm 100%,'a bad sprain shouldn't be taken lightly. Especially on a guy whose main attributes in being special is starting and stopping super fast, changing speeds, etc. All of that starts at his foundation. No reason to risk hurting himself more and we're literally not playing for anything significant. 

that also means you agree w mikey

[tgrogan21 6,198]

1 hour ago, Dual-Threat Rigby said:

that also means you agree w mikey

I mean, I don't think anyone wants to go that far.

[Dunndone414 469]

19 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

I heard he had a legit ankle sprain and was in a boot last week. Last thing Pearl is going to do is push a guy with an injury to gut out a relatively meaningless game and risk his ability to participate in pre-draft workouts. That would’ve been insane. 

Cooper is going to have a first round grade. It’ll be up to him and his family to decide whether coming back gives him the best chance to develop and maximize his potential/money or whether taking a guaranteed contract in the 20s and developing on an NBA roster is better. Tough call. I’d LOVE to have him back, but I’m pulling for him regardless. 

Given his physical attributes Cooper’s ceiling in the draft is probably mid-first round. He’s probably not going to be a top ten pick if he comes back. If he stays it’s either because 1) he tests the waters and it seems possible he could slip to the bottom/out of the first round and he wants to improve his stock, or 2) other non-draft reasons to stay (more development, likes his teammates, wants to play in the tournament, etc.)

 

Unrelated: we may have two first rounders next season even if Cooper leaves this year...amazing.

[steeleagle 2,945]

On 3/5/2021 at 12:54 PM, gravejd said:

Very true. Said another way.....what are the teams drafting at the top of the draft looking for? If a team thinks they are a great facilitating PG away from being a contender and they don't care as much about the PG putting up big offensive numbers straightaway then Coop could be a good fit. 

I personally think the combo of his height...defensive liabilities...and lack of outside shot will keep him in college another season. But its not a given if he fits a teams needs. 

I think that’s what most on this board feel. Ofc we won’t know what these NBA thinks when it gets down to who’s available at PG and how Cooper could fit in. 

[mcgufcm 4,096]

Guy averaged 8 assists/game and 9 FTA/game. He averaged 4 turnovers (4.2 per game... which is only close to 5 per game if you're trying to minimize what he did), but he also shouldered the entire load for the offense. He had exactly one game with more assists than turnovers. He had fewer turnovers per game than Cade Cunningham (for example) despite having a significantly higher usage rate.

I'll stick by the comp. Paul took better care of the ball, but Cooper had more assists/game than CP3 ever had. He also shouldered a bigger load than Paul ever did (again, usage rate of 33.1 compared to 21.5 in Paul second season). Cooper's 8.1 APG puts him third in the country and leads the SEC. His usage rate was second in the SEC (behind Scotty Pippen Jr.).

If he came back and saw a marginal uptick in his FG% in the restricted area and boosted his SPG (which should be much better than 1 steal per game for a locked in player with his quickness), he's a top 10 pick. What he does for shot creation is way beyond simply an "elite" skill. He's a once in a decade type of shot creator. For now, he's also an inefficient, volume scorer and a drag on team defense.