Ellis Johnson

[CadillacCone 0]

I don't mind if Gus gives CEJ another year. I also wouldn't mind if Boom came back. However, I do remember a few games in 06 and 07 where the defense crapped the bed. Both years against UGA were awful. Chizik's and Gibbs' defenses were better statistically.

[StatTiger 3,188]

I see three issues on defense. First, we have weaknesses in personnel. We lack speed rushers and have inconsistent play on the DL. We have a lack of depth at LB. We have been shuffling people since fall camp. Second, we have poor execution at every level. Third, CEJ's schemes have become predictable. Note I said schemes, not base formations. This has less to do with base formations and more to do with pass coverage and run support schemes, USCe isolated their best receiver on our Star by moving him dorm the outside to the slot. The introduced a quick pitch option run.

Too many games this year have looked like the second half of the BCSNC game last year, probably because opposing coaches looked to that film. Likewise, the USCe game film will be preferred by the remaining teams we face.

The 4-2-5 requires the DL to be playmakers. They must stop, slow down, or force running plays. That has not been happening enough this year. The 4-2-5 requires the base 4-man line to pressure the QB. That has also not happened enough this year. CEJ likes to play man defense. But man D works only if the QB has to act fast due to pressure.

Changing back to a 4-3 will not fix anything. Changing to a 3-4 will not change anything. Bama, a 3-4 base team, has run more snaps from a 4-2-5 alignment than any other this year. But their DBs are much better, their LBs are much better, and their pass coverage schemes are different.

Bingo... it all starts up front. attempting to adjust and make up for the lack of performance by the DL creates issues in the back-7.

[Guest jojo1515]

I am not offering or proposing excuses. Your pulling a 3 game stretch out of 122 years as a basis and only using defensive stats. Total team performance is down over that three game stretch. Compare 2012 to 2014 and tell me where we are as a team. That three game stretch doesn't even come close to worse in 122 years of Auburn football. Wins and losses are a better stat. Not trying to make an Ellis Johnson fan out of you. Make voodoo dolls and burn him in effigy if you like, but to wholesale and discount 2014 season as EJ's fault is very narrow. Where is the offense in getting only 7 points against Ga? Special team turn overs with offensive turnovers.... did EJ cause those as well? Show me a stat where getting rid of EJ will make special teams not turn the ball over and make the offense more productive. Defense has problems beyond x's and o's. Against A&M and Georgia our defensive front has not taken the fight to their offenses. We didn't win those areas. If you don't win up front then next level of defense is 5 yards down the field. Then the offense has the advantage. Our offense did not take advantage of A&M by turnovers. Our offense did not take advantage of Georgia's defense. Our team has under performed the last three games as a whole.

While I see you're point, you missed my entire point. I am not taking three games, I am taking the last FIVE games. Sadly the only comparison over the 122 year history of AU football, there are only 3 game stretches that are as bad. This includes many many terrible seasons overall. While offense and special teams have their place in the argument, over 122 years there have been plenty worse cases of offense and special teams than this year and yet no 4 game stretches of defense this bad, let alone 5. Also, the offense averaged 29 points a game during the 5 game stretch. What's the real problem here?

I do see your point. Think it is a cherry picked point. Take those same five games and record the difference between points allowed and points scored. Take that difference and compare it over a 122 year period and see what you come up with. In that data you will find a better comparison. At the end of season do a comparison and do a yearly evaluation. 5 game sample of a 12 game season of 122 years is cherry picked. To make a defensive stat battle you could take the first 5 games of this season and do a 122 year comparison and the Ellis Pa Paw haters wouldn't like those stats.

To your point about point differential, we have averaged 29 points in that five game stretch. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the previous worst game defensive stretches could say no better about the offense. Again, over 122 years there has never been a 4 game stretch this bad, let alone a 5 game. There is no possible 5 game stretch in AU history to even compare to...nor a 4 game stretch....only a 3 game stretch. In 122 years, every single single excuse that can be possibly conceived has already been used multiple times and yet only three games in a row this bad ever and we have raised that bar forever to 5 games.

[cooltigger21 0]

Let's say that Gus lets Ellis and even the entire staff stay. We know what we've seen this year and even going back to last year. What is there that says he can fix that by next season? Why do we expect a third year to be any better? We might be improved in some areas but I don't see any chance of significant improvement in the secondary. DL could be a little better but we are going to be relying on unproven guys there. That is risky at any level and can be deadly in the SEC. The glaring errors we have seen this year are not going to be fixed in one offseason. Is it recruiting? Have we not gotten enough quality defensive players? If so why? Will he alter his scheme to fit what players we do have? Not trying to make the case for firing. I guess I'm asking exactly what areas that will improve and how that will be accomplished. What areas does anyone think will still be deficient and will the areas that improve be enough to overcome those that do not?

[DyeHardAllTheWay 0]

Let's say that Gus lets Ellis and even the entire staff stay. We know what we've seen this year and even going back to last year. What is there that says he can fix that by next season? Why do we expect a third year to be any better? We might be improved in some areas but I don't see any chance of significant improvement in the secondary. DL could be a little better but we are going to be relying on unproven guys there. That is risky at any level and can be deadly in the SEC. The glaring errors we have seen this year are not going to be fixed in one offseason. Is it recruiting? Have we not gotten enough quality defensive players? If so why? Will he alter his scheme to fit what players we do have? Not trying to make the case for firing. I guess I'm asking exactly what areas that will improve and how that will be accomplished. What areas does anyone think will still be deficient and will the areas that improve be enough to overcome those that do not?

If that's the case and the entire staff stays, we're in deep trouble for next season. The entire d staff needs to go and fountain needs to go back to off the field.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

Turnovers and momentum...every game lost this year has a turnover that changed momentum and it seemed the team just never recovered...as for defense IMO it will take time and talent ....

[Guest jojo1515]

Turnovers and momentum...every game lost this year has a turnover that changed momentum and it seemed the team just never recovered...as for defense IMO it will take time and talent ....

Ok, question...have you seen our defensive recruiting lately? Where is this talent coming from? I agree that the D staff might get by with 1 or 2 changes IF and that is a huge IF they can get top notch recruits for every position. We currently have 1 DL commit...which seems to be a glaring weakness of the D. If they aren't recruiting well enough to pull top notch talent, what then? Not arguing (hate that I have to clarify that these days around here) but I am really asking opinions. If this D staff is subpar in recruiting, what odds do they have of righting the ship?

[PoetTiger 1,896]

I don't following recruiting til the classes are signed and qualified...what I meant by talent is guys being developed over time in this system...

[FormerlySec38Row34 56]

Try looking at the Athletic website, they usually have activities listed on the site.

[AU64 10,122]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

[ausburn 159]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

Don't suggest that it is a team loss.....ah a moment of sanity.

[PoetTiger 1,896]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

Don't suggest that it is a team loss.....ah a moment of sanity.

Preach brothers

[mattarcara 0]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

We only would have lost one game, maybe two if we had a great defense.

[doc4aday 1,887]

Ellis spelled backwards is "Sille" Our defense has looked "silly." maybe Ellis should change his name to Silly.

"

[war eagle6 0]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

Don't suggest that it is a team loss.....ah a moment of sanity.

Lol ^^

[cooltigger21 0]

The pressure on the offense to play a near perfect game and to score on every possession is enormous. That kind of pressure will lead to pressing and mistakes

[Guest jojo1515]

JMO but offense is getting a pass from most people on this board. Doesn't matter who we recruit for D...if the offense keeps making so many mistakes nobody's D is going to save all the games. The O lost all three games this year...with help from special teams. No way a team can win by giving the ball away like we have.

Don't suggest that it is a team loss.....ah a moment of sanity.

Yeah, that's why there is a 66 page thread on the offensive problems...quick trivia bit for you both......if you look around a room full of folks and can't figure out who the one who doesn't have a clue is....it's you

[alexava 6,973]

The pressure on the offense to play a near perfect game and to score on every possession is enormous. That kind of pressure will lead to pressing and mistakes

bingo

[AU64 10,122]

Pressure causes turnovers? Never heard that before....guess it's pressure that causes pass interference penalties....or dropped passes ...or illegal motion, or holding.... or you name it.

Folks are so in love with Gus that they are not holding him and his offensive coaches accountable. Trooper got blamed for poor WR play but nobody is suggesting that Craig has problems.

Blaming the D is an easy out...and 66 pages of mostly repetitive nonsense by a handful of people.....never saw that on this board before have we? :-\

[Guest jojo1515]

Pressure causes turnovers? Never heard that before....guess it's pressure that causes pass interference penalties....or dropped passes ...or illegal motion, or holding.... or you name it.

Folks are so in love with Gus that they are not holding him and his offensive coaches accountable. Trooper got blamed for poor WR play but nobody is suggesting that Craig has problems.

Blaming the D is an easy out...and 66 pages of mostly repetitive nonsense by a handful of people.....never saw that on this board before have we? :-\/>

16th in total offense

61st in total defense

That has nothing to do with turnovers and pi calls right there. Not sure why you have decided to start blaming one of the most productive offenses in AU history but is a complete farce and holds less water than a screen door missing the screen. Total offense and defense....not points scored or points off turnovers or penalties. None of that effects total defense. Your argument is one million percent dead wood completely ignorant to facts. This is only 66 pages because people like you for some reason can't see an obvious problem yet can easily make up another one. Cmon now. Get a clue.

[TexasTiger 12,858]

I am not offering or proposing excuses. Your pulling a 3 game stretch out of 122 years as a basis and only using defensive stats. Total team performance is down over that three game stretch. Compare 2012 to 2014 and tell me where we are as a team. That three game stretch doesn't even come close to worse in 122 years of Auburn football. Wins and losses are a better stat. Not trying to make an Ellis Johnson fan out of you. Make voodoo dolls and burn him in effigy if you like, but to wholesale and discount 2014 season as EJ's fault is very narrow. Where is the offense in getting only 7 points against Ga? Special team turn overs with offensive turnovers.... did EJ cause those as well? Show me a stat where getting rid of EJ will make special teams not turn the ball over and make the offense more productive. Defense has problems beyond x's and o's. Against A&M and Georgia our defensive front has not taken the fight to their offenses. We didn't win those areas. If you don't win up front then next level of defense is 5 yards down the field. Then the offense has the advantage. Our offense did not take advantage of A&M by turnovers. Our offense did not take advantage of Georgia's defense. Our team has under performed the last three games as a whole.

While I see you're point, you missed my entire point. I am not taking three games, I am taking the last FIVE games. Sadly the only comparison over the 122 year history of AU football, there are only 3 game stretches that are as bad. This includes many many terrible seasons overall. While offense and special teams have their place in the argument, over 122 years there have been plenty worse cases of offense and special teams than this year and yet no 4 game stretches of defense this bad, let alone 5. Also, the offense averaged 29 points a game during the 5 game stretch. What's the real problem here?

I do see your point. Think it is a cherry picked point. Take those same five games and record the difference between points allowed and points scored. Take that difference and compare it over a 122 year period and see what you come up with. In that data you will find a better comparison. At the end of season do a comparison and do a yearly evaluation. 5 game sample of a 12 game season of 122 years is cherry picked. To make a defensive stat battle you could take the first 5 games of this season and do a 122 year comparison and the Ellis Pa Paw haters wouldn't like those stats.

Lol^^ not one time during the uga debacle did I see anyone defend cej while the masses were tearing him a new one, not one. I just sit back and watched it unravel that night, just like I will these next 2 games

The A&M game I really do get hammering CEJ and the defense over. The UGA game? Hell, the defense kept us in it until they finally wore down in the 2nd half. Stopped them 4 of their first 5 drives. Stopped them the first drive of the 2nd half. Only 17-7 at halftime and got us the ball with a chance to close to 17-14. And the only reason there was 17? Muffed punt. Roughing the kicker penalty. Otherwise it would have been a tie game.

Did I see poor tackling and bad angles? Yeah. But I also saw a defense making just enough plays to keep us in it. With even a mediocre performance by the offense, that game goes to the wire. If they are anywhere near their normal selves those defensive stops stand up and we win easily.

If we're going to aim criticism, at least have it correlate to the facts of the game in question.

Spot on.

[cooltigger21 0]

Pressure causes turnovers? Never heard that before....guess it's pressure that causes pass interference penalties....or dropped passes ...or illegal motion, or holding.... or you name it.

Folks are so in love with Gus that they are not holding him and his offensive coaches accountable. Trooper got blamed for poor WR play but nobody is suggesting that Craig has problems.

Blaming the D is an easy out...and 66 pages of mostly repetitive nonsense by a handful of people.....never saw that on this board before have we? :-\

It can by the simple fact is that if you know going into a game that if you fail to score on just as little as two of your offensive possessions, your chances of winning the game are in serious doubt. You will sometimes play tight and take some chances you might not otherwise take. You won't go out and just play within yourself. You go out and try to do too much and that leads to bad play. It happens in all sports. In the UGA game the offense just laid an egg, no question. Started off good and then nothing.

[meh130 1,043]

Some have correctly pointed out our defense has played well at times this year. They played better in the first half of the season, compared to the second half of the season. They played well in the second half of aTm, and most of the UGA game.

Questions:

Does our inconsistent Defensive play point to coaching issues, or talent issues?

If coaching, does it lie solely with the DC, or with some of the position coaches?

I do feel in this forum there is a reluctance to pin our poor DL play to CRG, and our dropped passes to CDC, probably because CRG and CDC are AU alums. My point is there is a lot of blame to go around.

I think we need wholesale work on the defense. Whether that means coaching changes or not, I do not know. Ultimately, CEJ decides the system, schemes, and coverages we run.

While I like the theory behind the Big Nickel (4-2-5, 3-3-5) base defenses, I think the systems and schemes of CEJs version of the 4-2-5 simply are not working for us. I would rather our four best DBs be on the field in the right positions. CEJ seems to want to put his best DB talent at Star, his next best DB talent at the safeties, and then put his fastest guys at CB. Then he wants to play heavy man, with potentially our best cover guys at safety positions. I have to wonder if the Star is pulling talent away from the other DB positions.

The 4-2-5 Big Nickel is a great alternative defense set for base 4-3 teams, and perhaps works better with different coverage schemes. But maybe it is time to get our three best LBs on the field, and our four best DBs on the field at the same time, and go with different pass coverages which better suit our talent.

[AU64 10,122]

It can by the simple fact is that if you know going into a game that if you fail to score on just as little as two of your offensive possessions, your chances of winning the game are in serious doubt. You will sometimes play tight and take some chances you might not otherwise take. You won't go out and just play within yourself. You go out and try to do too much and that leads to bad play. It happens in all sports. In the UGA game the offense just laid an egg, no question. Started off good and then nothing.

Partly true but what about when the D makes a stop and then finds itself right back on the field. check the piece below to see who is putting pressure on who:

http://auburn.247sports.com/Article/Turnovers-miscues-turn-up-heat-on-Auburn-defense-33098723

[Guest jojo1515]

64, for all your excuses for the D, I want you to look at something. It's called ARKANSAS. Half the players that we have and shutting out Ole Miss after shutting out a much improved since playing us LSU. Any excuse you can make for our D can be made for Arkansas times ten. Somehow, they are playing shut down defense. How in the world do you explain the discrepancy between them and us????????