Theist, Atheist, Agnostic. Teaching children.

[alexava 6,973]

AURaptor... You assume that all of us that have faith in the bible were complete misfits before we picked up the book and put trust in it.

Where have I ever said that ? That'd be never. Please, don't accuse me of stereo typing you while you project your own false stereo typical views onto me.

Fair enough and I will change my assumption that was built over a long period of time from reading your posts on people believing in "fairy tales" and how you don't need no book.

I think books are fine. Even the bible. Though I admit, I'll likely never read it cover to cover. Still, I don't doubt it's a significant collaboration and collection of history and folk lore.

If you know there is no god, do you see me as off just a little mentally because I claim to know there is a GOD? OR would you say that I just have a wild imagination?

Why would you care ? Thing is, I get the draw to such belief. If we lived in Egypt in the time of the Pharaohs, how could most of us deny the significance of Ra , as we stood in the shadows of the great pyramids ? Point is, our views are shaped by the world in which we live.

It's really hard to reconcile your certainty in no god and not viewing believers as different in some way. (Sorry again as my choice of misfit was a little strong)

Some folks like to watch The Walking Dead. I don't. Does that make them weird and me not weird ? :gofig:/>

To each their own.

if you don't like TWD you are just wrong.

[Mims44 1,868]

TWD, Gonna be 7 seasons at least... should have been 3.

[alexava 6,973]

TWD, Gonna be 7 seasons at least... should have been 3.

no way i would write the ending with so much interest. I would risk making it drag too long and get stale before i intentionally killed my cash cow.

[Mims44 1,868]

TWD, Gonna be 7 seasons at least... should have been 3.

no way i would write the ending with so much interest. I would risk making it drag too long and get stale before i intentionally killed my cash cow.

Well that's the point. It's all about the cash. They slowed down the story a ton when it started getting very popular. So much so that the last 2-3 seasons could have been condensed down to 1.

I haven't even watched this past one, it goes so slowly there's no point in watching week to week, it'll be out on netflix within 6 months and then I can just watch them all back to back if I want.... maybe in 6 episodes there will be 5 minutes of action and plot moving forward:)

[aubfaninga 16]

If you go back and read some history books and scientific literature aufaninga, you will find that there are many instances of evidence that before the flood, the continents hadn't split into what they are today, and were in fact, one single continent. The bible speaks of the land allowing the fountains of the deep to break forth. In some instances this is referred to as oceans, but in Genesis 7:11 it means water from the depths of the ground. So, the flood was in fact global.

Not only that but archaeologists have through the years noted that at a certain depth, they find a clean layer where there is nothing but just earth. This goes all around the world. You find that there were palm trees in the arctic regions. The earth changed drastically after the flood. The continents were split apart at creation. The continental shelf came from the raising of the land after the flood.

Thanks and these are all fascinating theories that I continue to look into.

I myself seem to like how "whole earth decompression dynamics" fits into how I like to think the earths size has changed. Continental drift might be popular but the earth stretching makes the continents and fault lines fit like a glove with the fault lines being like stretch marks.

Anyway, I still hold that all men descended from Adam (all men did not descend from Noah). Just because I do not believe the story of Noah was a global flood does not mean there was not a global event. The continents were separated in Noahs time. Noah did not have kangaroos on his ark. I know Ken Ham will be mad at me but a global flood contradicts Psalm 104. I prefer scripture to interpret scripture.

I know the event that caused Noahs flood was global. I like the idea that a comet hit Greenland which would have definitely effected the world and Noahs "world".

Scripture must interpret scripture

We have the Genesis 1 and Psalm 104 creation account.

We have the sons of Anak. Numbers 13:33

We have the sons of Cain. 1 Samuel 15:6

And numerous other peoples not from Noah or his sons.

The bible is all about one bloodline from Adam to Jesus. Everything else is just outside noise.

Adam was commanded to "fill the earth". He failed! (Seth was a remnant)

Noah was told to "fill the earth". He failed! (Noahs sons was a remnant)

Moses and the Israelite were told to "be a light to the nations". They failed! (Joshua and the children of Israel was a remnant)

Every man before Jesus yielded little fruit to GOD. Remnants!!!

Jesus is the only man to spread his spiritual seed and knowledge of GOD to the ends of the earth. He "fulfilled" GODs commandment to "fill the earth". He was the first fruits of an ABUNDANT harvest to come. Jesus did not leave a remnant for GOD... he left way more.

Revelation 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"

[Weegle777 78]

So you are saying that the Genesis 6 account of the flood is incorrect?

[alexava 6,973]

TWD, Gonna be 7 seasons at least... should have been 3.

no way i would write the ending with so much interest. I would risk making it drag too long and get stale before i intentionally killed my cash cow.

Well that's the point. It's all about the cash. They slowed down the story a ton when it started getting very popular. So much so that the last 2-3 seasons could have been condensed down to 1.

I haven't even watched this past one, it goes so slowly there's no point in watching week to week, it'll be out on netflix within 6 months and then I can just watch them all back to back if I want.... maybe in 6 episodes there will be 5 minutes of action and plot moving forward:)

it is slower. Still good. I watched the first three on Netflix. More enjoyable to watch straight through but once i got hooked i had to watch every Sunday night.

[aubfaninga 16]

So you are saying that the Genesis 6 account of the flood is incorrect?

Just stop weegle. I have stated that I feel Genesis 6 is correct but gave my understanding using the Hebrew language and other verses to back it up.

You have your tradition and could care less if it contradicts that the nephilim survived the flood. I contradict your traditional story and you want to debate. I am fine debating but I have not seen where you will let scripture intepret scripture. Heck, you all but dismissed the Noah story when it proves man knew clean from unclean animals before the Law was given to Moses.

The history nor the science has nothing to do with my salvation. Keeping hold of my tradition and thinking even if it contradicts scripture does. Noah was a global event but not a global flood. The flood is centered around the 8th generation descendant from Adam. There were no North American Buffalo on Noahs Ark. There were no penguins either. Noah took what he needed to survive a major disaster in his "world". Nothing more and nothing less.

[Weegle777 78]

You are really losing your mind. Were you there? You couldn't possibly know what was on that boat.

[alexava 6,973]

You are really losing your mind. Were you there? You couldn't possibly know what was on that boat. :laugh:/>

he knows what was NOT on it.

[Weegle777 78]

Sure Mike, sure.

[homersapien 11,370]

I think it's way past time for man to abandon the faith-based, literal acceptance of mythical biblical stories and replace them with ones ultimately founded in reality.

For example, what could be more emotionally and religiously inspiring than the understanding that the "stuff" we are made of - heavy elements - were created in a star?

Right Weegle?

[Weegle777 78]

Couldn't be any more of a stretch than what I have heard here before.

[Weegle777 78]

Especially since Raptor knows for a fact that there is no God and now aufaninga claims to know without a shadow of a doubt what animals were on the ark. Am I in bizarro world?

[Strychnine 1,802]

TWD, Gonna be 7 seasons at least... should have been 3.

no way i would write the ending with so much interest. I would risk making it drag too long and get stale before i intentionally killed my cash cow.

Well that's the point. It's all about the cash. They slowed down the story a ton when it started getting very popular. So much so that the last 2-3 seasons could have been condensed down to 1.

I haven't even watched this past one, it goes so slowly there's no point in watching week to week, it'll be out on netflix within 6 months and then I can just watch them all back to back if I want.... maybe in 6 episodes there will be 5 minutes of action and plot moving forward:)

it is slower. Still good. I watched the first three on Netflix. More enjoyable to watch straight through but once i got hooked i had to watch every Sunday night.

I actually like much of the slower pace and emphasis on character development over plot / action development. Then again, to me the show has more to do with the rapid collapse of human society, and the protagonists' continual struggle to remain "human" in the aftermath, than it does the typical formula of post-apocalyptic movies / shows. That said, there was always something villainous for them to deal with in season five: cannibals at the Terminus "sanctuary", slavery and kidnapping by the "police" at the hospital, the move to Alexandria, and the Wolves (which will probably be a version of the Scavengers from the comics).

I do understand the desire to watch entire seasons in marathon form on Netflix (without commercials) though, as that is how I prefer to watch any show. I can see how the slow pace of season four would have been excruciating to watch weekly.

[AURaptor 1,122]

Some folks like to watch The Walking Dead. I don't. Does that make them weird and me not weird ? :gofig:/>

To each their own.

if you don't like TWD you are just wrong.

I said I don't watch. I never said it wasn't good.

But here's my 2 cents. I think , in general, even though it's make believe and all, TWD dehumanizes humans.

" It's OK to run a spike through that zombie's skull, because he's not a REAL person ".

Zombies aren't real. Never will be.

At least w/ vampire shows ( few exceptions, I don't care for either ) they KNOW they're evil, and probably deserve what's comin' to them, eventually.

It's all make believe and all, so I get to make my own rules as to why I'll watch something and why I won't. But by all means, enjoy the hell out of TWD.

( Never watched Breaking Bad either, because of the underlying drug theme of the show. Just me, sorry )

[aubfaninga 16]

Especially since Raptor knows for a fact that there is no God and now aufaninga claims to know without a shadow of a doubt what animals were on the ark. Am I in bizarro world?

:laugh:/>

I know there were 7 pairs of clean animals and 2 of each unclean. That says all I need to know.

You laugh but you only laugh because you feel polar bears were on the ark. Were you there?

[aubfaninga 16]

I think it's way past time for man to abandon the faith-based, literal acceptance of mythical biblical stories and replace them with ones ultimately founded in reality.

For example, what could be more emotionally and religiously inspiring than the understanding that the "stuff" we are made of - heavy elements - were created in a star?

Right Weegle? ;)/>

Can't wait until he finds out that I believe Adam was created from the ground of Egypt and placed in Eden.

[aubfaninga 16]

You are really losing your mind. Were you there? You couldn't possibly know what was on that boat. :laugh:/>

Address the original question.

Did Noah allow incest after the flood?

Now my questions...

Where did Nimrod and his empire come from? Was he from Noah and his three sons only? (because that would have been an accelerated breeding program to break Babel into 70 pieces)

How did the descendants of Cain pop up after the flood if it is clear that Noah did not descend from Cain?

What about the nephilim?

What do I do with ancient chinese civilizations that were around before and after the time Noah?

[alexava 6,973]

Some folks like to watch The Walking Dead. I don't. Does that make them weird and me not weird ? :gofig:/>

To each their own.

if you don't like TWD you are just wrong.

I said I don't watch. I never said it wasn't good.

But here's my 2 cents. I think , in general, even though it's make believe and all, TWD dehumanizes humans.

" It's OK to run a spike through that zombie's skull, because he's not a REAL person ".

Zombies aren't real. Never will be.

At least w/ vampire shows ( few exceptions, I don't care for either ) they KNOW they're evil, and probably deserve what's comin' to them, eventually.

It's all make believe and all, so I get to make my own rules as to why I'll watch something and why I won't. But by all means, enjoy the hell out of TWD.

( Never watched Breaking Bad either, because of the underlying drug theme of the show. Just me, sorry )

i didnt take you for such a man of principles. :-\

[AURaptor 1,122]

One can't just open the book of my life and start in the middle.

[homersapien 11,370]

One can't just open the book of my life and start in the middle.

Book?

More like the 'pamphlet' of your life.

[aubfaninga 16]

I am fully aware that most will not read thru this. I am fully aware that even fewer will test or think two seconds about it. I am fine with that but this is yet another defense of my faith for all to read. You will find some interesting points to think about no matter how you feel about the flood or the bible.

All I ask is if you find yourself with a few extra minutes, with nothing constructive to do, just try and read thru it. Thanks

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS TO LET SCRIPTURE MOLD YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF SCRIPTURE!!!

Remember we let the Scriptures interpret the Scriptures about "the face of the earth [erets]":

If the flood was local, it would explain how, only 292 years after the flood, at the birth of Abraham, Egypt was a great nation. It would also explain how there were many other nations, such as the "The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites" (Genesis 15:19-21).

Before I bore people with how I take the Bible literally but don't believe in a global flood let's look at outside evidence because the real tragedy is, when fundamentalists try to make history conform to their false notions and traditions about the Bible, it makes both them and God's Word seem foolish and unrealistic.

According to historians, and Bible scholars, the date COULD have been somewhere around the year 2345 to 2344 BC. These dates fall smack in the middle of the period in history known as the BRONZE AGE. (3000 BC to 1200 BC) This was a significant period in history. The technology to forge bronze increased trade routes, necessitated the domestication of draft horses, the invention of bellows, ox carts, potters wheels, as well as the invention of the plow for cultivating the soil. These were great advances. If there had been a global flood, it would have set civilization back to the Stone Age and it would have taken centuries to recover what was lost.

Written records dating from this time are, of course, not too plentiful. But one cannot deny the existence of archeological evidence that many great civilizations existed in various parts of the world at the time of the Flood and continued through it. If Noah's flood had been universal, all civilizations would have been destroyed along with their inventions, language, art and whatever other advancement each unique civilization would have made. History does not reveal gaps or a large void in any of these cultures which would be the natural result of a catastrophic event such as a global flood.

Earliest written records of an advanced civilization are those of the Sumerians in Mesopotamia. Their King Lists date to about 3350 BC. This shows an ongoing civilization well through the period of the flood.

Egypt's history shows no record of a sudden, complete disruption by a great deluge. The pyramids and other monuments erected there before the time of the flood would surely have been destroyed (or at the very least) badly damaged by a universal flood.

China's civilization experienced a prosperous period during the Yao Dynasty (between 2400 - 2200) with no record of a cataclysmic interruption.

The Minoan civilization on the island of Crete entered a cycle of cultural advancement about 2500 BC. These people had already produced works of art, established cities, had an alphabet and made use of bronze prior to the date of the Flood. It continued to develop and was established as a center of trade until is was destroyed by a volcano in 1470 BC. Though this civilization was based on and island, there was no evidence of a flood in written or archeological evidence.

The civilization of the Indus Valley was a thriving state in 2500 BC. It boasted of two great cities harappa and Mohenjo-Daro. This civilization rivaled that of Egypt and Mesopotamia and continued to exist uninterrupted until 1500 BC.

More evidence is found in Phoenicia. This was a thriving trade center which existed before, during and after the flood.

These along with other groups, the Japanese, the American Indians, and the Negro tribes of Africa, all survived the period of the Flood. There is no evidence that any of these millions of people suddenly disappeared from history and then suddenly re-appeared all over the world carrying the same culture, art, language, writing and architectural designs -- unique to each civilization.

Now let me defend the Bible from fables...

Notice the order of events in Genesis 8:4, 5:

"And the ark rested in the seventh month, on the seventeenth day of the month, upon the mountains of Ararat. And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month, on the first day of the month, were the tops of the mountains seen."

It was 74 days AFTER the ark rested that "the tops of mountains were seen." We believe these were some mountains right around the spot where the ark came to rest. If the writer meant all the mountains in the world, he should have said the tops of the mountains were seen and AFTER this the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. This is self-evident, for there are MOUNTAINS ALL OVER THE WORLD THAT ARE HIGHER THAN ANY IN THAT LAND THAT WAS ANCIENTLY KNOWN AS ARARAT!"

2. After it stopped raining and the water began to go back down, the Bible implies the water receded at the rate of 15 cubits in 74 days (Genesis 7:20; 8:4, 5). A number of recognized commentators have mentioned this points. If we figure a cubit at about 18 inches, the water level would have dropped 270 inches during this time or, to round it off, 4 inches a day. If the flood depth was 29,050 feet (348,600 inches) and the water level dropped 4 inches a day, it would take 87,150 days to get back down to normal sea level. That would be almost 239 YEARS!

3. God told Noah to bring the creatures into the ark and sort the male and female creatures. If there were every creatures in the world, this would require more knowledge than distinguishing between a bull and a cow. What about snakes, ants, termites, snails, etc?

4. What more, how about feeding lions, leopards, tigers, cats, etc.? How much extra animals would be required for all the meat-eating animals? What about the elephants? One elephant can eat 44 lbs of grain, 66 lbs of hay, 20 to 70 lbs of turnips, carrots, cabbage or fruit. If an elephant eat 170 lbs of food each day, this would be 62,050 lbs during the year in ark. Don't forgot to double that pounds to 124,100 for two elephants! Even some animals like panda (Asia), koala (Australia), three-toed sloth (South America) require a specialized diet. Did Noah and his family gather some for them? What about the wood*****s that peck the wood or termites that eat the wood! That would be much trouble! Were the dinosaurs also included as some have claimed? Poor Noah and his family. But, it is possible that all the animals were young, and not fully grown. This would mean a lot less feeding.

5. When the rain came, the rivers filled and ran into the seas which rose until the entire world was covered - according the universal flood view-point. All water became salty. Some fish can only live in fresh water and some require water of a certain temperature. I don't suppose Noah provided climate-controlled aquariums for fish!

6. If we figure a cubit at 18 inches, this works out to the ark being 450 feet long, 75 feet wide, and 45 feet high. Dividing the height of the ark by 3 (for the three levels) would allow a maximum of 15 feet per level. But we must remember that to support the tremendous weight that would be carried, large beams in floors and ceilings would be required, making actual clearance about 13 feet. The door would have been no higher than this. If huge animals such as African elephants and giraffes were involved - as world-wide flood would require - some would have had problems even getting in the door! Unless, of course, they were all young animals.

7. What I find very interesting is this, from the writings of Josephus, the noted 1st century Jewish historian. He quoted from Nicolaus of Damascus, "There is a great mountain in Armenia...upon which it is reported that many who fled at the time of the Deluge were saved; and that one who was carried in the ark came on shore upon the top of it; and that the remains of the timber were a great while preserved. This might be the man about whom Moses the legislator of the Jews wrote." (Antiquity of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 3)

Josephus goes on to say: "Now the sons of Noah were three...these first of all descended from the mountains into the plains, and fixed their habitation there; and PERSUADED OTHERS WHO WERE GREATLY AFRAID OF THE LOWER GROUNDS ON ACCOUNT OF THE FLOOD, and so were very loath to come down from the higher places, to venture to follow their examples. Now the plain in which they first dwelt was called Shinar. God also commanded them to send colonies abroad..." (Antiquity of the Jews, Book I, Chapter 4)

8. Lastly, after the flood, the descendants of Shem, Ham, and Japheth traveled and settled in various countries. "By these were the isles [coastlands] of Gentiles DIVIDED in their lands, every one after their tongues, after their families, in their nations...These are the families of the sons of Noah, after their generations in their nations: and by these were the nations DIVIDED in the earth after the flood" (Genesis 10:5, 32). Now, if the flood had drowned all but eight people, how can we explain the existence of these nations to which Noah's descendants migrated and which "divided" them? Therefore, the belief that all nations of the world that came from Noah's three sons is filled with difficulties.

Other scriptures to think about...

Cain was cursed by God and driven from the "face of the earth" (Genesis 4:14) We know Cain was not driven off the planet... but out of the land he knew as "home" ...

In Exodus 10:5-15 we read about a plague of locusts that "covered the face of the whole earth." It should be pretty evident that this locust plague covered only a limited LAND of Egypt... it is the same wording in both places. Yet we never assume these locusts covered the entire globe...

Genesis 7:4 "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth."

Genesis 7:23 "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the *ground*, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained [alive], and they that [were] with him in the ark."

Genesis 8:9 "But the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him into the ark, for the waters [were] on the face of the whole earth: then he put forth his hand, and took her, and pulled her in unto him into the ark."

Genesis 41:56 "And the famine has been over all the face of the land, and Joseph openeth all [places] which have [corn] in them, and selleth to the Egyptians; and the famine is severe in the land of Egypt," There is no evidence of a global famine at that time... the Bible states "all countries (erets) came to Egypt" to buy corn (Genesis 41:57) Surely it means the countries close to Egypt... Certainly not "all" countries -- unless we assume the Australians or the American Indians... were in Egypt buying corn.

If we take "erets" to mean the entire planet, then we also have to interpret that OTHER PLANETS came to Egypt to buy corn. All this, so we can maintain the false teaching of a universal flood.

Num. 11:31 "And a spirit hath journeyed from Jehovah, and cutteth off quails from the sea, and leaveth by the camp, as a day's journey here, and as a day's journey there, round about the camp, and about two cubits, on the face of the land."

1 Sam. 20:15 "but thou dost not cut off thy kindness from my house unto the age, nor in Jehovah's cutting off the enemies of David, each one from off the face of the ground."

2 Sam. 18:8 "and the battle is there scattered over the face of all the land, and the forest multiplieth to devour among the people more than those whom the sword hath devoured in that day."

Isa. 23:17 "And it hath come to pass, At the end of seventy years Jehovah inspecteth Tyre, And she hath repented of her gift, That she committed fornication With all kingdoms of the earth on the face of the ground."

Jer. 47:2 "Thus said Jehovah: Lo, waters are coming up from the north, And have been for an overflowing stream, And they overflow the land and its fulness, The city, and the inhabitants in it, And men have cried out, And howled hath every inhabitant of the land."

After the Israelites were delivered from Egypt and settled in Canaan, the scripture says they "covered the face of the earth" (Numbers 22:5,11) Not even fundamentalists would say that Israelites covered every square foot of the planet...This is simply a way of stating that they occupied the land in which they were dwelling.

Jeremiah said he was "...a man of contention to the whole earth!" (Jeremiah 15:10). Obviously, the whole planet did not know about Jeremiah.

Zechariah 5:3, "Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it." Only Israel knew of God's covenant. The Heathen nations did not know the details of God's Law.

If you still want more...

1. Most would say that the flood covered all the earth, but in Hebrew, the word for "earth" can mean locality as well:

a. God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and Lot's daughters said "there's not a man in the earth (erets) to come in unto us" (Genesis 19:31) We know that not every man in the world was killed ... only those in the area of the destruction.

b. Exodus 9:33 "the rain was not poured upon the earth" #776 (erets)... Of course we understand it is just speaking about a certain area in Egypt.

c. In Jeremiah 34:1, "all the kingdoms of the earth of his dominion, and all the peoples, fought against Jerusalem." There the phrase "of the earth" is limited to "his dominion," i.e., the dominion of Nebuchadnezzar.

d. In II Chronicles 36:23, Cyrus' empire is said to have encompassed "all the kingdoms of the earth." But there were kingdoms in the Far East which were surely not included.

e. Acts 11:28 speaks of a similar famine "throughout all the world," yet it is not likely it really meant over the whole globe including the New World.

f. Luke 2:1 refers to a decree which went out to tax "the whole world." But this only refers to the territories that the Romans controlled.

I could go on with the list but this would be suffice.

2. If the flood was global, how did it recede? Why didn't the oceans (Atlantic, Pacific, etc.) recede? This would be like dipping water out of one end of a swimming pool and pouring it in the other end. The level would be remain unchanged!

3. How did the plants, trees, etc. survive with the salt water that covered the whole earth. Remember that the flood took place over a year. That would be impossible.

4. How did the animals arrive in Australia? What about those Sloths (those animals that depend on the trees and live in South America. They cannot walk on the land). I could go on with a list of different animals from different environment, climate, etc.

5. If the whole planet was covered with water, how did it drain away or evaporate in 164 days? This could not have taken place in 100 years. I also found something about mathematics which supports a local flood which you will see shortly.

6. One cannot deny the existence of archeological evidence that many great civilizations existed in various parts of the world at the time of the Flood and continued through it.

7. "All" does not always mean all mankind. Did Christ die for "all" mankind?

8. If the flood covered the highest mountain (Mt. Everett), how would they survive in extremely cold and thin air for over a year?

9. Would people who lived in Europe, North and South America, Australia, etc. have heard Noah's message about God's judgment? Suppose Noah had gone on an evangelistic campaign: by what sign could he have convinced them? Merely to mention that his family at home was constructing an ark would hardly have carried much weight. In other words, the building of the ark was a testimony only to those who could actually see it or have first hand knowledge of it. People can hardly have been scattered to the ends of the earth if this was to be a testimony to them.

10. Even fish life would suffer in a universal catastrophe. The mingling of the salt and fresh water could be fatal to many of them.

11. What about in Genesis 6:4, "There were giants [nephilim] in the earth in those days; and also after that...the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." Also in Numbers 13:33, "And there we saw the giants [nephilim], the sons of Anak, which come of the giants:" "Giants" is the same Hebrew word #5303. Why weren't they destroyed during the flood? I think this is a stumbling block for those who hold there was a global flood.

If the flood was local, it would explain how, only 292 years after the flood, at the birth of Abraham, Egypt was a great nation. It would also explain how there were many other nations, such as the "The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites" (Genesis 15:19-21).

[aubfaninga 16]

As I was checking my email a brother of mine had sent me his latest video upload. The timing is perfect. This is how I approach scripture.

[AURaptor 1,122]

The ending of The Lord of the Rings took less time than that last post .