Denmark bans sex with animals.

[DKW 86 7,426]

Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/doctrine-theology/doctrine-of-god/does-god-change-his-mind-divine-repentance-by-r-c-sproul/

"

Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: “LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.” So the LORD relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people." (Exod. 32:11-14)

God does change his mind in answer to prayer.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

aufaninga.......re. your post #60 above I agree with you. Thanks for expressing it that way. Your following posts are also good. We may not agree 100% but who does.

We agree about Auburn so we are family in my book.

P.s. Dont let ICHY or Homer see us posting like this. I might lose my "sewing circle" membership.

It's not you opinions that are the problem. It's your lousy needlepoint, you horrible knitting, your pathetic cross-stitch, and you inability to do something as simple as a hem. Iron on patches and a Beadazzler are hardly sewing. You sir,,,,, are a poor seamstress and that is why, if you didn't bring the refreshments, you wouldn't even be invited to the quilting parties.

Ouch... I thought you were honest about loving the "I worship Obama" sweater that I made for you????

So what if I spelled it "warship". Bigben showed me how to make it look like an o again with his wine spilling technique and you said you loved it.

I am going to cry to my wife now. She never listens but she does not say such mean things either.

I'm sorry. I guess I'm just more passionate about the sewing than the politics. You have to admit, that's a Wal-mart sweater you Beadazzled and, what's up with the three sixes on the back?

666??? It is supposed to be 616. I am truly a failure.

Oh, now, you're NOT a failure. Your sewing is a failure but, you are NOT a failure.

[quietfan 233]

I know one other thing that is coming down the pike. Within the next 10 years a same sex couple will go to a church that they know does not believe in SSM. They will be turned down and then file suit to force that church and or clergyman to perform their "wedding" It won't go anywhere the first few times but the attempts will keep coming. I bet that right now there is a judge somewhere that would rule in their favor. It would lose at the appellate court although I wouldn't put it past the ninth circus to uphold such a ruling. Also preaching and teaching against homosexuality will soon be labeled hate speech and attempts to shut down churches or have their tax exempt status revoked will be made. You can be sure of one thing. If SSM was declared legal in all 50 states, by either a SCOTUS ruling or Congressional act, they still wouldn't be satisfied

Your clairvoyant powers never cease to amaze me. :-\

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Now THIS is a thread that should've ended 5 pages ago....move on

That there is right. Its a mute point now. That there rocknroll music and mixen of the racist done took this country to hell already. Ever generation of young folks just seems to take this country another step closer to satin.

[aubfaninga 16]

Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/doctrine-theology/doctrine-of-god/does-god-change-his-mind-divine-repentance-by-r-c-sproul/

"

Then Moses pleaded with the LORD his God, and said: “LORD, why does Your wrath burn hot against Your people whom You have brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? Why should the Egyptians speak, and say, ‘He brought them out to harm them, to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth’? Turn from Your fierce wrath, and relent from this harm to Your people. Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, Your servants, to whom You swore by Your own self, and said to them, ‘I will multiply your descendants as the stars of heaven; and all this land that I have spoken of I give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.” So the LORD relented from the harm which He said He would do to His people." (Exod. 32:11-14)

God does change his mind in answer to prayer.

We do agree that GOD can change his feelings or thoughts toward something but to say that his WORD changes or can be made void is very dangerous. He spoke the world into existance.

Old wise proverb....

"Think before you speak"

If he spoke it, he thought about it first.

[aubfaninga 16]

I know you have no interest in discussing this in any detail but please allow me to comment on this and we can just move on.

I have every legal and moral right to take the Bible as literally as my heart desires. It's only when I take my literal interpretation into society and it does not agree with the governing laws of that society that I have went too far.

I completely understand that mankind changes almost everything it touches. BUT I still take the scriptures literal in describing GOD, Man, and our differences.

Numbers 23:19 "God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind."

I could give two cents what "man" changes. I am called to change not my GOD. Jesus addressed "Jews" of his day for their traditions that had strayed from scripture.

Matthew 15:3

Colossians 2:8

"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ."

I don't mind at all listening to your opinion and respect your right to it. You are correct that I have little interest in getting into extensive exchanges of Bible verse and Bible interpretation such as the exhaustive "Law and Grace" thread. But that's merely my predilection: I find it tedious, I find such differences of opinion unresolvable, and I personally find it a little too much like the obsessive legalism for which Jesus condemned the Pharisees. But that's just me, and for those who do enjoy such discussions: Have at it with my blessing.

I think you second paragraph matches my opinion best. Everyone is entitled to his/her personal faith and beliefs. I do not see the national same sex marriage debate as a challenge to any one particular set of religious beliefs, those are protected by the First Amendment. But when it comes to the legal status of SSM, the same 1st Amendment protects everyone from the imposition of one particular religious standard. The 14th Amendment, meanwhile, guarantees to all persons equal rights under the law...not all heterosexual persons, not all Christians, not all citizens, but all persons. I interpret that to include equal marital rights under the law regardless of gender identity or orientation.

Meanwhile, back to the actual opening post. I just find it irrational for anyone to suggest that SSM, or progressivism in general, is a slippery slope that leads to legalized bestiality or pedophilia. To me, that makes as much sense as saying legal recognition of heterosexual marriage is a slippery slope that leads to legalizing heterosexual rape.

I agree with your last statement fully. I am guilty of using this argument before but have been rebuked into repenting from such comparisons.

I do however feel that the world around me is slipping more into "lawlessness" at a rapid rate so I still see SSM being embraced by "Christians" as "the falling away" spoken of by Paul.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

People who speak for God or, claim to have a superior understanding of the Bible scare me.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I love this^^^^^^^^

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

I don't think you can equate anyone alive today with the apostles, do you?

And, apparently the early church did not think so. There was some editing of the Gospels.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

I don't think you can equate anyone alive today with the apostles, do you?

And, apparently the early church did not think so. There was some editing of the Gospels.

Whatever editing was done, there's no indication that it was because they doubted the words of the apostles. They may have edited for clarity or to be sure they accurately recorded the words of the apostles, but do you have evidence the early church felt the apostles words were untrustworthy or that it bothered them they claimed to be speaking for God?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

I don't think you can equate anyone alive today with the apostles, do you?

And, apparently the early church did not think so. There was some editing of the Gospels.

Whatever editing was done, there's no indication that it was because they doubted the words of the apostles. They may have edited for clarity or to be sure they accurately recorded the words of the apostles, but do you have evidence the early church felt the apostles words were untrustworthy or that it bothered them they claimed to be speaking for God?

Your argument, so far, is not worthy of you. You know it, I know it.

If you believe there are people alive today who speak on behalf of God, fine. I will not attempt to convince you otherwise. If you believe the Bible is perfect and literal, that is fine also. If you want to argue about either, you will have to find someone else to do it with. My belief is not in a book. My belief is in Christ, His perfect love, and our ability to have a personal relationship with Him.

I will be happy to discuss,argue, debate any subject with you but, not this one. I respect your beliefs and, I sincerely apologize for the post that led to this exchange.

[aubfaninga 16]

My belief is not in a book. My belief is in Christ, His perfect love, and our ability to have a personal relationship with Him.

I will be happy to discuss,argue, debate any subject with you but, not this one. I respect your beliefs and, I sincerely apologize for the post that led to this exchange.

I give you my word that I am not wanting a debate and I will not respond to your answer with any questions or comments.

I sincerely want to hear your testimony of how one can believe in the "Christ" of the scriptures but have no belief in the book that writes of him. Thanks ICHY

(again my word that there will be no follow up responses, from me, unless questioned on something)

[quietfan 233]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

I don't think you can equate anyone alive today with the apostles, do you?

And, apparently the early church did not think so. There was some editing of the Gospels.

Whatever editing was done, there's no indication that it was because they doubted the words of the apostles. They may have edited for clarity or to be sure they accurately recorded the words of the apostles, but do you have evidence the early church felt the apostles words were untrustworthy or that it bothered them they claimed to be speaking for God?

In any case, the question of editing seems a moot point to me.

As I understand it, the argument of Bible literalists is that God guided the writing of the Scripture along every point in its development. From guiding Moses hand in writing the Pentateuch, to speaking through the Evangelists of the New Testament, to guiding the Church as it picked the Canon in Constantine's time. Accepting that argument, then any "edits" would be just as Divinely inspired and accurate as any other part in the process.

And while I'm not a Bible literalist myself, I can certainly respect the consistency and logic of such an argument by those who are.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

My belief is not in a book. My belief is in Christ, His perfect love, and our ability to have a personal relationship with Him.

I will be happy to discuss,argue, debate any subject with you but, not this one. I respect your beliefs and, I sincerely apologize for the post that led to this exchange.

I give you my word that I am not wanting a debate and I will not respond to your answer with any questions or comments.

I sincerely want to hear your testimony of how one can believe in the "Christ" of the scriptures but have no belief in the book that writes of him. Thanks ICHY

(again my word that there will be no follow up responses, from me, unless questioned on something)

First let me just say this. I do not see any value in a clever discussion about faith in Christ. I take full responsibility for starting it. I apologize to you, and to Titan.

Now, in order to explain, it would take a far longer post than anyone cares to read. Please allow me to briefly and incompletely explain and, you can respond here or PM.

I fundamentally believe that our primary calling as Christians is not an understanding of scripture but, an understanding of Christ's love and, the nurturing of our ability to reflect that love. I believe that opening our hearts to Christ is more important than utilizing our brains in an attempt to completely comprehend the Bible. I absolutely believe we can speak directly to Christ if he is in our hearts. I believe the Bible is not a book of ideology or facts but, a book of lessons. I believe it is sinful to use dogmatic interpretations that lead to divisions among Christians. I believe none of us are really leaders. We are all followers. We are all sinners. No one better. No one worse. We are merely humble sinners saved not by the words in the Bible but, by the ultimate love of Christ. Sometimes, I believe the Bible, Christians, and Christianity have become detrimental to Christ's message. I believe we are here to love and support, not condemn, judge, or monitor one another.

I am happy to discuss but, I will not participate if the discussion becomes clever, or dogmatic, or even remotely hostile. It's not like politics.

And again, I take responsibility for starting this conversation off in the wrong spirit and I apologize to you and to Titan.

[aubfaninga 16]

Do the original twelve apostles scare you? They seemed to do that a good bit.

I for one thank you for raising the question. I had the same thought when I read the comment but we were about to start our fellowship and was unable to comment.

[quietfan 233]

I do however feel that the world around me is slipping more into "lawlessness" at a rapid rate so I still see SSM being embraced by "Christians" as "the falling away" spoken of by Paul.

I can certainly understand that feeling.

I think we all, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, have some fears about the future. Although I suspect earlier generations felt the same, that it's a normal part of the human psyche. And whether negative events or trends are actually more frequent these days or not, technology has certainly brought them to our attention more frequently.

But sometimes when I start worrying about the future, it helps for me to remember humanity's triumphs:

After practicing it for millennia, we have pretty much abolished organized slavery, except perhaps in tiny corners of the planet where even there it often exists outside the law. Smallpox is extinct except for a few rare specimens in high-security labs. No one has to fear polio unless they choose to avoid the vaccine or don't have access to it. Disease in general is less frightening than it was 200 or 2000 years ago. It's hard to imagine the countries of Western Europe ever again warring with each other after centuries of slaughter. Divine rights monarchy, classic Bolshevism, and hard-core Fascism have been revealed as failures of political theory. I live in a land where I am free to practice the religious faith of my choice or none at all, and that is true for a majority of the nations on earth. We are successfully feeding and educating more people on this planet than ever before. Our own democracy has survived the Civil War, the worldwide depression of the 1930's when other nations were succumbing to totalitarianism, WWII, the Cold War, and the bitterness of national politics in the last decade or two. The human race has managed to make it 70 years without destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and we're sailing the Solar System with relative confidence.

All in all, I like to remind myself that, except for a few stumbles such as WWII, humanity has been on a winning streak for the last couple of centuries. So maybe we're not really losing that momentum and my worries are baseless.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

As incredible as it may sound, we will be dealing with this issue somewhere down the road. The same sex marriage thing opened Pandora's box.

So people being allowed to marry the ones they love regardless of gender is going to lead to beastiality? Please explain.

[aujeff11 6,243]

I do however feel that the world around me is slipping more into "lawlessness" at a rapid rate so I still see SSM being embraced by "Christians" as "the falling away" spoken of by Paul.

I can certainly understand that feeling.

I think we all, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, have some fears about the future. Although I suspect earlier generations felt the same, that it's a normal part of the human psyche. And whether negative events or trends are actually more frequent these days or not, technology has certainly brought them to our attention more frequently.

But sometimes when I start worrying about the future, it helps for me to remember humanity's triumphs:

After practicing it for millennia, we have pretty much abolished organized slavery, except perhaps in tiny corners of the planet where even there it often exists outside the law. Smallpox is extinct except for a few rare specimens in high-security labs. No one has to fear polio unless they choose to avoid the vaccine or don't have access to it. Disease in general is less frightening than it was 200 or 2000 years ago. It's hard to imagine the countries of Western Europe ever again warring with each other after centuries of slaughter. Divine rights monarchy, classic Bolshevism, and hard-core Fascism have been revealed as failures of political theory. I live in a land where I am free to practice the religious faith of my choice or none at all, and that is true for a majority of the nations on earth. We are successfully feeding and educating more people on this planet than ever before. Our own democracy has survived the Civil War, the worldwide depression of the 1930's when other nations were succumbing to totalitarianism, WWII, the Cold War, and the bitterness of national politics in the last decade or two. The human race has managed to make it 70 years without destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and we're sailing the Solar System with relative confidence.

All in all, I like to remind myself that, except for a few stumbles such as WWII, humanity has been on a winning streak for the last couple of centuries. So maybe we're not really losing that momentum and my worries are baseless.

I don't know man. Two dudes did rape a woman on the beach in front of over 100 people and not one person had the dignity to think, "gee...what if I was the victim! Maybe I should stop this or call the police because I'd certainly hope that somebody would bend over backwards for me if I was in that situation!" Not to mention people in Ferguson took selfies while burning down car dealerships. wtf. Collectively, nobody can realistically think that the next five years will be better either. I've asked several people that very question and the latest answer was back in the 70's! Maybe I should've have grown up in the previous generation. I don't know. I'm a misfit for the current generation lol.

[aubfaninga 16]

As incredible as it may sound, we will be dealing with this issue somewhere down the road. The same sex marriage thing opened Pandora's box.

So people being allowed to marry the ones they love regardless of gender is going to lead to beastiality? Please explain.

Hopefully that has been addressed.

I don't think PT was trying to imply that homosexuals will eventually practice beastality. His fear is the idea of "accepting" people for who they are with no questions asked. There are people who do practice beastality but our society frowns upon it. He fears what we will come to accept in the future. Kind of like the older daughter complaining to the younger son how they have it made. My mother was far more lenient and protective of my older sister than I and I will never hear the end of it.

I admit that this is mainly a religious fear based on texts of what is right and wrong and if our fears are not factual we will be dead and gone soon enough for mankind to move past our fears.

[aubfaninga 16]

I do however feel that the world around me is slipping more into "lawlessness" at a rapid rate so I still see SSM being embraced by "Christians" as "the falling away" spoken of by Paul.

I can certainly understand that feeling.

I think we all, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, have some fears about the future. Although I suspect earlier generations felt the same, that it's a normal part of the human psyche. And whether negative events or trends are actually more frequent these days or not, technology has certainly brought them to our attention more frequently.

But sometimes when I start worrying about the future, it helps for me to remember humanity's triumphs:

After practicing it for millennia, we have pretty much abolished organized slavery, except perhaps in tiny corners of the planet where even there it often exists outside the law. Smallpox is extinct except for a few rare specimens in high-security labs. No one has to fear polio unless they choose to avoid the vaccine or don't have access to it. Disease in general is less frightening than it was 200 or 2000 years ago. It's hard to imagine the countries of Western Europe ever again warring with each other after centuries of slaughter. Divine rights monarchy, classic Bolshevism, and hard-core Fascism have been revealed as failures of political theory. I live in a land where I am free to practice the religious faith of my choice or none at all, and that is true for a majority of the nations on earth. We are successfully feeding and educating more people on this planet than ever before. Our own democracy has survived the Civil War, the worldwide depression of the 1930's when other nations were succumbing to totalitarianism, WWII, the Cold War, and the bitterness of national politics in the last decade or two. The human race has managed to make it 70 years without destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and we're sailing the Solar System with relative confidence.

All in all, I like to remind myself that, except for a few stumbles such as WWII, humanity has been on a winning streak for the last couple of centuries. So maybe we're not really losing that momentum and my worries are baseless.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Please understand that I have the upmost respect for your wisdom and thinking. This was my soul reason for PMing you in the past inviting you to participate in these discussions. Its easy to think I debate and discuss faith to prove what I know or that I am right and you are wrong but I can only promise that this is not the case with me. I have a weird way of learning from people I completely disagree with. Even Weegle and DKW as made me change my step on many occasions.

Scripture is my guard rail to keep me on the bridge. Learning from my fellow "man" is what keeps me in the right lane.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

I have to say.......it's great seeing a civil discussion here.

[homersapien 11,386]

I think it's very rational to fear persons who claim they know the mind of God.

At least to the extent they have any power over you.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

I think it's very rational to fear persons who claim they know the mind of God.

At least to the extent they have any power over you.

It's not that I totally disagree with him, but the statement was quite broad.

[aubfaninga 16]

I think it's very rational to fear persons who claim they know the mind of God.

At least to the extent they have any power over you.

DISCLAIMER: I, aubfaninga, openly confess that I do not claim to know the mind of GOD anymore than I do my wife or Hitler. I do not know the mind of my wife or Hitler but I can use their words and their actions to know more about them and hopefully understand them to a higher degree than I would if I chose to ignore the facts provided.

My words and thoughts expressed about the GOD of Israel are based on roughly 4000 years of testimony of his actions and his words. If "this" GOD of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob needed me to know anymore than I currently do then his SON, Yeshua, would have revealed it. The GOD written in scriptures has every right to withhold any of his thoughts or mysteries from me at anytime and I feel that he has. If he wanted me to know less than scripture reveals then he would have chosen to do so.

I also have never spoken face to face with GOD nor have I audibly heard his voice. (if I do I will tell you but you will never believe me)

Sorry if I have invoked any fear.