Denmark bans sex with animals.

[quietfan 233]

I don't know man. Two dudes did rape a woman on the beach in front of over 100 people and not one person had the dignity to think, "gee...what if I was the victim! Maybe I should stop this or call the police because I'd certainly hope that somebody would bend over backwards for me if I was in that situation!"

I understand your point and was sickened by that incident also.

But then, 500 years ago witch executions were popular entertainment in Europe, 65 years ago mobs celebrated lynching black men, and as the death camps were revealed at the end of WWII, thousands of German civilians pretended they knew nothing about the genocide that was taking place right outside their town.

That helps me put things in perspective, but then again, I could be deluding myself.

[aubfaninga 16]

I don't know man. Two dudes did rape a woman on the beach in front of over 100 people and not one person had the dignity to think, "gee...what if I was the victim! Maybe I should stop this or call the police because I'd certainly hope that somebody would bend over backwards for me if I was in that situation!"

I understand your point and was sickened by that incident also.

But then, 500 years ago witch executions were popular entertainment in Europe, 65 years ago mobs celebrated lynching black men, and as the death camps were revealed at the end of WWII, thousands of German civilians pretended they knew nothing about the genocide that was taking place right outside their town.

That helps me put things in perspective, but then again, I could be deluding myself.

Over 1 million lives will be taken this year in the United States to abortion.

If I dare say that the bible teaches against the killing of millions of lives I am looked at as person not sensitive to the rights of women. Ummmm Hello!!! Most of the abortions that I stand against would have been women if only they had been given the chance.

Israel kills civilians while protecting it's civilians and is labeled as "evil" for it.

The United States (and Israel too) will pay to kill it's own citizens and we feel we are "civilized".

Let's see here... Sanctify same sex marriage all while providing free abortions in the name of health. Make most of the population work 7 days a week just to afford the cheapest and worst food we can find.

Something just seems backwards to me.

On a funnier note, I want to share my for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL "It's all perfectly legal"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dg0ckpmpWM

[aujeff11 6,243]

I don't know man. Two dudes did rape a woman on the beach in front of over 100 people and not one person had the dignity to think, "gee...what if I was the victim! Maybe I should stop this or call the police because I'd certainly hope that somebody would bend over backwards for me if I was in that situation!"

I understand your point and was sickened by that incident also.

But then, 500 years ago witch executions were popular entertainment in Europe, 65 years ago mobs celebrated lynching black men, and as the death camps were revealed at the end of WWII, thousands of German civilians pretended they knew nothing about the genocide that was taking place right outside their town.

That helps me put things in perspective, but then again, I could be deluding myself.

Over 1 million lives will be taken this year in the United States to abortion.

If I dare say that the bible teaches against the killing of millions of lives I am looked at as person not sensitive to the rights of women. Ummmm Hello!!! Most of the abortions that I stand against would have been women if only they had been given the chance.

Israel kills civilians while protecting it's civilians and is labeled as "evil" for it.

The United States (and Israel too) will pay to kill it's own citizens and we feel we are "civilized".

Let's see here... Sanctify same sex marriage all while providing free abortions in the name of health. Make most of the population work 7 days a week just to afford the cheapest and worst food we can find.

Something just seems backwards to me.

On a funnier note, I want to share my :slapfh:/> for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL :eek2:/> "It's all perfectly legal" :eek2:/> :noevil:/>

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Dg0ckpmpWM

Eating pork has never been a spiritual issue for me. I love me some pig. Pork is as clean as any other meat imo. Even if someone convinced me that pork would hinder my relationship with God, I'm still eating my BBQs.

#pigsmatter

[TitanTiger 20,499]

On a funnier note, I want to share my for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL "It's all perfectly legal"

Out of curiosity, why do you still observe the OT dietary laws? Is it merely a "healthier eating" thing or do you attach spiritual significance to it?

[quietfan 233]

I do however feel that the world around me is slipping more into "lawlessness" at a rapid rate so I still see SSM being embraced by "Christians" as "the falling away" spoken of by Paul.

I can certainly understand that feeling.

I think we all, liberal or conservative, Christian or atheist, have some fears about the future. Although I suspect earlier generations felt the same, that it's a normal part of the human psyche. And whether negative events or trends are actually more frequent these days or not, technology has certainly brought them to our attention more frequently.

But sometimes when I start worrying about the future, it helps for me to remember humanity's triumphs:

After practicing it for millennia, we have pretty much abolished organized slavery, except perhaps in tiny corners of the planet where even there it often exists outside the law. Smallpox is extinct except for a few rare specimens in high-security labs. No one has to fear polio unless they choose to avoid the vaccine or don't have access to it. Disease in general is less frightening than it was 200 or 2000 years ago. It's hard to imagine the countries of Western Europe ever again warring with each other after centuries of slaughter. Divine rights monarchy, classic Bolshevism, and hard-core Fascism have been revealed as failures of political theory. I live in a land where I am free to practice the religious faith of my choice or none at all, and that is true for a majority of the nations on earth. We are successfully feeding and educating more people on this planet than ever before. Our own democracy has survived the Civil War, the worldwide depression of the 1930's when other nations were succumbing to totalitarianism, WWII, the Cold War, and the bitterness of national politics in the last decade or two. The human race has managed to make it 70 years without destroying ourselves with nuclear weapons and we're sailing the Solar System with relative confidence.

All in all, I like to remind myself that, except for a few stumbles such as WWII, humanity has been on a winning streak for the last couple of centuries. So maybe we're not really losing that momentum and my worries are baseless.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

Please understand that I have the upmost respect for your wisdom and thinking. This was my soul reason for PMing you in the past inviting you to participate in these discussions. Its easy to think I debate and discuss faith to prove what I know or that I am right and you are wrong but I can only promise that this is not the case with me. I have a weird way of learning from people I completely disagree with. Even Weegle and DKW as made me change my step on many occasions.

I get that about you and have never felt offended by your thoughts or comments.

And learning from the "opposite" viewpoint in a discussion is valuable trait more people could use!

[aubfaninga 16]

On a funnier note, I want to share my :slapfh:/> for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL "It's all perfectly legal" :noevil:/>

Out of curiosity, why do you still observe the OT dietary laws? Is it merely a "healthier eating" thing or do you attach spiritual significance to it?

More just trusting in his knowledge since he knows for what purpose he created each animal.

Please understand before reading the rest that what one eats has nothing to do with salvation for me. I am justified by Christs blood. Anything after that is just a matter of the Holy Spirit leading me where GOD wants me.

Of course I see error in the traditional church understanding of Jesus "doing away with the law" and that dietary laws were purely ceremonial. Even if "Judaism" and their oral law taught that DL was ceremonial, Jesus squashed and rebuked the idea. "nothing that goes into the mouth can defile a man". Tradition makes it very hard to see the very versus most people use for doctrine contradicts their doctrine. (I just ask people to test their doctrines and read the scriptures again as a child with an open mind) When reading try to Defend Abba (our father) like a child first rather defending tradition with your life.

The worse that can happen from studying the argument is a better acceptance for people like messianics, Sabbath keeping Baptists, and Seventh day Adventists. We all love Jesus.

I have studied the health side of it but for me it just confirms that GODS word is true. If I dared to put in spiritual emphasis on it I could only lean toward obedience and blessings.

[aubfaninga 16]

Eating pork has never been a spiritual issue for me. I love me some pig. Pork is as clean as any other meat imo. Even if someone convinced me that pork would hinder my relationship with God, I'm still eating my BBQs.

#pigsmatter

LOL at the #pigsmatter

I love pigs. I think they are great for what they were designed to do. Wild swine are the best janitors of this earth just as buzzards and other animals.

I do understand and can laugh about it because I once felt the "baconzilla" was a gift from heaven. I have spent many mornings at the Shoneys breakfast bar for just the bacon.

A coworker and I reasoned scripture together over this for about a month and finally just decided to agree to disagree. Since that time he has been diagnosed with health conditions that his doctor prescribed he stop eating pork and shellfish. We both ended up eating the same diet and just laugh about it now. Happy to report that his health issue is basically non existant now.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Eating pork has never been a spiritual issue for me. I love me some pig. Pork is as clean as any other meat imo. Even if someone convinced me that pork would hinder my relationship with God, I'm still eating my BBQs.

#pigsmatter

LOL at the #pigsmatter

I love pigs. I think they are great for what they were designed to do. Wild swine are the best janitors of this earth just as buzzards and other animals.

I do understand and can laugh about it because I once felt the "baconzilla" was a gift from heaven. I have spent many mornings at the Shoneys breakfast bar for just the bacon.

A coworker and I reasoned scripture together over this for about a month and finally just decided to agree to disagree. Since that time he has been diagnosed with health conditions that his doctor prescribed he stop eating pork and shellfish. We both ended up eating the same diet and just laugh about it now. Happy to report that his health issue is basically non existant now.

The call of 200 pounds of slightly undercooked bacon glistening under an infra-red heat lamp is hard to resist.

[aubfaninga 16]

Eating pork has never been a spiritual issue for me. I love me some pig. Pork is as clean as any other meat imo. Even if someone convinced me that pork would hinder my relationship with God, I'm still eating my BBQs.

#pigsmatter

LOL at the #pigsmatter

I love pigs. I think they are great for what they were designed to do. Wild swine are the best janitors of this earth just as buzzards and other animals.

I do understand and can laugh about it because I once felt the "baconzilla" was a gift from heaven. I have spent many mornings at the Shoneys breakfast bar for just the bacon.

A coworker and I reasoned scripture together over this for about a month and finally just decided to agree to disagree. Since that time he has been diagnosed with health conditions that his doctor prescribed he stop eating pork and shellfish. We both ended up eating the same diet and just laugh about it now. Happy to report that his health issue is basically non existant now.

The call of 200 pounds of slightly undercooked bacon glistening under an infra-red heat lamp is hard to resist.

Sadly Shoneys shut down here in Columbus BEFORE I restricted pork from my diet. Mayne the emotional stress and withdrawel made look at bacon differently. LoL

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

As incredible as it may sound, we will be dealing with this issue somewhere down the road. The same sex marriage thing opened Pandora's box.

So people being allowed to marry the ones they love regardless of gender is going to lead to beastiality? Please explain.

Hopefully that has been addressed.

I don't think PT was trying to imply that homosexuals will eventually practice beastality. His fear is the idea of "accepting" people for who they are with no questions asked. There are people who do practice beastality but our society frowns upon it. He fears what we will come to accept in the future. Kind of like the older daughter complaining to the younger son how they have it made. My mother was far more lenient and protective of my older sister than I and I will never hear the end of it.

I admit that this is mainly a religious fear based on texts of what is right and wrong and if our fears are not factual we will be dead and gone soon enough for mankind to move past our fears.

Pandora' box was full of all the evils in the world so his comparison suggests to anyone who has knowledge on Greek mythology that homosexual marriage is releasing all evil into the world. Perhaps a better literary comparison could have been found.

[aubfaninga 16]

As incredible as it may sound, we will be dealing with this issue somewhere down the road. The same sex marriage thing opened Pandora's box.

So people being allowed to marry the ones they love regardless of gender is going to lead to beastiality? Please explain.

Hopefully that has been addressed.

I don't think PT was trying to imply that homosexuals will eventually practice beastality. His fear is the idea of "accepting" people for who they are with no questions asked. There are people who do practice beastality but our society frowns upon it. He fears what we will come to accept in the future. Kind of like the older daughter complaining to the younger son how they have it made. My mother was far more lenient and protective of my older sister than I and I will never hear the end of it.

I admit that this is mainly a religious fear based on texts of what is right and wrong and if our fears are not factual we will be dead and gone soon enough for mankind to move past our fears.

Pandora' box was full of all the evils in the world so his comparison suggests to anyone who has knowledge on Greek mythology that homosexual marriage is releasing all evil into the world. Perhaps a better literary comparison could have been found.

LOL. You do have a point there.

Good thing dem Romans and their Ceasars proved them to be wrong.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Elle.....sorry about that. This engineer didn't study any Greek and I don't claim to be literary genius. It was just an expression that came to mind, kind of like "opening the floodgates."

The only Pandora I ever knew was astronaut Bob Crippen's wife

[TitanTiger 20,499]

On a funnier note, I want to share my :slapfh:/> for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL "It's all perfectly legal" :noevil:/>

Out of curiosity, why do you still observe the OT dietary laws? Is it merely a "healthier eating" thing or do you attach spiritual significance to it?

More just trusting in his knowledge since he knows for what purpose he created each animal.

Please understand before reading the rest that what one eats has nothing to do with salvation for me. I am justified by Christs blood. Anything after that is just a matter of the Holy Spirit leading me where GOD wants me.

Of course I see error in the traditional church understanding of Jesus "doing away with the law" and that dietary laws were purely ceremonial. Even if "Judaism" and their oral law taught that DL was ceremonial, Jesus squashed and rebuked the idea. "nothing that goes into the mouth can defile a man". Tradition makes it very hard to see the very versus most people use for doctrine contradicts their doctrine. (I just ask people to test their doctrines and read the scriptures again as a child with an open mind) When reading try to Defend Abba (our father) like a child first rather defending tradition with your life.

The worse that can happen from studying the argument is a better acceptance for people like messianics, Sabbath keeping Baptists, and Seventh day Adventists. We all love Jesus.

I have studied the health side of it but for me it just confirms that GODS word is true. If I dared to put in spiritual emphasis on it I could only lean toward obedience and blessings.

But at the same time, there are pretty clear statements from the apostles that indeed, the dietary laws were largely set aside. You have Peter's vision in Acts where God shows him all sorts of animals that were considered unpure and that Jews were not permitted to eat. He tells Peter to get up, kill and eat. Peter objects and God says "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean." Then there's the counsel by the apostles to the Gentile believers that did away with almost all the dietary laws aside from meat from strangled animals and consuming blood, and even those read more like concessions to them getting along with their Jewish brothers than a permanent prohibition.

Don't get me wrong, if you feel that there are health benefits to refraining from pork and other prohibited foods in the OT. But it seems to me that if those dietary laws were still in effect, they wouldn't have let the Gentiles off the hook so easily.

[aubfaninga 16]

On a funnier note, I want to share my :slapfh:/> for the day. Please keep in mind that I do observe GODS dietary advice to his children. I often point out how this country glorifies and worships pork with more passion than Jesus. You can't watch TV or ride down the road these days without pork tempting your appetite. I saw this commercial yesterday and could only shake my head and laugh. LOL "It's all perfectly legal" :noevil:/>

Out of curiosity, why do you still observe the OT dietary laws? Is it merely a "healthier eating" thing or do you attach spiritual significance to it?

More just trusting in his knowledge since he knows for what purpose he created each animal.

Please understand before reading the rest that what one eats has nothing to do with salvation for me. I am justified by Christs blood. Anything after that is just a matter of the Holy Spirit leading me where GOD wants me.

Of course I see error in the traditional church understanding of Jesus "doing away with the law" and that dietary laws were purely ceremonial. Even if "Judaism" and their oral law taught that DL was ceremonial, Jesus squashed and rebuked the idea. "nothing that goes into the mouth can defile a man". Tradition makes it very hard to see the very versus most people use for doctrine contradicts their doctrine. (I just ask people to test their doctrines and read the scriptures again as a child with an open mind) When reading try to Defend Abba (our father) like a child first rather defending tradition with your life.

The worse that can happen from studying the argument is a better acceptance for people like messianics, Sabbath keeping Baptists, and Seventh day Adventists. We all love Jesus.

I have studied the health side of it but for me it just confirms that GODS word is true. If I dared to put in spiritual emphasis on it I could only lean toward obedience and blessings.

But at the same time, there are pretty clear statements from the apostles that indeed, the dietary laws were largely set aside. You have Peter's vision in Acts where God shows him all sorts of animals that were considered unpure and that Jews were not permitted to eat. He tells Peter to get up, kill and eat. Peter objects and God says "Do not call something unclean if God has made it clean." Then there's the counsel by the apostles to the Gentile believers that did away with almost all the dietary laws aside from meat from strangled animals and consuming blood, and even those read more like concessions to them getting along with their Jewish brothers than a permanent prohibition.

Don't get me wrong, if you feel that there are health benefits to refraining from pork and other prohibited foods in the OT. But it seems to me that if those dietary laws were still in effect, they wouldn't have let the Gentiles off the hook so easily.

This is all in the Law/Grace discussion But please just let me address Peters vision. I am not arguing just showing my understanding of Peters vision.

First off this is a vision and if we take the symbols literally it would be the only case in all of scripture. Nobody teaches the symbols in Daniel or any prophet in such a way.

Second Peter himself pondered what the symbols meant and later in Acts explains the vision was all about Cornelius and calling men unclean.

Thirdly I find it odd that Peter walked with Jesus and recieved the Holy Spirit at Pentecost but still refused to eat unclean food. Jesus NEVER taught anything concerning unclean foods.

Fouth, there is no account of Peter killing anything and eating. He did baptise(death, burial, resurrection with Christ) Cornlius and his house and then communed with them sharing the testimony of Christ(the bread of life).

Fifth, the same chapter testifies that Cornelius was already a "God Fearer" before Peter and that he was well respected by the Jewish community. "God Fearers" typically learned about God on the Sabbth and this is recorded also later in Acts as Peter taught Gentiles for seven straight sabbaths in the synogogue.

Lastly I ask for you to read the advice given to the New believers coming to God by hearing about Jesus. They had no understanding of the Old Testament sceiptures and had probably never been found dead with Jews on a Sabbath. They were given basic advice and James even says that Moses is taught every Sabbath in every city if they desired to learn more.

Even if I used the argument to say it was taught so they would not offend their Jewish brothers it was not to get Jews to come to Sunday church.... it was so they could attend sabbath gatherings and not offend their Jewish brothers.

A quick search will find letters from Roman Governors complaining about Roman followers of Jesus keeping Jewish traditions of days of worship. Let us remember that the early Roman Christians were killed and persecuted for some reason. The last thing to ask is why the Roman Catholic Church felt it neccessary to write a decree claiming the church was moving the Sabbath to the Venerable Day of the Sun?

The very early Christians were hated by both Jews and Romans. I propose that they were too Jewish for pagans and too gentile for Judaism. Very narrow path to walk and many gave their life for a Jewish Messiah.

Blessings Titan and I pray you have a wonderfull Sunday. Thank you for being tolerant and allowing these discussions.

[aubfaninga 16]

One last thing Titan. I don't feel the apostles were "letting the gentiles off the hook easy".

The were confirming the gospel that works does not earn salvation but works will follow faith in Jesus.

Read James to see if I might be correct.

"Show me your faith without works and I will show my faith by my works"

James knew as the new gentiles put faith in Yeshua they would learn about the God of Israel and grow in grace. Not only did Jesus offer salvation but we were promised that the Holy Spirit would help sanctify us IN ALL rightousness.

All glory to Jesus!!!

[quietfan 233]

Regarding diet:

There is also something to be said for persons voluntarily taking upon themselves duties/conduct/sacrifices out of personal need or in pursuit of a more spiritual attitude in life. A personal choice regarding daily codes of living has value regardless of whether that code is explicitly commanded in Scripture.

Francis of Assisi's salvation was not dependent on him taking vows of poverty and chastity, he did so out of personal belief or calling. Mother Teresa could have married and lived life as a middle class homemaker and/or career woman and still be saved. There is nothing in the Bible about Lent or giving up pleasures for 40 days before Easter/Passover, yet millions of Catholics (and some Protestants) do so every year. I have on occasion over the years felt a need to fast or take a vow of silence from Good Friday to Easter morning. I don't do it every year, and certainly not for attention, but it is just something that I occasionally feel called to do to aid my own spiritual mediation.

I am not a vegetarian and have no desire to be, but I can respect those who choose to give up meat because of their own ethical beliefs. I love pork, shrimp, bacon cheeseburgers, and oysters, but I respect those who choose to avoid all four for spiritual reasons. I like my television, my computer, and my microwave, but I can certainly respect Amish who choose to live without.

Seems to me that any sacrifices one makes in the furthering of one's spiritual growth is commendable, Scripturally mandated or not.

[aubfaninga 16]

Regarding diet:

There is also something to be said for persons voluntarily taking upon themselves duties/conduct/sacrifices out of personal need or in pursuit of a more spiritual attitude in life. A personal choice regarding daily codes of living has value regardless of whether that code is explicitly commanded in Scripture.

Francis of Assisi's salvation was not dependent on him taking vows of poverty and chastity, he did so out of personal belief or calling. Mother Teresa could have married and lived life as a middle class homemaker and/or career woman and still be saved. There is nothing in the Bible about Lent or giving up pleasures for 40 days before Easter/Passover, yet millions of Catholics (and some Protestants) do so every year. I have on occasion over the years felt a need to fast or take a vow of silence from Good Friday to Easter morning. I don't do it every year, and certainly not for attention, but it is just something that I occasionally feel called to do to aid my own spiritual mediation.

I am not a vegetarian and have no desire to be, but I can respect those who choose to give up meat because of their own ethical beliefs. I love pork, shrimp, bacon cheeseburgers, and oysters, but I respect those who choose to avoid all four for spiritual reasons. I like my television, my computer, and my microwave, but I can certainly respect Amish who choose to live without.

Seems to me that any sacrifices one makes in the furthering of one's spiritual growth is commendable, Scripturally mandated or not.

Could not agree more.

I admire the Catholics that I know that take lent with a great amount of faith.

For myself, I have fasted before but have no desire to do it longer than three days. I don't fast with any regularity but find it helpfull when my mind or spirit gets burnt out or weighted down. It may be just mental or purely physical but spiritually I feel it does help.

[aujeff11 6,243]

Regarding diet:

There is also something to be said for persons voluntarily taking upon themselves duties/conduct/sacrifices out of personal need or in pursuit of a more spiritual attitude in life. A personal choice regarding daily codes of living has value regardless of whether that code is explicitly commanded in Scripture.

Francis of Assisi's salvation was not dependent on him taking vows of poverty and chastity, he did so out of personal belief or calling. Mother Teresa could have married and lived life as a middle class homemaker and/or career woman and still be saved. There is nothing in the Bible about Lent or giving up pleasures for 40 days before Easter/Passover, yet millions of Catholics (and some Protestants) do so every year. I have on occasion over the years felt a need to fast or take a vow of silence from Good Friday to Easter morning. I don't do it every year, and certainly not for attention, but it is just something that I occasionally feel called to do to aid my own spiritual mediation.

I am not a vegetarian and have no desire to be, but I can respect those who choose to give up meat because of their own ethical beliefs. I love pork, shrimp, bacon cheeseburgers, and oysters, but I respect those who choose to avoid all four for spiritual reasons. I like my television, my computer, and my microwave, but I can certainly respect Amish who choose to live without.

Seems to me that any sacrifices one makes in the furthering of one's spiritual growth is commendable, Scripturally mandated or not.

Great post. Anybody that exhibits self discipline, determination, and sacrifice to achieve a goal is very commendable in my book. Religious or not.

[TitanTiger 20,499]

Regarding diet:

There is also something to be said for persons voluntarily taking upon themselves duties/conduct/sacrifices out of personal need or in pursuit of a more spiritual attitude in life. A personal choice regarding daily codes of living has value regardless of whether that code is explicitly commanded in Scripture.

Francis of Assisi's salvation was not dependent on him taking vows of poverty and chastity, he did so out of personal belief or calling. Mother Teresa could have married and lived life as a middle class homemaker and/or career woman and still be saved. There is nothing in the Bible about Lent or giving up pleasures for 40 days before Easter/Passover, yet millions of Catholics (and some Protestants) do so every year. I have on occasion over the years felt a need to fast or take a vow of silence from Good Friday to Easter morning. I don't do it every year, and certainly not for attention, but it is just something that I occasionally feel called to do to aid my own spiritual mediation.

I am not a vegetarian and have no desire to be, but I can respect those who choose to give up meat because of their own ethical beliefs. I love pork, shrimp, bacon cheeseburgers, and oysters, but I respect those who choose to avoid all four for spiritual reasons. I like my television, my computer, and my microwave, but I can certainly respect Amish who choose to live without.

Seems to me that any sacrifices one makes in the furthering of one's spiritual growth is commendable, Scripturally mandated or not.

Now I certainly agree with this. This would be the difference between a discipline and a doctrine. One is something one may do voluntarily on a temporary basis or a permanent lifestyle change. But one is not *bound* to follow this discipline in the same ways they are bound by doctrine or strict commands such as not having sex outside of marriage. One is not sinning if they don't follow OT dietary laws, but would be sinning if they chose to sleep with their neighbor's wife or expressed hatred and unforgiveness toward a former friend.

Disciplinary practices have great value and I'm all for them. I just wanted to make sure this distinction was maintained.

[quietfan 233]

"...

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;

Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere

The ceremony of innocence is drowned;

The best lack all conviction, while the worst

Are full of passionate intensity."

--William Butler Yeats

Dog Wedding - Sabrina and Reggie - Yorkshire Terrier Wedding - Gowns Required - Free Barking

Madness, I tell you, madness!!!! God save us!