Film room with Cole Cubelic on the OL

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

I really like the Flim Room feature with Cole Cubelic at AL.com.  This edition is very good about explaining what was going on with AU's Braden Smith (guard) pulling to try and stop aTm DE Myles Garrett.  A lot of folks on AU-centric message boards across the net have been hollering about this and how "incompetent" it was in terns of coaching.  Well, in my best Lee Corso voice, not so fast my friend!  Let Cubelic take you to school on this play: 

 

[BhamCAT 47]

That was a very impressive breakdown.  I'm gonna assume that most people accept that Cole knows what the hell he is talking about. 

[NoALtiger 3,875]

So aTm hadn't done this on film all year and then boom....Chavis 1 Gus 0. Let the schooling begin. 

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

I love Cole. I love what he did for us. But I'm sorry... Leaving the best DE in the game completely unblocked by the tackle, and trying to pull the guard (I don't care if that guard is Superman,) to block him is the very definition of "incompetent." Plus he said it himself, part of it is that Garrett is an elite player. Everyone knows this. My wife (born and raised in Oregon) who just listens to me talk about the upcoming opponent, and by listening to the announcers KNOWS Garrett is an elite player... As soon as he saw he was being unblocked, of course he attacked the mesh point. Because he knows he is fast enough to arrive at the MP before the QB hands the ball off. 

 

You can make every excuse in the book. All you have to do is look at Hands record... Twice since 2008 have his teams finished above 100 in tackles for loss. And they have NEVER finished higher than 55...

 

Tackles for loss allowed by teams with Herb Hand coaching offensive line 

•2016: 128th (10.67 per game) 
•2015: T-112th (7.23) 
•2014: T-123 (7.62) 
•2013: T-73rd (6.23) 
•2012: T-105th (6.77) 
•2011: 110th (7.23) 
•2010: T-111th (7.5) 
•2009: T-108th (7.33) 
•2008: 55th (5.43) 

 

We NEVER should of forced our old OL coach out. And before you say it, no he didnt leave to coach with his son in Cincinnati. Thats the feel good story. The truth is he was told he could take an off the field position. 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

2 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I love Cole. I love what he did for us. But I'm sorry... Leaving the best DE in the game completely unblocked by the tackle, and trying to pull the guard (I don't care if that guard is Superman,) to block him is the very definition of "incompetent."

 

Watch the segment again. AU game planned on what aTm had done previously, not just in the opening games of this season but last season as well. It wasn't incompetent in the least. What happened was that Chavis made a change and did something that they had never done before. And as Cubelic explained, had the DE done what he had been doing previously, Braden Smith most likely *could* have slid along the flat and made the block.  Chavis taught a lesson. Malzahn and Lashlee (and I presume Herb Hand) have no doubt learned from it.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

9 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

 

Watch the segment again. AU game planned on what aTm had done previously, not just in the opening games of this season but last season as well. It wasn't incompetent in the least. What happened was that Chavis made a change and did something that they had never done before. And as Cubelic explained, had the DE done what he had been doing previously, Braden Smith most likely *could* have slid along the flat and made the block.  Chavis taught a lesson. Malzahn and Lashlee (and I presume Herb Hand) have no doubt learned from it.

I saw that. But that doesnt change the fact that you just don't do that with someone who could very well be the #1 pick in the upcoming draft(s). I mean it seems pretty elementary.

Regardless of how they had played it all season, or how they played against us last season. You DON'T leave that guy wide open. Ever. This is just 1 of many issues we have seen, and we are only in week 4. At this level, you shouldn't be have to be taught not to leave one of (if not the best) defensive players in all of college football unblocked/wide open. But again, look at the OL numbers under Hand. It speaks for itself. I'm guessing we will see plenty more head scratchers out of the OL. I wonder how long it will take Cole to stop making excuses for bad OL play. 

 

Mind you I am putting ALL blame on Hand for this nonsense. Certainly NOT Braden. He is my favorite player on the team. He was put in an impossible situation.

[DAG 34,216]

8 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

 

Watch the segment again. AU game planned on what aTm had done previously, not just in the opening games of this season but last season as well. It wasn't incompetent in the least. What happened was that Chavis made a change and did something that they had never done before. And as Cubelic explained, had the DE done what he had been doing previously, Braden Smith most likely *could* have slid along the flat and made the block.  Chavis taught a lesson. Malzahn and Lashlee (and I presume Herb Hand) have no doubt learned from it.

 

Well, we did it more than 1 time. After the first time failed, there is where the adjusting should've happened. 4th year being a head coach..adjustment shouldn't be issues.

[Timeslider 6 269]

I agree, there is no excuse for leaving the best rush end in the SEC unblocked, at the very least you put a running back on him, if you do he gets blocked and the play runs smoother, if you don't then you look like an idiot leaving him unblocked. The kid is smart, he knows when he has an open lane to the QB.

[1913-14 263]

53 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

 

Watch the segment again. AU game planned on what aTm had done previously, not just in the opening games of this season but last season as well. It wasn't incompetent in the least. What happened was that Chavis made a change and did something that they had never done before. And as Cubelic explained, had the DE done what he had been doing previously, Braden Smith most likely *could* have slid along the flat and made the block.  Chavis taught a lesson. Malzahn and Lashlee (and I presume Herb Hand) have no doubt learned from it.

The problem is they never recognized it DURING the game to make corrections...THAT IS HANDS JOB...

[aubiefifty 17,492]

i miss the old line coach.............

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

2 hours ago, aubiefifty said:

i miss the old line coach.............

J.B Grimes? Yeah, he was a character. I think he did a pretty good job while here.

[Tiger 8,841]

Every single one of our OL coaches since I have been on this board has gone from "best in the country" to "awful" over a span of a handful of years. It's amazing how quickly we go from "our staff is tops in the nation!" to "___ can't do this, ____'s players haven't been developed, ___'s players can't do that". What is going on?

[keesler 5,934]

18 hours ago, Timeslider 6 said:

I agree, there is no excuse for leaving the best rush end in the SEC unblocked, at the very least you put a running back on him, if you do he gets blocked and the play runs smoother, if you don't then you look like an idiot leaving him unblocked. The kid is smart, he knows when he has an open lane to the QB.

Garrett had to be licking his chops and thinking WTF, do these cats even know I'm standing here wideass open?  You know Ole Chief was salivating too.

I guarantee you he won't see a direct path to the QB laid out on a platter like that again this season.

[VipersStrike1 230]

19 hours ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I love Cole. I love what he did for us. But I'm sorry... Leaving the best DE in the game completely unblocked by the tackle, and trying to pull the guard (I don't care if that guard is Superman,) to block him is the very definition of "incompetent." Plus he said it himself, part of it is that Garrett is an elite player. Everyone knows this. My wife (born and raised in Oregon) who just listens to me talk about the upcoming opponent, and by listening to the announcers KNOWS Garrett is an elite player... As soon as he saw he was being unblocked, of course he attacked the mesh point. Because he knows he is fast enough to arrive at the MP before the QB hands the ball off. 

 

You can make every excuse in the book. All you have to do is look at Hands record... Twice since 2008 have his teams finished above 100 in tackles for loss. And they have NEVER finished higher than 55...

 

Tackles for loss allowed by teams with Herb Hand coaching offensive line 

•2016: 128th (10.67 per game) 
•2015: T-112th (7.23) 
•2014: T-123 (7.62) 
•2013: T-73rd (6.23) 
•2012: T-105th (6.77) 
•2011: 110th (7.23) 
•2010: T-111th (7.5) 
•2009: T-108th (7.33) 
•2008: 55th (5.43) 

 

We NEVER should of forced our old OL coach out. And before you say it, no he didnt leave to coach with his son in Cincinnati. Thats the feel good story. The truth is he was told he could take an off the field position. 

SPOT ON post.

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

Every single one of our OL coaches since I have been on this board has gone from "best in the country" to "awful" over a span of a handful of years. It's amazing how quickly we go from "our staff is tops in the nation!" to "___ can't do this, ____'s players haven't been developed, ___'s players can't do that". What is going on?

I would hardly call Hand the best in the business. Did you not see the stats I posted? 

Tackles for loss allowed by teams with Herb Hand coaching offensive line 

•2016: 128th (10.67 per game) 
•2015: T-112th (7.23) 
•2014: T-123 (7.62) 
•2013: T-73rd (6.23) 
•2012: T-105th (6.77) 
•2011: 110th (7.23) 
•2010: T-111th (7.5) 
•2009: T-108th (7.33) 
•2008: 55th (5.43) 

[Tiger 8,841]

9 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

I would hardly call Hand the best in the business. Did you not see the stats I posted? 

Tackles for loss allowed by teams with Herb Hand coaching offensive line 

•2016: 128th (10.67 per game) 
•2015: T-112th (7.23) 
•2014: T-123 (7.62) 
•2013: T-73rd (6.23) 
•2012: T-105th (6.77) 
•2011: 110th (7.23) 
•2010: T-111th (7.5) 
•2009: T-108th (7.33) 
•2008: 55th (5.43) 

I'm with you man, funny how nobody knew those stats before the season started though....

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

25 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I'm with you man, funny how nobody knew those stats before the season started though....

I did... However I was blinded by what they did at Tulsa together. I mean I instantly knew it was a bad decision when PSU was HAPPY and I mean HAPPY to see him leave. But then it was too late. 

Clearly the blocking schemes they used in Tulsa doesnt work in big boy football. I mean PSU isnt the SEC but its still big boy football. And he totally stunk it up up there. And having to be be schooled in game 3 in a super important game, not to leave MILES GARRETT totally unblocked... Well that just proves those stats to be fact. It proves PSU correct. I mean 1st play of the game... I think its inexcusable, but hey I'll give him that one... But that wasnt the only time we did it. 

 

I don't want to say I have totally lost faith in Gus... I REALLY REALLY REALLY don't. There will always be a special place in my heart for him. For the things he has done for us, but this is just dumbfounding... Forcing Grimes out for this... Hopefully Hand recruits better than Grimes but I sure don't see him being ⅛ the coach Grimes was. And I would of gone lower, but ⅛ is as low as I can put that...LoL

[VipersStrike1 230]

34 minutes ago, Tiger said:

I'm with you man, funny how nobody knew those stats before the season started though....

I saw his 2015 TFL posted a few times in the off-season, but not back to 2008.

BBQ Gang Part Deax.

[oracle79 3,569]

6 hours ago, keesler said:

Garrett had to be licking his chops and thinking WTF, do these cats even know I'm standing here wideass open?  You know Ole Chief was salivating too.

I guarantee you he won't see a direct path to the QB laid out on a platter like that again this season.

Edit: DOH! Nevermind.  I TOTALLY misread your post.  I read in my head, "I guarantee you we won't see a direct path to the QB laid out on a platter like that again this season."  I agree with you that Garrett won't see a path to the QB laid out like that again this season.  

[Auburn2Eugene 2,317]

2 minutes ago, VipersStrike1 said:

I saw his 2015 TFL posted a few times in the off-season, but not back to 2008.

BBQ Gang Part Deax.

It has EXACTLY turned into that.

[Tiger 8,841]

3 minutes ago, Auburn2Eugene said:

It has EXACTLY turned into that.

Probably worse considering we have a GA level OC, and a guy who isn't even 30 as WR coach. Combined experiences of both guys would be less than what I would want from ONE guy on staff..

[Richard78 73]

Mesh Charging. This D scheme seemed to catch AU totally by surprise. What adjustments to the blocking scheme do you make to counter it?

Mesh charging is when a defensive end recognizes the zone read before the snap and then rushes into the backfield, arriving at the quarterback and running back at the handoff — also known as the “mesh” zone. Normally against the zone-read, a defensive end will slide along the line of scrimmage reading the play. He’ll crash inside if the ball is handed to the running back. He’ll stay outside if the quarterback keeps it.

 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

8 hours ago, Richard78 said:

Mesh Charging. This D scheme seemed to catch AU totally by surprise. What adjustments to the blocking scheme do you make to counter it?

Mesh charging is when a defensive end recognizes the zone read before the snap and then rushes into the backfield, arriving at the quarterback and running back at the handoff — also known as the “mesh” zone. Normally against the zone-read, a defensive end will slide along the line of scrimmage reading the play. He’ll crash inside if the ball is handed to the running back. He’ll stay outside if the quarterback keeps it.

 

Ya know how it goes. Every time some guru innovates and catches the offensive world of football by storm and puts defenses on their heels, defenses learn to defend against the innovation. The wishbone was an innovation and it ran up and down the field at Oklahoma and bammer...until it didn't. Defenses got bigger and faster and ran option plays down from behind and that was that. The run-n-shoot? The AirRaid? The HUNH? It all comes and goes.

This is tech related, but see "The Innovators Curse". Two paragraph excerpt sums it  up:

Quote

 

On a recent panel I moderated in Taipei, Ming-Je Tang, Vice President for Finance Affairs and Professor of International Business at National Taiwan University, took up this question. He listed a number of companies that were home to some of the most miraculous innovations of the 20th century—from mass production assembly lines to the personal computer. The thing they all had in common in addition to that innovation was that they are all either now struggling—or gone. They are victims, he says, of the “innovator’s curse.”

Why was this? “They failed to transform themselves to meet new technology breakthroughs,” says Tang. It was not enough to just produce innovation...the real imperative...may be the ability to respond to change.

 

What was innovative yesterday is old hat today. Doesn't matter if it's the HUNH or iPads. You have to adjust. I'm hoping that Malzahn can do just that. Other coaches have. And other coaches have not. Some are essentially one hit wonders.

[lala 327]

21 hours ago, Tiger said:

Every single one of our OL coaches since I have been on this board has gone from "best in the country" to "awful" over a span of a handful of years. It's amazing how quickly we go from "our staff is tops in the nation!" to "___ can't do this, ____'s players haven't been developed, ___'s players can't do that". What is going on?

Not true.  Grimes was awesome and shut down the great Garrett every time.     You could say that is because of Coleman, etc... But this game Garrett got off because of scheme not against the LT.