Who's Colluding with Whom?

[DKW 86 7,425]

The narrative of the meeting with Donald Trump Jr. and the “Russian Lawyer” doesn’t pass the smell test.

1) The Russians were totally in the tank to overturn the Magnitsky Act and thought that they could turn it with Trump.

2) This could just be a simple campaign dirty trick that plainly has gotten too much mileage.

Quote

 

Veselnitskaya’s presence in the United States alone ought to be the source of suspicion that not only is the Trump-Russian collusion narrative suspect in this case but that the real inquiry ought to be into whether the encounter was a small part of a larger attempt to trap the Trump campaign.

The Russian lawyer wasn’t even supposed to be here. She had been denied a visa for entry into the United States in late 2015, but given a rather extraordinary “parole” by the federal government to assist preparation for a client subject to an asset forfeiture by the Justice Department. That was in January. The client was Prevezon Holdings, a Russian company suspected of having been paid some portion of $230 million stolen by Russian mobsters. When Sergey Magnitsky a Russian lawyer representing a company that had been the victim of the theft, reported it to authorities in Moscow he was promptly jailed and beaten to death. The American response to this atrocity was the 2012 Magnitsky Act, which sanctioned several individuals connected to human rights abuses. The Russian government retaliated by preventing American adoptions of Russian children.

But in June, she was permitted to fly back to the U.S., have the meeting with Trump Junior — at Trump Tower, no less — and then end up in the front row for a congressional hearing involving testimony from a former U.S. ambassador to Russia, then turning up at a D.C. showing of a documentary film on the negative effects of the Magnitsky Act, and later appearing at a dinner involving Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-CA) and former Rep. Ron Dellums (D-CA) who is now a lobbyist for the Russians. The repeal of that legislation is a priority item for the Russians and a personal project of Veselnitskaya’s; it, rather than any Clinton dirt, was reportedly the primary subject brought forth at the meeting with Donald Trump Jr.

All of this without a visa! Not to mention Veselnitskaya didn’t file a FARA (Foreign Agents Registration Act) document before acting as a lobbyist for a foreign entity, as required by law. Neither, apparently, did Dellums. Senate Judiciary Committee chairman Charles Grassley (R-Iowa) wrote a fascinating letterTuesday to Homeland Security Secretary John Kelly and Secretary of State Rex Tillerson asking them to please find out what in the hell Veselnitskaya was doing in this country last June.

And further, it turns out Veselnitskaya was connected to Fusion GPS, the Democrat opposition research firm which employed a former British spy who used Russian contacts to produce the infamous and debunked Pee Pee Dossier smearing Trump. Veselnitskaya hired Fusion GPS head Glenn Simpson to work on behalf of Prevezon, the company she was allowed into the country to represent, in its efforts to repeal the Magnitsky Act. Fusion then hired Christopher Steele, the British spy who drew on Russian sources to produce that dossier, and made him available for private briefings on the dossier with left-leaning media sources such as Mother Jones, the New York Times, the Washington Post, Yahoo! News, the New Yorker and CNN in September.

...

By the way, there is Veselnitskaya’s social media account, which is decidedly more aligned with the Fusion GPS side of this equation than the Trump side.

And the meeting came about largely due to hyped-up promises made by a publicist for a Russian pop star who was connected to the Trump family from the Miss Universe pageant having been held in Moscow in 2013 — promises which don’t appear to have been fulfilled. If this whole thing doesn’t look like an old-fashioned dangle to you, then you haven’t watched enough spy movies.

If timelines are interesting to you, there is this — reportedly, the Obama administration sought permission to electronically monitor Trump Tower in early June, and the FISA court would not grant it. But in October, that warrant was given.

So if you’d like to don your tinfoil hat and play the collusion game, try this on for size — when the Obama administration couldn’t get permission from the FISA court to surveil Trump, they allowed Veselnitskaya back into the country to take part in those Washington activities aside from whatever legal work she supposedly would be doing, and in the meantime the administration’s pals at Fusion tasked Goldstone with attempting to hook Trump Junior, whose performance makes him not a terrible analog for Fredo Corleone, into a meeting at Trump Tower to pass along “opposition research.”

And once that meeting — which on its surface was a waste of everyone’s time — was had, the Obama administration now had something to sell to the FISA court to get that warrant — from which they snagged Mike Flynn and gave the Democrat party and the media a mechanism to shroud the Trump administration in what can best be described as a rather dubious scandal. Remember how Hillary Clinton was accusing Trump of being a Putin’s puppet at the October 19 debate?

Which theory is harder to believe?

 

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[DKW 86 7,425]

And do you even read this stuff? 

Quote

Veselnitskaya brought with her a plastic folder with printed-out documents that detailed what she believed was the flow of illicit funds to the Democrats, Akhmetshin said. Veselnitskaya presented the contents of the documents to the Trump associates and suggested that making the information public could help the campaign, he said.

“This could be a good issue to expose how the DNC is accepting bad money,” Akhmetshin recalled her saying.

Trump Jr. asked the attorney if she had sufficient evidence to back up her claims, including whether she could demonstrate the flow of the money. But Veselnitskaya said the Trump campaign would need to research it more. After that, Trump Jr. lost interest, according to Akhmetshin.

“They couldn’t wait for the meeting to end,” he said.

Akhmetshin said he does not know if Veselnitskaya’s documents were provided by the Russian government. He said he thinks she left the materials with the Trump associates. It was unclear if she handed the documents to anyone in the room or simply left them behind, he said.

So, basically nothing happened? They wasted their time on a Nothing Burger? Where is the crime in that?

They had overpriced watered down drinks at a cheesy hotel . Got nothing of value. Met with a hot chick and a has-been agent. 

AND ACHIEVED NOTHING.  Thanks for agreeing with me.

[homersapien 11,374]

20 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

And do you even read this stuff? 

So, basically nothing happened? They wasted their time on a Nothing Burger? Where is the crime in that?

They had overpriced watered down drinks at a cheesy hotel . Got nothing of value. Met with a hot chick and a has-been agent. 

AND ACHIEVED NOTHING.  Thanks for agreeing with me.

And what's your point?

[DKW 86 7,425]

Columbia Law Professor Richard Briffault Explains To MSNBC Why Donald Trump Jr. Can Not Be Guilty Of "Treason," "Perjury," Or "Collusion"

This: As the Good Professor explaineth, you have to have something of value exchanged or it means nothing...as in Nothing Burger. 

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

DKW86.......interesting observations.. I would note that the whole primary/election campaign was a nasty thing on the part of all parties. Let the innocent party stand up and be counted. What amazes me is that some purists think getting dirt on an opponent from any source is something new.

[DKW 86 7,425]

Hey, do not get me wrong here. I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP. I am siding with Justice Democrats. They say stfu about all the mental masturbation of "RUSSIANS!!!" and start working on policy that will finally start winning again.

Kulinski and Secular Radio have been trying to get people to get their cumulative heads out of their assess about this Nothing Burger story. When and IF something comes from the special prosecutor, then have at it. So far we have nothing. No server. No concrete evidence of anything. Nothing. Maybe we need a whole forum dedicated to Trutherism-Birtherism-Colluderism-Banghazi-Russians, etc. Maybe we can call the forum "Nothing Burger Forum."

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

10 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Hey, do not get me wrong here. I DO NOT LIKE TRUMP. I am siding with Justice Democrats. They say stfu about all the mental masturbation of "RUSSIANS!!!" and start working on policy that will finally start winning again.

Kulinski and Secular Radio have been trying to get people to get their cumulative heads out of their assess about this Nothing Burger story. When and IF something comes from the special prosecutor, then have at it. So far we have nothing. No server. No concrete evidence of anything. Nothing. Maybe we need a whole forum dedicated Trutherism-Birtherism-Colluderism-etc. Maybe we can call the forum "Nothing Burger-isms."

[homersapien 11,374]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

Columbia Law Professor Richard Briffault Explains To MSNBC Why Donald Trump Jr. Can Not Be Guilty Of "Treason," "Perjury," Or "Collusion"

This: As the Good Professor explaineth, you have to have something of value exchanged or it means nothing...as in Nothing Burger. 

 

 

A truly amazing example of manichean thinking.

[DKW 86 7,425]

33 minutes ago, homersapien said:

A truly amazing example of manichean thinking.

No, he is a Law Professor giving an educated, enlightened answer to a rare foray into journalistic reality.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

If the meeting DTJ had with the Russians was such a nothingburger, then why lie about it? Not only did DTJ lie about the reason for the meeting, Kushner didn't disclose the meeting on his security clearance forms and the WH changed its story on the reason for the meeting. All these lies for a nothing burger? 

The Russian story as a hoax by Dems to excuse losing an election seems to be losing air. Flynn, Sessions, Kushner all failing to disclose meetings with Russia, DTJ meeting with Russians. There sure are a lot of Russians involved in this administration. 

[TexasTiger 12,886]

2 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

If the meeting DTJ had with the Russians was such a nothingburger, then why lie about it? Not only did DTJ lie about the reason for the meeting, Kushner didn't disclose the meeting on his security clearance forms and the WH changed its story on the reason for the meeting. All these lies for a nothing burger? 

The Russian story as a hoax by Dems to excuse losing an election seems to be losing air. Flynn, Sessions, Kushner all failing to disclose meetings with Russia, DTJ meeting with Russians. There sure are a lot of Russians involved in this administration. 

Lotta lyin over nuthin.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

Also @DKW 86 can you change the thread to "Who is Colluding with Whom"?

I've given @SaltyTiger a hard time about his grammar, so I wouldn't want him to think I'm just picking on him. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

1 hour ago, GiveEmElle said:

Also @DKW 86 can you change the thread to "Who is Colluding with Whom"?

I've given @SaltyTiger a hard time about his grammar, so I wouldn't want him to think I'm just picking on him. 

Miss Elle, I actually cut and pasted that from another link. Thanks for the heads up, I'll try harder.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

4 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

Miss Elle, I actually cut and pasted that from another link. Thanks for the heads up, I'll try harder.

Thanks for being a good sport! Lol

I try to restrain my inner grammar nazi, but with all this talk of Russians, someone got jealous. 

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

6 hours ago, GiveEmElle said:

 

I've given @SaltyTiger a hard time about his grammar, so I wouldn't want him to think I'm just picking on him. 

damn russians fault that i have lost all self respect. elle, has been beating on me. 

[DKW 86 7,425]

1 hour ago, SaltyTiger said:

damn russians fault that i have lost all self respect. elle, has been beating on me. 

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

12 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

damn russians fault that i have lost all self respect. elle, has been beating on me. 

Looks like you and Trump have something in common, blaming others. 

[homersapien 11,374]

21 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

No, he is a Law Professor giving an educated, enlightened answer to a rare foray into journalistic reality.

You keep trying to attack an argument that no one is making.  

 

[DKW 86 7,425]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

You keep trying to attack an argument that no one is making.  

 

What argument do you think I am attacking?

[homersapien 11,374]

1 hour ago, DKW 86 said:

What argument do you think I am attacking?

That Trump has committed a crime by colluding with the Russians.

[DKW 86 7,425]

3 hours ago, homersapien said:

That Trump has committed a crime by colluding with the Russians.

All I have done is point out that many people in the know say that they have seen no real evidence supporting that. Those people include Feinstein, Waters, members of the Democratic Party.

[GiveEmElle 1,559]

2 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

All I have done is point out that many people in the know say that they have seen no real evidence supporting that. Those people include Feinstein, Waters, members of the Democratic Party.

Up until DTJ realeased his emails, there was no evidence of collusion. The emails prove a willingness to collude. But let's play devils advocate and say that colluding isn't a criminal offense. The fact that the Trump administration has repeatedly denied that anyone within the campaign had had any meetings or dealings with Russia or Russians and repeatedly it's been proven otherwise, Flynn, Session, Kushner, Manafort, and DTJ is why it's a story. Like it or not their are lies pouring out of this White House. That's the reason it's a story. 

[SaltyTiger 7,808]

36 minutes ago, GiveEmElle said:

Up until DTJ realeased his emails, there was no evidence of collusion. The emails prove a willingness to collude. But let's play devils advocate and say that colluding isn't a criminal offense. The fact that the Trump administration has repeatedly denied that anyone within the campaign had had any meetings or dealings with Russia or Russians and repeatedly it's been proven otherwise, Flynn, Session, Kushner, Manafort, and DTJ is why it's a story. Like it or not their are lies pouring out of this White House. That's the reason it's a story. 

I am touched. Wish I could write and use grammar as well you Elle. 

"The fact that the Trump administration" hang them by the neck this Wednesday in public.