Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[toddc 13,194]

Buildings have a builder, paintings have a painter, creation has a Creator ! I’ve never seen the painter or builder but I know by common sense this to be true! DNA is imformation and only an intelligent being can create that. Just wanted to keep the debate going...soooo!

[aujeff11 6,243]

35 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

So hypothetically, you’d be cool with athletes being able to use the practice fields behind the complex to burn American flags, if they so choosed?

I am not cool with that either although I believe protesting by burning is acceptable in its appropriate place. The baptism on campus really isn’t a free speech matter in this case anyway. The question is whether undue religious pressure is being exerted by people with power and influence toward and onto kids. But don’t let me put words in your mouth..

[TexasTiger 12,984]

On 3/22/2018 at 10:10 AM, DAG said:

Not trying to make this into a spiritual warfare but Christianity is anything but private, especially when you think of the early church in the Bible. I like that AU is willing to not be afraid to showcase this. I hope they have the same mindframe for others personal believes as well. Notice I said Christianity , not religion.

How would folks feel if the staff were converting players to Islam in the facility?

[TexasTiger 12,984]

3 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

I respect your view but it looks like the vast majority of posters in the thread disagree with you and Red.

That determines what’s right?

[TexasTiger 12,984]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

The primary disagreement I have with the premise of this topic is that the university/athletic department/football program/coaches are fostering a Christian environment primarily for personal gain. That may be true, but WHAT IF A COACH TRULY BELIEVES THAT BY INTRODUCING HIS/HER PLAYERS TO CHRIST THAT HE/SHE IS HELPING TO SAVE THE PLAYERS' SOULS FOR ETERNITY? If the coach is truly a Christian then he/she is obligated to share his/her faith. Whether you believe that God is real or not, if you look at the actions of the coaches for that standpoint that THEY believe God is real, then you may understand their actions a little better.

Do it after work away from the workplace.

[TexasTiger 12,984]

59 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

I’m not sure how my insistence on a bigger wall between AU Athletics and religion has turned into to me being anti-religion.  Talk about missing the point.  Anyways, carry on.

Some folks are too emotional to reason and can’t follow argument.

[aujeff11 6,243]

8 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

How would folks feel if the staff were converting players to Islam in the facility?

I would feel there is a true top-down exertion  of influence. The key is whether it’s top-down. If it’s student led, kids are going to be kids and “unacceptable behavior” is really nothing unacceptable at all. I can see why this is on the football forum though. That liberal bastion of a political thread would be nothing more than preaching to the choir with this conversation.

[TexasTiger 12,984]

1 minute ago, aujeff11 said:

I would feel there is a true top-down exertion  of influence. The key is whether it’s top-down. If it’s student led, kids are going to be kids and “unacceptable behavior” is really nothing unacceptable at all. I can see why this is on the football forum though. That liberal bastion of a political thread would be nothing more than preaching to the choir with this conversation.

What if Muslim players were converting others in the facility, engaging in a comparable religious practice with the University’s blessing?

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

What if Muslim players were converting others in the facility, engaging in a comparable religious practice with the University’s blessing?

Islam isn’t my enemy. I’d be more concerned if the University didn’t bless it. 

[TexasTiger 12,984]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

Islam isn’t my enemy. I’d be more concerned if the University didn’t bless it. 

So you’re saying the issue for you is consistency?

[gr82be 14,452]

54 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Also, because the atheists don’t have chaplains, they’d be offended.

A little misdirection from your point which is very true but how can people be offended by something they don't believe in? I have never understood that. I mean, I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster but if I were at the lake and people were assembling to catch a glimpse I wouldn't be offended, heck I might watch too. Then if I was persuaded by what I saw or learned I might become a believer too. 

[TexasTiger 12,984]

Just now, gr82be said:

A little misdirection from your point which is very true but how can people be offended by something they don't believe in? I have never understood that. I mean, I don't believe in the Loch Ness Monster but if I were at the lake and people were assembling to catch a glimpse I wouldn't be offended, heck iight watch too. Then if I was persuaded by what I saw or learned I might become a believer too. 

Do you truly think Nessie is an accurate analogy to religion?

[aujeff11 6,243]

4 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

So you’re saying the issue for you is consistency?

All I’m saying is there may not be top/ down exertion of influence even if the real actors in power are known Christians. 

Religion for play/ favor, sex for favor/play( softball) are the real issues.

[gr82be 14,452]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

Do you truly think Nessie is an accurate analogy to religion?

No, I said it was a misdirection. 

[TexasTiger 12,984]

Just now, aujeff11 said:

All I’m saying is there may not be top/ down exertion of influence even if the real actors in power are known Christians. 

Religion for play/ favor, sex for favor/play( softball are the real issues.

And you truly don’t think there’s influence from the last two head coaches?

[DAG 34,003]

23 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

How would folks feel if the staff were converting players to Islam in the facility?

Doesn’t matter how folks feel. If it is within their rights, it’s within their rights. I would have zero problem with it as long as it wasn’t breaking any laws. Pretty simple. You don’t have to agree with it or support it, but to censor it based on your own personal beliefs is wrong .

[TexasTiger 12,984]

1 minute ago, gr82be said:

No, I said it was a misdirection. 

But you drew that analogy. I agree that some atheists are unduly strident, but they do often hear they are condemned for eternity. Many religious folks are hardly neutral toward atheists.

[TexasTiger 12,984]

2 minutes ago, DAG said:

Doesn’t matter how folks feel. If it is within their rights, it’s within their rights. I would have zero problem with it as long as it wasn’t breaking any laws. Pretty simple. You don’t have to agree with it or support it, but to censor it based on your own personal beliefs is wrong .

Is it within their rights to convert during work time?

[DAG 34,003]

1 minute ago, TexasTiger said:

On work time?

What do you mean by Work time? These are salary guys .Not 9-5. If I am a head coach and a guy comes up to me saying they want to be baptized while I am in my office. I am going to find the chaplain or the a person of interest to see if I can oblige this person. I am a nurse practitioner . I don’t get paid to give spiritual advice, but if one of my patients asked for spiritual council, I absolutely , on work time, can put in a consult to make it happen. Now that is vastly different then me imposing my faith and beliefs on someone while I am caring for them. Now if a guy comes up to me during practice and say I want to get baptized am I going to stop practice ? No. But I don’t see any issue in finding the resource needed as soon as possible  afterwards to make it happen. DeAndre Hopkins of clemson actually had a situation similar to this where he was baptized right after practice. 

[Barnacle 9,064]

3 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Is it within their rights to convert during work time?

At this point you would have to define convert. What type of conduct and or speech constitutes converting? Overt speech? Like, "You should consider giving your life to God, etc..." or any speech concerning your faith like, "God answered a prayer yesterday...I'm praying for you...God is good", etc. 

Curious where you think the line should be drawn. Performing religious ceremony/ritual would be a clear line, for example. Would you want it to extend past that?

[TexasTiger 12,984]

1 minute ago, Barnacle said:

At this point you would have to define convert. What type of conduct and or speech constitutes converting? Overt speech? Like, "You should consider giving your life to God, etc..." or any speech concerning your faith like, "God answered a prayer yesterday...I'm praying for you...God is good", etc. 

Curious where you think the line should be drawn. Performing religious ceremony/ritual would be a clear line, for example. Would you want it to extend past that?

Religious ceremony/ritual, certainly. I think there’s a difference in saying “You should...” and answering honestly about the role of faith in your own life if the conversation organically goes there.

[aujeff11 6,243]

17 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Is it within their rights to convert during work time?

There are lounge areas, pool tables, etc. If they have enough time to play games, and do baptisms in the athletic facilities, there is enough time to pray, do devotions, and witness without the players interfering with work. Should they do it elsewhere,sure, but don’t think it should be banned per se. 

 

21 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

And you truly don’t think there’s influence from the last two head coaches?

Not that I know of. Dabo is openly Christian. I don’t know enough to form an opinion that he is pressuring his kids to take his religion. He may take his core values which are in line with the Bible (such as honesty) and expect his players to reciprocate but that’s hardly forcing a religion on anybody. 

[TitanTiger 20,508]

1 hour ago, selias said:

Evolutionary biology is a well-tested and documented scientific theory that has no need for a supreme creator. To me, inserting a divine entity into the process is an attempt to find external validation for human existence.

Evolutionary biology explains how we got from the first living thing to all the living things we have now.  It has no explanation, scientific or otherwise, for how we got from nothing to something.  To me, believing that things just poofed themselves into existence with no external cause (or that that external cause had no cause to it) is an attempt to cling to naturalism by faith rather than reason or science.

[TexasTiger 12,984]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

What do you mean by Work time? These are salary guys .Not 9-5. If I am a head coach and a guy comes up to me saying they want to be baptized while I am in my office. I am going to find the chaplain or the a person of interest to see if I can oblige this person. I am a nurse practitioner . I don’t get paid to give spiritual advice, but if one of my patients asked for spiritual council, I absolutely , on work time, can put in a consult to make it happen. Now that is vastly different then me imposing my faith and beliefs on someone while I am caring for them. Now if a guy comes up to me during practice and say I want to get baptized am I going to stop practice ? No. But I don’t see any issue in finding the resource needed as soon as possible  afterwards to make it happen. DeAndre Hopkins of clemson actually had a situation similar to this where he was baptized right after practice. 

If someone tells you they want to be baptized why not connect them to a church? If they say they want their teeth cleaned are you going to bring in a hygienist? I’m not saying the two are identical, but they each are things people can choose and neither typically happens in a state owned workplace.

[aujeff11 6,243]

20 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

But you drew that analogy. I agree that some atheists are unduly strident, but they do often hear they are condemned for eternity. Many religious folks are hardly neutral toward atheists.

It was a joke. The point is all chaplains aren’t examples of “inappropriate behavior” just because not all groups and belief systems are afforded a chaplain particular to their faith. That would be a tough thing to afford for hospitals in particular which already rely on volunteer chaplains.