Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[TitanTiger 20,482]

58 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Seems we have spent a lot of time today over a problem that no one has shown to actually exist. 

Pretty much.  Tons of suggestion, innuendo or outright assumption.  Nothing of substance.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

4 hours ago, RunInRed said:

No, I used an old article to show the controversy surrounding Chette's involvement in Athletics is nothing new.

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2015/08/organization_asks_auburn_to_re.html

 

The "controversy" was a bunch of salacious sounding nothing from Selena Roberts.  She basically said "Chette seems to be well off and Lowder donated money to his charity so I think we can all surmise it's totally shady, amirite?"

Oh, and lulz at the FFRF.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

6 hours ago, RunInRed said:

Pretty sure Kodi reacting in an official capacity ...

 

Why are you "pretty sure?"

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

5 hours ago, RunInRed said:

I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics.

Well at least you finally exposed your real opinion contrary to your original statement that you keep your religious views personal and private. Fine but in turn I say that's a pathetic comment.

[AUFAN78 3,895]

22 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Pretty much.  Tons of suggestion, innuendo or outright assumption.  Nothing of substance.

Got to be a first.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

5 hours ago, RunInRed said:

And btw you and others won’t say it but the answer to the above is no, no you wouldn’t be OK with Islam as a dominant religion within the program bc it isn’t *your* religion.

Baloney. I wouldn't be happy with Islam because it is not a peaceful, tolerant religion. They want to impose Sharia law and kill the infidels......i.e. you and me.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

5 hours ago, Mikey said:

Ok, let me say right off the top that I am not a religious person. Personally, I wouldn't care about this specific case one way or the other. However, there have been times over the past several years when I have wondered what I would do if I were a highly recruited high school athlete.  Would I fit in on the Auburn football team? As much as I love Auburn University, I'd have to take several second looks and evaluate the situation up-close and personal before I signed with Auburn. Not sure I'd be comfortable in an environment where religion is such a big part of everyday happenings.

But a lot of guys have come to AU for that very reason and because their Mommas and Daddys like it. Black folks tend to be more open with their religious beliefs and look at what % of our players are black.

[gr82be 14,425]

4 hours ago, RunInRed said:

Here's a question:  Do you think a Jewish person, Muslim or non-believer would be comfortable on Auburn's Football team?

Maybe ask Bruce Pearl if he is comfortable coaching Christian players? 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

36 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

The "controversy" was a bunch of salacious sounding nothing from Selena Roberts.  She basically said "Chette seems to be well off and Lowder donated money to his charity so I think we can all surmise it's totally shady, amirite?"

Oh, and lulz at the FFRF.

LOL and you forgot to say she is a bammer.

[RunInRed 16,409]

At the end of the day, I'll proudly go on record and say I think this is wrong; it bothers me, it always has -- not that these kids have immersed themselves in religion - good for them -- but that AU is clearly sponsoring/endorsing/promoting a particular religion within the athletics program.  And worse, they do it under the guise of "voluntary" ... "yeah, but Chette isn't paid by Athletics" ... blah blah.  As if we're stupid.

/rant.

My apologies for the thread, no disrespect meant to any one ... but I feel passionately about this and think it's a worthy discussion. 

[TitanTiger 20,482]

3 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

And worse,  they do it under the guise of "voluntary"

You have a right to your feelings on the other matters, but I question this part.  To what would you point to suggest that it isn't voluntary?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

2 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

At the end of the day, I'll proudly go on record that I think this is wrong; it bothers me, it always has -- not that these kids have immersed themselves in religion - good for them -- but that AU is clearing sponsoring/endorsing/promoting a particular religion within the athletics program.   And worse,  they do it under the guise of "voluntary" ... "yeah, but Chette isn't paid by Athletics" ... blah blah.  As if we're stupid.

/rant.

My apologies for the thread, no disrespect meant to any one ... but I feel passionately about this and think it's a worthy discussion. 

I respect you opinion but feel totally different as seems to be the case wit the majority of posters who have participated in the discussion.

[RunInRed 16,409]

Let me also add, I talked to Todd Van Emst today via phone ... who was there taking photos (you can see him in the social media vids in the OP).  I had originally reached out requesting any "official" photos from the event.  His response was quite telling ... saying he had photos but was not authorized to release yet until "he talked to a few people and obtained approvals."  That right there is so very telling ... AU knows this has the potential to be controversial and not viewed as on the up-and-up.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

8 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

Hypothetical alert:  So let's say someone in our athletic department happens to practice Santeria (there's a case happening in San Antonio right now).  In that religion, animal sacrifice is still practiced and protected by U.S. law via Supreme Court ruling in Church of the Lukumi Babalu Aye v City of Hialeah.  This is a happy occasion religious ceremony that wouldn't actually harm someone, much like baptism.  Should that be allowed inside the walls of the athletic department as well?

My point becomes, when you open it up to one, you open it up to all.  If you're willing to take the good with the bad, the common with the uncommon, then I'm on your side.  But I'm highly skeptical of that being the case in the long run, so it becomes a simpler solution to just move locations off of a publicly funded campus.

Good case, but I disagree with your assessment of it. Did you read the actual opinion, including the concurrences? 

[RunInRed 16,409]

7 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

You have a right to your feelings on the other matter, but I question this part.  To what would you point to suggest that it isn't voluntary?

Admittedly, it's part my opinion and part anecdotal. But I do know peer pressure is real.  I also know 18-22 year olds are very impressionable and even incentivized to garner favor with their coaches.  When I put all this together with the facts that the infrastructure and apparatus around all this clearly comes top-down, I feel on stable ground with my conclusions.

Legally and by hard evidence, yes, this is voluntary.  Then again, so are summer workouts.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

9 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Let me also add, I talked to Todd Van Emst today via phone ... who was there taking photos (you can see him in the social media vids in the OP).  I had originally reached out requesting any "official" photos from the event.  His response was quite telling ... saying he had photos but was not authorized to release yet until "he talked to a few people and obtained approvals."  That right there is so very telling ... AU knows this has the potential to be controversial and not viewed as on the up-and-up.

That's crap.  If there was any problem of that sort, they wouldn't have released any of the photos.  Your biases are making you jump to conclusions.

What is more likely is that the players have to sign a release for any personal photos that are not part of them participating in an official team activity and he hasn't gotten those waivers yet.

[RunInRed 16,409]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

That's crap.  If there was any problem of that sort, they wouldn't have released any of the photos.  Your biases are making you jump to conclusions.

What is more likely is that the players have to sign a release for any personal photos that are not part of them participating in an official team activity and he hasn't gotten those waivers yet.

Dude, I talked to TVE just a few hours ago.  What I posted was his words ... for word.  He said nothing about player releases.  To the contrary, he specifically referenced past situations around this pointing him towards caution and wanting to talk to higher ups and getting approvals before distributing.

And just so we're clear, AU didn't release any photos, players posted to social media.

Call it crap if you want or if you want his number, shoot me a DM.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Just now, RunInRed said:

Dude, I talked to TVE just a few hours ago.  What I posted was his words ... for word.  He said nothing about player releases.  To the contrary, he specifically referenced past situations around this pointing him towards caution and wanting to talk to higher ups and getting approvals before distributing.

And just so we're clear, AU didn't release any photos, players posted to social media.

Call it crap if you want or if you want his number, shoot me a DM.

I didn't say his words aren't what you said they are, I'm saying your take on them is off.  

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

10 minutes ago, RunInRed said:

Let me also add, I talked to Todd Van Emst today via phone ... who was there taking photos (you can see him in the social media vids in the OP).  I had originally reached out requesting any "official" photos from the event.  His response was quite telling ... saying he had photos but was not authorized to release yet until "he talked to a few people and obtained approvals."  That right there is so very telling ... AU knows this has the potential to be controversial and not viewed as on the up-and-up.

I haven't parsed through all of the comments, but what is your primary concern? There's no indication that such gatherings are mandatory nor is there any indication of reprimand for players who do not attend. Even if such gatherings were restricted irrespective of the absence of a mandate or reprimand, where would the line be drawn as it pertains to other things, i.e., prayers at mid-field (before and after the game), prayers in locker room, devotionals, etc.? 

I find it immensely tenuous to hold, in this instance, that this qualifies as an establishment of a state church that the Framers prohibited. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

19 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Good case, but I disagree with your assessment of it. Did you read the actual opinion, including the concurrences? 

Not all of it, but primarily know a key argument against upholding the Florida ordinance was that restrictions could be placed via other avenues such as proper disposal of animal product.

[RunInRed 16,409]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I haven't parsed through all of the comments, but what is your primary concern? There's no indication that such gatherings are mandatory nor is there any indication of reprimand for players who do not attend. Even if such gatherings were restricted irrespective of the absence of a mandate or reprimand, where would the line be drawn as it pertains to other things, i.e., prayers at mid-field (before and after the game), prayers in locker room, devotionals, etc.? 

I find it immensely tenuous to hold, in this instance, that this qualifies as an establishment of a state church that the Framers prohibited. 

Let me ask you a question, do you believe summer workouts are voluntary?

[RunInRed 16,409]

8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I didn't say his words aren't what you said they are, I'm saying your take on them is off.  

We can agree to disagree.  

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

1 minute ago, RunInRed said:

Let me ask you a question, do you believe summer workouts are voluntary?

No.

[aujeff11 6,243]

15 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

No.

Voluntary summer workouts aren’t voluntary. They’re well organized to help the players acclimate and prepare for the fall.  The NCAA even allowed the schools roughly 8 hours a week to monitor the workouts because they knew there was nothing voluntary about them. At least, then, we could see the involuntary workout and call it for what it was. With Bro Chette and the coaches, I’ve yet to see proof that the coaches are imposing their religion on their players. Comparing the two is apples and oranges. 

[selias 2,398]

2 hours ago, AU64 said:

Seems we have spent a lot of time today over a problem that no one has shown to actually exist.  that there are players being pressured against their will....without any indication that such is happening.   

T

Really? I found it to be an interesting thread even though I disagree with most of you regarding religion. I like interesting discussions.