Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[lionheartkc 6,150]

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be a prevailing thought that Auburn is somehow overstepping, here's a short list of college teams that have chaplains (all of whom a secular group tried to have removed by filing a lawsuit)

Auburn University
University of Georgia
University of South Carolina
Mississippi State University
University of Alabama (yes, even Saban has a chaplain... though they were the last to add one in the SEC, according to what I was told)
University of Tennessee
Louisiana State University
University of Missouri
University of Washington
Georgia Tech
University of Illinois
Florida State University
University of Mississippi
University of Wisconsin
Clemson University

Clemson once baptized a player at practice
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clemson-wr-deandre-hopkins-baptized-at-practice-sets-school-receiving-record-two-days-later/

 

[Mikey 16,600]

9 minutes ago, AU64 said:

It's interesting to me that some anti-religious people seem very evangelical about their views, eager to push them on others and not particularly respectful of those who have religious feeling......more so than how the typical religious person might react to them...ironic isn't it?     I still think that in 1784 John Wesley gave his followers to Georgia the right advice....:Offer them Christ"  ...emphasis on "offer".....

 

I have encountered people with extreme intolerance from both ends of the spectrum. There are "evangelical" Atheists as well as Christians. Since the subject of religion doesn't interest me anyway I find it easy to simply ignore the pushy sorts of people, change the subject or just walk away.

[Mikey 16,600]

12 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be a prevailing thought that Auburn is somehow overstepping, here's a short list of college teams that have chaplains (all of whom a secular group tried to have removed by filing a lawsuit)

Auburn University
University of Georgia
University of South Carolina
Mississippi State University
University of Alabama (yes, even Saban has a chaplain... though they were the last to add one in the SEC, according to what I was told)
University of Tennessee
Louisiana State University
University of Missouri
University of Washington
Georgia Tech
University of Illinois
Florida State University
University of Mississippi
University of Wisconsin
Clemson University

Clemson once baptized a player at practice
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clemson-wr-deandre-hopkins-baptized-at-practice-sets-school-receiving-record-two-days-later/

 

I didn't think it was an exclusively Auburn thing. The only name I find surprising in the above list is the U. of Washington. Didn't think a west coast school would allow such.

You know, I really don't believe Auburn is off-course with the way they are doing things. It suits most of the student body and their parents. It's just that some people won't find it to their liking and that aspect should be handled appropriately. One would have to be there on the scene to know if appropriate handling is the case or not.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I have encountered people with extreme intolerance from both ends of the spectrum. There are "evangelical" Atheists as well as Christians. Since the subject of religion doesn't interest me anyway I find it easy to simply ignore the pushy sorts of people, change the subject or just walk away.

The reality is that VERY few people are not religious. A huge amount of people who claim to be non-religious are actually religious about their lack of religion. I know people who are members of "secular" groups who are more organized, spew more propaganda, and practice much more indoctrination that any church I've encountered. One woman I know is an active part of a "free thought" group that literally has indoctrination camps for kids that teach, among other things, that Christians are bad people.

The bulk of college campuses have really become secular churches who's message is that "the majority", no matter what it may be, is evil and must be beat down so that the minority can thrive. Professors preach the message from behind their podiums, fringe groups disrupt anything that hints at not being part of their agenda, and rule are created to insure this is the status quo.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

9 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I didn't think it was an exclusively Auburn thing. The only name I find surprising in the above list is the U. of Washington. Didn't think a west coast school would allow such.

You know, I really don't believe Auburn is off-course with the way they are doing things. It suits most of the student body and their parents. It's just that some people won't find it to their liking and that aspect should be handled appropriately. One would have to be there on the scene to know if appropriate handling is the case or not.

Exactly and the original poster wasn't and hence we have a 9 page thread with NO ONE who was. But aside from that little fact, it has been a good discussion that I enjoyed. People expressed their oinions and no one got mad. As it always should be.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

People expressed their opinions and no one got mad. As it always should be.

Hear! Hear!

[Tiger 8,826]

There are religious people and non religious people and also those who are anti-religion. 

For me personally, I have no problem whatsoever with any of those groups UNLESS religion is being used as a tool to excuse being hateful or harmful towards ANY other person/group of people. It becomes unacceptable to me once it crosses that line. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

9 minutes ago, Tiger said:

There are religious people and non religious people and also those who are anti-religion. 

For me personally, I have no problem whatsoever with any of those groups UNLESS religion is being used as a tool to excuse being hateful or harmful towards ANY other person/group of people. It becomes unacceptable to me once it crosses that line. 

I have problems with religious people who believe that everyone else MUST believe what they do and I have problems with anti-religious people because, by the nature of being "anti" anything, they believe that everyone else MUST believe what they do. 

I'm a fan of people who believe what they do, celebrate others who share their beliefs, are welcoming and cordial to others who don't, and generally mind their own business unless someone is getting hurt

[keesler 5,924]

41 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be a prevailing thought that Auburn is somehow overstepping, here's a short list of college teams that have chaplains (all of whom a secular group tried to have removed by filing a lawsuit)

Auburn University
University of Georgia
University of South Carolina
Mississippi State University
University of Alabama (yes, even Saban has a chaplain... though they were the last to add one in the SEC, according to what I was told)
University of Tennessee
Louisiana State University
University of Missouri
University of Washington
Georgia Tech
University of Illinois
Florida State University
University of Mississippi
University of Wisconsin
Clemson University

Clemson once baptized a player at practice
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clemson-wr-deandre-hopkins-baptized-at-practice-sets-school-receiving-record-two-days-later/

 

I'm surprised they were the last to bring on a chaplain, Jeremiah Castille has been on staff as chaplain for probably as long at Chette has been here, 20 yrs or more.  And Saban also added his priest Father Holloway as a chaplain yrs ago as well.   

[lionheartkc 6,150]

1 minute ago, keesler said:

I'm surprised they were the last to bring on a chaplain, Jeremiah Castille has been on staff as chaplain for probably as long at Chette has been here, 20 yrs or more.  And Saban also added his priest Father Holloway as a chaplain yrs ago as well.   

Could be. I'm just repeating what I was told back in, let's say, around 2003 or 2004. I do know that Saban feels that having a chaplain is very important and there have been articles written about that.

[alexava 6,973]

56 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Just throwing this out there, since there seems to be a prevailing thought that Auburn is somehow overstepping, here's a short list of college teams that have chaplains (all of whom a secular group tried to have removed by filing a lawsuit)

Auburn University
University of Georgia
University of South Carolina
Mississippi State University
University of Alabama (yes, even Saban has a chaplain... though they were the last to add one in the SEC, according to what I was told)
University of Tennessee
Louisiana State University
University of Missouri
University of Washington
Georgia Tech
University of Illinois
Florida State University
University of Mississippi
University of Wisconsin
Clemson University

Clemson once baptized a player at practice
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/clemson-wr-deandre-hopkins-baptized-at-practice-sets-school-receiving-record-two-days-later/

 

Chizik added one at Iowa st. He told of the resistance to it in his book. No idea if they kept it. 

[gr82be 14,425]

6 minutes ago, Mikey said:

I have encountered people with extreme intolerance from both ends of the spectrum. There are "evangelical" Atheists as well as Christians. Since the subject of religion doesn't interest me anyway I find it easy to simply ignore the pushy sorts of people, change the subject or just walk away.

Christian faith and religion do not necessarily have to exist together. Religion is simply organized faith  but we all have seen public misrepresentation under the guise of religion. As the saying goes, "sitting in a church doesn't make you a Christian any more that sitting in a garage makes you a car". Personally I like a church that welcomes anyone who wants to visit, that prays for the ones who choose to remain and also the ones who choose to walk away. The ones that let their actions to in the community do their talking for them. 

[lionheartkc 6,150]

5 minutes ago, alexava said:

Chizik added one at Iowa st. He told of the resistance to it in his book. No idea if they kept it. 

Yea. I'm sure there are more. I just grabbed the first list I could find which were the plaintiffs in the lawsuit filed back in 2015.

[Tiger 8,826]

7 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

I have problems with religious people who believe that everyone else MUST believe what they do and I have problems with anti-religious people because, by the nature of being "anti" anything, they believe that everyone else MUST believe what they do. 

I'm a fan of people who believe what they do, celebrate others who share their beliefs, are welcoming and cordial to others who don't, and generally mind their own business unless someone is getting hurt

Good call. I forgot to mention that part. 100% agree. Well said. 

[keesler 5,924]

4 minutes ago, lionheartkc said:

Could be. I'm just repeating what I was told back in, let's say, around 2003 or 2004.

Jeremiah has been the official team chaplain on staff for longer than that.  But prior to that, Stallings had Pastor Albriecht and Curry brought in various clergymen from the area in his era as well.  Team chaplains are a common practice.  

The point being, that there has been a chaplain officiating at UA just a long if not longer that Chette Williams has been on staff at AU.  And IMHO neither program has suffered in the least from having a man of God ministering and providing counsel to the young men and coaches that have passed through the doors.  

I would much rather see threads with our young student-athletes accepting Christ and professing their faith than see the alternative headlines we see in abundance when these kids go astray.  I despise threads that go on and on about our players (White/Pettway) where people rant on and on about issues they know absolutely nothing about, with the only info they get about those guys are what they read on-line.

War Eagle to these young men, may their walk with Christ guide their lives forever!

 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 3/22/2018 at 9:58 AM, RunInRed said:

Maybe (probably) it's just me, or my tilt to religion being a personal and private thing, but I've always been disturbed how Auburn Athletics injects it into the fabric of everything they do.  I get that it plays well in this part of the country but at the end of the day, we're a public university, not Liberty, BYU or Brandeis.

FWIW....... but most of the college's have this. Even uat. And it isn't mandatory or pushed by anyone at AU. 

[DAG 33,983]

1 hour ago, Tiger said:

While not my personal style, I'm ok with this as long as there is no exclusion of any kind in relation to this (down to players of other faiths wanting to do similar things within their own religion) or any favoritism shown towards players due to their beliefs. 

But I do get what @Mikeyand @RunInRed are alluding to.

Bruce Pearl has been Jewish his entire life and has never been shy about that. But now he's saying he's a hybrid Jew-Christian since he came to AU (https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/bruce-pearl-says-a-lot-of-things/2018/03/14/dbafdcaa-2795-11e8-b79d-f3d931db7f68_story.html). I personally think that Bruce, being a master in PR, knows it is to his benefit to engage with the Christian portion of the AU fanbase. I mean there's a reason at our football coaches press conferences announcing their hirings their faith is always mentioned. While no, there is no overt Christian shadow over AU it's presence is certainly felt. I totally see how someone who did not grow up in a Christian home could feel excluded or like an outsider, for lack of a better term (I think "outsider" is too harsh), at AU. 

I am agnostic, but I grew up in a non-practicing Muslim household [extended family, however, does practice -- prayer 5x a day, etc] (by the way, anyone, feel free to ask any questions about Islam -- I will be happy to provide real answers about the religion rather than some of the wild misrepresentation of so many people by the awful things a handful do fed to us by the media), and when I visited and got to Auburn I definitely noticed the heavier emphasis on religion than say in my high school in North Carolina. No it didn't do AU favors for me when choosing a school but it didn't deter me either, I loved many other aspects of AU which outweighed my "eh" feeling towards the heavier emphasis on religion. 

 

Being a Jewish Christian has happened since the start of Jesus ministry. That is why I am so confused as to why this concept is so hard to grasp. The first Christians were Jewish people, with a Jewish heritage, who followed the Torah word by word. Then Jesus came and turned the world upside down and said the law (Torah) is good because it shows you SIN, but it is also fallible because people thought by following it would make them good with God. Wrong. Only through him can they be good with God, which is what the whole sermon of the mount is all about. You have heard this.....(From the law), but I tell you....(Jesus completing the intended purpose).

 

The only difference is those who followed him eventually got the title " Christians " and those who refused to believe in the resurrection are not titled "Christians." Both groups are still Jewish. You don't lose your Jewish heritage or principles by choosing to have faith in the resurrection. That is why I am almost kicking myself for falling into this trap because the person who started this thread, although with good intentions, has such a limited knowledge of even the basics of religious concepts and it showed in his very first post. Being a Jewish Christian was very normal by early church standards. What was not normal and caused a heated debate with early Christians was the concept of a Gentile Christian (US). Enough New Testament history for the day.

[keesler 5,924]

No one's pushing religion, Christianity, Catholicism, Judaism, Buddhism, Episcopalian, Atheism, Mormonism, Muslim, or any other faith on our players.  Church attendance, bible study, vacation bible school, participation in prayer are not mandatory.   

The Christian religion may seem pronounced at AU and God may seem to be at the forefront of the university, because we follow Auburn and we see it in the fabric of the school.  I doubt outsiders see it at all.

I have no idea if other schools operate under a heavy faith based ideal at their core.  I do recall the UAT QB strongly professing his faith on TV after the championship game and he even mentioned his speaking in tongues and talking to God to get him through the 2nd half of that game.  He gave all the praise & glory to God, and even mentioned that his family may not agree with his public praise, but he did it anyway - it came from his heart.  Did his actions damage Alabama?   Tim Tebow was very pronounced and public with his faith and religion, wore scripture and bible verses on his face & arms in games and he very visibly demonstrated his religion, did it damage Florida? 

[TigerOne 1,142]

1 hour ago, lionheartkc said:

Could be. I'm just repeating what I was told back in, let's say, around 2003 or 2004. I do know that Saban feels that having a chaplain is very important and there have been articles written about that.

he probably feels that since he is god among the updyke cult that he needs to have an actual chaplain as a buffer

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

[Tiger 8,826]

24 minutes ago, DAG said:

Being a Jewish Christian has happened since the start of Jesus ministry. That is why I am so confused as to why this concept is so hard to grasp. The first Christians were Jewish people, with a Jewish heritage, who followed the Torah word by word. Then Jesus came and turned the world upside down and said the law (Torah) is good because it shows you SIN, but it is also fallible because people thought by following it would make them good with God. Wrong. Only through him can they be good with God, which is what the whole sermon of the mount is all about. You have heard this.....(From the law), but I tell you....(Jesus completing the intended purpose).

 

The only difference is those who followed him eventually got the title " Christians " and those who refused to believe in the resurrection are not titled "Christians." Both groups are still Jewish. You don't lose your Jewish heritage or principles by choosing to have faith in the resurrection. That is why I am almost kicking myself for falling into this trap because the person who started this thread, although with good intentions, has such a limited knowledge of even the basics of religious concepts and it showed in his very first post. Being a Jewish Christian was very normal by early church standards. What was not normal and caused a heated debate with early Christians was the concept of a Gentile Christian (US). Enough New Testament history for the day.

I truly appreciate this insight but maybe I'm just a skeptic when it comes to Bruce regarding this matter. After X many years in the spotlight and always making sure you know that hes a "Jewish boy from Boston" and now all of a sudden he's a Jewish-Christian hybrid. He's a heck of a salesman and he knows with a strong Christian community in Auburn that it is to his advantage to embrace that faction of the AUFamily and say he's now a hybrid  -- especially because he's building something. I just think that is part of his marketing plan -- and I'm not disputing what you said or it's validity I just think when it comes to Bruce I don't think he's talking about the literal history. JMO

But to your post, where do the Black Hebrew Israelites enter the picture? I am ignorant on this topic but have seen people of this faith try to dispute the Torah and site the Bible while claiming to be the "real and original Jewish people" which confuses me. Now, as I said I am ignorant on this so if I've gathered my information from the wrong places by all means call me out. An old friend of mine has converted and takes the faith's teachings rather literally (to a fault in my opinion -- ranging from not even making a sandwich on Saturdays before sundown because it's constituted as "work" to being hateful towards non-believers) so he may not be the best source.

[aujeff11 6,243]

59 minutes ago, DAG said:

Being a Jewish Christian has happened since the start of Jesus ministry. That is why I am so confused as to why this concept is so hard to grasp. The first Christians were Jewish people, with a Jewish heritage, who followed the Torah word by word. Then Jesus came and turned the world upside down and said the law (Torah) is good because it shows you SIN, but it is also fallible because people thought by following it would make them good with God. Wrong. Only through him can they be good with God, which is what the whole sermon of the mount is all about. You have heard this.....(From the law), but I tell you....(Jesus completing the intended purpose).

 

The only difference is those who followed him eventually got the title " Christians " and those who refused to believe in the resurrection are not titled "Christians." Both groups are still Jewish. You don't lose your Jewish heritage or principles by choosing to have faith in the resurrection. That is why I am almost kicking myself for falling into this trap because the person who started this thread, although with good intentions, has such a limited knowledge of even the basics of religious concepts and it showed in his very first post. Being a Jewish Christian was very normal by early church standards. What was not normal and caused a heated debate with early Christians was the concept of a Gentile Christian (US). Enough New Testament history for the day.

Being a Jewish Christian is very unnatural imo. They are the most similar of all the religions but there are stark differences which forces the choosing of one and another. How can a Jew recognize Jesus as maybe a great prophet but a Christian recognize Jesus as the messiah? How can that coexist? Yes,  I know in new- age thinking there are now Christian Atheists, but eschew that garbage millennial thinking and there are conflicting points of the belief system which forces one to align with one or the other. 

 

Or how can a Jewish Christian only recognize the Old Testament when most Christians believe the New Testament as a part of the fulfillment of the Old Testament?

[TitanTiger 20,482]

5 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Being a Jewish Christian is very unnatural imo. They are the most similar of all the religions but there are stark differences which forces the choosing of one and another. How can a Jew recognize Jesus as maybe a great prophet but a Christian recognize Jesus as the messiah? How can that coexist?

Or how can a Jewish Christian only recognize the Old Testament when most Christians believe the New Testament as a part of the fulfillment of the Old Testament?

A Jewish Christian would be (a Jew, either by birth or by religion) who now believes that what Christians call the "Old Testament" was pointing to Jesus the entire time.  It's what the Law, the Prophets and everything there was moving toward and that Jesus is the Messiah that all of the OT longs for, but in a fuller way than even the Jews of that era even imagined.  So while they have "chosen" in one sense to be Christian, from their point of view they didn't ditch their Jewishness in the process.  They see their faith in Christ as the fulfillment of everything the Jewish Law and Prophets proclaimed.

[lionheartkc 6,150]

14 minutes ago, aujeff11 said:

Being a Jewish Christian is very unnatural imo. They are the most similar of all the religions but there are stark differences which forces the choosing of one and another. How can a Jew recognize Jesus as maybe a great prophet but a Christian recognize Jesus as the messiah? How can that coexist? Yes,  I know in new- age thinking there are now Christian Atheists, but eschew that garbage millennial thinking and there are conflicting points of the belief system which forces one to align with one or the other. 

 

Or how can a Jewish Christian only recognize the Old Testament when most Christians believe the New Testament as a part of the fulfillment of the Old Testament?

Hope this helps... https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianic-judaism/

[aujeff11 6,243]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

A Jewish Christian would be (a Jew, either by birth or by religion) who now believes that what Christians call the "Old Testament" was pointing to Jesus the entire time.  It's what the Law, the Prophets and everything there was moving toward and that Jesus is the Messiah that all of the OT longs for, but in a fuller way than even the Jews of that era even imagined.  So while they have "chosen" in one sense to be Christian, from their point of view they didn't ditch their Jewishness in the process.  They see their faith in Christ as the fulfillment of everything the Jewish Law and Prophets proclaimed.

 Could’ve sworn thatJudaism strongly believes that Jesus wasn’t God in flesh. So I’m guessing Jewish Christians actually believe that Jesus was? I don’t see how such sharp points of differences can peacefully align. I can see how Christians were born from Jewish Heritage but I don’t know that I’d call myself a Jewish Christian..