TitanTiger 20,482 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Could’ve sworn that Judaism strongly believes that Jesus wasn’t God in flesh. Nothing in the Torah or the Prophets or any other part of the Jewish Scriptures say that. So what it comes down to is that from 2000 years ago until now, you have disagreement on whether Jesus is the Messiah that their prophets foretold of or not. Some of the Jews of that day believe he was and that continues to this day. Others don't. So if you were a religiously observant Jew, and you came to be convinced that Jesus was actually the Messiah that the Jewish prophets foretold of, why couldn't you, in that sense, see yourself as a Jewish Christian? You see Jesus as the fulfillment or completion of the religion you've been practicing the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuburnNTexas 7,148 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 To me individuals doing a Baptism on campus are exercising Freedom of Speech. If burning the American flag can be considered Freedom of Speech then having a Baptism on Campus is the same thing. As long as other groups are allowed to use the same facility for their own purpose be it Muslim's setting up their prayer rugs facing Mecca and praying or atheists being allowed to setup a table and espouse their atheist views there should be no issue. To me the only time it would be an issue is if somebody in a position of power required somebody to attend. As a person who believes in a strict interpretation of the Constitution based on the writings of the people who wrote and approved the Constitution. Separation of Church and State was only meant to ensure that there was no national religion that was forced on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,983 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 39 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: Being a Jewish Christian is very unnatural imo. They are the most similar of all the religions but there are stark differences which forces the choosing of one and another. How can a Jew recognize Jesus as maybe a great prophet but a Christian recognize Jesus as the messiah? How can that coexist? Yes, I know in new- age thinking there are now Christian Atheists, but eschew that garbage millennial thinking and there are conflicting points of the belief system which forces one to align with one or the other. Or how can a Jewish Christian only recognize the Old Testament when most Christians believe the New Testament as a part of the fulfillment of the Old Testament? There have been some responses already given but I am going to try to explain it as easy as I can from my understanding. Being a Christian means that you believe in the resurrection of Christ. This is key. Jewish people recognize Jesus as a great teacher but not the messiah and definitely not someone who was able to upend death. Now, in terms of the Messiah, the Jewish people as the chosen ones believed that a leader would come to liberate them and lead their people to be the leaders of this world. They are thinking purely physical, which is why they always reference someone like King David because the Messiah is supposed to come from his lineage. They have their own thinking of what the Messiah should like. The problem was Jesus did not fit their description of this nor was he talking about a purely physical sense of liberation. Jesus was a carpenter from a poor Jewish family (Little did they know, he also was a descendant of David). Jesus came to save them spiritually and they couldn't comprehend that. They are supposed to be liberated by a great warrior, think Saul for example. Not some lowly carpenter who makes lively speeches. You got to understand, these are people who are under the thumb of the Roman empire, paying crazy amounts of taxes and are subdued by them. They are thinking physical warfare, not spiritual warfare, that is what they have the Torah for in their eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 8 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: Nothing in the Torah or the Prophets or any other part of the Jewish Scriptures say that. So what it comes down to is that from 2000 years ago until now, you have disagreement on whether Jesus is the Messiah that their prophets foretold of or not. Some of the Jews of that day believe he was and that continues to this day. Others don't. So if you were a religiously observant Jew, and you came to be convinced that Jesus was actually the Messiah that the Jewish prophets foretold of, why couldn't you, in that sense, see yourself as a Jewish Christian? You see Jesus as the fulfillment or completion of the religion you've been practicing the entire time. I’m fine with thinking that messianic Judaism is incompatible to Judaism, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, lionheartkc said: Hope this helps... https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/messianic-judaism/ Thanks. ? Must’ve missed this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 minute ago, aujeff11 said: I’m fine with thinking that messianic Judaism is incompatible to Judaism, thanks. Well, we weren't really questioning your right to think whatever you want. I was simply trying to explain why a person in that situation could consider themselves a "Jewish Christian." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionheartkc 6,150 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, aujeff11 said: Thanks. ? Must’ve missed this. Anytime. I may not know the answer to every question, or even most questions, but through the years I've gotten really good at finding reputable places on the internet for said answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 minutes ago, TitanTiger said: Well, we weren't really questioning your right to think whatever you want. I was simply trying to explain why a person in that situation could consider themselves a "Jewish Christian." People can consider themselves whatever they want. Doesn’t mean I have to put credibility behind it or legitimize their sect of Judaism which has strayed far from the original tenets of Judaism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, aujeff11 said: People can consider themselves whatever they want. Doesn’t mean I have to put credibility behind it or legitimize their sect of Judaism which has strayed far from the original tenets of Judaism. Um...ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DAG 33,983 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Tiger said: I truly appreciate this insight but maybe I'm just a skeptic when it comes to Bruce regarding this matter. After X many years in the spotlight and always making sure you know that hes a "Jewish boy from Boston" and now all of a sudden he's a Jewish-Christian hybrid. He's a heck of a salesman and he knows with a strong Christian community in Auburn that it is to his advantage to embrace that faction of the AUFamily and say he's now a hybrid -- especially because he's building something. I just think that is part of his marketing plan -- and I'm not disputing what you said or it's validity I just think when it comes to Bruce I don't think he's talking about the literal history. JMO But to your post, where do the Black Hebrew Israelites enter the picture? I am ignorant on this topic but have seen people of this faith try to dispute the Torah and site the Bible while claiming to be the "real and original Jewish people" which confuses me. Now, as I said I am ignorant on this so if I've gathered my information from the wrong places by all means call me out. An old friend of mine has converted and takes the faith's teachings rather literally (to a fault in my opinion -- ranging from not even making a sandwich on Saturdays before sundown because it's constituted as "work" to being hateful towards non-believers) so he may not be the best source. I am a little confused by your question, so I am going to try to answer as I best as I can. Well, Hebrews are commonly known as descendants of Abraham. So they have been in the picture pre-dating Moses, who developed "the Torah." A "black Hebrew" is inferred as someone of African descent, but that is a whole different discussion. I consider most Hebrews to be dark skinned anyhow based on the region of the bibles referenced and I don't consider something that distinctive a salvational issue so I don't even get into those arguments and Paul in scripture (Titus 3:9) specifically tells us to steer from that. If you are more interested in it, I encourage you to read about Ben Ammi to give you some insight. But yes, the Jews followed the Torah to a tee, often interpreting it in ways that benefit them. No different than how some Christians interpret scripture to fit their own agenda as well. For example, the Sabbath was made for the Jews and to be observed. However, it started to become a burden over the definition of rest. The teachers of the laws started making their own parameters of what rest constituted, but at the same time would disregard their fellow man. For example, if you had a neighbor who had a farm animal stuck in a pit, the teachers of the law would say "well, you can't help them because you are violating the Sabbath." Jesus came and said this is not the point of the Sabbath!! Sabbath was for you to rest after several days of constant doing work and distractions, so you can refresh yourself being mindful of all the things God has given you in this life. But that didn't mean you should just disregard a fellow person in need. In fact, that mindset of the Sabbath is ultimately what made the Pharisees want to kill Jesus (Matthew 12:1-14). Thinking about that for a second? He went out his way to help a fellow neighbor in need and all they can think about was the fact that he violated the Sabbath in their eyes. Okay, great discussion! But I actually have to get some work done now lol. Hope this helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadtownTiger 363 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 23 hours ago, RunInRed said: I actually think it’s quite appropriately placed - religious entanglement with the program has always been part of the seedy under belly that is Auburn Athletics. Does Rule #5 apply here, or is it superseded by #8? Also wondering if #4 applies to the personal lives of players, of it's strictly gameday performance. WDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gowebb11 9,323 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 The wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, round and round........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beaumak 174 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 wow, this topic escalated quickly since yesterday. geez. I just do not see a huge issue with this at all. fun fact- I learned the Lord’s Prayer in the football locker room. reciting it over and over before every game I quickly was able to memorize it. I remember the first time hearing it, all my teammates saying some prayer which I had no idea what to say and what they were saying, LOL. I just kind of went with the motions per usual as what to expect in a predominant Christian society. no big deal. why do I share this, well I never went to church growing up nor cared to or pushed to go either. But as I was able to memorize and participate in the prayer it started feeling nice as I was part of that brotherhood of football and the culture it brings with it. even if I didn’t believe in god per say, I believed in football and the messages it can bring. And looking back it still brings great memories because to me it symbolizes part of the essence of what football is and came from. after reciting the prayer I knew my friends and I were all about to go out on the field and enjoy what we had worked so hard for together. thinking about it now makes me want to do it all over again. Point is that I was an atheist then, and an atheist now, and would not change any of that in the game. Football and Christianity are quite synonymous with each other, so if some folks have a big deal with a baptism on campus or Lord’s Prayer before games then boohoo. I never felt shunned and I knew what I was getting into. I dont understand people who would make huge deals out of these topics. If i was really offended then i really just would not play, instead of ruining it for the rest. It’s a choice to play, no one is forced. As far as law stuff, the school itself is not establishing one religion only. It's allowing one to be practiced, meaning others can as well. Freedom of religion, not from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadtownTiger 363 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 22 hours ago, selias said: The problem with religion in a nutshell right there. My god is better than your god and oh, that guy's god is right out! Well, I would counter that the problem with nutshells is they're almost always an oversimplification. Judaism, Christianity and Islam (arguably even Buddhists) all worship the same God, they just have different prophets. The Koran acknowledges Jesus was a prophet of God, but Mohammed was a more recent prophet. Mormons and Satanists believe in that same God, they just have different takes on how to proceed. Until we look at Asiatic, pagan, or aboriginal/archaic religions, they pretty much all worship the same deity, and an argument can be made even they have the Big Guy at the very top of their hierarchy. WDE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunInRed 16,409 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 I’m starting a new religion. We’ll be sacrificing elephants. Looking for a spot. Let me hit up AU Athletics and see if they have a room available. Be back with details soon ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BhamCAT 47 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, RunInRed said: I’m starting a new religion. We’ll be sacrificing elephants. Looking for a spot. Let me hit up AU Athletics and see if they have a room available. Be back with details soon ... There are plenty of out of work circus elephants to fill this need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitanTiger 20,482 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, RunInRed said: I’m starting a new religion. We’ll be sacrificing elephants. Looking for a spot. Let me hit up AU Athletics and see if they have a room available. Be back with details soon ... Sounds great. There’s one we can start with in Tuscaloosa. Total menace at football games anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I guess I don't see the problem with "Jewish Christian." Jews are a people not just a religion, just like blacks and others. Jews who believe in Jesus are still Jews but now can be referred to as Jewish Christian. We could just as well say African Christians, Hispanic Christians, Indian Christians, etc. But we almost always drop traditional heritage and just refer to followers of Jesus as Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AU64 10,122 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 6 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said: I guess I don't see the problem with "Jewish Christian." Jews are a people not just a religion, just like blacks and others. Jews who believe in Jesus are still Jews but now can be referred to as Jewish Christian. We could just as well say African Christians, Hispanic Christians, Indian Christians, etc. But we almost always drop traditional heritage and just refer to followers of Jesus as Christians. Yep....Hebrews are an ethnic category and Jews are a religious category.....and there are lots of Jews in Africa and elsewhere who are not of Hebrew descent....kind of like all Muslims are not Arabic. For various reasons, people of Hebrew descent convert to Christianity....as do former Buddhists and the like and it goes the other way too. There are tens of millions of Christians across Asia and Africa for example. When discussing stuff like this folks need to recognize the difference between religion and ethnicity. Essentially, ethnicity is who you are at birth and religious belief is a choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Tiger 4,261 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 hours ago, keesler said: I'm surprised they were the last to bring on a chaplain, Jeremiah Castille has been on staff as chaplain for probably as long at Chette has been here, 20 yrs or more. And Saban also added his priest Father Holloway as a chaplain yrs ago as well. Chette has been chaplain at Auburn since 1999. Castille has been it at bammer since 2001. So bammer copied us again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
augolf1716 21,155 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 18 hours ago, GwillMac6 said: THE ONE and only time I can remember Auburn football not being welcome of any and all different kind of religion was in the recruitment of Ameer Abdullah who is of Muslim faith and a alabama native who went on to star at Nebraska and is now with the Lions in the NFL. But that was more so a Gene Chizik thing than a Auburn thing. Also disclaimer obviously this was all rumors at the time on the crutin boards and a friend of the friend type of thing so TIWIW and with a grain of salt of course. Not true GC wanted him as a DB also GC admitted he made a big mistake by not recruiting him as a RB. Also just to clarify AU has had jewish/morman players in the 60's and 70's. Most of the Morman players came from Miami/south Fl. back then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GwillMac6 20,680 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, augolf1716 said: Not true GC wanted him as a DB also GC admitted he made a big mistake by not recruiting him as a RB. Also just to clarify AU has had jewish/morman players in the 60's and 70's. Most of the Morman players came from Miami/south Fl. back then that is great to hear OG GOLF!!!! The leather jacket slayer Chiz is one of my favorite people regardless of title to come through Auburn and I am glad that is not the case of why we did not recruit him harder. GOLF OFF THE TOP ROPE WITH THE SAVE!!!!!! WOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gctiger 931 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 SIAP. Many fans may not know it but Auburn was originally established as a Methodist institution so spirituality is kind of engrained in the DNA of our culture to a degree. Although I don’t mind occasional public displays of spirituality, it does make me somewhat uncomfortable if it becomes to frequent. because it may appear to not be geniuine. For the record I’m a practicing Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RunInRed 16,409 Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Pic from Gus’s office ... On. The. Sleeve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aujeff11 6,243 Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 Good pic. Am I supposed to be paying attention to something in particular? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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