Baptisms at the Athletics Complex

[DAG 33,982]

2 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Yes make it all about you and your personal beliefs. Certainly you can believe in anything you want.  But what you don't comprehend is that other people whose rights ARE EQUALLY AS IMPORTANT do not choose to believe what you do. I'm not sure why you find that so difficult. Just look at all the crap THE MAJORITY of posters are giving me for objecting to using PUBLIC facilities to perform a religious service. If you were honest you would admit that is EXACTLY the kind of societal pressure I am talking about. The fact that you can't see how many people might find doing a baptism in an athletic facility at a major PUBLIC university  objectionable does call into question critical thinking skills. I think it's fine to get baptized in a proper setting if that's what someone wants. 

I also don't think I asked for or need a Sunday school lesson.

 

Its not about what you or I want or think. You know I don’t believe in same sex marriage. That is my personal belief but that does not give me the right to come down hard on someone who does. It’s legal to do. If you choose to do that , then fine, who am I to stop you from that. Clearly , this player wanted to get baptized. Clearly a few people thought it was appropriate and well within their rights to do so. You don’t have to like it or respect it but to whine about how someone is violating your rights while you are throwing a fit because a small majority of people chose to baptize someone in a pool at Auburn, which seems to be  well within their rights is hypocritical at best. 

This is the great thing about America . I can respond any way I would like and specifically on this forum in an appropriate manner. Guess what? If you don’t like it, you can move along sister. I didn’t ask for your diatribe either yet here we are. Guess what? It’s within your right to do so as well.

[toddc 13,194]

1 hour ago, AUIH1 said:

This is also a problem.  There is tons of pressure the follow the religion of atheism and atheism is now unfortunately, much more accepted than Christianity in the MSM.

wde

Sarcasm! Sorry ? 

[toddc 13,194]

1 hour ago, Tigerbelle said:

It's not a religion. It's the absence of a belief in religion. I have never seen buildings erected on every corner and major holidays dedicated to the "practice" of atheism so no....no pressure. If you are referring to objections raised by atheists as being pressure from them then you are misguided. They merely want to not be forced to follow any religion, and that is guaranteed by the Constitution. I happen to agree with that. What I believe is my choice but may not be yours. Personally I do not care what you want to choose as your religious beliefs. You should offer that freedom to everyone else. 

I never said you or anybody else didn’t have that freedom! I also put religion in quotations, so I wasn’t being literal.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

2 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

I was discussing it mostly in a college classroom context. But I will say that if I had to choose between having faith that I came from some guy's rib or from a biological event then  I will choose what I know about the science of human biology every time. 

As I said earlier, that's a false dichotomy.

[jAUSon 2,836]

2 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Defending the separation of church and state is not a religion. There is no organization. You are trying to turn a legal issue into something it's not.

What is this seperation of church and state you write of? Isn't that  made-up thing? 

[Grumps 3,704]

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. This thread would have gotten very ugly with only a few posts if it had been started in the Politics Forum. I am impressed with the mostly civil discussion. You all are AWESOME!

[selias 2,398]

19 minutes ago, Grumps said:

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this discussion. This thread would have gotten very ugly with only a few posts if it had been started in the Politics Forum. I am impressed with the mostly civil discussion. You all are AWESOME!

I concur. This could have gotten ugly in a hurry. It was nice to see, that for the most part, people were respectful and civil.

And BTW, since a fair number of people have been saying they used to be an atheist or agnostic, I'll share a bit. I was raised Episcopal. I was an acolyte from the age of 10 until I graduated high school. You could have categorized me as a Christian until I was about 30. It was a gradual change until the idea of a supreme being didn't make any logic sense to me.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

My wife and I went to see the movie "I Can Only Imagine" this afternoon. No matter what your  religious persuasion I think you will enjoy it. Best movie I have seen in a long time. It is based on the great hit song by that name and the Mercy Me band. It is a low budget movie that has become a big  hit at the box office. The theater was packed today and I haven't seen anywhere near that many people watching one in a long time. Hope Hollywood gets the message.

And as a matter of trivia, the drummer in that Mercy Me band now lives in Auburn.

[alexava 6,973]

37 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

My wife and I went to see the movie "I Can Only Imagine" this afternoon. No matter what your  religious persuasion I think you will enjoy it. Best movie I have seen in a long time. It is based on the great hit song by that name and the Mercy Me band. It is a low budget movie that has become a big  hit at the box office. The theater was packed today and I haven't seen anywhere near that many people watching one in a long time. Hope Hollywood gets the message.

And as a matter of trivia, the drummer in that Mercy Me band now lives in Auburn.

You must have missed “Fifty Shades of Grey” opening weekend? 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

17 minutes ago, alexava said:

You must have missed “Fifty Shades of Grey” opening weekend? 

I did but heard it was good. I will watch it on TV when it comes out. There are differences. Grey is based a novel, Imagine on a true story. I just like true stories better. Grey cost $50M to make and got $571M at the box office. Imagine only cost $5M to make and still showing so don't know what the box office brings.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

As I said earlier, that's a false dichotomy.

What is a false dichotomy? Christian religion teaches that woman was created from the rib of a man and many Christians do take that quite literally. 

I believe that human life is created from an egg and a sperm because it has been proven to be a scientific fact. I also don't believe in original sin or a virgin birth. 

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

Dear Mods,

This thread was not exactly sports related to begin with and it is anything but sports related now.  Please, move this discussion to an appropriate forum. The AU football forum to my mind is for this discussion as far removed from appropriate as it gets.

[Mikey 16,598]

15 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I did but heard it was good. I will watch it on TV when it comes out. There are differences. Grey is based a novel, Imagine on a true story. I just like true stories better. Grey cost $50M to make and got $571M at the box office. Imagine only cost $5M to make and still showing so don't know what the box office brings.

Speaking of well-made low coast movies, "Blair Witch Project" is the most frightening thing I've ever seen on film. I thought no movie would ever scare me worse than "Invasion of the Body Snatchers" did back when I was a kid, but this one topped it.

[Tigerbelle 5,299]

3 hours ago, DAG said:

Its not about what you or I want or think. You know I don’t believe in same sex marriage. That is my personal belief but that does not give me the right to come down hard on someone who does. It’s legal to do. If you choose to do that , then fine, who am I to stop you from that. Clearly , this player wanted to get baptized. Clearly a few people thought it was appropriate and well within their rights to do so. You don’t have to like it or respect it but to whine about how someone is violating your rights while you are throwing a fit because a small majority of people chose to baptize someone in a pool at Auburn, which seems to be  well within their rights is hypocritical at best. 

This is the great thing about America . I can respond any way I would like and specifically on this forum in an appropriate manner. Guess what? If you don’t like it, you can move along sister. I didn’t ask for your diatribe either yet here we are. Guess what? It’s within your right to do so as well.

Awww now...you're just mad because I wasn't interested in your religious mansplaining.  Your last post just made my point perfectly. Social pressure on a sports forum to not disagree with having religious functions in the Athletic facility because the Christians get upset when you do. And I never once said the kid had no right to do whatever he wants regarding religion. I just know that it makes people who are not inclined to religious activities very uncomfortable and they are every bit as important as those who want to be baptized. He can take his religious activities to a church where they belong. 

So my discussion is seen as having a fit but your religious rhetoric is just fine? You are the one who is being disrespectful here. 

[Grumps 3,704]

1 hour ago, selias said:

I concur. This could have gotten ugly in a hurry. It was nice to see, that for the most part, people were respectful and civil.

And BTW, since a fair number of people have been saying they used to be an atheist or agnostic, I'll share a bit. I was raised Episcopal. I was an acolyte from the age of 10 until I graduated high school. You could have categorized me as a Christian until I was about 30. It was a gradual change until the idea of a supreme being didn't make any logic sense to me.

I COMPLETELY agree with you that God doesn't make logical sense. Even the Pascal's Wager argument referenced by Bigbird didn't work for me, because it is a logical argument. The God who revealed Himself to me is supernatural. My logic doesn't cover the supernatural.

Another curiosity question for you based one of my old hangups with the existence of a god: How do you explain mathematics? Mathematics is clearly NOT the product of anything random. Did it appear with the Big Bang? It wasn't invented by man, only discovered. As logical and structured as mathematics is, I just don't see how is just always existed and was not created by SOMETHING. Just wondering.

[selias 2,398]

30 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Dear Mods,

This thread was not exactly sports related to begin with and it is anything but sports related now.  Please, move this discussion to an appropriate forum. The AU football forum to my mind is for this discussion as far removed from appropriate as it gets.

Calm down. This has actually been a rather interesting thread with points and counterpoints being made without anyone getting their knickers in too much of a twist. Just scroll on by if it doesn't interest you.

[toddc 13,194]

Anyone else noticed the severely lacking gifs in this thread? Only God could have made that happen, but even with this powerful evidence, some on here will still not be convinced he exists!

[selias 2,398]

10 minutes ago, Grumps said:

I COMPLETELY agree with you that God doesn't make logical sense. Even the Pascal's Wager argument referenced by Bigbird didn't work for me, because it is a logical argument. The God who revealed Himself to me is supernatural. My logic doesn't cover the supernatural.

Another curiosity question for you based one of my old hangups with the existence of a god: How do you explain mathematics? Mathematics is clearly NOT the product of anything random. Did it appear with the Big Bang? It wasn't invented by man, only discovered. As logical and structured as mathematics is, I just don't see how is just always existed and was not created by SOMETHING. Just wondering.

Grumps, I'm just a business major so, I'll do my best explain my reasoning. The universe is ordered according to mathematics. Some of it, we currently understand.  Other parts, we are still learning. I think it was Aristotle who is first credited with an approximation of "Nature abhors a vacuum". Now, while I don't think he was speaking of actual vacuums (I don't think he had a Kirby ), mathematics has  Ibeen credited as being the universal language. To me, a balanced equation doesn't require the interference of a supreme being,. Do I think there's still so much to learn about ourselves, the universe, and the origin of everything? Absolutely. Do I think it requires the intervention of a omniscient intelligence? Absolutely not.

[MadtownTiger 363]

5 minutes ago, selias said:

Calm down. This has actually been a rather interesting thread with points and counterpoints being made without anyone getting their knickers in too much of a twist. Just scroll on by if it doesn't interest you.

I agree with you that it's interesting.

I also agree with CCT it's in the wrong forum.

WDE!

[CleCoTiger 1,957]

32 minutes ago, selias said:

Calm down. This has actually been a rather interesting thread with points and counterpoints being made without anyone getting their knickers in too much of a twist. Just scroll on by if it doesn't interest you.

Nothing in my post was uncalm.  Interesting is not the same as appropriate. By site rules and precedent as far as I understand them, this entire discussion is in the wrong forum.

[selias 2,398]

17 minutes ago, CleCoTiger said:

Nothing in my post was uncalm.  Interesting is not the same as appropriate. By site rules and precedent as far as I understand them, this entire discussion is in the wrong forum.

Mods have posted here so, clearly, they disagree

[aujeff11 6,243]

6 minutes ago, selias said:

Mods have posted here so, clearly, they disagree

The OP owns the site as far as I know. The mods aren’t going to step on his toes.

[AidiAU 1,270]

1 hour ago, aujeff11 said:

The OP owns the site as far as I know. The mods aren’t going to step on his toes.

RIR owns the site? I didn’t know that. 

#themoreyouknow

[MadtownTiger 363]

2 hours ago, jAUSon said:

What is this seperation of church and state you write of? Isn't that  made-up thing? 

Yes and no.

The Supreme Court has interpreted Jefferson's words as "gospel" (pun intended) in some rulings, and ignored them absolutely in others.  So SCOTUS is really no help at all on this topic.  The phrase seemingly relates to the Legislative branch, because it dovetails with the first amendment, but I sincerely don't think that's what Jefferson meant.  I believe his comments were directed at the Executive branch.

The phrase is not in the Constitution or the Bill of Rights, so the proverbial wall is more of an assumption than a right.  And you know what they say about assumptions and rights, everybody's got them and they all stink.  Maybe that's supposed to be opinions and.....digressions.

The phrase "separation of church and state" came from an open letter Jefferson wrote to a group of Quakers in New York or Pennsylvania (I think, might have been Baptists) regarding the Establishment/Free Exercise clauses of the First Amendment.  Unlike the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution wasn't the most popular document, and the vote to ratify was razor thin in about a third of the colonies/states.  When Jefferson was elected the Constitution was only about ten years old, and state charters adopted before the Revolution were often regarded as the prevailing authorities.  The group had written to the new president to weigh in on the issue of state charters that didn't specifically adopt the language of the First Amendment.  

But here's the thing, it's counter-intuitive to our thinking now, but they were petitioning for a greater separation.  As protestants they believed that while a legislator (a king or a pope or a president) had the right to be religious, they lacked the authority to dictate any religious edicts one way or the other.  Further, they argued the prime role of government is simply to to administer justice among citizens.  In his letter Jefferson agreed with everything they proposed---including the government's recognition of a sovereign God---and reaffirmed his support by introducing an allusion to something written 150 years earlier about a cultivated religion being the wall between civility and the chaotic world.  

Simply put, the context of Jefferson's words to the Quakers(?) was not about keeping religion out of government as much as keeping government out of religion.

WDE!

[DAG 33,982]

7 hours ago, Tigerbelle said:

Awww now...you're just mad because I wasn't interested in your religious mansplaining.  Your last post just made my point perfectly. Social pressure on a sports forum to not disagree with having religious functions in the Athletic facility because the Christians get upset when you do. And I never once said the kid had no right to do whatever he wants regarding religion. I just know that it makes people who are not inclined to religious activities very uncomfortable and they are every bit as important as those who want to be baptized. He can take his religious activities to a church where they belong. 

So my discussion is seen as having a fit but your religious rhetoric is just fine? You are the one who is being disrespectful here. 

 

 

 

Haha, I am mad? I never once said your response wasn't fit. You are projecting once again. You disagree with my position okay. That is fine with me. That is why it is an open thread. You feel I was disrespectful? Fair enough. I felt you were too. Alright, we can just disengage. At the end of the day, it does NOT make my point any more important than yours. You keep saying that when there is zero validity to it. We are just two people anonymously typing over the internet. You can say what you want to say and you can disagree all you like, I am not losing any sleep over it. I actually like discussing differences with people, if it is going to be a meaningful discussion. Ehh.

You just referenced social pressure? Who pressured you to come in this thread and engage in discussion? NOBODY. You came in this thread by your own admission because you wanted to. You have a lot of I,I,I statement with zero evidence to point to why you are right, yet when people disagree with it you want to say "HA, you made my point." You haven’t made any points. You said something earlier equivelant to “look how this thread is still open” thinking you made some astute observation. The ironic thing is the guy who open this thread and supposedly runs this site has openly said he isn’t religious and does not think this should occur within  the confines of AU. He feels uncomfortable on the other hand. There is nothing wrong with that position, as long as you don’t ban or shut people down for having a difference of opinion.Just because it makes YOU uncomfortable doesn't mean you have the right to censor it. A lot of people were uncomfortable with Kaep kneeling during the national anthem. It was his right to do so. There two things you can do. You can CHOOSE to accept it and move on or you can say I am not going to engage in it and not support it by refusing to support the NFL. What is inappropriate is trying to censor Kaep right to do such because it might make people feel uncomfortable. Now the owners have chosen not to sign him. Okay, it is their team, they are within their rights. He might try to sue, but that is also within his rights.  

There are a few things that make me uncomfortable, partly because of my faith. It doesn't make me one bit more or less important than the next guy. I choose to not be involved in it if I am that uncomfortable with it. I am in an interracial relationship. People are uncomfortable with it. That is fine, have your opinion, as long as you are not violating our rights. Or how about breastfeeding in public? Very controversial. Quite a few people think that is a private matter. If someone told you that breastfeeding in public makes them uncomfortable and you should do it at a more appropriate setting like a private area, what would you say? Those are more social examples as I see you don’t like scriptural based.

You are uncomfortable with where someone is getting baptized. That is fine and dandy, but the statement in bold that I highlighted is very intolerant. In fact, it goes against any point you are trying to make because as far as I know, they are well within their rights to do so at that pool. My opinion and your opinion DOESN'T MATTER at that point. Now, if something like that affects you to the point of feeling less adequate, that is a personal problem that you have to work on. If people praying before or after a football game in the locker room or on the field (religious activities) makes you feel less important then that is a personal problem. If any of the above is infringing on someone’s rights as you say, point me in that direction and I am all ears. Give some evidence to actually support what you say, not just your feelings.