Why Republican leaders won’t stand up to Trump regarding Russia

[TexasTiger 13,028]

Many are compromised. Sold their country out.

from today’s indictment:

[homersapien 11,453]

Sounds to me like the Republican party went down to the crossroads.

[AUbritt 611]

Honestly, I'm more interested in why Republicans (not the politicians, who are mostly corrupt, but good people) continue to support the lies. I mean, it's completely obvious at this point that Trump is totally in Putin's pocket. Can anyone really not see it at this point? 

So what's the explanation for the continued support? 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

11 hours ago, AUbritt said:

Honestly, I'm more interested in why Republicans (not the politicians, who are mostly corrupt, but good people) continue to support the lies. I mean, it's completely obvious at this point that Trump is totally in Putin's pocket. Can anyone really not see it at this point? 

So what's the explanation for the continued support? 

Which specific lies are you referencing? Do you mean objective lies in the sense that there’s no question of falsehood or do you suggest things you regard as untrue whilst republicans maintain the opposite? 

I would say that many have been critical of the latest fiasco. However, it’s not an “all or nothing” approach for us. For example: I say that we must always recognize Russia as our adversary, so clearly I didn’t find Trump’s comments appeasing. With that said, I support appointing dedicated textualists and originaists to the Supreme Court. I support financial  market and energy deregulation. I support the liberty of Banks. I support securing our borders. I support strengthening our military. I support corporate tax cuts. I support investing in infrastructure. And so on and so on.

I guess my support is dictated not on what I don’t like, but rather those things that I do like. Lets face it: Donald Trump is crude, vulgar, egotistical, at times even narcissistic. He is, at best, verbally maladroit, and his attempts to backtrack from statements that cause outrage are often embarrassing, and even cringeworthy. Still, all in all, Trump reminds me of what Lincoln said of another deeply flawed individual, Ulysses Grant, after the bloodbath at Shiloh - “I can’t spare this man, he fights.” (No pun intended lol). The real damage to America in my lifetime, and even before it, has not been caused by Donald Trump. Rather, it’s been caused by a shortsighted, insular, and incredibly selfish establishment that regularly confuses its interests with America’s and regards ordinary Americans with indifference and contempt.

Trump, in his often crude, imperfect way, is the most significant national figure to resist this establishment in years. He’s by no means attained perfection in doing so, nor do I insinuate such. This resistance is why the media coverage of Trump has consisted of one episode of hysteria after another ever since he went down the escalator at Trump Tower, and why there has been a concerted effort to deny the legitimacy of his presidency since day one. 

 

 

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

Lies like "I meant to say would't, instead of would" and "I meant no, I didn't want to answer more questions, not no the Russians aren't still attacking" are hilarious. He has to know, nobody buys that would/would't lie. Hell, all anyone would have to do is listen to the rest of the press conference to realize he's full of it. 

[AUbritt 611]

1 hour ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Which specific lies are you referencing? Do you mean objective lies in the sense that there’s no question of falsehood or do you suggest things you regard as untrue whilst republicans maintain the opposite? 

I would say that many have been critical of the latest fiasco. However, it’s not an “all or nothing” approach for us. For example: I say that we must always recognize Russia as our adversary, so clearly I didn’t find Trump’s comments appeasing. With that said, I support appointing dedicated textualists and originaists to the Supreme Court. I support financial  market and energy deregulation. I support the liberty of Banks. I support securing our borders. I support strengthening our military. I support corporate tax cuts. I support investing in infrastructure. And so on and so on.

I guess my support is dictated not on what I don’t like, but rather those things that I do like. Lets face it: Donald Trump is crude, vulgar, egotistical, at times even narcissistic. He is, at best, verbally maladroit, and his attempts to backtrack from statements that cause outrage are often embarrassing, and even cringeworthy. Still, all in all, Trump reminds me of what Lincoln said of another deeply flawed individual, Ulysses Grant, after the bloodbath at Shiloh - “I can’t spare this man, he fights.” (No pun intended lol). The real damage to America in my lifetime, and even before it, has not been caused by Donald Trump. Rather, it’s been caused by a shortsighted, insular, and incredibly selfish establishment that regularly confuses its interests with America’s and regards ordinary Americans with indifference and contempt.

Trump, in his often crude, imperfect way, is the most significant national figure to resist this establishment in years. He’s by no means attained perfection in doing so, nor do I insinuate such. This resistance is why the media coverage of Trump has consisted of one episode of hysteria after another ever since he went down the escalator at Trump Tower, and why there has been a concerted effort to deny the legitimacy of his presidency since day one. 

 

 

 

1 minute ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Lies like "I meant to say would't, instead of would" and "I meant no, I didn't want to answer more questions, not no the Russians aren't still attacking" are hilarious. He has to know, nobody buys that would/would't lie. Hell, all anyone would have to do is listen to the rest of the press conference to realize he's full of it. 

Yes, these are two of the lies I'm talking about.

But what the lies mean is that he's in Putin's pocket. I can understand some of the reasons @NolaAuTiger just gave; but the idea that Trump isn't causing major damage to the US is just wishful thinking.

Other than being compromised, here's the answer to why the Republicans in Congress won't do anything. 

But again, I can't see how Republicans aren't putting country before party. Because it's obvious to me that that's the real choice now.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

1 minute ago, AUbritt said:

 

Yes, these are two of the lies I'm talking about.

But what the lies mean is that he's in Putin's pocket. I can understand some of the reasons @NolaAuTiger just gave; but the idea that Trump isn't causing major damage to the US is just wishful thinking.

Other than being compromised, here's the answer to why the Republicans in Congress won't do anything. 

But again, I can't see how Republicans aren't putting country before party. Because it's obvious to me that that's the real choice now.

It's simple why they aren't. Because the Republican base is on the Trump train. If they speak out, he speaks out against them and his cult votes them out. They are afraid of losing their seats. There are exceptions, but the one's who seem to be willing to fight him on things are the ones that aren't trying to hold their seats.

[AUbritt 611]

1 minute ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

It's simple why they aren't. Because the Republican base is on the Trump train. If they speak out, he speaks out against them and his cult votes them out. They are afraid of losing their seats. There are exceptions, but the one's who seem to be willing to fight him on things are the ones that aren't trying to hold their seats.

No, I get why the Rebublican members of Congress are not showing any guts -- they want to be re-elected.

What I don't get is why Republican voters are still on the Trump Train.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

9 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

 

Yes, these are two of the lies I'm talking about.

But what the lies mean is that he's in Putin's pocket. I can understand some of the reasons @NolaAuTiger just gave; but the idea that Trump isn't causing major damage to the US is just wishful thinking.

Other than being compromised, here's the answer to why the Republicans in Congress won't do anything. 

But again, I can't see how Republicans aren't putting country before party. Because it's obvious to me that that's the real choice now.

No harm in disagreeing with me. I was just providing my answer.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

Just now, AUbritt said:

No, I get why the Rebublican members of Congress are not showing any guts -- they want to be re-elected.

What I don't get is why Republican voters are still on the Trump Train.

That I don't get. But I'm not really surprised by it. Bad leaders get into office all the time, everywhere. Even Hitler had strong support and he was way worse. I think what it boils down to is that the left hates him so much, it makes the right love him even more. They probably think, "if the "libtards" hate him, he must be worthy of my support". Wild time we're living in though. It'll be interesting to see if there is anyone or anything who can bring the country back from this massive divide. 

[AUbritt 611]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

No harm in disagreeing with me. I was just providing my answer.

Yep, and I appreciate it.

So, would you say that you don't see Trump as in Putin's pocket? Because I can't see his performance in Helsinki and subsequently as showing anything else. In other words, do you disagree about this?

Or do you think that it's ok that Trump is beholden to Putin (and likely doing Putin's bidding)?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

Just now, AUbritt said:

Yep, and I appreciate it.

So, would you say that you don't see Trump as in Putin's pocket? Because I can't see his performance in Helsinki and subsequently as showing anything else. In other words, do you disagree about this?

Or do you think that it's ok that Trump is beholden to Putin (and likely doing Putin's bidding)?

Saying he’s “in Putin’s pocket” is a colorful way of describing it. 

Yes, I disagree with his actions this week. Like I’ve said, Russia will always be a deceiving adversary. Any attempt to “comprise” or “meet them in the middle” will be futile. I can’t defend his performance in Helsinki. His poor performance however, doesn’t abrogate my support of other “good” things I think he has done.

[AUbritt 611]

2 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Saying he’s “in Putin’s pocket” is a colorful way of describing it. 

Yes, I disagree with his actions this week. Like I’ve said, Russia will always be a deceiving adversary. Any attempt to “comprise” or “meet them in the middle” will be futile. I can’t defend his performance in Helsinki. His poor performance however, doesn’t abrogate my support of other “good” things I think he has done.

But what his poor performance indicates is that Putin owns him, no? To me, that's a terrifying state of affairs that can't be ignored. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

2 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Saying he’s “in Putin’s pocket” is a colorful way of describing it. 

Yes, I disagree with his actions this week. Like I’ve said, Russia will always be a deceiving adversary. Any attempt to “comprise” or “meet them in the middle” will be futile. I can’t defend his performance in Helsinki. His poor performance however, doesn’t abrogate my support of other “good” things I think he has done.

I think what most on the other side are wondering, is what is the line that the guy can cross, where his supporters will stop their support. I realize that every politician can do good things and bad things in someone's eyes. But what line can be crossed that would make people say, "ok well I like the tax cuts, but I'm not willing to be compromised by Russia.

 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

9 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

Wild time we're living in though. It'll be interesting to see if there is anyone or anything who can bring the country back from this massive divide. 

I do think the vast number those that are “in the middle,” will ultimately spawn a new party....eventually.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

12 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

That I don't get. But I'm not really surprised by it. Bad leaders get into office all the time, everywhere. Even Hitler had strong support and he was way worse. I think what it boils down to is that the left hates him so much, it makes the right love him even more. They probably think, "if the "libtards" hate him, he must be worthy of my support". Wild time we're living in though. It'll be interesting to see if there is anyone or anything who can bring the country back from this massive divide. 

I hate to say it like this, but the death of a generation.  If you look at polling, Millennials and Gen Y are much more willing to work together on issues.  Unfortunately those in power are older and have zero interest.

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

1 minute ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I do think the vast number those that are “in the middle,” will ultimately spawn a new party....eventually.

See I think the opposite will happen. I think you're either going to support Donald Trump ideals or Bernie Sanders ideals and if you don't you're going to get replaced. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,026]

Just now, Brad_ATX said:

I hate to say it like this, but the death of a generation.  If you look at polling, Millennials and Gen Y are much more willing to work together on issues.  Unfortunately those in power are older and have zero interest.

Yea you're absolutely right about that. The dynamics of politics in this country are going to shift massively when the boomers are gone. That's really going to be interesting to experience. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

3 minutes ago, AUbritt said:

But what his poor performance indicates is that Putin owns him, no? To me, that's a terrifying state of affairs that can't be ignored. 

No, I do not think it indicative of the notion that “Putin owns him,” whatever that could mean. Such would be, IMO, incompatible with his foreign policies towards them - which can hardly be characterized as “pro-Russian.” 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

11 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I think what most on the other side are wondering, is what is the line that the guy can cross, where his supporters will stop their support. I realize that every politician can do good things and bad things in someone's eyes. But what line can be crossed that would make people say, "ok well I like the tax cuts, but I'm not willing to be compromised by Russia.

 

As an example, if he engaged in any illegality whatsoever with Russia, I would drop support of him completely. Again, I don’t support his actions this past week, but the actions weren’t enough to overcome the good I believe he has done to the point where I’m willing to oppose him altogether, notwithstanding anything else he does.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

13 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

See I think the opposite will happen. I think you're either going to support Donald Trump ideals or Bernie Sanders ideals and if you don't you're going to get replaced. 

Time will tell

[homersapien 11,453]

On 7/18/2018 at 10:27 PM, AUbritt said:

Honestly, I'm more interested in why Republicans (not the politicians, who are mostly corrupt, but good people) continue to support the lies. I mean, it's completely obvious at this point that Trump is totally in Putin's pocket. Can anyone really not see it at this point? 

So what's the explanation for the continued support? 

Possible reason #1:  Pure denial. It's extremely difficult to admit you were fundamentally wrong about anything.

Possible reason #2: Cynicism.  Anything is acceptable in the purpose of thwarting progressives.

Possible reason #3: Pure, unadulterated ignorance, combined with a total lack of curiosity. (Related closely to #1)

Possible reason #4: Strong sense of victimhood.  Others are preventing you from obtaining and enjoying what is rightfully yours and you support anyone willing to push them back.  A sense of entitlement.

Possible reason #5: No foundational principles or morals.  Psychopathy.  Evil.

Various combinations of the above are probably the norm.

 

 

[homersapien 11,453]

3 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

Which specific lies are you referencing? Do you mean objective lies in the sense that there’s no question of falsehood or do you suggest things you regard as untrue whilst republicans maintain the opposite? 

I would say that many have been critical of the latest fiasco. However, it’s not an “all or nothing” approach for us. For example: I say that we must always recognize Russia as our adversary, so clearly I didn’t find Trump’s comments appeasing. With that said, I support appointing dedicated textualists and originaists to the Supreme Court. I support financial  market and energy deregulation. I support the liberty of Banks. I support securing our borders. I support strengthening our military. I support corporate tax cuts. I support investing in infrastructure. And so on and so on.

I guess my support is dictated not on what I don’t like, but rather those things that I do like. Lets face it: Donald Trump is crude, vulgar, egotistical, at times even narcissistic. He is, at best, verbally maladroit, and his attempts to backtrack from statements that cause outrage are often embarrassing, and even cringeworthy. Still, all in all, Trump reminds me of what Lincoln said of another deeply flawed individual, Ulysses Grant, after the bloodbath at Shiloh - “I can’t spare this man, he fights.” (No pun intended lol). The real damage to America in my lifetime, and even before it, has not been caused by Donald Trump. Rather, it’s been caused by a shortsighted, insular, and incredibly selfish establishment that regularly confuses its interests with America’s and regards ordinary Americans with indifference and contempt.

Trump, in his often crude, imperfect way, is the most significant national figure to resist this establishment in years. He’s by no means attained perfection in doing so, nor do I insinuate such. This resistance is why the media coverage of Trump has consisted of one episode of hysteria after another ever since he went down the escalator at Trump Tower, and why there has been a concerted effort to deny the legitimacy of his presidency since day one. 

 

 

This is BS.   You are parroting Trump's paranoia.  Only Trump feels that way.  Trump is the one who keeps referring to the Russian investigation as a "witchhunt" (i.e.: targeting him.)  Obviously he fears what may be uncovered.

Regardless, while there may be a concerted effort to remove him from office, but it's not based on electoral (legal) legitimacy.  Such efforts are just as legitimate as his election.

While one can make the argument that Russian interference may have provided the difference, which was razor thin, but one can also argue that any number of things did that - the Comey email announcement, Hillary's campaigning ineptitude, whatever. None of that is provable. 

But the legitimacy of his victory - within the defined rules, however unfortunate they may be - is not being challenged, generally speaking.

 

Oh, and the media doesn't generate "hysteria" about Trump.  He does that himself.

 

[homersapien 11,453]

And it's not just Trump with the Republicans:

Steve King Is A White Supremacist, And The GOP Doesn’t Care

Among other white supremacist views, the congressman refused to apologize for promoting a neo-Nazi on Twitter. Republicans continue to look the other way.

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/steve-king-white-nationalist_us_5b3276f0e4b0b745f1784ebe

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

45 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This is BS.   You are parroting Trump's paranoia.  Only Trump feels that way.  Trump is the one who keeps referring to the Russian investigation as a "witchhunt" (i.e.: targeting him.)  Obviously he fears what may be uncovered.

Regardless, while there may be a concerted effort to remove him from office, but it's not based on electoral (legal) legitimacy.  Such efforts are just as legitimate as his election.

While one can make the argument that Russian interference may have provided the difference, which was razor thin, but one can also argue that any number of things did that - the Comey email announcement, Hillary's campaigning ineptitude, whatever. None of that is provable. 

But the legitimacy of his victory - within the defined rules, however unfortunate they may be - is not being challenged, generally speaking.

 

Oh, and the media doesn't generate "hysteria" about Trump.  He does that himself.

 

I don’t care whether you think my position is valid or not. The engagements I’ve had with others in the “serious” forum drastic differently from the one you’re trying to create with me now. Thank you again for bestowing upon us your maturity in telling me that my thoughts are BS and that I am simply parroting Trump’s paranoia. The smack talk forum fits you better, so stick with that.