The refs in that game should tender their resignations

[tiger78 13]

And? We still started slow and did not do what we needed to do. It was close and the refs did make bad calls at times that really hurt us. We had a poor pass rush, and with a few exceptions, did not look sharp in any phase of the game. I wish it could all be on the refs, but it is not, and LSU is not the best team we will face this year.

[Sully to Beasley 643]

9 hours ago, BJCrawford said:

Just heard Steve spurrier on the radio about our game. The question was asked how you hold a team to 2.9 ydc rushing and below 50% pass complete and still lose. He kiddingly said “score more points” then went on to say refs should not decide the outcome of a game and thinks PI calls are much to subjective and should be reviewed since it is so inconsistent.  He said it cost auburn and also cost Georgia in the National championship game. It’s not just us fans.....

I choose to believe the "Old Ball Coach" over some of my fellow posters who think these PI calls against us particularly on the final drive were correct. If they were correct, why didn't the flag throwers call it on LSU DB's on blatant PI fouls against us? Why was the LSU OL allowed to hold all day long with no calls? I am more than ever convinced that something is afoul in the SEC office. College football does not need to turn into the WWE!

[auol72 188]

I have tried not to say anything about this subject because there is nothing that will change what happened and Steve Shaw and the SEC office will do nothing. However, these refs were either incompetent or worse.  If i am not badly mistaken the side judge that failed to call the clear PI on Greedy Williams who grabbed from behind without ever looking for the ball was the same one to call J Dean when he ran for over ten yards with his eyes back on the ball playing the ball, not the wr and then who made a play on the ball and batted it away. Interesting. However, the clearest evidence of incompetence was the first PI call on the last LSU drive. The flag was not thrown untill the ball hit the ground. The call was PI. However, there is no argument by anyone that the defender never made contact with the wr while the ball was in the air. Yes, if you wanted to call what the defender did early in the route you could but by rule that would have to be a five yard penalty for defensive holding. Yet PI, the 15 yard penalty was what was called. That moved the ball forward 15 yards not 5. That is a clear error and the white hat should have known it and corrected it. Would ten more yards on the fg attempt made a difference? We will never know.

[Barnacle 9,064]

SEC's best crew was in Oxford FWIW

[BJCrawford 1,568]

Anyone know if Is it true the PI calls on us were all by the same ref? Or does that happen bc of the area they cover?

[WarTiger 3,909]

9 hours ago, auol72 said:

I have tried not to say anything about this subject because there is nothing that will change what happened and Steve Shaw and the SEC office will do nothing. However, these refs were either incompetent or worse.  If i am not badly mistaken the side judge that failed to call the clear PI on Greedy Williams who grabbed from behind without ever looking for the ball was the same one to call J Dean when he ran for over ten yards with his eyes back on the ball playing the ball, not the wr and then who made a play on the ball and batted it away.    Interesting. However, the clearest evidence of incompetence was the first PI call on the last LSU drive. The flag was not thrown untill the ball hit the ground. The call was PI. However, there is no argument by anyone that the defender never made contact with the wr while the ball was in the air.  That is absolutely true.  No contact was made while the ball was in the air which is required for there to be pass interference.  (I really hope Malzahn at the very least turned that play in to the SEC office).   Yes, if you wanted to call what the defender did early in the route you could but by rule that would have to be a five yard penalty for defensive holding.  If you wanted??  The official is obligated to make that call.  If he doesn't he isn't doing his job.  It was definitely defensive holding, but defensive holding on an eligible pass receiver is a 10 yard penalty and automatic first down not a 5 yard penalty.  Yet PI, the 15 yard penalty was what was called. I agree.  Wrong call was made here.  It was clearly holding (so it was definitely a penalty but it definitely wasn't pass interference.  That moved the ball forward 15 yards not 5 (10). That is a clear error and the white hat should have known it and corrected it.  NO possible way the white hat should have or would have known that.  If the white hat saw that, he wouldn't be doing his job.   It's not his job to look downfield.  His job is the quarterback and the two guards.  So, there is no way he should know that.  Would ten more yards on the fg attempt made a difference? We will never know.

The absolutely criminal part of the entire game was what they let lsu's secondary get away with.  After saturday's game I can understand why so many people think officials are biased.  It sure looked that way saturday.      Grab and Restrict was definitely there on the deep ball to Slayton and it wasn't called.  Field Judge should have seen that and easily made the call.   Greedy Williams got away with whatever he wanted to do, including constantly holding and restricting our WR from running routes.     I don't buy into the conspiracy theories or the biased argument, but what happened in Auburn saturday was bad.  It was HORRIBLY BAD....

[doc4aday 1,887]

1 hour ago, WarTiger said:

The absolutely criminal part of the entire game was what they let lsu's secondary get away with.  After saturday's game I can understand why so many people think officials are biased.  It sure looked that way saturday.      Grab and Restrict was definitely there on the deep ball to Slayton and it wasn't called.  Field Judge should have seen that and easily made the call.   Greedy Williams got away with whatever he wanted to do, including constantly holding and restricting our WR from running routes.     I don't buy into the conspiracy theories or the biased argument, but what happened in Auburn saturday was bad.  It was HORRIBLY BAD....

The more of us who contact the SEC office concerning officiating crews, maybe then maybe, this can be corrected the next time Auburn takes the field. Not only would Auburn benefit, but all SEC teams would as well. I honestly believe that each team in a game should have 2 challenges with regard to major penalties such as PI and holding. Also, during the last 2 minutes of the game any major penalty such as PI and holding must be reviewed by the SEC officiating office to determine if the call was a valid call. These kind of penalties need to stop period before no more games are left in the hands of the refs and not the hands of the ball players on the field.

[Sully to Beasley 643]

I didn't pay $125 per ticket to see weekend warrior flag throwers decide the LSU game. It is just a shame that the game is officiated by part-timers. ?

[IronMan70 3,277]

Those discounting some of these posters complaints about the PI calls with an argument that AU could have played better should keep something in mind. This is not an either or situation. AU could have done more to win the game AND the referees made bad calls on LSU's last drive. Those two things can be true at the same time.

[auol72 188]

We now know the referee who missed/made the calls is from Jasper, Alabama. I am curious who he and his family cheer for? Not going to waste my time to find out, but if he did graduate or have family graduate from you know who, there is your answer.

[BJCrawford 1,568]

1 hour ago, auol72 said:

We now know the referee who missed/made the calls is from Jasper, Alabama. I am curious who he and his family cheer for? Not going to waste my time to find out, but if he did graduate or have family graduate from you know who, there is your answer.

I read an article that simply stated the Jasper area was all Bama and few auburn fans could be found in the area (in reference to this ref). I’m not a conspiracy theorist and have no idea if this is true. Just thought I’d throw that out there.

[bg5 536]

On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 6:37 PM, TitanTiger said:

Spare me the "don't blame refs" or "we had our opportunities."  I'm not in the mood.  LSU got bailed out multiple times to extend their drives late and we had two of our drives killed because the refs apparently only notice pass interference when Auburn does it.  But Greedy Williams can grab and redirect a player off his route and flat run a WR over and no flag.  Complete horse***t.

I'm am 100% with you on this one. Take any one (1) of those bad calls away (just one) and we win. On the last two drives there were four calls that extended the drive for them or cost us a drive. And for everyone that says we should not have been in that position I say you don't beat top 15 teams by lots of points they are usually close games. Bad calls, especially like this can and will effect the outcome of a game.

[aukooze91 11]

Here's the list of them from Saturday.

Officials: Referee: John McDaid; Umpire: Tom Quick; Linesman: Gary Jayroe;
Line judge: Chad Lorance; Back judge: Jimmy Russell; Field judge: P. Davenport;
Side judge: Alex Moore; Center judge: Brian Davis;
 

Davenport is Phil Davenport I believe.

 

[WarTiger 3,909]

20 hours ago, doc4aday said:

The more of us who contact the SEC office concerning officiating crews, maybe then maybe, this can be corrected the next time Auburn takes the field. Not only would Auburn benefit, but all SEC teams would as well. I honestly believe that each team in a game should have 2 challenges with regard to major penalties such as PI and holding. Also, during the last 2 minutes of the game any major penalty such as PI and holding must be reviewed by the SEC officiating office to determine if the call was a valid call. These kind of penalties need to stop period before no more games are left in the hands of the refs and not the hands of the ball players on the field.

I was listening to local talk radio this morning and there's a new show on down here that features TOMMY TUBERVILLE.  He does a terrific job giving the coaches perspective and he was on the original replay committee.  He was talking this morning about the pass interference situation from the Auburn game and he said basically the same thing.  He thinks coaches should have at least 1 challenge for the game to use to get replay to look at the play again and that includes pass interference and other penalties.   

Personally, I'm not at all in favor of using replay for penalty review other than what we currently have.   1. It extends the length of the game (and they are already long enough).   2.  It wouldn't change anything.  Fans will still disagree no matter how many people look at the play.  Basically if the call is in favor of the team you cheer for, its a great call and if it goes against you, the officials are screwing us over.  It's already that way with the replay provisions like they are.  Adding penalty reviews to it will make it much worse not better, IMO.     

[bigbird 60,567]

1 hour ago, WarTiger said:

He was talking this morning about the pass interference situation from the Auburn game and he said basically the same thing.  He thinks coaches should have at least 1 challenge for the game to use to get replay to look at the play again and that includes pass interference and other penalties.  

That would be great. It would make refs  accountable and ensure the right call one way or the other.   A lot of games come down to a couple plays and penalties.

What is most maddening for me, is their is so much subjectivity with reagards refs and PI.  10 refs can see the same pass play and you'll get 10 different calls, and 10 different explanations for it. Some refs allow hand fighting, some allow "boys to play", some don't allow any contact...ever, some believe in uncatchable balls...but most don't. There needs to be a lot more consistency and a lot less subjectivity.

[wareagleguy 1,393]

16 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That would be great. It would make refs  accountable and ensure the right call one way or the other.   A lot of games come down to a couple games and penalties.

What is most maddening for me, is their is so much subjectivity with reagards refs and PI.  10 refs can see the same pass play and you'll get 10 different calls, and 10 different explanations for it. Some refs allow hand fighting, some allow "boys to play", some don't allow any contact...ever, some believe in uncatchable balls...but most don't. There needs to be a lot more consistency and a lot less subjectivity.

Agree 1000%

[AUsince72 11,084]

13 minutes ago, bigbird said:

That would be great. It would make refs  accountable and ensure the right call one way or the other.   A lot of games come down to a couple games and penalties.

What is most maddening for me, is their is so much subjectivity with reagards refs and PI.  10 refs can see the same pass play and you'll get 10 different calls, and 10 different explanations for it. Some refs allow hand fighting, some allow "boys to play", some don't allow any contact...ever, some believe in uncatchable balls...but most don't. There needs to be a lot more consistency and a lot less subjectivity.

I agree and that's why I believe PI should be reviewable.  They may each see it subjectively but the rules are not subjective.  There is still right & wrong.

However, the sticky situation is how to handle a NON-call.  Perhaps THAT is where the coaches should be allowed a challenge.

[doc4aday 1,887]

3 hours ago, WarTiger said:

I was listening to local talk radio this morning and there's a new show on down here that features TOMMY TUBERVILLE.  He does a terrific job giving the coaches perspective and he was on the original replay committee.  He was talking this morning about the pass interference situation from the Auburn game and he said basically the same thing.  He thinks coaches should have at least 1 challenge for the game to use to get replay to look at the play again and that includes pass interference and other penalties.   

Personally, I'm not at all in favor of using replay for penalty review other than what we currently have.   1. It extends the length of the game (and they are already long enough).   2.  It wouldn't change anything.  Fans will still disagree no matter how many people look at the play.  Basically if the call is in favor of the team you cheer for, its a great call and if it goes against you, the officials are screwing us over.  It's already that way with the replay provisions like they are.  Adding penalty reviews to it will make it much worse not better, IMO.     

I respect your take on this, but if a game is extended by 5 -10 minutes to get potentially harmful bad corrected, it is worth every extended second.  Regardless if it is Auburn, LSU, UGA, and so forth, every team in the SEC deserves for the refs to get it right. This way at least the play is looked at in closer scrutiny and gives the team(s) the right call.  I honestly think that each of the PI call against us left so much question of doubt that a closer scrutiny would have overturned at least one and likely both calls.

I have a good friend who is actually a bama fan, and refereed high school and some small college games for 34 years and asked him to give me an honest and non-biased opinion of those 2 PI calls in the last moments of the game.  He was quick to say that he would NOT have called PI on either of the plays. He said that both calls the defender did everything correct that he had been trained to call and the plays were good defense on Auburn's behalf.  I will not mention his name at his request, but wanted to bring this to light.

He is good friends with some of the refs that work SEC games, and will seek their opinion. He did say that they will likely tip toe to some degree around this. The bottom line is that refs have got to get calls right 99.9% of the time and not 85% of which was likely the percentage of calls that were correct that game.

[WarTiger 3,909]

2 hours ago, bigbird said:

That would be great. It would make refs  accountable and ensure the right call one way or the other.   A lot of games come down to a couple plays and penalties. I don't think it ensures the right call.  How many times have we as Auburn fans been subject to a review and come out on the short end of it. (thinking Artis-Paynes fumble in 2014 vs. A&M that he clearly recovered.)

What is most maddening for me, is their is so much subjectivity with reagards refs and PI.  10 refs can see the same pass play and you'll get 10 different calls, and 10 different explanations for it. Some refs allow hand fighting, some allow "boys to play", some don't allow any contact...ever, some believe in uncatchable balls...but most don't. There needs to be a lot more consistency and a lot less subjectivity.

Well, not 10 different calls.  2 perhaps.  Half thinking its pass interference and half thinking its not.    That's why I don't believe replay on these would work.   It might be nice to try it for a season on a trial bases and see how it works out..  As an official, I'm not at all opposed to it, because our ultimate job is to get the call right.  If it takes replay to do that, then thats fine with me.   The other big hurdle you have to get over is how it will impact the length of the game.   Remember we have collaborative replay in the SEC, but if it goes to the SEC office (which all replays do now), if there is disagreement, it still defaults back to the onsite replay official to make the call.  So, we are still dealing ultimately with one persons opinion.

The other thing is if we had been on offense and been the recipient of these calls, none of these threads on PI would exits here.  We got the short end of the stick on saturday but not because of what was flagged against us.  We got the short end because of what they allowed LSU to get away with. 

[WarTiger 3,909]

2 minutes ago, doc4aday said:

I respect your take on this, but if a game is extended by 5 -10 minutes to get potentially harmful bad corrected, it is worth every extended second.  Regardless if it is Auburn, LSU, UGA, and so forth, every team in the SEC deserves for the refs to get it right. This way at least the play is looked at in closer scrutiny and gives the team(s) the right call.  I honestly think that each of the PI call against us left so much question of doubt that a closer scrutiny would have overturned at least one and likely both calls.

I have a good friend who is actually a bama fan, and refereed high school and some small college games for 34 years and asked him to give me an honest and non-biased opinion of those 2 PI calls in the last moments of the game.  He was quick to say that he would NOT have called PI on either of the plays. He said that both calls the defender did everything correct that he had been trained to call and the plays were good defense on Auburn's behalf.  I will not mention his name at his request, but wanted to bring this to light.

He is good friends with some of the refs that work SEC games, and will seek their opinion. He did say that they will likely tip toe to some degree around this. The bottom line is that refs have got to get calls right 99.9% of the time and not 85% of which was likely the percentage of calls that were correct that game.

When I talk about time I'm not talking about 1 review.  I'm talking about the challenges that coaches may or may not have and the potential for each coach to use them all.   I don't disagree (stated in above post) that the ultimate goal is to get the call right, but if we allow each coach (for example) 2 challenges and they take average of 7 1/2 minutes (based on your 5-10 minute statement) to review, we are adding 30 minutes to the game.  That's all I was referring too.  If it's one review then, sure, not a problem, but add them all together and its an issue for the networks and they are already trying to find ways to shorten the game.  

As an official myself, the call on the sideline was spot on.  He as holding him arm for several yards before the pass got there.  IMO, the official was justified in throwing that flag, but he would have also been justified to leave it alone and not flag it at all and consider it hand fighting so to speak.  The one over the middle should have been defensive holding and not reported or enforced as pass interference. But, it was definitely a penalty.

Again, just a different perspective as there really no right or wrong answers here.

[doc4aday 1,887]

There needs to be more training for SEC refs and they should have to take live tests on all penalties until they could make better calls in their sleep or blindfolded.  Non biased accountability should be the standard that all SEC refs are held to. One thing for sure, many Auburn fans including myself will be watching every remaining game in closer scrutiny. At this point, I feel like I have learned enough about good accurate referring to the point I could put on a zebra suit and make correct PI, holding, and other critical penalty calls! (just kidding folks!, I have learned a lot indeed though)

[bigbird 60,567]

25 minutes ago, WarTiger said:

We got the short end of the stick on saturday but not because of what was flagged against us.  We got the short end because of what they allowed LSU to get away with. 

I agree. Kim's two holding calls in the 4th come to mind. Those were 2 huge penalties that really swayed the momentum of the game.  They were also 2 penalties that were absolutely the right call. That said, our DL we're being completely undressed all night and they couldn't get a glimpse of a flag.  Just because penalties and penalty yardage was close, it doesn't mean the game was called fairly.

[auburnphan 6,050]

Anyone on campus notice if the  LSU offensive lineman have let go of Brown yet?

[jw 4 au 526]

11 hours ago, WarTiger said:

When I talk about time I'm not talking about 1 review.  I'm talking about the challenges that coaches may or may not have and the potential for each coach to use them all.   I don't disagree (stated in above post) that the ultimate goal is to get the call right, but if we allow each coach (for example) 2 challenges and they take average of 7 1/2 minutes (based on your 5-10 minute statement) to review, we are adding 30 minutes to the game.  That's all I was referring too.  If it's one review then, sure, not a problem, but add them all together and its an issue for the networks and they are already trying to find ways to shorten the game.  

As an official myself, the call on the sideline was spot on.  He as holding him arm for several yards before the pass got there.  IMO, the official was justified in throwing that flag, but he would have also been justified to leave it alone and not flag it at all and consider it hand fighting so to speak.  The one over the middle should have been defensive holding and not reported or enforced as pass interference. But, it was definitely a penalty.

Again, just a different perspective as there really no right or wrong answers here.

Two things, after many, many years on this board, I appreciate your statement earlier that you understand how many people can conclude that officials may be biased. I have argued with you a few times over the years on this, and don’t recall you ever admitting this. One has to wonder why such the inconsistancy all the time happens with certain officials. In my opinion, SEC officials should not be from SEC schools, period. Hell, fly them in from somewhere else. Take the uncertainty and implication out of it. Secondly, you just said you thought the call was spot on. I am curious if that is your opinion after watching the GIF, or the entire game. My problem is that it was not PI the entire game, not on greedy (x2), not on Iggy in the end zone (same official maybe), so why all of a sudden now at the end of the game when it should open up even more, not get tighter. How can a DB learn all game only to get flagged like that at the end???  That is why it was a BS call to me and that one official is suspect.

But reality is we need to move on and just win out until UGA, then deal with this issue then before the game.  War Eagle!!!

[im4aual 487]

Are SEC officials graded?  If so, who has access to the grades?  Since all the SEC schools except Vandy are public institutions and supported, at least in part, by taxes - shouldn't the results be made public?  Has anyone ever sued to have the results made public?  Just wondering.