Trump and Tax Schemes (Long)

[homersapien 11,373]

Good article.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/3/17934360/trump-taxes-illegal-new-york-times-expose

Did the Trump family’s tax practices break the law? An expert explains.

Donald Trump’s family avoided taxes, but did they evade them? We asked an expert why the difference matters.

[SaltyTiger 7,807]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

You just going to overlook his family's immoral, predatory and fraudulent business practices?

I am. He seems to be transparent and attempting to accomplish everything he campaigned on.

[SaltyTiger 7,807]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Good article.

https://www.vox.com/the-goods/2018/10/3/17934360/trump-taxes-illegal-new-york-times-expose

Did the Trump family’s tax practices break the law? An expert explains.

Donald Trump’s family avoided taxes, but did they evade them? We asked an expert why the difference matters.

Be nice if we had a media to refute these claims. Try and Google anything positive about President Trump. Does not work Brother Homer.

[AUFAN78 3,896]

I would guess, based on convo, that no one in the thread has run a large yuuuuge business. Would i be correct?

[AUDub 11,148]

5 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I would guess, based on convo, that no one in the thread has run a large yuuuuge business. Would i be correct?

You really want to appeal to ignorance here? 

[TitanTiger 20,482]

With every passing day, Trump supporters make him look more and more like a prophet.

“I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn’t lose voters.”

[AUFAN78 3,896]

3 minutes ago, AUDub said:

You really want to appeal to ignorance here? 

I'll take that from you as yes, I was correct. Trust me when I tell you this Ben, it was too predictable. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled rhetoric.  

[HVAU 673]

6 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

I would guess, based on convo, that no one in the thread has run a large yuuuuge business. Would i be correct?

That may or may not be the case, but before we go further, is your question to insinuate that a "yuuuuge business" can not be run without a) multiple millions in unethically obtained seed money, b) an acceptance of corrupt business practices, c) a lack of personal morals, and d) a collection of bankruptcies and failed business ventures?  You may be indicating something else, but if you're not I propose that there are businessmen with levels of success far surpassing Trump that can be pointed to.  

[AUFAN78 3,896]

1 hour ago, HVAU said:

That may or may not be the case, but before we go further, is your question to insinuate that a "yuuuuge business" can not be run without a) multiple millions in unethically obtained seed money, b) an acceptance of corrupt business practices, c) a lack of personal morals, and d) a collection of bankruptcies and failed business ventures?  You may be indicating something else, but if you're not I propose that there are businessmen with levels of success far surpassing Trump that can be pointed to.  

In the words of Kamela Harris, it was a simple yes or no question.

[HVAU 673]

58 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

In the words of Kamela Harris, it was a simple yes or no question.

Actually it wasn't.  You made an assumption about the posters here, on a semi-anonymous political forum.  You then asked if you were correct in that assumption.  It isn't good rhetoric to answer questions to which you do not possess knowledge as if you did.  Therefore, I answered "that may or may not be the case."

I then asked a yes or no question to allow you to clarify your insinuation.  

 

[bigbird 60,529]

14 hours ago, HVAU said:

I sure would like to be "self made."

"By age 3, Mr. Trump was earning $200,000 a year in today’s dollars from his father’s empire. He was a millionaire by age 8. By the time he was 17, his father had given him part ownership of a 52-unit apartment building. Soon after Mr. Trump graduated from college, he was receiving the equivalent of $1 million a year from his father. The money increased with the years, to more than $5 million annually in his 40s and 50s."

Well that stinks....all my dad gave me was a stable home, unconditional love, a strong work ethic, and a great role model of a loving Christian husband and father.

 

I win.

[channonc 466]

12 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I do not think they could. Such a bill would have a very difficult time passing constitutional muster, i.e., the Qualifications Clause. It would have to hinge on whether the measure is a substantive qualification for the presidency, or merely procedural. I lean towards the former.  

I looked it up and I was wrong about one piece. It doesn’t require the vote of the House. The Chairman of Ways and Means or the Finave Committee can request the tax returns if any individual or company. Those returns are only allowed to be shared with members of the Committee and committee staff. The returns can not be used in a public setting. A majority of the Committee has to vote whether to share with the other body (i.e. the House Ways and Means Committee can vote to share with the Senate Finace Committee and Vice versa)

[homersapien 11,373]

13 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I would guess, based on convo, that no one in the thread has run a large yuuuuge business. Would i be correct?

I would guess, based on convo, that no one on this forum received  a $400+ million dollar grubstake starting as a child, either.

[homersapien 11,373]

10 hours ago, HVAU said:

Actually it wasn't.  You made an assumption about the posters here, on a semi-anonymous political forum.  You then asked if you were correct in that assumption.  It isn't good rhetoric to answer questions to which you do not possess knowledge as if you did.  Therefore, I answered "that may or may not be the case."

I then asked a yes or no question to allow you to clarify your insinuation.  

 

There is a large contingent on this forum with either no understanding or no respect of what a written debate is, which is the main purpose after all.

[AUDub 11,148]

12 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

I'll take that from you as yes, I was correct. Trust me when I tell you this Ben, it was too predictable. 

Now back to your regularly scheduled rhetoric.  

The crimes committed here are laughably simple. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

5 hours ago, channonc said:

I looked it up and I was wrong about one piece. It doesn’t require the vote of the House. The Chairman of Ways and Means or the Finave Committee can request the tax returns if any individual or company. Those returns are only allowed to be shared with members of the Committee and committee staff. The returns can not be used in a public setting. A majority of the Committee has to vote whether to share with the other body (i.e. the House Ways and Means Committee can vote to share with the Senate Finace Committee and Vice versa)

Right but they can’t force the president to release them. At least that’s my understanding.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

16 hours ago, HVAU said:

Also, the credit default swap were a major contributor to the severity of the recession. To bring them up in as a "he's not the only crook" defense of Trump is interesting considering his anti-regulation position concerning CDSs and the fiduciary rule.

"Federal regulators were attempting to close the loophole at the end of the Obama administration, but the Trump administration appears to have abandoned the effort, he adds."

https://www.npr.org/2018/06/19/621543525/big-banks-are-once-again-taking-risks-with-complex-financial-trades-report-says

 

My point is that you could equally say that about Goldman, JPM, Deutsche, Barclays, ect. They technically engaged in similar tactics. Was an industry-wide mess. Trump wasn’t a RE demon in a hall of saints. 

You know what I mean.

[homersapien 11,373]

15 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Be nice if we had a media to refute these claims. Try and Google anything positive about President Trump. Does not work Brother Homer.

Sorry, but I don't get your point.  Can you please clarify or restate.

[HVAU 673]

2 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

My point is that you could equally say that about Goldman, JPM, Deutsche, Barclays, ect. They technically engaged in similar tactics. Was an industry-wide mess. Trump wasn’t a RE demon in a hall of saints. 

You know what I mean.

I absolutely know what you mean.  I will now hold free whatabout card for a future conversation.  Cheers.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

22 minutes ago, HVAU said:

I absolutely know what you mean.  I will now hold free whatabout card for a future conversation.  Cheers.

That’s not a whatabout card lol. It puts things in perspective. You were putting my cult leader (shout out to Tex) on an island.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

@HVAU now I’m going to have to go watch The Big Short

[HVAU 673]

19 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

That’s not a whatabout card lol. It puts things in perspective. You were putting my cult leader (shout out to Tex) on an island.

Well if it isn't, it certainly lives in the same house.  I read your statement as essentially "sure Trump is crooked, but what about those other big real estate types, aren't they just as bad?" You're citing the bad behavior of other parties to excuse the bad behavior of the Trumps.  

ETA: When we are making arguments criticizing the ethics of someone are we not supposed to place the subject in an island in order to avoid moral relativism?

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

7 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Well if it isn't, it certainly lives in the same house.  I read your statement as essentially "sure Trump is crooked, but what about those other big real estate types, aren't they just as bad?" You're citing the bad behavior of other parties to excuse the bad behavior of the Trumps.  

ETA: When we are making arguments criticizing the ethics of someone are we not supposed to place the subject in an island in order to avoid moral relativism?

I think you know that I am not excusing anyone’s actions. I’m simply citing to the industry-wide mess. I’m sorry if it minimizes the intended effects of the “Trump real estate” jab. 

Neither of us are incorrect in our assertions. We’re saying the same thing in different ways. My approach detracts from the singular impact w/r/t the President. 

I meant no argument. Glad to see you back on the forum!

[HVAU 673]

18 minutes ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I think you know that I am not excusing anyone’s actions. I’m simply citing to the industry-wide mess. I’m sorry if it minimizes the intended effects of the “Trump real estate” jab. 

Neither of us are incorrect in our assertions. We’re saying the same thing in different ways. My approach detracts from the singular impact w/r/t the President. 

I meant no argument. Glad to see you back on the forum!

Right on.  Good to see you on as well.

Breaks from political discourse do a body good.

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

10 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Right on.  Good to see you on as well.

Breaks from political discourse do a body good.

I admit my position in tenuous lol don’t get me wrong.