Would Dye have survived the internet

[AUsince72 11,084]

On 10/24/2018 at 2:11 PM, OnthePlains said:

That’s awesome! I met him once as a kid at a book signing. I still have his book “In the Arena” and I love the dedication in the front where it says Auburn Football...Run the ball, play defense and knock the hell outta folks...

I have that book too. ....signed by Coach Dye. 😁

[Rednilla 5,391]

On 10/23/2018 at 10:44 AM, AURealist said:

Bowl game.

Last year, the bowl game was Malzahn's fourth loss, and his third loss was in an SEC Championship Game that didn't exist in 1985...so if we're comparing regular seasons, it's 10-2 vs. 8-3.

[AURealist 2,185]

16 minutes ago, Rednilla said:

Last year, the bowl game was Malzahn's fourth loss, and his third loss was in an SEC Championship Game that didn't exist in 1985...so if we're comparing regular seasons, it's 10-2 vs. 8-3.

Point taken.  

But we're not really comparing seasons.  We're imagining that the internet existed in 1985 and whether or not Pat Dye would have been on the hot seat because of it.  So, we're looking at Auburn's recent (at the time) history before Dye, that Dye brought the Iron Bowl home and the number and nature of his losses.  I still say he'd survive.

Dye coaching AU today and being on the hot seat would be a different scenario.

[Rednilla 5,391]

3 hours ago, AURealist said:

Point taken.  

But we're not really comparing seasons.  We're imagining that the internet existed in 1985 and whether or not Pat Dye would have been on the hot seat because of it.  So, we're looking at Auburn's recent (at the time) history before Dye, that Dye brought the Iron Bowl home and the number and nature of his losses.  I still say he'd survive.

Dye coaching AU today and being on the hot seat would be a different scenario.

Imagining the internet existed in 85 is a fair point, but Dye didn't bring the Iron Bowl to Jordan-Hare until 89, so that wouldn't have been a sticking point, would it? I honestly ask, because being born only in 84, I don't have a clue what went into those negotiations.

[Swamp Eagle 5,138]

On 10/23/2018 at 1:06 PM, aubaseball said:

The answer to the question is that most people on here would have been screaming to get rid of him.    I saw a lot of games that I shook my head at some of the plays that were called.   People would have been screaming for him to go because of the wishbone offense that he ran.  Don’t look at what he did after 86, the question was on the 84 / 85 seasons 

Most on here must be between the ages of 6 and 30. The rest of us were alive during that time, and I can tell you unequivocally that none of us were screaming for his head. We had just recently endured true misery from 1975 until he got there. 

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

On 10/23/2018 at 4:26 PM, AURealist said:

Time spent in that kind of hell twists a man.  Your opinion is tainted.

It was trying times man. I did get kicked out of my girlfriends house when Bo trucked Boz though.

[Texan4Auburn 1,626]

The real question wouldn't be the internet. It would be if fans had the same what have you done for me lately attitude that they do now.

Remember in the 70 and 80's very few teams had the big time coach and stability. Osbourne at Nebraska, Paterno at Penn State, Switzer at OU for example. I even think all 3 of those guys were promoted from within to the HC position?

[AURealist 2,185]

2 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Imagining the internet existed in 85 is a fair point, but Dye didn't bring the Iron Bowl to Jordan-Hare until 89, so that wouldn't have been a sticking point, would it? I honestly ask, because being born only in 84, I don't have a clue what went into those negotiations.

The negotiations to move the Iron bowl began when Dye became head coach and AD.  The IB didn't actually get to Auburn until later, but that was the last step of a multi-step deal.  IIRC, State law had previously required the IB to be played at the largest stadium in the state.  That pissed AU fans off to no end because it was basically a UAT home game every year.  AU was building onto J-H stadium with plans to make it the largest stadium in the state (which I think was finished in '87?), which helped to seal the deal.  Which is funny, because by law all IBs would have to be played in Auburn, right?  Anyway, we students were aware of the controversy, knowing Dye was pushing for the change.   We loved him for it.  

It was funny, because I was from out of state and when I heard it was state law to play at Legion Field, I didn't believe it.  I thought it was absolutely crazy.

[Rednilla 5,391]

1 hour ago, AURealist said:

The negotiations to move the Iron bowl began when Dye became head coach and AD.  The IB didn't actually get to Auburn until later, but that was the last step of a multi-step deal.  IIRC, State law had previously required the IB to be played at the largest stadium in the state.  That pissed AU fans off to no end because it was basically a UAT home game every year.  AU was building onto J-H stadium with plans to make it the largest stadium in the state (which I think was finished in '87?), which helped to seal the deal.  Which is funny, because by law all IBs would have to be played in Auburn, right?  Anyway, we students were aware of the controversy, knowing Dye was pushing for the change.   We loved him for it.  

It was funny, because I was from out of state and when I heard it was state law to play at Legion Field, I didn't believe it.  I thought it was absolutely crazy.

Didn't realize it was state law that the Iron Bowl had to be played in the largest stadium, but that has got to have Bear's fingerprints all over it. I've known full well how much it was a home game for Bama every year, considering the number of other games they played in Legion Field (not to mention the proximity to hell's outhouse). The push to bring Alabama back to Auburn for the first time since restarting the series would certainly endear fans to Dye, even the some of the rabid ones online today.

Still, the fact that it can take a while to build a consistent winner is one that can't be overlooked. I still consider Dye the best coach in modern Auburn football (Donahue would give him a run for his money if comparing eras), but it took some time for him to get securely planted as The Man (even if he SHOULD have won a national championship in 83). I'm hopeful that Malzahn can get out of his own way enough to become the CEO we need as the face of the program, contribute where he excels (power run game) and let a more seasoned OC take the reigns of the offense...or even let Lindsey run his own full playbook. I think ending the micromanagement of the offense would go a long way toward us becoming more unpredictable. Hell, get John Samuel Shenker involved in the passing game and add a different element for defenses to have to worry about.

If we do get a new OC next year, I really hope it's one of the Briles boys. I don't like what they allowed to happen in Waco, but they know how to coach offense with the kind of players we have. Maybe get Art as the OC and give him the reigns kinda like what Gus has done with Steele and the defense: two seasoned vets with (hopefully) no desire to be the front man anymore to run the offense and defense, while Gus starts learning how to manage the press better and keeps up the recruiting (which is his primary selling point at this time, because we've continued to pull a lot of talent). Kendal seems more the type to bolt for a head coaching job, which isn't a bad thing, just leads to less security in the coordinators.

Hey, a guy can dream, right? Whatever happens, I sincerely hope that this bye week is being well used, and we'll come out a different team against A&M than we have been most of the year. I know it probably won't happen, but again, a guy can dream.

[AURealist 2,185]

8 hours ago, Rednilla said:

Didn't realize it was state law that the Iron Bowl had to be played in the largest stadium, but that has got to have Bear's fingerprints all over it. I've known full well how much it was a home game for Bama every year, considering the number of other games they played in Legion Field (not to mention the proximity to hell's outhouse). The push to bring Alabama back to Auburn for the first time since restarting the series would certainly endear fans to Dye, even the some of the rabid ones online today.

Still, the fact that it can take a while to build a consistent winner is one that can't be overlooked. I still consider Dye the best coach in modern Auburn football (Donahue would give him a run for his money if comparing eras), but it took some time for him to get securely planted as The Man (even if he SHOULD have won a national championship in 83). I'm hopeful that Malzahn can get out of his own way enough to become the CEO we need as the face of the program, contribute where he excels (power run game) and let a more seasoned OC take the reigns of the offense...or even let Lindsey run his own full playbook. I think ending the micromanagement of the offense would go a long way toward us becoming more unpredictable. Hell, get John Samuel Shenker involved in the passing game and add a different element for defenses to have to worry about.

If we do get a new OC next year, I really hope it's one of the Briles boys. I don't like what they allowed to happen in Waco, but they know how to coach offense with the kind of players we have. Maybe get Art as the OC and give him the reigns kinda like what Gus has done with Steele and the defense: two seasoned vets with (hopefully) no desire to be the front man anymore to run the offense and defense, while Gus starts learning how to manage the press better and keeps up the recruiting (which is his primary selling point at this time, because we've continued to pull a lot of talent). Kendal seems more the type to bolt for a head coaching job, which isn't a bad thing, just leads to less security in the coordinators.

Hey, a guy can dream, right? Whatever happens, I sincerely hope that this bye week is being well used, and we'll come out a different team against A&M than we have been most of the year. I know it probably won't happen, but again, a guy can dream.

The history of Auburn athletics is a very interesting and entertaining one.  It's been decades since my own research, but the state law to play the IB in Legion Field arose from the reluctance of teams  (UAt, UTenn and GT and maybe a few others) to come to Auburn because the roads were so bad.  In earlier days, teams came by rail, but they wouldn't come by bus in the automotive era.  Not certain that Bryant ever played a part, but UAt fans were not happy at the thought of the game returning to Auburn, which of course made us like the idea even better.  

If you haven't yet researched Auburn football lore, here's an Auburn story you'll enjoy: https://www.thewareaglereader.com/2013/03/usa-today-1896-auburn-prank-on-georgia-tech-second-best-in-college-sports-history/. 

Look, I understand the desire for Gus to succeed.  Life would be easier for everyone if he would just pull it together and do smart things. But here are a few things some of us older guys know about people in general that taint our faith in Gus changing:

Gus is control freak and control freaks only squeeze tighter when stressed.  They're the pilot's who fail to eject from a tail-spining aircraft because they just know they can 'save it'.  To be successful, Gus would need to turn things over to his coordinators.  Control freaks just can't bring themselves to do that sort of thing.

People tend to stick with the formula/methods that won them success in the first place until they're forced to change.  Thanks to Slippin Jimmy, Auburn has no leverage to force any changes to the way Gus runs things.  

Gus is an introvert.  He's not getting better with the press. 

The human mind becomes less flexible as one ages.  So if you think Gus is stuck now, well, you're right, but he's likely going get even be less flexible in the next 7 years.

Due to the way the human mind develops and ages, the best predictor of a man's future behavior is his past behavior.  In my experience, very few people change their personalities for the better after the age of 40 without some Divine help and, while I'm fairly certain God is an Auburn fan, I'm confident He's not going to change Gus Malzahn's personality to save the football program.  

Good luck on the new OC idea.  The world now knows he designs and runs his own offense no matter who sits in the OC carseat next to him.  No OC worth his salt is going to OC under Gus.  The caveat to that may be someone who is fresh out of high school or a small college who wants to learn the ropes or someone looking to rejuvenate their reputation.  But again, the steering wheel in the OC carseat is for show and not physically attached to the rack and pinion system on the Gus Bus.  

As far as the aTm game goes, I think we can win it or not.  I don't believe it's a foregone conclusion we lose.  We have great players who play their hearts out and can make great plays.  Gus may tweak a few things, but don't get your hopes up for different.  

[aubaseball 2,609]

12 hours ago, Swamp Eagle said:

Most on here must be between the ages of 6 and 30. The rest of us were alive during that time, and I can tell you unequivocally that none of us were screaming for his head. We had just recently endured true misery from 1975 until he got there. 

That wasn’t the question asked, it was if he were coaching now.   And the answer would be yes.   Besides 83, he was trending down and auburn lost to two bad Alabama teams in a row.   

[Swamp Eagle 5,138]

21 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

That wasn’t the question asked, it was if he were coaching now.   And the answer would be yes.   Besides 83, he was trending down and auburn lost to two bad Alabama teams in a row.   

Duly noted. Hmmm...I'd have to not know now what I knew then to scream for ol' PFD's head.

[aubaseball 2,609]

4 minutes ago, Swamp Eagle said:

Duly noted. Hmmm...I'd have to not know now what I knew then to scream for ol' PFD's head.

I agree.    Hard to complain about the 3 to 4 seasons following 85.   I didn’t like it that he was the AD because I saw how the other sports suffered with facility upgrades because he was all about football 

[AURealist 2,185]

33 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

That wasn’t the question asked, it was if he were coaching now.   And the answer would be yes.   Besides 83, he was trending down and auburn lost to two bad Alabama teams in a row.   

The question asked:  "...how many of you would have been calling for Pat's job at the end of the 1985 season?" + if the internet existed then. 

Swamp Eagles's assumptions and answer were correct.

[aubaseball 2,609]

4 minutes ago, AURealist said:

The question asked:  "...how many of you would have been calling for Pat's job at the end of the 1985 season?" + if the internet existed then. 

Swamp Eagles's assumptions and answer were correct.

The title is would Dye have survived the internet?   The internet can be a terrible monster and I believe the answer is that these same conversations would be happening about Dye as they are with Gus.   At the minimum, this board would have been calling for him to drop the AD position 

[AURealist 2,185]

11 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

The title is would Dye have survived the internet?   The internet can be a terrible monster and I believe the answer is that these same conversations would be happening about Dye as they are with Gus.   At the minimum, this board would have been calling for him to drop the AD position 

Titles don't tell all.  Be sure to read the posts.

I agree that Dye should not have been made AD as well as HC.  I recall a member of the wrestling team on the verge of tears shouting anti-Dye rants on the Quad when Dye's cuts for the other sports programs were announced.  

[AUsince72 11,084]

I don't think '84 would have created that much of a hot seat.  After all Bo went down in game 2, the losses were to national powers Miami & Texas, and the offense actually chugged along great w/out Bo except for the UF game and the 1 mistake (by Bo himself) that cost the IB.  The season was a disappointment but without Bo, they were cut a lot of slack.

Now '85 might have created a hot seat as they clearly got beat by teams they shouldn't have with Bo taking himself out of the UT & UF games.  Auburn did catch a lot of heat that year but the Bo for Heisman campaign at least was a good distraction.

'86-'89 was Auburn's most dominant period ever, I believe, so only the hardest (& dumbest) message board warriors would have taken issue.

[Rednilla 5,391]

11 hours ago, AURealist said:

The history of Auburn athletics is a very interesting and entertaining one.  It's been decades since my own research, but the state law to play the IB in Legion Field arose from the reluctance of teams  (UAt, UTenn and GT and maybe a few others) to come to Auburn because the roads were so bad.  In earlier days, teams came by rail, but they wouldn't come by bus in the automotive era.  Not certain that Bryant ever played a part, but UAt fans were not happy at the thought of the game returning to Auburn, which of course made us like the idea even better.  

If you haven't yet researched Auburn football lore, here's an Auburn story you'll enjoy: https://www.thewareaglereader.com/2013/03/usa-today-1896-auburn-prank-on-georgia-tech-second-best-in-college-sports-history/. 

Look, I understand the desire for Gus to succeed.  Life would be easier for everyone if he would just pull it together and do smart things. But here are a few things some of us older guys know about people in general that taint our faith in Gus changing:

Gus is control freak and control freaks only squeeze tighter when stressed.  They're the pilot's who fail to eject from a tail-spining aircraft because they just know they can 'save it'.  To be successful, Gus would need to turn things over to his coordinators.  Control freaks just can't bring themselves to do that sort of thing.

People tend to stick with the formula/methods that won them success in the first place until they're forced to change.  Thanks to Slippin Jimmy, Auburn has no leverage to force any changes to the way Gus runs things.  

Gus is an introvert.  He's not getting better with the press. 

The human mind becomes less flexible as one ages.  So if you think Gus is stuck now, well, you're right, but he's likely going get even be less flexible in the next 7 years.

Due to the way the human mind develops and ages, the best predictor of a man's future behavior is his past behavior.  In my experience, very few people change their personalities for the better after the age of 40 without some Divine help and, while I'm fairly certain God is an Auburn fan, I'm confident He's not going to change Gus Malzahn's personality to save the football program.  

Good luck on the new OC idea.  The world now knows he designs and runs his own offense no matter who sits in the OC carseat next to him.  No OC worth his salt is going to OC under Gus.  The caveat to that may be someone who is fresh out of high school or a small college who wants to learn the ropes or someone looking to rejuvenate their reputation.  But again, the steering wheel in the OC carseat is for show and not physically attached to the rack and pinion system on the Gus Bus.  

As far as the aTm game goes, I think we can win it or not.  I don't believe it's a foregone conclusion we lose.  We have great players who play their hearts out and can make great plays.  Gus may tweak a few things, but don't get your hopes up for different.  

I may not be as sure about all these things as you are, but that doesn't mean I can't recognize the wisdom in your words. Even if you're completely right, maybe having a mobile QB in either Willis or Gatewood next year, plus the year of experience on the line, will bring back the dynamics that made the offense so great with Cam and Marshall.

[Mikey 16,600]

I knew that the state legislature passed the law that UAT and AU were to play annually, thus the series resumption in 1948. This is the first I've heard of the requirement that the game be played in the state's largest stadium.

About Dye after the '85 season: I don't think people were so full of instant gratification needs as they seem to be today. Also, Bo had just won the Heisman. I remember hoping for better seasons to come, but if there was grumbling about changing the coach I didn't hear it.

[gulftiger66 166]

On October 23, 2018 at 12:30 PM, AURealist said:

Bingo.

I don't think this year's team has rolled over for anyone.  

[AURealist 2,185]

7 hours ago, gulftiger66 said:

I don't think this year's team has rolled over for anyone.  

Does anyone?

[AUsince72 11,084]

8 hours ago, Mikey said:

I knew that the state legislature passed the law that UAT and AU were to play annually, thus the series resumption in 1948. This is the first I've heard of the requirement that the game be played in the state's largest stadium.

About Dye after the '85 season: I don't think people were so full of instant gratification needs as they seem to be today. Also, Bo had just won the Heisman. I remember hoping for better seasons to come, but if there was grumbling about changing the coach I didn't hear it.

That's where the "internet" part comes in.  I'm sure there were grumbles but if you heard them, they were just a newspaper editorial here or guys sitting at the bar there...

It's given a voice to those who probably shouldn't really have one.  I believe today, a low "grumble meter", in reality (regarding anything in life now), gets magnified to a "tidalwave of discontent" because of social media & message boards.

[aujeff11 6,243]

19 minutes ago, AURealist said:

Does anyone?

Kirk Herbstreit apparently.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

On 10/25/2018 at 4:34 PM, AUsince72 said:

I have that book too. ....signed by Coach Dye. 😁

Yep he signed mine too...one of my prized possessions on my bookcase with my degree and my Dale Murphy signed baseball.  My son has a Tubby signed hat and at one point I had the 1994 highlights video signed by Bowden but misplaced it. 

[WarDamnEagleWDE 12,737]

On 10/23/2018 at 9:58 AM, im4aual said:

In 1984, Auburn was preseason #1, that team (with a backfield of Bo Jackson, Brent Fullwood, and Tommie Agee) lost four game (including to a bama team with a losing record) and ended up in the Liberty Bowl.  The next year Auburn started off #2, but moved to #1 the second week of the season.  That team also lost four games, with a Heisman winner at tailback.  I'm not comparing Pat and Gus, just their situations.  So, honestly, how many of you would have been calling for Pat's job at the end of the 1985 season?  He had just finished his 5th season, and had one SEC title and back to back disappointing seasons.  Now, the next four years he would beat bama four straight times and win three SEC titles - but nobody knew that in 1985.  Just curious how many of you would be calling for his firing, or at least removal as athletic director.  

Year 3 of an absolute rebuild of a team like the one Pat took over to year 6 of Gus? Come on OP, don’t be dumb. Every situation is very different. 

Dye had his problems but fixed them for the most part. Gus just does nothing. He isn’t the problem. Hires Grimes back, who was moved on from AU in the first place.