Marshall Column: A Matter of Leadership

[corchjay 5,311]

Big issues like this article and what has been spewed from Marshall, Marcelo, Crepea and the likes are that they don’t like Gus because he doesn’t give them the access or information that other coaches in the past have.  Gus doesn’t gladhand the reports and boosters.  He barely involves himself in other sports at the university.  He will when the spot light is big but generally he just stays in his lane.  He’s just a weird dude but that doesn’t make him a bad coach.  If held to the same standards that is now being placed on Gus we will never have a “good” coach.  Maybe he has split the fans in some way not sure how but maybe he has.  Overall resume in the first 5 years is higher then any coach we have had in modern football except possibly Bowden.  He won 10 games like Gus and was let go in the middle of the next season.  

I’m not saying Auburn can’t be that 10-11 win team every year but I am saying that there are and have been every type of coach you can imagine come to AU and try and haven’t been able to.  

And for those that are saying for once go hire a proven coach blah blah blah... what proven coach is going to come to a fan base with zero patience.  We fired Bowden midseason the year after he won 10 games, we fired Tuberville the first season he lost to bama after defeating them 6 straight years, we fired Chizik 2 years removed from a MNC.  

[Cozmo 54]

39 minutes ago, corchjay said:

There is nothing secret going on within the program.  Just haven’t played well on offense and with an offensive centered head coach that doesn’t fly well.  But the OC of 2 years now shares in that responsibility as well.

 

One guy needs to share a great majority of the blame, and one guy only...

That is not for debate..

[Cozmo 54]

33 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Big issues like this article and what has been spewed from Marshall, Marcelo, Crepea and the likes are that they don’t like Gus because he doesn’t give them the access or information that other coaches in the past have.  Gus doesn’t gladhand the reports and boosters.  He barely involves himself in other sports at the university.  He will when the spot light is big but generally he just stays in his lane.  He’s just a weird dude but that doesn’t make him a bad coach.  If held to the same standards that is now being placed on Gus we will never have a “good” coach.  Maybe he has split the fans in some way not sure how but maybe he has.  Overall resume in the first 5 years is higher then any coach we have had in modern football except possibly Bowden.  He won 10 games like Gus and was let go in the middle of the next season.  

I’m not saying Auburn can’t be that 10-11 win team every year but I am saying that there are and have been every type of coach you can imagine come to AU and try and haven’t been able to.  

And for those that are saying for once go hire a proven coach blah blah blah... what proven coach is going to come to a fan base with zero patience.  We fired Bowden midseason the year after he won 10 games, we fired Tuberville the first season he lost to bama after defeating them 6 straight years, we fired Chizik 2 years removed from a MNC.  

 

We, along with UGA, have also had the least amount of head coaching turnover in the SEC the last 25 years, the last 30 years, the last 40 years, the last 50 years etc....

That “zero patience” crap is a farce, especially after 6 years.  

[DAG 34,003]

30 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Big issues like this article and what has been spewed from Marshall, Marcelo, Crepea and the likes are that they don’t like Gus because he doesn’t give them the access or information that other coaches in the past have.  Gus doesn’t gladhand the reports and boosters.  He barely involves himself in other sports at the university.  He will when the spot light is big but generally he just stays in his lane.  He’s just a weird dude but that doesn’t make him a bad coach.  If held to the same standards that is now being placed on Gus we will never have a “good” coach.  Maybe he has split the fans in some way not sure how but maybe he has.  Overall resume in the first 5 years is higher then any coach we have had in modern football except possibly Bowden.  He won 10 games like Gus and was let go in the middle of the next season.  

I’m not saying Auburn can’t be that 10-11 win team every year but I am saying that there are and have been every type of coach you can imagine come to AU and try and haven’t been able to.  

And for those that are saying for once go hire a proven coach blah blah blah... what proven coach is going to come to a fan base with zero patience.  We fired Bowden midseason the year after he won 10 games, we fired Tuberville the first season he lost to bama after defeating them 6 straight years, we fired Chizik 2 years removed from a MNC.  

Again this is a false narrative . Auburn is one of the few schools who give their coaches the most opportunities. Since 1980 of all the Big Six schools, we have had the second least amount of head coaches. I think UGA leads us by 1 less coach. I don’t know where this narrative came from and the three coaches who got fired , definitely were justifiable fires, unless you are arguing otherwise.

[DAG 34,003]

Just now, Cozmo said:

 

We, along with UGA, have also had the least amount of head coaching turnover in the SEC the last 25 years, the last 30 years, the last 40 years, the last 50 years etc....

That “zero patience” crap is a farce, especially after 6 years.  

Thank you.  I legitimately researched this and just posted the same thing  haha

[Cozmo 54]

4 minutes ago, PTOTiger said:

You my friend...get it...nicely said.

Thank you, bud. 

I just cannot stand the false narrative that Gus supporters try to throw out there.  You can say he’s a good guy,  recruits solid citizens, runs a clean program etc, but these excuses/lies some are making over and over for a guy in his 6th season averaging 5 losses a year while being paid as a top five coach is ridiculous.  Some of them have to be trolls because they certainly do not have Auburn’s best interest at heart. 

 

If one wants Gus to stay because of the good qualities I mentioned above, then just say that and I’ll appreciate that.  But, to put down the fan base and place blame on the players he actually recruits and develops makes zero sense at all IMO. 

[Cozmo 54]

9 minutes ago, DAG said:

Thank you.  I legitimately researched this and just posted the same thing  haha

 

 

Yeah, I hate when people try to blame us for wanting to win now and act like we have zero patience.  It’s completely false and is disproven rather easily.  

 

Here’s an example, Tuberville was actually worse record wise after five seasons than Gus, but he had the support of the fans because we already saw him make tough changes to coordinators and we trusted he could turn it around after 2003 with the right guy, just like he did in firing Mazzone and bringing in Petrino after 2001.   We’ve never seen that with Gus and never will, and we all know that...

 

[Beaker 2,457]

Quick note about a proven coach willing to come to Auburn:  if you want to win,  you can do it at Auburn.  

I doubt many programs in the SEC can say their last 5 coaches have all won a conference championship or had undefeated seasons!  Bama can't, Thuga can't,  UF can't, LSU can't, .....you get my point.  

Gus and Chiz both coached in the NC game, both in this decade.  All 5 proved you can recruit and win at Auburn... (I know Bowden and recruiting...., I am not willing to split hairs here).

I too hope Gus and Auburn win tomorrow.  But Gus hasn't shown he has the ability to get out of the way of his own ego, unfortunately.   And we are way overmatched on the OL....but maybe!

[Cozmo 54]

8 minutes ago, Beaker said:

Quick note about a proven coach willing to come to Auburn:  if you want to win,  you can do it at Auburn.  

I doubt many programs in the SEC can say their last 5 coaches have all won a conference championship or had undefeated seasons!  Bama can't, Thuga can't,  UF can't, LSU can't, .....you get my point.  

Gus and Chiz both coached in the NC game, both in this decade.  All 5 proved you can recruit and win at Auburn... (I know Bowden and recruiting...., I am not willing to split hairs here).

I too hope Gus and Auburn win tomorrow.  But Gus hasn't shown he has the ability to get out of the way of his own ego, unfortunately.   And we are way overmatched on the OL....but maybe!

 

 

Exactly. 

[corchjay 5,311]

1 hour ago, Cozmo said:

 

One guy needs to share a great majority of the blame, and one guy only...

That is not for debate..

Didn’t say he didn’t share the majority does he get the majority of the credit last year tho?  It has to work both ways. That’s the problem it doesn’t it’s everythig wrong is Gus and everything right is someone else.  That’s the point.  

There’s legitimate talking points on each side of the argument I don’t understand why we keep having the same debate day after day in every thread on the board.  I respect both sides of the arguments and at the end of the day we will see who is right and who is wrong.  For this year the people that say Gus is an idiot and meddler seems to be right even tho reality is we are just and average team not a bad or terrible team.  Last year those same are/were wrong as we had a very good team and good offense.  Next year I assume we will finish with a better record, offense, and lower defensive numbers.  Probably 2nd in the West depending on how Mond at aTm develops.  And the next 2 years after 2020 and 2021 a lot depends on how recruiting goes and how well we fill the needs on the team.  But the next “playoff” run I would expect it to be 2021 no matter who the coach is.  I can’t see the future and no one on here can.  Last year was our shot but we missed because we were down to a 3rd strong change of pace back that just couldn’t do what our O needed.  

[Cozmo 54]

3 minutes ago, corchjay said:

Didn’t say he didn’t share the majority does he get the majority of the credit last year tho?  It has to work both ways. That’s the problem it doesn’t it’s everythig wrong is Gus and everything right is someone else.  That’s the point.  

There’s legitimate talking points on each side of the argument I don’t understand why we keep having the same debate day after day in every thread on the board.  I respect both sides of the arguments and at the end of the day we will see who is right and who is wrong.  For this year the people that say Gus is an idiot and meddler seems to be right even tho reality is we are just and average team not a bad or terrible team.  Last year those same are/were wrong as we had a very good team and good offense.  Next year I assume we will finish with a better record, offense, and lower defensive numbers.  Probably 2nd in the West depending on how Mond at aTm develops.  And the next 2 years after 2020 and 2021 a lot depends on how recruiting goes and how well we fill the needs on the team.  But the next “playoff” run I would expect it to be 2021 no matter who the coach is.  I can’t see the future and no one on here can.  Last year was our shot but we missed because we were down to a 3rd strong change of pace back that just couldn’t do what our O needed.  

 

And whose fault was that?  UGA just replaced arguably the greatest RB duo in SEC history yardage wise with Swift, Holyfield, etc while having arguably their best RB on team not even play a down due to injury.  

 

Are we to just accept excuses while everyone else is either improving (AM, UF, UT, LSU etc) or already running laps around us? 

 

And next year better?  We play Oregon, at LSU, at UF, at AM, UGA, Bama etc.  All of those teams will return the same or more than we do...

[corchjay 5,311]

2 minutes ago, Cozmo said:

 

And whose fault was that?  UGA just replaced arguably the greatest RB duo in SEC history yardage wise with Swift, Holyfield, etc while having arguably their best RB on team not even play a down due to injury.  

 

Are we to just accept excuses while everyone else is either improving (AM, UF, UT, LSU etc) or already running laps around us? 

 

And next year better?  We play Oregon, at LSU, at UF, at AM, UGA, Bama etc.  All of those teams will return the same or more than we do...

If Chubb and Sony went out for UGA last year the week before the SEC championship we would have murdered UGA again.  Remember we lost Pettway and KJ (essentially) for that game.  So we had to go to KMart.  

Swift and Holyfield are just now coming into their own.  Similar to Boobee yet they have a year on him.  They weren’t the same at the beginning of the year as they are now.  See LSU game for an example... if UGA and LSU played tomorrow UGA would win.  

Who is laying down excuses I’m pointing out facts.  And no one knows how UF will improve, no one knows what LSU will be without a transfer QB and what if Aranda leaves, Bama ain’t going anywhere until recruiting goes down, UGA is yet to be seen if all the talent they are loading up comes to championships or just the same ol same ol for them.  The East is so bad Mizz is probably the second best team on that side but they have no consistency.  So I don’t see anyone lapping is at all.  

[Cozmo 54]

1 minute ago, corchjay said:

If Chubb and Sony went out for UGA last year the week before the SEC championship we would have murdered UGA again.  Remember we lost Pettway and KJ (essentially) for that game.  So we had to go to KMart.  

Swift and Holyfield are just now coming into their own.  Similar to Boobee yet they have a year on him.  They weren’t the same at the beginning of the year as they are now.  See LSU game for an example... if UGA and LSU played tomorrow UGA would win.  

Who is laying down excuses I’m pointing out facts.  And no one knows how UF will improve, no one knows what LSU will be without a transfer QB and what if Aranda leaves, Bama ain’t going anywhere until recruiting goes down, UGA is yet to be seen if all the talent they are loading up comes to championships or just the same ol same ol for them.  The East is so bad Mizz is probably the second best team on that side but they have no consistency.  So I don’t see anyone lapping is at all.  

 

Chubb and Michel not playing would’ve had nothing to do with us using the exact same game plan on offense that we used 3 weeks prior.  Swift put the dagger in us last year, regardless..  

You don’t see Bama and UGA lapping us? They both outrecruit us while also outcoaching us before, during, and after the games.  And,  I’m not even talking about development yet as that is on a whole different level.  You don’t see LSU, UF, AM, UT etc improving?   Coach O is 2-0 against us while using backup Big Ten QBs and with a guy Tuberville wouldn’t even trust to have complete control over Hugh Nall.  Heaven forbid if LSU actually gets that side of the ball rolling...

[AUwent 3,763]

So Wazzu’s loss makes desireable HC candidates for next year/whenever Gustsv is canned a bit murkier. Just not a very good crop of coaching candidates this year.

My number one choice would still be Venables. But heck, I would take Freeze.

Ultimately, the state of our OL is the reason we need desperately a change. Now if Gustav can go out and make a great OL coach hire, I think the possibility of keeping him for the long run might be there—that’s a BIG “if,” mind you.

[auburnphan 6,050]

9 hours ago, corchjay said:

There is nothing secret going on within the program.  Just haven’t played well on offense and with an offensive centered head coach that doesn’t fly well.  But the OC of 2 years now shares in that responsibility as well.

B.S.  Detector just exploded.  Anyone that states this has no clue what is really going on with the coaches.  And for those of you asking Chip will not say much of anything as that is not how it works in the coaching industry.  if he wants another job as @augolf1716  implied. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

7 hours ago, Cozmo said:

 

Chubb and Michel not playing would’ve had nothing to do with us using the exact same game plan on offense that we used 3 weeks prior.  Swift put the dagger in us last year, regardless..  

You don’t see Bama and UGA lapping us? They both outrecruit us while also outcoaching us before, during, and after the games.  And,  I’m not even talking about development yet as that is on a whole different level.  You don’t see LSU, UF, AM, UT etc improving?   Coach O is 2-0 against us while using backup Big Ten QBs and with a guy Tuberville wouldn’t even trust to have complete control over Hugh Nall.  Heaven forbid if LSU actually gets that side of the ball rolling...

good thing that guy coaches baseball.

[AU-HANDLEY-TIGER 205]

1 hour ago, AUwent said:

So Wazzu’s loss makes desireable HC candidates for next year/whenever Gustsv is canned a bit murkier. Just not a very good crop of coaching candidates this year.

My number one choice would still be Venables. But heck, I would take Freeze.

Ultimately, the state of our OL is the reason we need desperately a change. Now if Gustav can go out and make a great OL coach hire, I think the possibility of keeping him for the long run might be there—that’s a BIG “if,” mind you.

Better hurry Texas Tech rumor is they are talking with Venables.

[Swamp Eagle 5,144]

12 hours ago, AUFriction said:

CAREFUL. I said something similar a few weeks ago, and got crucified from every corner.

You aren’t alone. I somewhat agree with your post, but for a different reason. The “blame Gus” mentality on this board is predictable. When people can’t find an obvious source of blame, they rush to judgment on a scapegoat, which, in football, is almost always the head coach or the quarterback. 

The reality is that things aren’t usually that simple. There’s not one single factor causing our struggles. But there’s also not ONE cause of our struggles. Gus is partially to blame for the inept offense this season, and to at least partially to blame for some of the issues in previous seasons. However, there are some bad play calls this season that look nothing like a Gus Malzahn offensive play. The OL has under achieved. That could be Gus’s fault for hiring a bad OL coach in the off-season, or Gus may have made a good hire to replace a bad one. It is possible that he saw Herb Hand’s players digressing, and wanted to bring in a better coach. QB play has been inconsistent this year. That’s either on Lindsay for bad coaching, it’s on the offensive line for making Stidham jumpy, or it is on Stidham for not keeping his head in the game, or it could be some of all three. You could attach some blame to Gus, but sometimes you have to take a chance on an unknown. Lindsay’s background suggested that he would be able to do an okay job.

I’m rambling. But my point is that Gus probably is partially to blame for this season, but I agree that people are overstepping by trying to put it all directly at his feet.

Well, I tend to hold accountable the one involved to whom much was given to oversee the program... and it's not the $14/hour facility custodian.

[ChltteTiger 649]

19 hours ago, Squidward2016 said:

I'm not saying gus doesn't have problems. But we need to start being correct on what they actually are.

Remember we beat a top 15 team for the season opener- this shows he has gotten better at preparing his team before the season rather than in October. Not perfect yet, but a clear improvement in this facet.

LSU was a stolen fluke. We all know that without literally a single one of those phantom PI calls (or Jarrett's pick) we win the game and go into MSST undefeated and probably #5 or 6 in the country. 

MSST was a poor showing, but while a lot of things could be improved, the absolute biggest was this: 3 WIDE open deep receivers (sounds like good play calling and design to me) that our QB missed. A fumbled punt return. A fumbled touchdown by boobie. That on top of nick tearing through our defense. And had we beaten LSU, I bet our execution/fire would have been higher, but that's besides the point. Absolutely not on playcalling. 

Tennessee: Jarrett stidham throws 2 completely ridiculous interceptions that are on no one but him (yes the OL hurt him, but he had time to throw away and tried to force throws instead). Then he fumbles for a scoop and score- that fumble was understandable, but the picks were not. Our game plan that game was great and we had consistent throws downfield and utilization of our freshman talent. Our OL and QB lost us this game. 

So far, I challenge an intellectual argument for why any of these losses are on play calling, "meddling with chip", or any of the other recycled arguments we use against gus after every loss. No doubt he is at fault for the overall performance of the team as HC. But we are not here simply to assign blame, we're here to decide whether he is the man to fix it. 

Throughout gus's tenure he's had a lot of different mistakes. 2014 his defense collapsed so he hired the best DC in the game. Good on him. 

2015 his star QB was a bust, he put in the freshman backup, and we actually improved significantly throughout the season before Sean got injured before UGA and it all went to crap again. 

2016 same story. Started rolling and looked nearly elite before Sean, pettway, and Chandler all got injured before UGA and we had to play guess who, JJ andJF3 again. Without the injuries these two years we bead uga both times for sure and have a shot to beat Bama in 2016. 

This year's problems have a very clear underlying trend :  Inexperienced OL play and underwhelming QB play. 

I get this sounds like constant excuses for gus. But these are legitimate reasons mostly outside his control that screwed us. His depth at certain offensive positions has been his most consistent problem, and that really seems like something that's fixable for a young coach.

Gus makes way to much $$ to be given a pass for all of these bad losses.

 Why do you conveniently ignore the inability to score any points against UGA in the 2nd half at their stadium every single time we play there?

[AURealist 2,185]

Michigan:  

Rich Rodriguez 2008

3–9 (2–6 Big Ten)

5–7 (1–7 Big Ten)

7–6 (3–5 Big Ten)

FIRED

Brady Hoke

11–2 (6–2 Big Ten)

11–2 (6–2 Big Ten)

7–6 (3–5 Big Ten)

5–7 (3–5 Big Ten)

FIRED

The University of Michigan made the conscious decision to be a top tier team.  

Auburn University has not.

 

 

 

[Maverick.AU 13,281]

https://auburn.247sports.com/Topic/What-I-have-said-and-what-I-havent-said-125171279/

[AU64 10,122]

11 hours ago, JDUBB4AU said:

We all lose in this debate. Nobody walks away a winner

Well the whiners seem to be the winners   

They mostly manage to drive away anyone with opposing views.

[AUsince72 11,084]

5 minutes ago, AU64 said:

Well the whiners seem to be the winners   

They mostly manage to drive away anyone with opposing views.

Depends on what side of the fence you're on as to who the "whiners" are.  

As to opposing views, many on the one side gives credible, fact based opinion & often even pure fact, backed up by example.  Plus, they try to specifically stick to keeping their comments about the subject at hand, Gus and Auburn....usually, only directing comments at posters as specifically addressed, answering questions or defending themselves or their position.

Many on the other side just derides those posters and calls them non-fans and gives almost no actual fact-based information proving why Gus IS the best choice for Auburn.  Just "I (blindly) support the coach, no matter who he is or what he does or how bad the team plays".

I don't hold you to that 2nd group necessarily as you do often logically think about things and I find you good to converse/debate with.  But please don't join the ones who basically only Whine about "whiners".  I know you're better than that!

War Eagle!

[AURealist 2,185]

Notre Dame

Bob Davie 1997

7-6

9-3

5-7

9-3

5-6

FIRED

Tyrone Willingham 2002 

10-3

5-7

6-6

FIRED

Charlie Weis  2005

9-3

10-3

3-9

7-6

6-6

FIRED

The University of Notre Dame made the conscious decision to be a top tier team.  

Auburn University has not.

 

[corchjay 5,311]

2 hours ago, auburnphan said:

B.S.  Detector just exploded.  Anyone that states this has no clue what is really going on with the coaches.  And for those of you asking Chip will not say much of anything as that is not how it works in the coaching industry.  if he wants another job as @augolf1716  implied. 

Trust me on this if anyone knows what’s going on with Chip it’s me.  And if you don’t believe that then so be it.

This is exactly what Chip is thinking.  He knows the deal in big time college football.  He’s very thankful to Gus for the opportunity he’s been given.  He doesn’t know what will happen at the end of the season but if he does have to move on he thinks he will still land on his feet in college ball.  

You have to remember 5 years ago Chip was coaching high school football now he’s making $1m plus a year.  I’d say he’s very thankful for what Gus has done for him.  

Believe that or don’t but I know exactly what I know about Chip and if you or anyone else I don’t really care... 

so no need to reply stalker