2020 OL Class Reset

[PUB78 1,358]

28 minutes ago, ellitor said:

Likely whoever the new guy coming is. No point worrying about it though unless Joey actually transfers.

Agree, I think all of us on this Forum hopes he doesn't , at least not until after the 2020 season,. However, in my profession, I have to always be looking ahead and I try and do this with the Auburn athletic teams as well. especially football and basketball.

[ellitor 33,094]

20 minutes ago, PUB78 said:

Agree, I think all of us on this Forum hopes he doesn't , at least not until after the 2020 season,. However, in my profession, I have to always be looking ahead and I try and do this with the Auburn athletic teams as well. especially football and basketball.

The staff is monitoring Joey's decision as well & Joey is communicating with them openly about it.

[McLoofus 35,182]

1 hour ago, ellitor said:

The staff is monitoring Joey's decision as well & Joey is communicating with them openly about it.

Gus seems to handle this aspect of the business pretty well. 

[Zeek 16,650]

14 hours ago, bigbird said:

We have the nicest and sweetest OL in the nation.  The ones coming in and backing them up have a little more nastiness in them. 

Our current OL can't drive block anyone off the LoS. They make contact and their feet just stop.  

This. I was gonna say that some might be starting because of seniority instead of ability/performance.

[jared52 4,354]

8 hours ago, ellitor said:

Likely will have more raw talent at 3, if not 4, of the OL positions. Kilian Zierer (who is having a big season in juco), Bro-Hamm, & Trox all have more talent than Driscoll. If Bro-Hamm doesn't win an OT spot he has more talent than maybe 1 or both OGs so he could slide back down. Jernigan, Osborne, Stutts, & Keiondre Jones have more talent than one & some both OGs. Tate Johnson, Irvin & Brahms have more talent than Kim. The only position we will not have more raw talent is Buskey or Zierer replacing Tega at LT. Just a matter of kids being coached up, developing, & gelling together.

Cool. If these guys are more talented than the players now why aren’t the ones already at AU playing now? Experience?

[doc4aday 1,887]

18 hours ago, gr82be said:

It's not OL news but just to clarify, the Nationals already eliminated the Dodgers. 

Thanks...I did not realize they had knocked out the Dodgers.  I think the Braves could have beaten the nats if they could have gotten by the cards. They blew that series big time (braves that is)

[mcgufcm 4,100]

@jared52, in my opinion, there are one or two guys starting right now because of cohesiveness. The OL is the one position group where the most talented guy does not and should not always start. You have to find the best group. That's not always the five best individual talents. I absolutely think this is the best group of five we have. They function well together even if they don't have the ability to dominate individual matchups. You could say that's favoring seniority over talent, but I'd say it's just favoring group performance over individual performance.

I actually agree with some of what folks have said here. Man by man, position by position, we will have a more talented OL next year. Tega and Harrell are both NFL-caliber players, but I don't think that's true of the right side of the OL. Again, you don't need NFL players across the board. The 2010 OL was pretty dang dominant, and they only had one guy make the NFL (a 7th round draft pick). Next year though, I think you'll see Brahms, Trox, Hamm, and either Zierer or Buskey starting. That group is an overall talent upgrade. I don't know if they'll be worth a crap as a group, but they are more talented individually.

[ellitor 33,094]

1 hour ago, jared52 said:

Cool. If these guys are more talented than the players now why aren’t the ones already at AU playing now? Experience?

Development. Most are young. Then you have a guy like Bro Hamm who had cancer which may delay his ready point. OL is a position where it doesn't matter much if you have more raw talent than the guy in front of you if you haven't developed the technique necessary to for the college game.

[AuburnNTexas 7,149]

 -Line is probably the toughest position to play with possible exception of QB. You have to be big enough and strong enough to handle some huge space eaters while you have you be quick enough to stop speed rushers,, then you have to be able to pull, handle different blocking assignments, adjust on the fly when teams do blitz's especially delayed Blitz's. Add to that the RPO how long do you hold block before moving downfield to next level. I haven't even gotten into different techniques for run blocking, setting up a screen, regular pass blocking. Finally you have to work as a unit where there are times you hit one man just enough to allow another O-linemen to pick him up and then still getting to the zone you are blocking in or the man you are to block. 

One WR runs the wrong route QB can still go to another WR four O-line do their job  perfectly and one misses the O-Line failed. In addition sometimes they are told not to block a player as QB is reading that player. If QB makes a bad read  we get a TOFL and O-Line is blamed.

 

 

 

[Gowebb11 9,326]

2 hours ago, ellitor said:

Development. Most are young. Then you have a guy like Bro Hamm who had cancer which may delay his ready point. OL is a position where it doesn't matter much if you have more raw talent than the guy in front of you if you haven't developed the technique necessary to for the college game.

The flip side of that is you can know and practice great technique and lack the talent to execute. I came into this year accepting the physical limitations of this o line, but there have been too many busts and missed assignments for five 5th year seniors. Technique, talent, or both, I hope next year is much better. 

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,673]

4 hours ago, mcgufcm said:

@jared52, in my opinion, there are one or two guys starting right now because of cohesiveness. The OL is the one position group where the most talented guy does not and should not always start. You have to find the best group. That's not always the five best individual talents. I absolutely think this is the best group of five we have. They function well together even if they don't have the ability to dominate individual matchups. You could say that's favoring seniority over talent, but I'd say it's just favoring group performance over individual performance.

I actually agree with some of what folks have said here. Man by man, position by position, we will have a more talented OL next year. Tega and Harrell are both NFL-caliber players, but I don't think that's true of the right side of the OL. Again, you don't need NFL players across the board. The 2010 OL was pretty dang dominant, and they only had one guy make the NFL (a 7th round draft pick). Next year though, I think you'll see Brahms, Trox, Hamm, and either Zierer or Buskey starting. That group is an overall talent upgrade. I don't know if they'll be worth a crap as a group, but they are more talented individually.

Your logic holds up, but I feel like maintaining the status quo...when the status quo could be improved...is kinda wack. Especially when guys like Sharp could come in and look great their first game. If they had every intention of shaking 1 or 2 off those positions up over the offseason (or even last year), they'd already be gelled by this point

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,673]

On 10/14/2019 at 1:57 PM, doc4aday said:

No doubt about it, our OL will likely be of lesser quality than 2019 with the loss of all of the senior linemen for 2020 season. We will likely take some hits with overall blocking than what we have this season. It takes most OL a year or 2 to become seasoned enough to be good SEC linemen.  I do not see 2020 being a better season with win totals than what we will have this year.

I do not want to sound overly negative, but there is always a chance we could lose to Arkansas and Ole Miss. Nothing is a sure thing. I think we will win those games and maybe more, but you never know in the SEC except maybe Vandy this season. If the Good Lord forbid and we lose 6 games and wind up 6-6, then Gus would in all likelihood be replaced.

If this happens, I love Matt Ruhle at Baylor and PJ Fleck at Minnesota. Those are young coaches who are proving themselves as winners at their current schools. I know this is very premature, but it is something we should have in the back of our minds.  I do think we have a solid chance of going anywhere from 8-4 to 9-3 or maybe a win more. Go 9-3 and win a bowl game would be a nice season no doubt. Even going 9-4 with a bowl win would be nice and enough to keep Gus around another year. If we go 6-6 things could get ugly coaching wise.

im one of the most "negative" people on the forum, but there isnt a chance in hell we lose to either of those two. The Arkansas game because we're coming off a bye (might've been kinda possible if it came right after the Florida game) and the Ole Miss game just because they're running a scheme that goes straight into the Auburn's defense. I know someone will bring up the UT game last year, but they had pretty solid receivers (and we had a bad secondary) and a coach who had put his foot in Gus's...before. 

[AURex 2,000]

Ya know, I'm feeling like Mikey did for years with his discouragement with LB recruiting. Well, finally, Auburn found some coaches and the LB recruiting has improved a lot and OMG! What a D we got now!.

Yes, I get that for the OL the whole is more than just the sum of the parts. They have to be able to function as a unit, and sometimes the highest rated or most accomplished individual player may not function as well in the unit as someone who may be less skilled but gels better with the others.

However, the fact is, the current unit is ... um ..... not optimal. If this is the optimal combination of OL players, .... well, it's not impressing anyone. And subbing others currently on the roster, even those who might be more skilled, apparently is not a solution as far as our OLC is concerned.

I'll just suggest that dragging in a bunch of JUCOs is well and good, but it's just a patch on the overall problem. Auburn's OL recruiting has been ... um .... less than sparkling. I look at some teams, not just in the SEC, not even higher ranked than Auburn  (I wouldn't dare mention them) loading up on 4* and 5* OL out of high school. Yes, you gotta put together a group that functions good as a unit. That's easier to do if you got a herd of 4* and 5* hulks to start with -- and a OL coach who can coach them up.

Yes, I hope to heaven that we can find a few gems in this big crop of incoming guys. I hope to heaven Auburn can put together some semblance of an OL next season. I'm pulling for every single one of these guys to succeed. I hope they all turn into monsters of the trenches, striking fear into our rivals and laying waste to the SEC!

But while they are terrorizing our rivals, I'd really like to see Auburn find a way to begin recruiting adequate numbers of very talented guys out of high school and coaching them up. And I hope CGM has the guts and vision to make the change at OLC that will put Auburn on track in that direction, because IMO Grimes ... well, let's just say he ain't the OL whisperer.

 

[ellitor 33,094]

3 minutes ago, AURex said:

And subbing others currently on the roster, even those who might be more skilled, apparently is not a solution as far as our OLC Gus is concerned.

FIFY. The OLC really doesn't have a say in that unfortunately.

7 minutes ago, AURex said:

I'd really like to see Auburn find a way to begin recruiting adequate numbers of very talented guys out of high school

Gus has to start to be willing to take some plan Bs for that to happen & avoid classes of 1 to 2 OL which is unacceptable.

8 minutes ago, AURex said:

I hope CGM has the guts and vision to make the change at OLC

Gus needs the vision to listen to the OLCs much more than he has most of his HC career.

[ellitor 33,094]

Keith thinks Trox could play Guard if he comes back healthy & doesn't win the RT job so there's another potential option.

[Beaker 2,457]

15 hours ago, ellitor said:

FIFY. The OLC really doesn't have a say in that unfortunately.

Gus has to start to be willing to take some plan Bs for that to happen & avoid classes of 1 to 2 OL which is unacceptable.

Gus needs the vision to listen to the OLCs much more than he has most of his HC career.

This is what burns me up.  Same arrogance that cost us the 2017 SECG.  A limping KJ is better than our second best option -    Not even UT would do that.  

We will find out on Saturday if we have any real depth at RB.  

[cctiger 571]

16 hours ago, AURex said:

IMO Grimes ... well, let's just say he ain't the OL whisperer.

 

16 hours ago, ellitor said:

Gus has to start to be willing to take some plan Bs for that to happen & avoid classes of 1 to 2 OL which is unacceptable.

BOOM! as the Guster says at times. Nail on the head! 

[AURex 2,000]

I think Gus is willing to take plan Bs and Cs and Ds, but none of those plan Bs and Cs and Ds are willing to commit to Gus. And no matter what e says, Grimes ain't making it happen.

[ellitor 33,094]

12 hours ago, AURex said:

I think Gus is willing to take plan Bs and Cs and Ds, but none of those plan Bs and Cs and Ds are willing to commit to Gus

They may not have been willing to commit to him but we'll never know. I promise you that in most classes Gus was not willing to go after & take most guys who were not his plan As. It's been well documented in the Recruiting Forum over different classes guys that were interested in AU that Gus ultimately wasn't willing to take. This might be the 1st class he was willing to take some

12 hours ago, AURex said:

And no matter what e says, Grimes ain't making it happen.

Never said nor implied he was. I have documented countless times how Grimes is not a closer & was why we missed on guys like Putnam, Clay Webb, & Wanya Morris when our area recruiters for those recruits handed the recruits off to Grimes with AU in the lead for them. That's why Dilly has taken over most of OL recruiting. There can be multiple issues & problems. This conversation was focused on Gus's role on why we are where we are with OL talent so that was where my post was going. Gus has put the lion's share of the responsibility on himself. Grimes not closing is a problem but at the moment it's only a back end of the situation problem.

[McLoofus 35,182]

12 minutes ago, ellitor said:

They may not have been willing to commit to him but we'll never know. I promise you that in most classes Gus was not willing to go after & take most guys who were not his plan As. It's been well documented in the Recruiting Forum over different classes guys that were interested in AU that Gus ultimately wasn't willing to take. This might be the 1st class he was willing to take some

Never said nor implied he was. I have documented countless times how Grimes is not a closer & was why we missed on guys like Putnam, Clay Webb, & Wanya Morris when our area recruiters for those recruits handed the recruits off to Grimes with AU in the lead for them. That's why Dilly has taken over most of OL recruiting. There can be multiple issues & problems. This conversation was focused on Gus's role on why we are where we are with OL talent so that was where my post was going. Gus has put the lion's share of the responsibility on himself. Grimes not closing is a problem but at the moment it's only a back end of the situation problem.

Yeah. This is all completely consistent with everything you and others have said all along. And it makes sense when you look at the guys who have signed with us and those who haven't. 

[AURex 2,000]

On 10/15/2019 at 9:11 PM, ellitor said:

Gus needs the vision to listen to the OLCs much more than he has

Ah! So now CGM needs to listen to Grimes? Okay. I'm not even going to comment on that.

My point was and remains that (1) OL recruiting of 4* and 5* HS players has stunk and continues to stink, and (2) there is no significant up-development of existing OL kids. You can twist that around any way you like, you can argue about who is to blame and what needs to be done, but I'm sticking with my observation until there is some real evidence that the situation has changed.

 

[Gowebb11 9,326]

I’ve been pretty critical of our O-line recruiting of late, but I can’t say I’m really blown away by anyone’s o-line this year. O linemen used to need to be big, strong, and mean. Now they have to be athletes. They used to get in a three point stance, fire off, and maul the man across from them. The last few years, we’ve almost completely stood them up, put the Qb in shotgun formation, and have the o linemen hold their body in an awkward lean waiting for 20 seconds of audibles shifts and motions. Then they run a fire drill trying to zone block very agile and athletic d linemen with their hands. Few offensive lines are really great anymore in my opinion. 

[Sizzle 3,914]

1 hour ago, Gowebb11 said:

I’ve been pretty critical of our O-line recruiting of late, but I can’t say I’m really blown away by anyone’s o-line this year. O linemen used to need to be big, strong, and mean. Now they have to be athletes. They used to get in a three point stance, fire off, and maul the man across from them. The last few years, we’ve almost completely stood them up, put the Qb in shotgun formation, and have the o linemen hold their body in an awkward lean waiting for 20 seconds of audibles shifts and motions. Then they run a fire drill trying to zone block very agile and athletic d linemen with their hands. Few offensive lines are really great anymore in my opinion. 

It’s a new day. Teams are more pass happy now. Nobody’s running I formation and just running the ball 35+ times anymore. It’s all about spreading out and using speed. That’s why big bruising LB’s are basically obsolete now. Too slow

[Gowebb11 9,326]

9 hours ago, Sizzle said:

It’s a new day. Teams are more pass happy now. Nobody’s running I formation and just running the ball 35+ times anymore. It’s all about spreading out and using speed. That’s why big bruising LB’s are basically obsolete now. Too slow

I agree that it’s a new day. I’m just saying that o line recruiting may not have caught up. Your LB example is a great one. LBers now have to cover receivers now, so they’re more athletic, leaner, and faster than they used to be. O linemen have to be more athletic now, but most of them are still big and thick. 

[AuburnNTexas 7,149]

On 10/21/2019 at 6:31 AM, Gowebb11 said:

I agree that it’s a new day. I’m just saying that o line recruiting may not have caught up. Your LB example is a great one. LBers now have to cover receivers now, so they’re more athletic, leaner, and faster than they used to be. O linemen have to be more athletic now, but most of them are still big and thick. 

If you are not big and thick how do you stop a Derrick Brown from coming straight up the middle and blowing up the play.  That is what makes it so difficult to find great O-linemen you have to be able to stop bull rushes and speed rushes and you also need to be a Road Grader. Then add to that smart enough to pick up multiple different blitz's and multiple different blocking schemes depending on play called and defensive alignment. 

That is why play calling is so important you need to force the defense to make decisions. If the play calling is not keeping the defense off balance the O-Linemen's job is even more difficult.  The days of the Old Green Bay Packers under Lombardi pretty much telling you what they were going to run and daring you to stop it is long since gone.