Maher: We need one national anthem, maybe a new one.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

7 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Nice obfuscation and avoidance.  Can't compose a single sentence?

And I am not "bitter".  And bitter about what exactly?

I am realistic.  70 years of life experience will do that to you.

That was very convincing.

I now believe that:

1.  You aren't bitter

2.  You are genuine in your question

[homersapien 11,393]

21 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

No one said it was.  Good lord you guys must own a scarecrow factory with all the straw men you constantly erect.

He's the one who (again) resorted to the fallacy of appealing to ridicule and in doing so he revealed that he is ignorant of the fact that Democrats have historically been the party of racism in America.  And I would say it's more like 50 years ago that they stopped overtly hating black people, at least as a unified party.  The Dixiecrat divide didn't get settled until the late 60s, early 70s.  And even after that you had outliers in the Democratic Party who were overtly racist probably up until the early 80s or longer.

 

And all those racists switched their party affiliation to Republican, where they remain today.

Similarly, at the same time and for the same reasons, Black people aligned their political affiliation to Democrats.

You guys act like you just discovered the racist history of the Democratic Party. 

For me, that's old news. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

31 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Why would you pretend that isn't true, then?

That's one of the most blatant example of "begging the question" I have ever seen.

Please quote me where I "pretended" the racist history of the Democratic Party was not true.

You continue to lie about me. It's starting to make you look foolish. Please stop.

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,820]

9 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Please quote me where I pretended the racist history of the Democratic Party was not true.

And the south was once referred to as the “solid south”. Solidly democrat….all changed in 1964 with the Civil Rights act. Sorta like changing hats. Feel sure most people folks are well aware of it.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

28 minutes ago, homersapien said:

No s***. 

I lived in Birmingham most of my life.  I was there for the firehoses, dogs, Bull Conner and the church bombing, followed by George Wallace (a Democrat).

If you really think I don't understand the history of the Democratic party you are nuts.

I understand recent political history and I am willing to discuss it in a rational way.  But trying to equate today's Democratic Party to the one in the 60's is not rational.  It reveals an ignorance of how political parties can change.  It's not relevant today.

Neither is trying to equate today's Republican Party to how the Democrats were back in the 60's and earlier. Which is what you and others try to do, or at a minimum you try to constantly insinuate it. If you do really think that, then feel free to provide links to back it up. 

[homersapien 11,393]

10 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

And the south was once referred to as the “solid south”. Solidly democrat….all changed in 1964 with the Civil Rights act. Sorta like changing hats. Feel sure most people folks are well aware of it.

Exactly. 

Apparently we have some "youngsters" having a revelation about it. 

[homersapien 11,393]

15 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Neither is trying to equate today's Republican Party to how the Democrats were back in the 60's and earlier. Which is what you and others try to do, or at a minimum you try to constantly insinuate it. If you do really think that, then feel free to provide links to back it up. 

First, I don't accept the implication that I am equating the Republican Party with the Democratic party of the 60's which is patently absurd.  History always changes.

But the difference between the current parties concerning race is obvious.  Even the non-MAGA Republicans recognize that.  (The MAGAs are in a class of their own. In fact they are the primary contributors to the GOP "race problem".) 

If you really need links to back this up here are a few:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-republican-party-racial-hypocrisy-and-the-1619-project

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

https://apnews.com/article/politics-death-of-daunte-wright-race-and-ethnicity-government-and-politics-george-floyd-98504669d2baac0f061ca920a52d6ab2

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/racial-and-ethnic-composition/by/state/among/party-affiliation/republican-lean-rep/

https://theconversation.com/texas-voting-law-builds-on-long-legacy-of-racism-from-gop-leaders-166807

https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2Fvoices%2F2021%2F07%2F20%2Fracism-america-what-my-fellow-republicans-should-understand%2F7989408002%2F

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/racism-republican-party-stuart-stevens/

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

29 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, I don't accept the implication that I am equating the Republican Party with the Democratic party of the 60's which is patently absurd.  History always changes.

 

You need to see who stole your login information then.  Because someone posted this under your account:

"And all those racists switched their party affiliation to Republican, where they remain today."

I genuinely don't understand your posts.  If your earlier posts do not indicate ridicule for the idea that the Democratic Party has historically been the party of racism, I have no idea what your point was.

If the above quoted statement isn't designed to communicate exactly what you just denied, I have no idea what it means.

Maybe you should stop trying to use so much sarcasm.  No offense, but I don't think you're very good at it.  I also—already in my limited time here—have seen you discuss in a manner that is clearly not in good faith.

I think as far as the internet goes I am as reasonable a person as you will find to discuss disagreements with—that's what i strive for, anyway.  I'd much rather discuss the issues than I would personally insult people.  I don't think it's a game to win or lose, I think it's just a trading of ideas.

If you'd like to converse with me on that basis and do our best to avoid the temptation to de-humanize each other, I'm in. Nobody is perfect—including me—and online conversations are tempting sometimes to fall into that trap with, and sometimes I do myself, but if you'd like to try, I'm in.

If you'd like to score cheap points and call people who disagree with you idiots, I personally haven't seen much of anything constructive come of that and I wouldn't be interested in that.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

47 minutes ago, homersapien said:

First, I don't accept the implication that I am equating the Republican Party with the Democratic party of the 60's which is patently absurd.  History always changes.

But the difference between the current parties concerning race is obvious.  Even the non-MAGA Republicans recognize that.  (The MAGAs are in a class of their own. In fact they are the primary contributors to the GOP "race problem".) 

If you really need links to back this up here are a few:

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-republican-party-racial-hypocrisy-and-the-1619-project

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/10/26/what-the-2020-electorate-looks-like-by-party-race-and-ethnicity-age-education-and-religion/

https://apnews.com/article/politics-death-of-daunte-wright-race-and-ethnicity-government-and-politics-george-floyd-98504669d2baac0f061ca920a52d6ab2

https://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/compare/racial-and-ethnic-composition/by/state/among/party-affiliation/republican-lean-rep/

https://theconversation.com/texas-voting-law-builds-on-long-legacy-of-racism-from-gop-leaders-166807

https://www.usatoday.com/restricted/?return=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.usatoday.com%2Fstory%2Fopinion%2Fvoices%2F2021%2F07%2F20%2Fracism-america-what-my-fellow-republicans-should-understand%2F7989408002%2F

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/08/racism-republican-party-stuart-stevens/

You consistently have tried to insinuate that the present day republican party is the party of racism just like the democrats of old. Why change your mind now? Also, both parties are pretty even in the amount of racism that still resides in them. It is not 1960's level for each, but still there. Old habits die hard for those old lifelong politicians. 

Not sure why you provided those links since I ask for links that showed the R's of today as bad as D's of the 1960's and earlier. Not only that, not sure why you think that just because republican party tends to have more white people makes them more racist. Also, you are grasping at straws if you think voter ID laws are racist. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

25 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

 Also, both parties are pretty even in the amount of racism that still resides in them. 

Disagree. 

Although the national Republican party doesn't outwardly embrace or publicly support these groups (for obvious reasons), America's neo-nazi and white supremacist groups generally support the Republican Party if they support anyone.

Trump was particularly popular and well liked by them. 

 

------------------------------------------

Quote

Not only that, not sure why you think that just because republican party tends to have more white people makes them more racist. 

"tends to have" more white people is an interesting way of saying "always has a vast majority"  

194 out of 213 Republican congressmen are white 

47 out of 50 Republican senators are white  

AND this is one of the Diverse the Republican party has ever been. It's normally 95%+ white. 

Edited October 5, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[I_M4_AU 7,874]

2 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Yes, I know it was written long before it became the official anthem of the country.

I honor the fact that this country experienced a major failure to live up to her ideals for the vast majority of our existence. I was in church recently and my pastor was preaching on freedom and how the United States was founded on freedom and the whole time in my head I was thinking, "Only if you were white.  And male."  This is a fact, and it's something we have to deal with.

I don't blame certain people who don't feel a part of the United States when the SSB plays.  Why would they?  They don't associate it with what my pastor and I associate it with, and they would have no reason to.  Think about this:  my grandparents were born in around 1900.  Think about what life was like for black people in 1900.  And women, for that matter.  And that's only two generations away from where I sit.  Black people my age are only two generations away from what was happening in the early 1900s.  My parents were born around 1940.  That's just one generation away from where I sit.

If I were black I don't think I would have any resonance with that song whatsoever.

So I can understand wanting a new anthem.  Agreeing upon what it should be is another problem, but I think we can solve the first problem by people like myself not opposing the efforts to facilitate something like that.  Black America, I can never understand what life has been like for you, but I understand you want to be acknowledged and shown the same consideration our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were shown.  I'm o.k. with that, and frankly it's strange to me that anyone else wouldn't be.  (Not that you wouldn't be...that's a general statement not aimed at you.) 

Nice rant, but my point was the National Anthem was a unifying song for many years.  Also, with the identity politics of today (the self is more important than the whole) we are too fractured to select a new one.  Patriotism only lasted a few years after 9/11, heck even Covid couldn’t do it.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

2 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Disagree. 

Although the national Republican party doesn't outwardly embrace or publicly support these groups (for obvious reasons), America's neo-nazi and white supremacist groups generally support the Republican Party if they support anyone.

Trump was particularly popular and well liked by them. 

 

 

"tends to have" more white people is an interesting way of saying "always has a vast majority"  

194 out of 213 Republican congressmen are white 

47 out of 50 Republican senators are white  

AND this is one of the Diverse the Republican party has ever been. It's normally 95%+ white. 

Having a fringe group of nut jobs that decided they wanted to support the republican party because they were upset that democrats "betrayed" them with the Civil Rights Act's does not mean the republican party as a whole is the party of racism. Just as not all that voted for Trump are racist as well. 

Again, the fact that republicans have always had a white majority still doesn't equate to being more racist. 

Just do a little research on systemic racism and you will find that many people that identify as democrats are just as responsible for it and keeping it alive. 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

All I can tell you is that from personal experience in my life growing up , and what I see on the internet among many various groups and planforms platforms: 

The people who make blatantly racist statements and express racist viewpoints have almost always...by a very wide margin...identified as Conservative and/or Republican. If you want to say that you haven't seen or experienced similar then that's fair enough, we'll just have to agree that we see things differently. 

 

13 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Just do a little research on systemic racism and you will find that many people that identify as democrats are just as responsible for it and keeping it alive. 

This I will agree on whole heartedly. 

While Democrats are much less likely than Republicans (IMO) to vocalize or express racism outwardly, Democrats are absolutely guilty of i8mplimenting and maintaining systemic and institutional racism, and has done a lot of damage to minorities because of it. 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The people who make blatantly racist statements and express racist viewpoints have almost always...by a very wide margin...identified as Conservative and/or Republican. If you want to say that you haven't seen or experienced similar then that's fair enough, we'll just have to agree that we see things differently. 

 

1 hour ago, CoffeeTiger said:

While Democrats are much less likely than Republicans (IMO) to vocalize or express racism outwardly, Democrats are absolutely guilty of i8mplimenting and maintaining systemic and institutional racism, and has done a lot of damage to minorities because of it. 

I think these two comments hit the nail on the head. This has been my experience as well, but just because one doesn't outwardly show it where it is glaringly obvious doesn't mean it goes un-noticed. 

Keep in mind that racism comes from all races and there are plenty of non white racist people in both parties, but usually no one wants to talk about that. 

I firmly believe that both parties pander to their constituency to get votes, whether that be to pick up the redneck vote or to get the minority vote on the other side. A couple of weeks ago someone on here mentioned VP KH (then the nominee) having a site set up to bail out rioters. I looked into it and it turns out it was actually a link to an entity that essentially is there as an arm to a PAC that is closely linked to the DNC and is a major funding source for the DNC. There was no way to ensure the money went to where they said it would. 

[cole256 17,084]

All of the Democrat/Republican talk is straw man to me. If you want to talk about the racism stuff still being around is EVERYBODYlook in the mirror. Yeah I know everybody will say they aren't racist but yet somehow racism is still out there somehow.....But how do you react to it? Do you help a racist person by complaining about racism being talked about? Do you tolerate it? Are you appalled by it and admonish it? Do you just be quiet about it and say you're not racist the rest isn't any of your business?

Do you think your actions make a person who is racist more comfortable or uncomfortable? That's what you should think about.

[homersapien 11,393]

4 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

You need to see who stole your login information then.  Because someone posted this under your account:

"And all those racists switched their party affiliation to Republican, where they remain today."

I genuinely don't understand your posts.  If your earlier posts do not indicate ridicule for the idea that the Democratic Party has historically been the party of racism, I have no idea what your point was.

If the above quoted statement isn't designed to communicate exactly what you just denied, I have no idea what it means.

 

Man that's a baffling miss understanding of my post.  The subject sentence  confirms the fact that, at the time, Democrats were the party of racism but after the civil rights act, those racists migrated to the Republican party. (Simplistic but generally true.  Nixon played a big part also with his "southern strategy".)

To repeat:  Democrats were racist.  A Democratic POTUS supported civil rights.  Subsequently, the Democratic racists switched parties to the Republicans.

What's your interpretation of what I was saying?? 

And in the future I will avoid the sarcasm or at least clearly label it.  I honestly thought it was obvious.  My apologies if it wasn't, but I never dreamed people would interpret in such a unexpected way.

And thanks for actually including a quote of one of my posts.  I am tired of defending arguments I never made.  That includes quoting the sarcasm. I will gladly explain it if there is any doubt.

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

Wait a second.  I think I figured it out.

Racist people switched from Democrats to Republicans back in the 06's/70's.

That does not mean present day Republican Party is exactly and literally like the Democratic party of the 60/70's.

(I never imagined anyone thinking that.) 

Instead of sicc'ing police dogs on BLM marchers and bombing black churches, the modern Republican party tries to make it harder for blacks to vote through various means. Or they go crazy over attempts to remove Civil War statues or teaching of our history of slavery and racism.

And my comment about "remaining there today" simply meant that the racists of today remain in the Republican Party (at least if the other option is identifying with the Democratic Party.)  I think Trump and Charlottesville demonstrated that very aptly.

I didn't mean the actual people - members of the KKK or whomever - that generated the violence are still existent as modern day Republicans. (Hell most of them are likely dead by now. But the ones who aren't are undoubtedly MAGAs.)

Obviously things have changed in 50 years.  It's a new era.  But how the two parties line up in terms of race hasn't changed.

Does that help?

 

 

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

You consistently have tried to insinuate that the present day republican party is the party of racism just like the democrats of old. Why change your mind now? Also, both parties are pretty even in the amount of racism that still resides in them. It is not 1960's level for each, but still there. Old habits die hard for those old lifelong politicians. 

Not sure why you provided those links since I ask for links that showed the R's of today as bad as D's of the 1960's and earlier. Not only that, not sure why you think that just because republican party tends to have more white people makes them more racist. Also, you are grasping at straws if you think voter ID laws are racist. 

I have not insinuated anything. I am stating what most informed people already know.  Between the two parties, one has a much larger percent of minority support.  That's fact.

And apparently you didn't read many of those links.  There are reasons why such a large percentage of blacks vote Democrat.  Can you even guess what they are?

(Hint: it has little or nothing to do with how the parties switched back in the 60/70's.) It's who is trying hardest to appeal to whites (vs. blacks.)

As an example, look at Romney.  He understands the "race" problem with the Republican party, but he is scorned for it.

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

5 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

If you'd like to score cheap points and call people who disagree with you idiots, I personally haven't seen much of anything constructive come of that and I wouldn't be interested in that.

Same goes for you. 

Another good habit is asking for clarification before jumping to a conclusion.

And be sure to include the part - as a quote - you are referring to.  In fact I am going to start insisting on the latter. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

6 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Neither is trying to equate today's Republican Party to how the Democrats were back in the 60's and earlier. Which is what you and others try to do, or at a minimum you try to constantly insinuate it. If you do really think that, then feel free to provide links to back it up. 

See my responses to Pony. You are way off base.

And those links don't support your premise because it's wrong. (I can say that because we are talking about something I wrote.)

They support my premise which hopefully you'll come to understand by reading my explanation of my post and what meant by it. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Having a fringe group of nut jobs that decided they wanted to support the republican party because they were upset that democrats "betrayed" them with the Civil Rights Act's does not mean the republican party as a whole is the party of racism. Just as not all that voted for Trump are racist as well. 

 

Depends on how you define racism.

But then, no one has argued that.  There are lots of Republicans who detest Trump and have advised the GOP to be more inclusive.  They haven't gotten much traction within the party.

To summarize, the Republican party represents the party of white people, and like it or not, white supremacists. (You can thank Trump for the latter.)

 

4 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Again, the fact that republicans have always had a white majority still doesn't equate to being more racist.

First, it's a super majority of whites, not just a majority.

No, it doesn't prove anything, it's nothing more than possible indicator of bias or prejudice in policy. 

Much better indicators IMO are things like voting restrictions that have the practical effect of suppressing minority votes and the outrage and reaction -manifested in the straw man of CRT - to an honest teaching of slavery and racism.

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[AU9377 4,979]

On 9/29/2021 at 4:59 PM, PUB78 said:

And Trump was elected in 2016 because he wasn’t HRC or Obama, the great divider.

Had Obama been able to run, he would have won easily.

[PUB78 1,361]

29 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

Had Obama been able to run, he would have won easily.

Not so sure about that.

[DKW 86 7,431]

So, in summation All Republicans are inherently evil because...

THEY ARE ALL FORMER RACIST DEMOCRATS, except that the Republicans that stood with the Blacks and Worked very hard to free the Blacks are all still in the Republican Party. So...well....we have to VIRULENTLY HATE ALL REPUBLICANS because.....they dont support the DNC. END OF THOUGHT PTOCESS. It really has nothing to do with racism at all. 

1) Not all Racists left the DNC, See Yellow Dog Democrats. There are still VERY VOCAL racist Democrats in the ADP & DNC. 

2) Why dont Blacks get Meaningful Leadership Positions in the DNC? Plantation Politics is why.

3) Of the 5-6 Card Carrying KKK Members i know, from my childhood, they are all Mind-Numbed Dullards Sworn to support the Democrat Party.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

9 minutes ago, DKW 86 said:

So, in summation All Republicans are inherently evil because...

THEY ARE ALL FORMER RACIST DEMOCRATS

Cue Homer to deny what he has clearly said in 3...2...1