Maher: We need one national anthem, maybe a new one.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

The Democrats being the party of overt racist 70+ years ago isn't a compelling reason for why Black people shouldn't vote for them now. 

And Yes, even after the parties switched places in the 1940-50's, there were still a lot of Democrats and liberals who were racists....because racism was engrained in the nation's culture for both political parties for most of American history. 

 

Saying " Well, Democrats used to be racists too" Isn't the slam dunk, clap-back that a lot of Republicans think it is. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by CoffeeTiger

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

21 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The Democrats being the party of overt racist 70+ years ago isn't a compelling reason for why Black people shouldn't vote for them now. 

And Yes, even after the parties switched places in the 1940-50's, there were still a lot of Democrats and liberals who were racists....because racism was engrained in the nation's culture for both political parties for most of American history. 

 

Saying " Well, Democrats used to be racists too" Isn't the slam dunk, clap-back that a lot of Republicans think it is. 

No one said it was.  Good lord you guys must own a scarecrow factory with all the straw men you constantly erect.

He's the one who (again) resorted to the fallacy of appealing to ridicule and in doing so he revealed that he is ignorant of the fact that Democrats have historically been the party of racism in America.  And I would say it's more like 50 years ago that they stopped overtly hating black people, at least as a unified party.  The Dixiecrat divide didn't get settled until the late 60s, early 70s.  And even after that you had outliers in the Democratic Party who were overtly racist probably up until the early 80s or longer.

And no one whom you would claim is racist in the Republican Party today would be as racist as those outlier Democrats were then.

But you don't have to say it, I already know.  That's Different©.

Anyway, that was an aside, sure, but it's an aside that he brought up, not me.  

Edited October 4, 2021 by Shoney'sPonyBoy

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

Regarding the whole whataboutism thing in general, you lefties IMO constantly mischaracterize the issue.

I would say it's correct that what Clinton or Obama or someone else did doesn't justify something that Trump did.  The point isn't what it reveals about the current person being criticized.

The point is what it reveals about the person doing the criticizing.  The person who criticizes one politician because they have an R after their name and excuses another who has a D after their name for doing the same thing.

That in no way says that the R wasn't wrong.  It just says that the person criticizing is a bald hypocrite who really doesn't care about the action in question or the truth, only that his or her team prevails.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

1 minute ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Regarding the whole whataboutism thing in general, you lefties IMO constantly mischaracterize the issue.

I would say it's correct that what Clinton or Obama or someone else did doesn't justify something that Trump did.  The point isn't what it reveals about the current person being criticized.

The point is what it reveals about the person doing the criticizing.  The person who criticizes one politician because they have an R after their name and excuses another who has a D after their name for doing the same thing.

That in no way says that the R wasn't wrong.  It just says that the person criticizing is a bald hypocrite who really doesn't care about the action in question or the truth, only that his or her team prevails.

Get use to it. The ones that are trying to justify the racist democrats in this thread are some of the biggest hypocrites we have on this site. Get used to the “that’s different” from them, it’s their go to card and they will always pull it out when needed. 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

2 minutes ago, wdefromtx said:

Get use to it. The ones that are trying to justify the racist democrats in this thread are some of the biggest hypocrites we have on this site. Get used to the “that’s different” from them, it’s their go to card and they will always pull it out when needed. 

It's not just them.  I have noticed that as a staple of the left since at least Obama's first term.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

To the point that I believe the vast majority of them don't even realize they are doing it.  It's become such an ingrained part of the left culture.

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

15 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

No one said it was.  Good lord you guys must own a scarecrow factory with all the straw men you constantly erect.

He's the one who (again) resorted to the fallacy of appealing to ridicule and in doing so he revealed that he is ignorant of the fact that Democrats have historically been the party of racism in America.  And I would say it's more like 50 years ago that they stopped overtly hating black people, at least as a unified party.  The Dixiecrat divide didn't get settled until the late 60s, early 70s.  And even after that you had outliers in the Democratic Party who were overtly racist probably up until the early 80s or longer.

And no one whom you would claim is racist in the Republican Party today would be as racist as those outlier Democrats were then.

But you don't have to say it, I already know.  That's Different©.

Anyway, that was an aside, sure, but it's an aside that he brought up, not me.  

I was talking more in generalities, which is why i didn't quote anyone in my reply. 

 The "Democrats started the KKK" is an an argument that has been very popular with the right for a long time now. Hear it constantly from Conservatives, especially last year when the George Floyd stuff was going on. I think it was almost a requirement for being considered a Republican that you posted a meme about the "Democratic KKK" on a social media outlet of your choice.  It's like to Republicans the "party switch" never happened and those Democratic Racists didn't all eventually switch over to the Republican side to feel more comfortable.  

 

And you're right, there isn't any national Republican politician today that would be as racist as the ones decades ago because thankfully we as a society wouldn't tolerate it, and they'd be expelled from the party and the national scene because of the "Woke Cancel culture" outrage that would ensue. (as a note; I DO believe there are still a good few local town and county government Republicans around the country who ARE just as overtly racists as Democrats 60+ years ago. 

 

I don't know what Homer's views are or aren't and I wont speak for him; But I for one totally recognize and admit that the Democratic Party was a very racist and horrible party decades ago, and even today there are racists still in it. 

I don't hold any special "love" for the Democrats....it's just a political party that has some good ideas and some bad ideas.  But unfortunately, In America, you have 2 political parties with any real power that run the country, so even a flawed Democratic Party to me is miles better than the only other alternative I have.

 

[autigeremt 6,652]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:04 AM, homersapien said:

We need a new anthem, not because the current one is racist, but because it's virtually unsingable* and merely celebrates the outcome of a single battle instead of what the country is about.

* (The tune is from an English drinking song.)

If you can't see the symbolism in what Francis Scott Key wrote then you are a part of the problem! I'm sorry that you hate this country so much that you side with those who are doing everything they can to continually divide it along every possible line imaginable.

Actually I'm not sorry..........the more I think about it. 🤪

[autigeremt 6,652]

17 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

The Democrats being the party of overt racist 70+ years ago isn't a compelling reason for why Black people shouldn't vote for them now. 

And Yes, even after the parties switched places in the 1940-50's, there were still a lot of Democrats and liberals who were racists....because racism was engrained in the nation's culture for both political parties for most of American history. 

 

Saying " Well, Democrats used to be racists too" Isn't the slam dunk, clap-back that a lot of Republicans think it is. 

Every other thing in America that is tied to negative lineage is being erased. Why not this? 

[CoffeeTiger 5,135]

7 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

Every other thing in America that is tied to negative lineage is being erased. Why not this? 

Like what is being erased? 

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

I don't mind a new national anthem. 

The one we have now wasn't even officially adopted as the national anthem until 1931, I believe.

It's not like it's been around since the country started.

[I_M4_AU 7,873]

58 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

I don't mind a new national anthem. 

The one we have now wasn't even officially adopted as the national anthem until 1931, I believe.

It's not like it's been around since the country started.

Key wrote it in 1814, so it has been around a while and it did unite the country as far back as post Civil War.

Growing Popularity of “The Star-Spangled Banner” 

At first, “The Star-Spangled Banner” trailed “Yankee Doodle” and “Hail Columbia” in popularity among patriotic 19th-century tunes. But during and immediately after the Civil War, Key’s song gained a deeper meaning, as the American flag became an increasingly powerful symbol of national unity.

By the 1890s, the U.S military had adopted the song for ceremonial purposes, playing it to accompany the raising and lowering of the colors. In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson signed an executive order designating it “the national anthem of the United States.”

In 1931—more than 100 years after it was composed—Congress passed a measure declaring “The Star-Spangled Banner” as the official national anthem.

History of the National Anthem at Sporting Events 

“The Star-Spangled Banner” made its sporting-event debut in September 1918, during that year’s first World Series game between the Chicago Cubs and Boston Red Sox.

In addition to the ongoing toll of World War I, a cloud of violence hung over Chicago’s Comiskey Park, as a bomb had torn apart the Chicago Federal Building just the day before. During the seventh-inning stretch, the military band on hand struck up “The Star-Spangled Banner,” and in a moving spectacle, players and fans alike fell silent and saluted the flag.

The practice soon spread across major league baseball, and into other sports, and eventually became a widely accepted pregame tradition.

https://www.history.com/topics/19th-century/the-star-spangled-banner

If, in the future, America wants to change the “National Anthem” so be it, but right now the country would be so divided there would not be consensus for a single song that would unit the country.  That song has not been written yet to my knowledge.

[aubaseball 2,633]

On 9/29/2021 at 10:05 AM, homersapien said:

And we never will without more interracial marriage.

What does this even mean?    Are you implying that people can’t people can’t get along unless they marry a black person???? You have really lost sense of reality 

[homersapien 11,393]

21 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

Are you so uninformed that you don't know that yes, historically the Democratic Party is the party of black racism in America?  The KKK was the enforcement arm of the Democratic Party.  The Dixiecrats.  George Wallace was a Democrat.  These are facts.

And no, Lyndon Johnson was not a traitor.  He routinely called black people n*ggers when the cameras were not around.

Do you really not know these things?

Don't take my word for it, please.  Look it up.  Educate yourself a little.

I have forgotten more about history than you know. 

Hell I lived during a lot of it, in particular the stuff you are alluding to.

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

59 minutes ago, aubaseball said:

What does this even mean?    Are you implying that people can’t people can’t get along unless they marry a black person???? You have really lost sense of reality 

No that would be a totally simplistic  - not to say idiotic take. 

I am saying that we need to experience other races at the family level - church, dinners, reunions, celebrations, holidays, etc. 

The only place we are integrated now as a society is work and school, which makes it largely superficial.

(If you are that clueless please just ignore my posts in the future.) 

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

3 hours ago, autigeremt said:

If you can't see the symbolism in what Francis Scott Key wrote then you are a part of the problem! I'm sorry that you hate this country so much that you side with those who are doing everything they can to continually divide it along every possible line imaginable.

Actually I'm not sorry..........the more I think about it. 🤪

I don't "hate this country".    Stop being a total jackass.

And I am hardly the first person to criticize our national anthem, some for the lyrics, others for the virtually unsingable tune. (Google unsingable national anthem.)

They don't "hate our country" either.   You sound like some sort of fascist.

 

[homersapien 11,393]

20 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

Get use to it. The ones that are trying to justify the racist democrats in this thread are some of the biggest hypocrites we have on this site. Get used to the “that’s different” from them, it’s their go to card and they will always pull it out when needed. 

Who would that be?   Can you quote an example from them?

You are just spewing hate.

 

[homersapien 11,393]

19 hours ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

To the point that I believe the vast majority of them don't even realize they are doing it.  It's become such an ingrained part of the left culture.

Doing what, exactly?  What is "it"?  Criticizing our national anthem?

"You guys" are so inchoate with your venom directed at the "left".  Why is that?   

I submit it's because somewhere inside, you realize how foolish you sound.

[homersapien 11,393]

On 10/5/2021 at 10:36 AM, autigeremt said:

Every other thing in America that is tied to negative lineage is being erased. Why not this? 

By "erased" do you mean recognition of our faults and making an effort to improve?

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

24 minutes ago, homersapien said:

I have forgotten more about history than you know. 

Hell I lived during a lot of it, in particular the stuff you are alluding to.

Why would you pretend that isn't true, then?

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Doing what, exactly?  What is "it"?  Criticizing our national anthem?

"You guys" are so inchoate with your venom directed at the "left".  Why is that?   

I submit it's because somewhere inside, you realize how foolish you sound.

If you didn't read what i wrote carefully enough to be able to figure out the answer to your question, I'd refer you back for another read.  If that part didn't absorb, there's bound to be other parts that didn't as well.

And why do you deny that you're bitter?  You even call yourself an angry old man.

[homersapien 11,393]

On 10/4/2021 at 2:33 PM, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

It doesn't matter to Democrats.  Not when another Democrat says it.  You're living proof.  

And I didn't say his racism.  I said his racist statements.  The former presumes to know what he thinks.  The latter is objectively verifiable—it refers to events that actually happened.  Shall I post that list I asked about earlier?

Biden's "racism" is no different than the "racism" that resides in all of us, black or white.

And yeah, post those links.  It will only prove my point.

Edited October 6, 2021 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,393]

2 minutes ago, Shoney'sPonyBoy said:

If you didn't read what i wrote carefully enough to be able to figure out the answer to your question, I'd refer you back for another read.  If that part didn't absorb, there's bound to be other parts that didn't as well.

And why do you deny that you're bitter?  You even call yourself an angry old man.

Nice obfuscation and avoidance.  Can't compose a single sentence?

And I am not "bitter".  And bitter about what exactly?

I am realistic.  70 years of life experience will do that to you.

[Shoney'sPonyBoy 350]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

Key wrote it in 1814, so it has been around a while and it did unite the country as far back as post Civil War.

Growing Popularity of “The Star-Spangled Banner” 

At first, “The Star-Spangled Banner” trailed “Yankee Doodle” and “Hail Columbia” in popularity among patriotic 19th-century tunes. But during and immediately after the Civil War, Key’s song gained a deeper meaning, as the American flag became an increasingly powerful symbol of national unity.

By the 1890s, the U.S military had adopted the song for ceremonial purposes, playing it to accompany the raising and lowering of the colors. In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson signed an executive order designating it “the national anthem of the United States.”

In 1931—more than 100 years after it was composed—Congress passed a measure declaring “The Star-Spangled Banner” as the official national anthem.

History of the National Anthem at Sporting Events 

“The Star-Spangled Banner” made its sporting-event debut in September 1918, during that year’s first World Series game between the Chicago Cubs and Boston Red Sox.

In addition to the ongoing toll of World War I, a cloud of violence hung over Chicago’s Comiskey Park, as a bomb had torn apart the Chicago Federal Building just the day before. During the seventh-inning stretch, the military band on hand struck up “The Star-Spangled Banner,” and in a moving spectacle, players and fans alike fell silent and saluted the flag.

The practice soon spread across major league baseball, and into other sports, and eventually became a widely accepted pregame tradition.

https://www.history.com/topics/19th-century/the-star-spangled-banner

If, in the future, America wants to change the “National Anthem” so be it, but right now the country would be so divided there would not be consensus for a single song that would unit the country.  That song has not been written yet to my knowledge.

Yes, I know it was written long before it became the official anthem of the country.

I honor the fact that this country experienced a major failure to live up to her ideals for the vast majority of our existence. I was in church recently and my pastor was preaching on freedom and how the United States was founded on freedom and the whole time in my head I was thinking, "Only if you were white.  And male."  This is a fact, and it's something we have to deal with.

I don't blame certain people who don't feel a part of the United States when the SSB plays.  Why would they?  They don't associate it with what my pastor and I associate it with, and they would have no reason to.  Think about this:  my grandparents were born in around 1900.  Think about what life was like for black people in 1900.  And women, for that matter.  And that's only two generations away from where I sit.  Black people my age are only two generations away from what was happening in the early 1900s.  My parents were born around 1940.  That's just one generation away from where I sit.

If I were black I don't think I would have any resonance with that song whatsoever.

So I can understand wanting a new anthem.  Agreeing upon what it should be is another problem, but I think we can solve the first problem by people like myself not opposing the efforts to facilitate something like that.  Black America, I can never understand what life has been like for you, but I understand you want to be acknowledged and shown the same consideration our parents and grandparents and great-grandparents were shown.  I'm o.k. with that, and frankly it's strange to me that anyone else wouldn't be.  (Not that you wouldn't be...that's a general statement not aimed at you.) 

[homersapien 11,393]

21 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

They all had their racist members, but I can't help it that the democratic party has very deep roots in the racism especially systemic racism here in America. LBJ was one of the most racist of them all. All his work with the Civil Right's Acts doesn't erase that part of his history. (But democrats aren't supposed to talk about that right?)

Look at Biden, look at his history of words and actions and he has a long history of being racist. You are correct about the media, they want to show him trying to make changes to some of the things that contributed to the systemic racism problem we have today..........but they don't show that he voted for and wanted many of the things he now wants to change. 

No s***. 

I lived in Birmingham most of my life.  I was there for the firehoses, dogs, Bull Conner and the church bombing, followed by George Wallace (a Democrat).

If you really think I don't understand the history of the Democratic party you are nuts.

I understand recent political history and I am willing to discuss it in a rational way.  But trying to equate today's Democratic Party to the one in the 60's is not rational.  It reveals an ignorance of how political parties can change.  It's not relevant today.

Edited October 5, 2021 by homersapien