Are we ready to admit

[Didba 5,256]

9 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

If I was a fair weather fan I wouldn't have anything to say. I wouldn't care. I wouldn't go through the downs. And let me tell you, these are some down times. 

I'm extremely positive when I see positive. I'm an optimist. I always believe Auburn can find a way. Go look at my post history.

But I'm not delusional, and I don't lie to myself. Lying to ourselves is how Gus stuck around for so long. You guys need to clam up if you can't stare problems in the face. Unconditional positivity is actually a very bad thing in any performance-based endeavor.

You just don't know man, its okay.

[AUght2win 6,837]

3 minutes ago, Didba said:

Its the opposite man, look at the likes on my posts then look at yours. I have 10-15 likes on posts saying the same stuff I just said to you throughout the thread. You in the minority lmao.

Look at the OP for a check on the board's temperature. 

[Didba 5,256]

3 minutes ago, AUght2win said:

Look at the OP for a check on the board's temperature. 

That's the first post lmao it's always gonna have more stuff then later posts. You are a perfect example of the dunning-kruger effect

[AUght2win 6,837]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

That's the first post lmao it's always gonna have more stuff then later posts. You are a perfect example of the dunning-kruger effect

I love it when posters throw psychological diagnoses at complete strangers when losing arguments about football. 

[Auburnfan91 1,407]

38 minutes ago, Taco said:

Not arguing on what Pittman has accomplished. Let’s not forget he went 3-7 his first year, but his earned his hype going into 2021 by making an embarrassing Arkansas team into a competitive one. 
 

Let’s look past the stars for a little bit. Arkansas for all their faults under Chad Morris and lower recruiting rankings still recruited Olinemen more than Gus and his top-15 classes. I think it’s @bigbird who likes to point out in the last 3 recruiting classes for Gus, he only recruited 1 OT, compared to Arkansas who recruited 4 alone in the 2019 class. 
 

Our Oline recruiting since 2015, dare I even say back to 2013 has been very hodgepodge. Under-sized linemen, transfers who were supposed to be stopgaps, and just a lack of development and depth in the end in the position led us to where we are today. 

I would also argue about “a lot more talent” as well. Could you argue we have more talent? Sure. But a lot more? Eh.
 

And let’s not forget, we did handedly defeat Pittman and the Hogs this year before injuries and lack of depth took a toll on both of our lines. 

Arkansas's O-line had been terrible for years. Just because they recruited more O-line players than we did still doesn't equate to talent.  You don't go 4-8(2017), 2-10(2018), and 2-10(2019) with a combined 1-23 record in SEC games for those 3 years like Arkansas did if you've got that much talent on the O-line. 

Arkansas's scoring offense rankings

110th ranked scoring offense in 2019
114th ranked scoring offense in 2018
61st ranked scoring offense in 2017

KJ Jefferson played some in 2019 under Chad Morris. He's improved dramatically as a QB under Pittman because of the OC Kendal Briles and also because Arkansas's O-line has gotten much better. It's coaching plus developing which Pittman has proven, not just talent.

[cole256 17,066]

Ok cool. Then people should shut up and let our coach develop his team and stop all the b.s.crying

[cole256 17,066]

8 hours ago, AUght2win said:

This also doesn't help your credibility. We were on a historic 4 game skid, just lost our 3 year starting QB and were in danger of having a losing season. Add to the fact that Auburn fans turned out to support a less than stellar team. 

If you think yesterday didn't matter, you're just out of touch. We needed to win. We needed something positive going into the offseason.

Credibility to who?

[augolf1716 21,140]

13 hours ago, JuscAUse! said:

You and your common sense crap! 

Fixed it for you sorry couldn't resist

[Hay Field 101 630]

8 hours ago, Didba said:

That's the first post lmao it's always gonna have more stuff then later posts. You are a perfect example of the dunning-kruger effect

does that mean that we still suck?

[W.E.D 11,070]

10 hours ago, bigbird said:

I agree that outside of the OL we have talent.  Some areas deeper than others.

OL and QB

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

9 hours ago, AUght2win said:

This also doesn't help your credibility. We were on a historic 4 game skid, just lost our 3 year starting QB and were in danger of having a losing season. Add to the fact that Auburn fans turned out to support a less than stellar team. 

If you think yesterday didn't matter, you're just out of touch. We needed to win. We needed something positive going into the offseason.

It meant less than nothing in the grand scheme of the program.  I only watched in hopes of seeing DD play.

Exactly two bowl games have meaning now and the Birmingham Bowl ain't one 'em.

[abw0004 10,113]

6 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Exactly two bowl games have meaning now and the Birmingham Bowl ain't one 'em.

Exactly.  If you aren't in the LendingTree Bowl or the Bad Boy Mowers Gasparilla Bowl, your bowl doesn't matter.

[augolf1716 21,140]

9 hours ago, Didba said:

dunning-kruger effect

Damn had to look that one up............

[fredst 9,064]

4 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Damn had to look that one up............

Me too. But, I would say that is sums up my interactions with the administrators at work nicely.

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, Hay Field 101 said:

does that mean that we still suck?

yes.

[slyinsocal 831]

On 12/28/2021 at 1:08 PM, AUght2win said:

I'm longtime Anti-Gus. I'm pro-Harsin hire. Don't even start with that. 

But are we ready to admit there are some serious game management red flags with CBH? 

This was almost an exact rerun of Alabama. We completely seized up again in the 4th quarter. 30 total yards. Huge momentum shift with the Wooten INT, similar to the late 4th down stops in the IB. Houston was on death's door.

But the 3 plays following that huge turnover couldn't have been worse. Two bombs. Going away from Tank, who had over 160 total yards.

And of course, DD deserved at least one series today. He couldn't have possibly been worse than TJ today.

The play calling in non-clutch situations was better. But I don't know, man. The inability to finish games or situational play-call or make personnel decisions isn't going to be solved by the portal or recruiting. Somebody convince me this is a bug and not a feature.

Please share this information with the coaching staff. I'm sure they'll suffer the same level of anger and deep emotional depression with every word. 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

On 12/28/2021 at 3:18 PM, aubaseball said:

Actually the possession you are talking about was great play calls.   The first down call was beautiful.   The receiver was open 5 yards behind the defense and the pass was 10 yards off the mark. The plays called are plays that are made to get points, not to run clock.  It’s the same in the Alabama game.   7,9 or 10 minutes left in the game is not the time to go conservative when only leading by one score.  
Even as bad as Auburn’s Oline is, if Auburn had 5 other SEC quarterbacks playing for Auburn instead of their current team, I would say that three or touchdowns would have completed today .  

Only one fault to your logic. If you know you have a QB that is not reliable passer ( means he can hit some great passes and totally puke on others ) do you put the game in his hands at that crucial moment or go with something safer like running Tank. Calling plays includes calling plays you think your team has an efficient chance of completing . 🤔

[japantiger 4,051]

17 hours ago, aubaseball said:

So now we are switching from scheme to points scored?   I didn’t know we had switched to that.   That’s a different discussion.   Was auburn not scoring enough points?  Of course not and it’s not even debatable.   That falls under a variety of issues; poor execution, poor play calls, lack of talent, bad luck, untimely penalties and on and on.   
 

This is just a hypothetical question but what do you think Auburn’s record would have been if Bryce Young, Matt Corral, Max Johnson, Stetson Bennett, JT Danials or the QB from Miss State were the QB at Auburn?

Not switching...it's an "and"...his scheme mismatched players and ability.  We made poor decisions and scheming (failure to play to strengths, failure to mitigate weaknesses, failure to accept we had poor QB's who get worse as the game goes on (look at our 4th qtr comp %, it's 45%; look at our comp % downfield, poor clock management, etc.); which all now look like Harsin's decisions, not Bobo's...and as a result, with mostly the same talent, we produced less points against SEC (our conference) competition.  This is really what matters...champions are scoing 45+ points per game...we scored half that (by going backwards).  

If you've read my past posts; I have been all in on giving Harsin time to correct the talent issues...I think he has a 4 to5 year talent gap due to how long it takes a staff to get to know the talent and when these conversations start now (A&M just got a commit from a 9th grader).  Hopefully he can mitigate some of that thru the portal; but there aren't diamonds out there in the portal...mostly it's dirt...the best he will be able to do is get some marginal improvement in a couple of spots...he can't remake and materially improve this team thru the portal.  I am pleased with his recruiting so far...to still have a shot at top 10 class this year is outstanding.

What I did expect Harsin to do was build a tough as nails team that focuses on execution and a coaching staff that knows it has to be "perfect" while it is outgunned (think Army every year; they somehow win 8-10 games while fielding inferior talent).  Auburn cannot afford sloppy play, poor fundamentals, boneheaded calls, wasted timeouts, poor clock management in the clutch (re: Iron Bowl; re: last 5 minutes of Bham Bowl, etc.)... I expect execution to be inconsistent because we are playing lesser talent against far better talent.  I don't expect the Head coach to contribute and play into the problem (I think position coaches have done a pretty good job).  After 13 games now; I am unconvinced this Head coach delivered on that.  I predicted 6 wins this year...I got it.  I did not see the improvements where I expected them and where this staff needed to deliver them.  I hope the new OC hire fixes the now multiyear and multicoach s***-show we call an offense.  The defense delivered numbers that should have produced a better outcome.

Some have tried to liken this team to Dye's 1st...I believe I was the 1st to say that is what I was looking for when I made my 6 win prediction after A-day.  Dye's team played outstanding defense, hit like a hammer on  both sides of the ball, with an offense that couldn't execute to save it's life (with far lesser relative talent than Harsin's team has).  Some even mentioned the TN game from 1981...we lost that game because we fumbled on their 4 yd line on the last play of the game.  Basic execution.  But we fumbled trying to do what we could do well and what had kept us in the game for 4 quarters....we didn't fumble by having  Ken Hobby try to throw the ball on a play he obviously couldn't make.  We lost simply because our talent couldn't get it done...the staff had put them in perfect position to make it happen, called the right play (a play they could execute well) at the right time and a kid who shouldn't have been on the field fumbled because the prior staff couldn't recruit to save their lives.  

[Didba 5,256]

26 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Basic execution.  But we fumbled trying to do what we could do well and what had kept us in the game for 4 quarters....we didn't fumble by having  Ken Hobby try to throw the ball on a play he obviously couldn't make.  We lost simply because our talent couldn't get it done...the staff had put them in perfect position to make it happen, called the right play (a play they could execute well) at the right time and a kid who shouldn't have been on the field fumbled because the prior staff couldn't recruit to save their lives.  

Switch out the names and the plays and you just described the end of the Houston game.

running on short yardage into a stacked box was not a play we could execute well at the end of the Houston game, both of the short passes however, were short, high percentage passes to complete when the defense is selling out to stop the run.  Finley had already completed a couple similar short passes earlier in the game and probably completes them all the time in practice.  The run play with Tank would have failed miserably just like it had the previous drive.

[ChristoThor 70]

I understand the frustration with the reliance on passing in the game, but how are we supposed to run the ball all the time. I understand that Tank is our best and most reliable offensive asset. That is the thing though. Houston knew this as well. He had a good yard per carry stat during the game I won't argue that. I think if we stuck with running the ball with Tank that stat would have fallen drastically and we would have seen even more stops at or behind the line of scrimmage. We can't fully utilize Tank until we get more threats on offense. It would have been bad play calling to just keep giving Tank the ball. Houston was waiting on us to give the ball to Tank and that is why the passing plays were good calls. Yes I agree that we don't have a reliable quarterback, but he has made pass plays and if he can make the pass we are going to be in a great position. We just couldn't pull it off. That doesn't mean it was not the right thing to try at the time.

[Didba 5,256]

44 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Only one fault to your logic. If you know you have a QB that is not reliable passer ( means he can hit some great passes and totally puke on others ) do you put the game in his hands at that crucial moment or go with something safer like running Tank. Calling plays includes calling plays you think your team has an efficient chance of completing . 🤔

but we didn't have an "an efficient chance of completing" the run on short yardage. We had already tried it and gotten stuffed whereas TJ had completed several short passes already in the game to convert.  Plus, when a the defense sells out to defend the run the short little passes will be open which they were.  Players just didn't execute but they still had a higher chance of success then running Tank into a stacked line of scrimmage where it had already failed once miserably, with our oline getting pushed backwards and our RB getting tackled for a 2 yard loss.

[metafour 4,969]

37 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Only one fault to your logic. If you know you have a QB that is not reliable passer ( means he can hit some great passes and totally puke on others ) do you put the game in his hands at that crucial moment or go with something safer like running Tank. Calling plays includes calling plays you think your team has an efficient chance of completing . 🤔

What makes you think that running into a stacked front on an obvious running down is something that this team has an "efficient chance of completing"? We were in that same scenario at least 2-3 times earlier in the game and didn't convert. We've been in that same scenario in every game we've lost, and have continuously failed to convert. At no point this season has this team been able to get a push up front on OBVIOUS running downs where the defense is also selling out to stop the run.

Here's what kills me: everyone is aware that our OL has not been good at run-blocking, and yet, "smart play calling" is apparently suggested to be self-castrating our offense, to make it even easier for the defense to just stack the box and run-blitz? Even Gus Malzahn understood that in order for his running game to do anything, he'd need to complete passes down the field...that's why so much of his offense was dependent on testing the defense deep.

The reason why we had so many chances down the field is because Houston was playing to stop the run. That's what basically everyone has done against us all year long. Even in games when Tank ran well, the yards came on non-obvious running plays that were schemed well. In those same games, when we tried to run on short-yardage downs where the defense was crowding the line, we rarely succeeded.

As a play-caller, the goal is to call the plays that allow you to score. That's what we did, and the plays were there to be made. If your players can't make those plays, then it's time to go find ones that can. At least now they know for sure what they do or don't have in TJ Finley; better to find that out in the Birmingham Bowl than to try to "hide" his deficiencies and hope for the best next season.

[aubaseball 2,607]

46 minutes ago, japantiger said:

Not switching...it's an "and"...his scheme mismatched players and ability.  We made poor decisions and scheming (failure to play to strengths, failure to mitigate weaknesses, failure to accept we had poor QB's who get worse as the game goes on (look at our 4th qtr comp %, it's 45%; look at our comp % downfield, poor clock management, etc.); which all now look like Harsin's decisions, not Bobo's...and as a result, with mostly the same talent, we produced less points against SEC (our conference) competition.  This is really what matters...champions are scoing 45+ points per game...we scored half that (by going backwards).  

If you've read my past posts; I have been all in on giving Harsin time to correct the talent issues...I think he has a 4 to5 year talent gap due to how long it takes a staff to get to know the talent and when these conversations start now (A&M just got a commit from a 9th grader).  Hopefully he can mitigate some of that thru the portal; but there aren't diamonds out there in the portal...mostly it's dirt...the best he will be able to do is get some marginal improvement in a couple of spots...he can't remake and materially improve this team thru the portal.  I am pleased with his recruiting so far...to still have a shot at top 10 class this year is outstanding.

What I did expect Harsin to do was build a tough as nails team that focuses on execution and a coaching staff that knows it has to be "perfect" while it is outgunned (think Army every year; they somehow win 8-10 games while fielding inferior talent).  Auburn cannot afford sloppy play, poor fundamentals, boneheaded calls, wasted timeouts, poor clock management in the clutch (re: Iron Bowl; re: last 5 minutes of Bham Bowl, etc.)... I expect execution to be inconsistent because we are playing lesser talent against far better talent.  I don't expect the Head coach to contribute and play into the problem (I think position coaches have done a pretty good job).  After 13 games now; I am unconvinced this Head coach delivered on that.  I predicted 6 wins this year...I got it.  I did not see the improvements where I expected them and where this staff needed to deliver them.  I hope the new OC hire fixes the now multiyear and multicoach s***-show we call an offense.  The defense delivered numbers that should have produced a better outcome.

Some have tried to liken this team to Dye's 1st...I believe I was the 1st to say that is what I was looking for when I made my 6 win prediction after A-day.  Dye's team played outstanding defense, hit like a hammer on  both sides of the ball, with an offense that couldn't execute to save it's life (with far lesser relative talent than Harsin's team has).  Some even mentioned the TN game from 1981...we lost that game because we fumbled on their 4 yd line on the last play of the game.  Basic execution.  But we fumbled trying to do what we could do well and what had kept us in the game for 4 quarters....we didn't fumble by having  Ken Hobby try to throw the ball on a play he obviously couldn't make.  We lost simply because our talent couldn't get it done...the staff had put them in perfect position to make it happen, called the right play (a play they could execute well) at the right time and a kid who shouldn't have been on the field fumbled because the prior staff couldn't recruit to save their lives.  

You are talking in circles.   I’m not sure how to respond to your post.  But I will try;  what is poor clock management in the Bama game and bowl game?  If you are referring to the plays that were called during 4th quarter that is something that has been beaten to death.   If I take it correctly, you are talking about the passes in the bowl game and the interception in the Bama game.   Both times there was over 7:30 minutes left in the both games and auburn was only up one score.   If you have a problem with a coach that is trying to move the ball to score in that situation, I don’t think you should be cheering for any team.  As history showed, it only took Alabama 1:20 to drive 97 yards to tie the game.   Besides every play that I assume you had a problem with was poorly executed, just like the football you mentioned with the 81 game.  
besides shedrick Jackson, what other receiver played last year?  The tight ends might as have not have played because Gus never threw the ball to them.   Tank and Bo (Oline, if you want to count that as a positive) were the only returning position players.   
you talk about basic execution that resulted in a loss in 81, but don’t seem to grasp that basic execution resulted several losses this season.   In today’s football, HS quarterbacks play year around, summer 7x7.   A power 5 college quarterback should be able to connect on 50% of deep passes.   Auburn wins 10 games if this would have happened this year, not even an argument.   I would even state that if Auburn had Bryce Young, they would have played in the SEC championship and possibly CFP.  That’s even with the bad Oline.   
it wasn’t coaching that auburn was 6-6, auburn doesn’t have the players.   Either get an all American Oline or an all American qb.   

[steeleagle 2,945]

15 hours ago, AUght2win said:

This also doesn't help your credibility. We were on a historic 4 game skid, just lost our 3 year starting QB and were in danger of having a losing season. Add to the fact that Auburn fans turned out to support a less than stellar team. 

If you think yesterday didn't matter, you're just out of touch. We needed to win. We needed something positive going into the offseason.

You know nothing about me, and my comments had nothing to do with you, but the game.

Why are you coming back and decide to insult me just bc I have a different opinion? 

If you want to talk about trying to win a game, I agree with you, but the decisions made are what we are discussing, and not my damn credibility.

Please stay on point if you want to discuss just the game

Edited December 30, 2021 by steeleagle

[cole256 17,066]

I realize I didn't answer op question. Me and op had a rough start but I've come to really respect him and I hope he feels the same. But one thing I'll say about him is he's not just arguing to argue, he feels how he says and any debate he's going to have some stuff to offer. He's going to make you think.

With all that being said my antenna will certainly be up. But it's not because of us losing the last few games. I feel like if you really want to evaluate a coach it's that second year that tells you the most