Stripping Funding from the IRS is a Tax Cut for the Wealthy.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/10/87000-irs-agents-is-zombie-falsehood-setting-house-agenda/

 

The claim that the IRS funding bill is hiring 87,000 "Agents" is a 100% lie. Republicans keep repeating it anyway...and Republican voters keep believing it.

 

This is an example of Democrats making a potentially unpopular move (funding the IRS) but one that is necessary for the functioning of the US government and for increasing our nations tax revenue to what it legally should be (thus helping with the budget deficit), while Republicans tell lie after lie about what the funding is to be used for and want to undo it based solely on populist partisan politics. 

Statistics show that as Republicans have stripped funding and resources from the IRS over the years the number of audits for the wealthy drastically decrease and the amount of properly owed taxes collected from the wealthy decrease. The weaker the IRS becomes the easier it is for the wealthy to hide taxable income and avoid their fair share of the tax bill. A strong IRS doesn't give a s*** about joe Schmoe not reporting the $1000 in handyman work he did over the year, they care about the $10 million in taxable income that a fat cat routes through his shell companies to try and fool the IRS, but when the IRS doesn't have the technology or manpower to do proper audits, Joe Schmoe is the easier, quicker, and cheaper person to go after. The weaker the IRS, the longer it takes for normal Americans to get back their refunds, and the less customer support that can be given to normal Americans. 

This proposal by Republicans is bad budgeting, its bad for the national deficit, it's bad for normal Americans (that benefit the most from the taxes the wealthy pay), and it's bad for the functioning of our federal government. 

 

"The figure had been plucked from a Treasury report released in May 2021 about how the administration hoped to address the “tax gap” — the difference between what is owed to the government and what is actually paid. That difference was thought to be at least $381 billion a year, with most of it due to underreporting of income, according to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.

One major problem is that the IRS does not have enough experienced revenue agents who can tackle complex tax returns. In a May report last year, the Government Accountability Office said audit rates have declined dramatically for the super rich. In 2010, more than 21 percent of tax returns reporting more than $10 million in income were audited — and that dropped to 3.9 percent by 2019, the GAO said.

The IRS has about 79,000 employees, down from about 95,000 in fiscal year 2012. But the new hiring does not mean the agency’s staff will double, as some Republicans claimed during debate on the legislation. The Congressional Budget Office assumes, absent additional funding, IRS staffing would keep falling to about 60,000 in 10 years, so the funding would allow a doubling from that base, or an increase of 50 percent from today’s levels.

But Treasury officials say that because of attrition, after 10 years of increasing spending, the size of the agency should grow only 25 to 30 percent when the hiring burst is completed. In congressional testimony in 2021, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said the agency will need to “replace more than 50,000 workers lost through attrition over the next six years.”

[icanthearyou 4,463]

These people are spitting in our faces and,,, we are too stupid to understand it.

Power does not reside in the federal government.  Power resides in the over class.

The more we entrench and yield to that power, the more society will deteriorate.

Liberty, justice, equality. 

This patronage system is tyranny.

[creed 1,649]

I don’t have any problem with increasing funding for more irs agents and methods to automate audits. I’ve seen too many instances of deliberate cash transactions to avoid paying taxes on legitimate transactions. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Oh yeah,,, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are next. 

Your employment taxes have been stolen.

The consequences of the destruction of organized labor are vast and, highly underestimated.  Like it or not, the political donations from organized labor neutralized the money of the capital class.

Now,,, we have an over class with almost limitless power.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

If we would simplify the tax code, remove most of the deductions, all of the loopholes, we would need far less bureaucracy.  Unfortunately, that would mean the extremely wealthy would pay much more so,,, it won't happen.

Taxation should be about earnings and, nothing else.  Certainly not about who can afford the best/most tax accountants/lawyers.

Power > equality, fairness, justice, democracy. 

[homersapien 11,440]

Republican demoguery on this is blatant. They are clearly courting the ignorant and gullible, aka, your typical MAGAs.

[CoffeeTiger 5,169]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Republican demoguery on this is blatant. They are clearly courting the ignorant and gullible, aka, your typical MAGAs.

 

Not just the MAGA's either. Even moderate Republicans and Libertarians  fall into the trap of believing, "The IRS is an evil organization and is corrupt and needs to be defunded/weak. "

 

It's like "Defund the police", except the IRS is the 'police' force in charge of enforcing the tax code. If you don't give them the resources they need then tax efficiency crumbles and it encourages more tax crime and fraud because there is less of a chance of getting caught. 

[creed 1,649]

6 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Oh yeah,,, Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid are next. 

Your employment taxes have been stolen.

The consequences of the destruction of organized labor are vast and, highly underestimated.  Like it or not, the political donations from organized labor neutralized the money of the capital class.

Now,,, we have an over class with almost limitless power.

Juat a question. What is your definition of the over class?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

35 minutes ago, creed said:

Juat a question. What is your definition of the over class?

Our own class of oligarchs.  The ~400 individuals who own the majority of this country and, a significant portion of the world.

[jj3jordan 2,059]

Time for the Fair Tax. Call your congressman/woman/gender of choice today!!

[Didba 5,256]

21 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

If we would simplify the tax code, remove most of the deductions, all of the loopholes, we would need far less bureaucracy.  Unfortunately, that would mean the extremely wealthy would pay much more so,,, it won't happen.

Taxation should be about earnings and, nothing else.  Certainly not about who can afford the best/most tax accountants/lawyers.

Power > equality, fairness, justice, democracy. 

Just to add onto this Federal Income Tax law was the hardest class I took in law school. The tax code is extremely long and unwieldy and it was even worse before the most recent revisions. 

Hotchpot. Subhotchpot. Capital gains. 1231 property.

Don't ask. Also, dont ask me how I made a B in that class. Oh yeah, it was open book/notes, which is extremely rare in law school.

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

21 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

If we would simplify the tax code, remove most of the deductions, all of the loopholes, we would need far less bureaucracy.  Unfortunately, that would mean the extremely wealthy would pay much more so,,, it won't happen.

Taxation should be about earnings and, nothing else.  Certainly not about who can afford the best/most tax accountants/lawyers.

Power > equality, fairness, justice, democracy. 

So proud of you for saying something sensible and understandable ICHY.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

33 minutes ago, Didba said:

Just to add onto this Federal Income Tax law was the hardest class I took in law school. The tax code is extremely long and unwieldy and it was even worse before the most recent revisions. 

Hotchpot. Subhotchpot. Capital gains. 1231 property.

Don't ask. Also, dont ask me how I made a B in that class. Oh yeah, it was open book/notes, which is extremely rare in law school.

Yes.  Largest grading curve I have ever seen in a class.  If I remember correctly, a 58 and above average was graded as an A in my class.  I felt like I was king of the idiots.

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Yes.  Largest grading curve I have ever seen in a class.  If I remember correctly, a 58 and above average was graded as an A in my class.  I felt like I was king of the idiots.

Hold on, are you an attorney, accountant or some masochist who took that course outside of those two disciplines?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, Didba said:

Hold on, are you an attorney, accountant or some masochist who took that course outside of those two disciplines?

The answer is C.

Didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up.  Thirty five years later,,, still haven't and,,, still don't know.

My senior year I took some grad level courses for "fun".  A few other fun ones I took that were nearly impossible:

Quantitative/Multiregression Analysis, very fun.  Prof was a 24 year old MIT Phd grad.  He was likely from another planet.  He just could not understand how dumb the average person is.

Political Science, fascinating now, barely understood anything then.

Philosophy, (Dropped, don't have that depth of thinking)

Competing Economic Systems (Taught by the former Minister of Transportation under the Shah of Iran.  Guy was a dolt but,,, he had great stories, wore really expensive suits that were 40 years out of style).

 

[Didba 5,256]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The answer is C.

Didn't know what I wanted to be when I grew up.  Thirty five years later,,, still haven't and,,, still don't know.

My senior year I took some grad level courses for "fun".  A few other fun ones I took that were nearly impossible:

Quantitative/Multiregression Analysis, very fun.  Prof was a 24 year old MIT Phd grad.  He was likely from another planet.  He just could not understand how dumb the average person is.

Political Science, fascinating now, barely understood anything then.

Philosophy, (Dropped, don't have that depth of thinking)

Competing Economic Systems (Taught by the former Minister of Transportation under the Shah of Iran.  Guy was a dolt but,,, he had great stories, wore really expensive suits that were 40 years out of style).

 

My undergrad degree was in PoliSci. Very stereotypical. I also had to take a course over advanced statistical analysis though we were using computer program like Stata to crunch polling numbers to try and predict different socioeconomic variables' impact on things like elections, fake news awareness, bias, etc.  I actually didn't think those were so bad.  A lot of complex reading, and writing but then look at what I do now. A lot of complex reading and writing.

I also took an upper level philosophy course my Junior year that I dropped. I had taken the prof's intro to philosophy course freshmen year and he was a young guy first year prof, very cool, would hang out at The Reserve in Auburn.  He convinced me one night to take his advanced such and such philosophy course.  I couldn't get into it, felt bad but ended up dropping so I could focus on LSATs.

I also had my fair share of economics courses that I hated.

Thanks for sharing!

[icanthearyou 4,463]

4 minutes ago, Didba said:

My undergrad degree was in PoliSci. Very stereotypical. I also had to take a course over advanced statistical analysis though we were using computer program like Stata to crunch polling numbers to try and predict different socioeconomic variables' impact on things like elections, fake news awareness, bias, etc.  I actually didn't think those were so bad.  A lot of complex reading, and writing but then look at what I do now. A lot of complex reading and writing.

I also took an upper level philosophy course my Junior year that I dropped. I had taken the prof's intro to philosophy course freshmen year and he was a young guy first year prof, very cool, would hang out at The Reserve in Auburn.  He convinced me one night to take his advanced such and such philosophy course.  I couldn't get into it, felt bad but ended up dropping so I could focus on LSATs.

I also had my fair share of economics courses that I hated.

Thanks for sharing!

My undergrad degree is Economics.

Interesting parallels.  You might be in need of immediate psychiatric evaluation.

[Mims44 1,889]

On 1/10/2023 at 11:59 AM, CoffeeTiger said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/01/10/87000-irs-agents-is-zombie-falsehood-setting-house-agenda/

 

The claim that the IRS funding bill is hiring 87,000 "Agents" is a 100% lie. Republicans keep repeating it anyway...and Republican voters keep believing it.

 

This is an example of Democrats making a potentially unpopular move (funding the IRS) but one that is necessary for the functioning of the US government and for increasing our nations tax revenue to what it legally should be (thus helping with the budget deficit), while Republicans tell lie after lie about what the funding is to be used for and want to undo it based solely on populist partisan politics. 

Statistics show that as Republicans have stripped funding and resources from the IRS over the years the number of audits for the wealthy drastically decrease and the amount of properly owed taxes collected from the wealthy decrease. The weaker the IRS becomes the easier it is for the wealthy to hide taxable income and avoid their fair share of the tax bill. A strong IRS doesn't give a s*** about joe Schmoe not reporting the $1000 in handyman work he did over the year, they care about the $10 million in taxable income that a fat cat routes through his shell companies to try and fool the IRS, but when the IRS doesn't have the technology or manpower to do proper audits, Joe Schmoe is the easier, quicker, and cheaper person to go after. The weaker the IRS, the longer it takes for normal Americans to get back their refunds, and the less customer support that can be given to normal Americans. 

This proposal by Republicans is bad budgeting, its bad for the national deficit, it's bad for normal Americans (that benefit the most from the taxes the wealthy pay), and it's bad for the functioning of our federal government. 

 

"The figure had been plucked from a Treasury report released in May 2021 about how the administration hoped to address the “tax gap” — the difference between what is owed to the government and what is actually paid. That difference was thought to be at least $381 billion a year, with most of it due to underreporting of income, according to the nonpartisan Joint Committee on Taxation.

One major problem is that the IRS does not have enough experienced revenue agents who can tackle complex tax returns. In a May report last year, the Government Accountability Office said audit rates have declined dramatically for the super rich. In 2010, more than 21 percent of tax returns reporting more than $10 million in income were audited — and that dropped to 3.9 percent by 2019, the GAO said.

The IRS has about 79,000 employees, down from about 95,000 in fiscal year 2012. But the new hiring does not mean the agency’s staff will double, as some Republicans claimed during debate on the legislation. The Congressional Budget Office assumes, absent additional funding, IRS staffing would keep falling to about 60,000 in 10 years, so the funding would allow a doubling from that base, or an increase of 50 percent from today’s levels.

But Treasury officials say that because of attrition, after 10 years of increasing spending, the size of the agency should grow only 25 to 30 percent when the hiring burst is completed. In congressional testimony in 2021, IRS Commissioner Charles Rettig said the agency will need to “replace more than 50,000 workers lost through attrition over the next six years.”

Just as an FYI if anyone is interested. 

Check USAJOBs site, the IRS is hiring a ton.

Good paying positions too, I've put in for a few of their IT spots. (don't apply for those, I don't need more competition)  

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

10 hours ago, Didba said:

Just to add onto this Federal Income Tax law was the hardest class I took in law school. The tax code is extremely long and unwieldy and it was even worse before the most recent revisions. 

Hotchpot. Subhotchpot. Capital gains. 1231 property.

Don't ask. Also, dont ask me how I made a B in that class. Oh yeah, it was open book/notes, which is extremely rare in law school.

Hated open book. Problem was interpreting the questions.

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

4 hours ago, Didba said:

look at what I do now. A lot of complex reading and writing.

Lawyers can be the dumbest very smart people I know….or is it all an act?

[TexasTiger 13,006]

10 hours ago, Didba said:

Just to add onto this Federal Income Tax law was the hardest class I took in law school. The tax code is extremely long and unwieldy and it was even worse before the most recent revisions. 

Hotchpot. Subhotchpot. Capital gains. 1231 property.

Don't ask. Also, dont ask me how I made a B in that class. Oh yeah, it was open book/notes, which is extremely rare in law school.

Strangely, one of my best grades. Still not sure how that happened.

[1716AU 731]

On 1/10/2023 at 2:19 PM, homersapien said:

Republican demoguery on this is blatant. They are clearly courting the ignorant and gullible, aka, your typical MAGAs.

and Evangelicals, and the average Southerner who thinks education is a true hinderance or "Grooming"

Dickens warned us in the 19th century, but Ignorance is the norm in this country

[Didba 5,256]

12 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

Strangely, one of my best grades. Still not sure how that happened.

Well to be fair. It was the first full semester on zoom. I was a very happy to get a B in that class that semester bc at one point I was sure I'd fail it.

Edited January 12, 2023 by Didba

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Tax law was difficult because,,, nothing is fair, consistent or, logical. 

Being a good guesser is meaningless.

 

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Biden's IRS army is not coming for billionaires — it's coming for you

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/faith-freedom-self-reliance/bidens-irs-army-is-not-coming-for-billionaires-its-coming-for-you