Biblical Marriage

[Leftfield 2,660]

22 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

They read it in the Bible. So yeah pretty sure.

The term "circular logic" mean anything to you?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 hour ago, jj3jordan said:

They read it in the Bible. So yeah pretty sure.

Do human being have a long history of misusing, misinterpreting, misrepresenting biblical text?

I think you would be better served attempting to gain a greater understanding of the love of Jesus. 

[jj3jordan 2,061]

11 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Do human being have a long history of misusing, misinterpreting, misrepresenting biblical text?

I think you would be better served attempting to gain a greater understanding of the love of Jesus. 

Not bad advice, but ALL the knowledge of Jesus comes from the Bible. So I'm good.  People that DON'T believe the Bible are predictably torn regarding WHICH parts are true, believable, and should be implemented.  Human beings have a long history of sin.  That is why they need Jesus as their Savior.

[jj3jordan 2,061]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

The term "circular logic" mean anything to you?

As opposed to NO logic at all from the other side? Acting like you get to tell God what He is wrong about? Like what some other human believes has ANY bearing on whether YOU lefty go to hell or not?  Or having an admitted atheist/agnostic state that he has NOT rejected God/Jesus?  

[Leftfield 2,660]

10 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

As opposed to NO logic at all from the other side? Acting like you get to tell God what He is wrong about? Like what some other human believes has ANY bearing on whether YOU lefty go to hell or not?  Or having an admitted atheist/agnostic state that he has NOT rejected God/Jesus?  

Would love you to point out the flaw in my logic. If I'm wrong and every word of the Bible is the literal truth, then yep, I'm goin' to hell. The point is there are so many inconsistencies, including with what we teach people how to be compared to how God must be if we take the Bible as absolute. If it is, then either God is wrong, or we're teaching people wrong. Considering your stance so far, I'm assuming you would be on the side of people being wrong. Are you advocating for our society to live exactly as in Biblical times? Do you believe the punishments our system of justice dispenses should mirror those? Should the role that men, women, other races, and other cultures play in the Bible still be held today?

 

Edited May 19, 2023 by Leftfield

[jj3jordan 2,061]

4 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Would love you to point out the flaw in my logic. If I'm wrong and every word of the Bible is the literal truth, then yep, I'm goin' to hell. The point is there are so many inconsistencies, including with what we teach people how to be compared to how God must be if we take the Bible as absolute. If it is, then either God is wrong, or we're teaching people wrong. Considering your stance so far, I'm assuming you would be on the side of people being wrong. Are you advocating for our society to live exactly as in Biblical times? Do you believe the punishments our system of justice dispenses should mirror those? Should the role that men, women, other races, and other cultures play in the Bible still be held today?

 

My three unanswered questions in the previous post are the flaws in your logic. 

The Bible contains no inconsistencies. Attempts to prove otherwise have failed. 

The Old Testament has harsh legal system provisions for dealing with society as it was then about 4500 years ago, and for the Jewish people that God made covenants with over the decades.  No I do not advocate for our society to implement the system of justice that was in place in Biblical times. All of that changed with Jesus birth, life, death, and resurrection. Jesus gave His life to atone for our sins. He also offered His salvation to ALL people, eliminating race, creed, nationality, gender, past sins, etc, all of it. Not sure what roles that men, women, other races (other than what?) and other cultures are playing. All are equal regarding salvation, lost, or saved. 

"If I'm wrong and every word of the Bible is the literal truth, then yep, I'm goin' to hell."

Another flaw. You can still accept Jesus, believe the Bible, and go to Heaven.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

but ALL the knowledge of Jesus comes from the Bible.

No, it does not.  Much of it comes from a personal relationship through the holy spirit.  It is a spiritual endeavor.  You are "born again" into the spirit of the love of Jesus.  I hope you will explore.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

The Bible contains no inconsistencies. Attempts to prove otherwise have failed. 

Literally every single serious biblical scholar would argue with you.

[jj3jordan 2,061]

16 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

No, it does not.  Much of it comes from a personal relationship through the holy spirit.  It is a spiritual endeavor.  You are "born again" into the spirit of the love of Jesus.  I hope you will explore.

Yes. Where you learned about being born again, the Holy Spirit, unless Jesus came to you directly with no reference to the Bible. Which is possible. For me I learned of Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit from the Bible.  Whatever ICHY..deny the authenticity and truth of the Bible all you want. 

[jj3jordan 2,061]

21 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Literally every single serious biblical scholar would argue with you.

Literally not true. There are thousands who believe in the truth and perfection of the Bible. You should know some better Bible scholars. They don’t all deny the Bible. 

[SaltyTiger 7,861]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Of course I am. (Thanks to our freedom of thought and speech, which is something to be protected and not taken for granted.)

I am just trying to explain the concept of seeing biblical accounts as metaphor as opposed to literal fact. 

It is a useful - if not necessary -  option to address the inevitable cognitive dissonance of a "bible believer" who contrasts scientific fact (like evolution) with biblical myths.

(You apparently appreciate this as you have employed it yourself several times in this thread.)

I personally see the bible as cultural/religious myth passed down for centuries in oral and written form, through different cultures, languages and interpretations. It's literature. And  I respect the power of myth, so I wouldn't call it "gunk".

But - as an agnostic/atheist - I certainly do not believe it is the literal word of God any more than I believe any other religion represents the literal word of God. 

 

You must be trying to impress Nola. He is not impressed.
 

Six paragraphs to confirm what I asked while blatantly denying it. 

[NolaAuTiger 3,295]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Of course I am. (Thanks to our freedom of thought and speech, which is something to be protected and not taken for granted.)

I am just trying to explain the concept of seeing biblical accounts as metaphor as opposed to literal fact. 

It is a useful - if not necessary -  option to address the inevitable cognitive dissonance of a "bible believer" who contrasts scientific fact (like evolution) with biblical myths.

(You apparently appreciate this as you have employed it yourself several times in this thread.)

I personally see the bible as cultural/religious myth passed down for centuries in oral and written form, through different cultures, languages and interpretations. It's literature. And  I respect the power of myth, so I wouldn't call it "gunk".

But - as an agnostic/atheist - I certainly do not believe it is the literal word of God any more than I believe any other religion represents the literal word of God. 

 

I have a corollary question. I know you’re a proponent of environmental action and you support combatting climate change. Are any of your beliefs in this regard (relative to the environment/climate change) undergirded by a concern for future generations? If so, then, as an atheist, why is it rational to view the world beyond your own life time? What value does the atheist see in sacrificial/costly action for the sake of future generations? 

[gr82be 14,471]

On 5/18/2023 at 5:06 PM, homersapien said:

Exactly!  

Thanks for making my point.

That's one of the things that differentiate us. I'm not trying to make my point. I'm trying to make His. 

[homersapien 11,447]

19 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

They read it in the Bible. So yeah pretty sure.

You guys keep making my point. 

While I appreciate it on one level, it's also disturbing.

 

 

[homersapien 11,447]

17 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

You must be trying to impress Nola. He is not impressed.
 

Six paragraphs to confirm what I asked while blatantly denying it. 

First, I am sure Nola can speak for himself and doesn't require an interlocutor.

Secondly, I am confused by your last sentence. 

What do you mean by "confirming what you asked"?  I am willing to accept whatever you asked at face value without any need on my part to "confirm" it.  Therefore, I am not "blatantly denying" what you asked.

I am confused. You'll need to rewrite you post to make it clearer.

Edited May 20, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,447]

17 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

I have a corollary question. I know you’re a proponent of environmental action and you support combatting climate change.

1) Are any of your beliefs in this regard (relative to the environment/climate change) undergirded by a concern for future generations?

2) If so, then, as an atheist, why is it rational to view the world beyond your own life time?

3) What value does the atheist see in sacrificial/costly action for the sake of future generations? 

Good questions.  I'll take a crack at it:

1) Absolutely.  The very concept of conservation and/or intervention (in the case of global warming) is founded on a concern of "our" (humans) future, which by definition means future generations. 

2) Why should I - as an atheist - believe that the rest of the world ceases to exist when I die?  It will obviously continue - for better or worse. Simply as a human, why wouldn't I like to see the future as continuing for the better, instead of the worst, religion aside?

3) Presumably the same "value" a theist would see.  (See above.) 

Although, I do think some - if not many - theists see the future of the earth as totally irrelevant based on their belief that "God's kingdom" (whatever that is) takes precedence over the earth's future and it is therefore, a conceit of man that he has any power to alter God's will as (divine) destiny. See below:

https://grist.org/culture/what-evangelical-christians-really-think-about-climate-change/

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/11/17/religious-groups-views-on-climate-change/

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/14/923715751/the-loneliness-of-the-climate-change-christian

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/09/what-do-evangelical-christians-really-think-about-climate-change/

.....etc.

Again, this is not to say that attitude is universal among theists, but it's not uncommon.

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,447]

2 hours ago, gr82be said:

That's one of the things that differentiate us. I'm not trying to make my point. I'm trying to make His. 

You are confused.  I didn't say you were making your point, I said you were making mine. 

And my point more or less resides in your last sentence: You believe you are speaking for God.

So again, you are making my point.

Edited May 20, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,447]

20 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Literally not true. There are thousands who believe in the truth and perfection of the Bible. You should know some better Bible scholars. They don’t all deny the Bible. 

This is unfortunately true. 

And not just regarding the Christian religion, but others as well.  The only difference is the name of their "holy" text. 

A lot of evil has been done by those who believe were representing Gods will.

Edited May 20, 2023 by homersapien

[icanthearyou 4,463]

13 hours ago, NolaAuTiger said:

why is it rational to view the world beyond your own life time

Only a man without character would ask such a question.  Only someone purely self serving would pose such a question.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

30 minutes ago, homersapien said:

This is unfortunately true. 

And not just from the Christian religion, but from others as well.  The only difference is in the name of their "holy" text.

Not among legitimate bible scholars.

[SaltyTiger 7,861]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

Only a man without character would ask such a question.  Only someone purely self serving would pose such a question.

Brother Homer did not see being asked from “a man without character”. Who charged you with continuously judging everyone?
 

[SaltyTiger 7,861]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

You are confused.  I didn't say you were making your point, I said you were making mine. 

And my point more or less resides in your last sentence: You believe you are speaking for God.

So again, you are making my point.

No point actually. You do believe the Bible is a myth and creates harm don’t you?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

10 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Who charged you with continuously judging everyone

I am merely commenting on a statement.  I apologize if I have offended you.

[SaltyTiger 7,861]

2 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I am merely commenting on a statement.  I apologize if I have offended you.

You are not offending me and you can cut the mushy mealy mouth apology stuff. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

7 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

You are not offending me and you can cut the mushy mealy mouth apology stuff. 

I am sincere.  It is your choice to reject or, accept.  I am not trying to make you angry.