Biblical Marriage

[homersapien 11,440]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

Seriously,,, you want depth? 

It seemed pretty straight forward to me:  literal fact vs. metaphor.

But if I really need to explain it, I am willing to oblige. Especially for brother Salty.

Edited May 17, 2023 by homersapien

[gr82be 14,466]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

So, what do you think of the Quran?

I've truthfully never gone past the fact that they don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Trinity. As a Christian that just doesn't align with what I believe. When I was younger I believed differently in regard to other world beliefs (basically no harm no foul kind of thinking) but things that have happened in my life have strengthened my faith in one God and one way to Heaven. 

[homersapien 11,440]

5 minutes ago, gr82be said:

I've truthfully never gone past the fact that they don't believe that Jesus is the Son of God and part of the Trinity. As a Christian that just doesn't align with what I believe. When I was younger I believed differently in regard to other world beliefs (basically no harm no foul kind of thinking) but things that have happened in my life have strengthened my faith in one God and one way to Heaven. 

So, you think all Muslims are going to hell?

How about Jews?  Buddhists? Hindus?

Edited May 17, 2023 by homersapien

[gr82be 14,466]

1 minute ago, homersapien said:

So, you think all Muslims are going to hell?

All? There's still time so hopefully not. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

It seemed pretty straight forward to me:  literal fact vs. metaphor.

But if I really need to explain it, I am willing to oblige. Especially for brother Salty.

Good luck getting any substance/depth from him.

[Leftfield 2,654]

2 hours ago, gr82be said:

All? There's still time so hopefully not. 

You do understand they think the same about Christians?

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

A willingness to accept scientific explanations as "how God worked" is the very definition of treating biblical accounts as metaphor instead of literal fact.

No it is not. You need to think about it. 

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

You do understand they think the same about Christians?

What does that matter when you are firm in your belief?
 

 

[gr82be 14,466]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

You do understand they think the same about Christians?

Unfortunately yes. 

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

4 hours ago, homersapien said:

So, you think all Muslims are going to hell?

How about Jews?  Buddhists? Hindus?

I struggle with that question. Jesus did say “ No one will come to Father except through me”. 
Does that mean replicating his life as best you can given your circumstances? 

[gr82be 14,466]

1 minute ago, SaltyTiger said:

I struggle with that question. Jesus did say “ No one will come to Father except through me”. 

The ones that don't believe that sadly can't understand it. 

[Leftfield 2,654]

9 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I struggle with that question. Jesus did say “ No one will come to Father except through me”. 
Does that mean replicating his life as best you can given your circumstances? 

I would hope that's what it means. If not, many children born into other cultures and with other beliefs, by that way of thinking, have no chance at meeting God, through no fault of their own. Some are immersed in cultures where Christianity isn't even mentioned. They will go their entire lives possibly never hearing the name Jesus, much less having the chance to learn about Him. 

Could you accept that God would refuse them entrance into heaven due to reasons completely beyond their control? That they have to pay for the "sins" of their ancestors believing in another god/gods (even if their teachings are similar) and raising their children to believe such because they feel that's the moral thing to do?

Edited May 18, 2023 by Leftfield

[homersapien 11,440]

17 hours ago, gr82be said:

All? There's still time so hopefully not. 

Cute.

Are you implying that any Muslims that remain Muslims until they die are going to Hell?

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, gr82be said:

The ones that don't believe that sadly can't understand it. 

What about people who are totally unaware of it - haven't even been exposed to the idea.

Tough luck?

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

No it is not. You need to think about it. 

Well, can you explain why not?

For example, if a person of faith accepts evolution as true, then how should they consider the biblical account to creation? 

There are really only two options - essentially a lie or a metaphor.

I am OK with either, but at least the metaphor "model" allows for the basic message (of creation) to be essentially true.

(BTW, telling people they simply "need to think about it" is condescending and patronizing.  It implies you know better.  If you do, then let's hear it.)

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

I struggle with that question. Jesus did say “ No one will come to Father except through me”. 
Does that mean replicating his life as best you can given your circumstances? 

Metaphorically speaking, yes. 

That's a very profound concept Salty.   Hat's off to you. 

(I am sure ICHY agrees.)

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

13 hours ago, gr82be said:

The ones that don't believe that sadly can't understand it. 

And the ones that do, apparently can't explain it. Which - by definition - means they don't understand it.

(I suggest you emulate Salty and "think about it".)

[jj3jordan 2,060]

23 minutes ago, homersapien said:

And the ones that do, apparently can't explain it. Which - by definition - means they don't understand it.

(I suggest you emulate Salty and "think about it".)

Seems pretty clear. According to the New Testament of the Bible, Jesus is the only way to salvation. That is understandable even for you. If a muslim rejects Jesus as the vessel of salvation, then they have chosen their camp. God made covenants with the Jewish nation and I am not versed enough to discern the details of their salvation in current times. That will be between the Jewish nation and God.  God has given humans the desire to seek a higher power. That is why Christian missionaries travel the world to bring the message of Jesus to all people especially those who may not be exposed to Jesus' message of grace and salvation in their remote cultures.

[Leftfield 2,654]

5 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

That is why Christian missionaries travel the world to bring the message of Jesus to all people especially those who may not be exposed to Jesus' message of grace and salvation in their remote cultures.

So again, the question is: for those the missionaries haven't reached yet, too bad?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Does that mean replicating his life as best you can given your circumstances? 

That is a good and thoughtful question.  I think it means practicing His selfless love.

What does it mean to accept Jesus?

[homersapien 11,440]

30 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Seems pretty clear. According to the New Testament of the Bible, Jesus is the only way to salvation. That is understandable even for you. If a muslim rejects Jesus as the vessel of salvation, then they have chosen their camp. God made covenants with the Jewish nation and I am not versed enough to discern the details of their salvation in current times. That will be between the Jewish nation and God.  God has given humans the desire to seek a higher power. That is why Christian missionaries travel the world to bring the message of Jesus to all people especially those who may not be exposed to Jesus' message of grace and salvation in their remote cultures.

Oh I understand it completely. 

I just like to get you guys to publicly admit it.  It's good for everyone to see how irrational and extremist you are.

So, if you aren't Christian, "you are going to hell". 

Never mind all the irrational considerations wrapped up in that - such as Christians represent only a small fraction of the world's population.  Never mind that many who are non-Christian are just as virtuous as Christians. They don't embrace MY religious beliefs so they are going to hell.  God doesn't care about them, he only cares about Christians.

I like giving people like you to reveal yourselves for the irrational religious fanatics you are.  Anything I can do to expose such dangerous thinking, I'll do it.

So thanks for playing.

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,440]

37 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

So again, the question is: for those the missionaries haven't reached yet, too bad?

Well, at least those missionaries aren't offering the heathens "conversion or death" as the only two options, as the Spanish conquistadors did.

 

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien

[Leftfield 2,654]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Well, at least those missionaries aren't offering non-Christians "conversion or death" as the only two options, as the Spanish conquistadors did.

 

Progress!

[creed 1,649]

On 5/15/2023 at 6:11 PM, creed said:

No. The cause is giving into a choice to be influenced by Satan and not fully living by faith and following Jesus' examples. The ultimate responsibility is ours....we can't blame it on Satan, that's just an excuse.

I see heaven and hell mentioned but nothing about purgatory.  What gives?

Edited May 18, 2023 by creed

[homersapien 11,440]

One aspect of this belief system I failed to mention: 

If one really believes whole categories of humans are destined for hell in God's eyes, it makes it a whole lot easier to de-humanize and persecute them.

Edited May 18, 2023 by homersapien