Biblical Marriage

[DKW 86 7,431]

On 5/14/2023 at 5:39 PM, aubaseball said:

Don’t know about the rest of you, but I think I’m seeing a pattern of a particular poster that just might have that man crush on a particular person!?!? 

It's true. Homey has a man crush on himself. He's his favorite person...lol

[DKW 86 7,431]

1) God, the Greatest Being in the Universe is not a Helicopter Parent. The idea that a wide swath of people think that the greatest being would act like a helicopter parent tells us just how sadly educated most of the world is today.

2) God gives us Free Will. We are not forced to be good. We can freely choose to be whatever we want to do, say, or act.

3) The Bible has been wildly misquoted and wildly mis-acted upon. I am a Christ follower and I am appalled at those that rationalize their evils with scripture. Osteen, Copeland, Furtich, etc make me want to puke. 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

7 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Satan is quoted in the Bible when he tempted Jesus in the New Testament. I wouldn’t call Satan an author, but the importance of this interaction between Jesus and Satan is important.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

4 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

1) God, the Greatest Being in the Universe is not a Helicopter Parent. The idea that a wide swath of people think that the greatest being would act like a helicopter parent tells us just how sadly educated most of the world is today.

2) God gives us Free Will. We are not forced to be good. We can freely choose to be whatever we want to do, say, or act.

3) The Bible has been wildly misquoted and wildly mis-acted upon. I am a Christ follower and I am appalled at those that rationalize their evils with scripture. Osteen, Copeland, Furtich, etc make me want to puke. 

And they are creepy to boot......especially Copeland. He has that demonic creepiness about him. 

[aubiefifty 16,822]

i have a question about the bible since we touched on it earlier in this thread. If the bible is gods word why is it that so many things concerning books of this or books of that WHO decided what would and what would not be included in the bible? this makes no sense to me and it is confusing. why not allow everything god said available to be read? who gets to make that choice for god? i am not looking for an argument i am curious.

[KansasTiger 3,248]

17 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

i have a question about the bible since we touched on it earlier in this thread. If the bible is gods word why is it that so many things concerning books of this or books of that WHO decided what would and what would not be included in the bible? this makes no sense to me and it is confusing. why not allow everything god said available to be read? who gets to make that choice for god? i am not looking for an argument i am curious.

The basis of most of the bibe was established...and I'm going off memory here so someone can correct me...from the council of Rome. So it was us Catholics. It was done because not everyone who writes a text about God and Jesus is divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit. So the concept behind the idea is the Holy Spirit aided the council in picking the books that should be included. The protestant Bible differs a bit from the Catholic one, as the catholic one has more books. I can't remember all of the differences, but Macabees is one.

I am not presenting this as an authoritarian argument for the Bible. Just answering your query for how it came about.

[Leftfield 2,617]

20 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

IF there is a creator who carefully designed this universe, why is there so much pain and suffering and if the creator is using it as a tool to test humanities devotion, why would anyone ever devote themselves to a creator who would do such things.  

Going further, what reason did God have to create us in the first place? An all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being needing no fullfilment, yet demands love and, ultimately, obedience?

Failing that, Angels had already been created. The fallen rebelled, of course, but most remained in God's service and are described as having free will, yet living without sin. First of all, is it really free will if mankind has to live by a moral structure not of its own design? Second, if God had already created beings with free will that lived without sin, what was the purpose of creating us with that same intention, and then allowing that to be corrupted?

And the Epicurian paradox: 

"God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?"

 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

13 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Going further, what reason did God have to create us in the first place? An all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being needing no fullfilment, yet demands love and, ultimately, obedience?

 

I would be very interested in diving into this idea a lot more. I don't think it gets asked enough. What was the point of it all? Everything has to have some kind of meaning, if you're going off creationism. Did God create life as a social experiment? Was it because God needed more beings to rule over? Was there some kind of other plan? Makes no sense. 

What does make a ton of sense is the theory of a chaotic universe where everything isn't happening according to some overarching plan. Because if you look around, that is what you see. Chaos. Random circumstances that HAPPENED due to the deck that was delt. Look at this thing! Look at it! I refuse to believe that this was intelligently created by a being that could do anything and everything it wanted. This, my friend, is a product of a random circumstantial universe and planet. 

 

Edited May 16, 2023 by AuCivilEng1

[aubiefifty 16,822]

3 hours ago, wdefromtx said:

And they are creepy to boot......especially Copeland. He has that demonic creepiness about him. 

remember ernest angsly ? he gave me the creeps real bad. i might have his last name wrong.

[wdefromtx 3,159]

18 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

remember ernest angsly ? he gave me the creeps real bad. i might have his last name wrong.

Had to look him up......LOL 

 

But, yeah I can see why you would think that. 

[wdefromtx 3,159]

20 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

remember ernest angsly ? he gave me the creeps real bad. i might have his last name wrong.

Also, I did for s**ts and grins go to Copeland's church once with a friend to check it out. They had the works going, people being healed and fainting. Then he tooks his caddy to his private jet. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 hour ago, Leftfield said:

Going further, what reason did God have to create us in the first place? An all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful, perfect being needing no fullfilment, yet demands love and, ultimately, obedience?

Failing that, Angels had already been created. The fallen rebelled, of course, but most remained in God's service and are described as having free will, yet living without sin. First of all, is it really free will if mankind has to live by a moral structure not of its own design? Second, if God had already created beings with free will that lived without sin, what was the purpose of creating us with that same intention, and then allowing that to be corrupted?

And the Epicurian paradox: 

"God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?"

 

You keep mentioning free will. We have free will. I don't know the ins and outs of angel life. If they have free will and choose to be sinless the that's awesome. I believe angels exist but do not reside on earth as humans. If they reside in heaven then it is a little different ball game than we are playing down here. Not a good comparison. There are no humans living on earth who do not have free will and are living sinless. All have sinned and come short of God. He wants us to choose Him but is not a puppet master. You are trying to understand the mind of God and discern His reasons for doing what He does. Your mind is not on the same level as His. When this occurs you are unable to comprehend the power and ability of God to do what He does. Such as create a universe. Why did He do it? He wanted to, and does not owe you an explanation. To imply a demand of God to satisfy your lack of understanding is not a realistic scenario.  You can accept God/Jesus, or reject Him. It seems you have made your choice. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 hour ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

I would be very interested in diving into this idea a lot more. I don't think it gets asked enough. What was the point of it all? Everything has to have some kind of meaning, if you're going off creationism. Did God create life as a social experiment? Was it because God needed more beings to rule over? Was there some kind of other plan? Makes no sense. 

What does make a ton of sense is the theory of a chaotic universe where everything isn't happening according to some overarching plan. Because if you look around, that is what you see. Chaos. Random circumstances that HAPPENED due to the deck that was delt. Look at this thing! Look at it! I refuse to believe that this was intelligently created by a being that could do anything and everything it wanted. This, my friend, is a product of a random circumstantial universe and planet. 

 

What is that thing? Slightly resembles my high school trig teacher. There is a lot of chaos out there for sure. That's what happens in science. Things move from order to chaos, not the other way. That plus the 50,000 missing links and zero transitional life forms are what make evolution way less believable than creation.  It actually takes more faith to believe evolution than creation. Throw in the big bang where nobody can say what was there before the bang, and who put it there and you have an unexplainable unprovable theory of universal cosmos existence. The size is unclear but with some tempura and hot oil could taste like chicken , or maybe catfish, worst case scenario squid.

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

That plus the 50,000 missing links and zero transitional life forms are what make evolution way less believable than creation.

Really? Way less believable? To believe in creationism is to suspend the disbelief of every single piece of physics and reality that humanity has ever discovered. There is zero proof of creationism, outside of religious texts that were written by humans. Were those humans helped by God/the Holy Spirit? Nobody knows, because its unprovable. There is a reason that it is called "having a faith". Because that is all that someone needs or can bring to the table, when it comes to a divine creator. I wouldn't call anything that can be studied with physical evidence "way less believable" than creationism. Creationists speak about the big band as if they have some form of evidence that brings more to the table than the big bang. A book written a few thousand years ago is NOT evidence. It may be inspiring, or believable or unbelievable, but it isn't evidence. If your only argument for creationism is that, "it couldn't just happen by chance" or "the other theories don't make sense to me" or "the other things aren't conclusive" then you have nothing. 

[Leftfield 2,617]

51 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Why did He do it? He wanted to, and does not owe you an explanation. 

Are you saying I shouldn't bother questioning it? I should accept that it was done and be happy without wondering why?

56 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

You can accept God/Jesus, or reject Him. It seems you have made your choice. 

I reject your interpretation of who God is. You may be content with not questioning, but I am not, so I will continue to look for my own answers.

 

52 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

 It actually takes more faith to believe evolution than creation.

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Is there some reason God couldn't have created the universe through the Big Bang, and humans through evolution?

 

[Mims44 1,879]

59 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

What is that thing? Slightly resembles my high school trig teacher. There is a lot of chaos out there for sure. That's what happens in science. Things move from order to chaos, not the other way. That plus the 50,000 missing links and zero transitional life forms are what make evolution way less believable than creation.  It actually takes more faith to believe evolution than creation. Throw in the big bang where nobody can say what was there before the bang, and who put it there and you have an unexplainable unprovable theory of universal cosmos existence. The size is unclear but with some tempura and hot oil could taste like chicken , or maybe catfish, worst case scenario squid.

47 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

That plus the 50,000 missing links and zero transitional life forms are what make evolution way less believable than creation.

Really? Way less believable? To believe in creationism is to suspend the disbelief of every single piece of physics and reality that humanity has ever discovered. There is zero proof of creationism, outside of religious texts that were written by humans. Were those humans helped by God/the Holy Spirit? Nobody knows, because its unprovable. There is a reason that it is called "having a faith". Because that is all that someone needs or can bring to the table, when it comes to a divine creator. I wouldn't call anything that can be studied with physical evidence "way less believable" than creationism. Creationists speak about the big band as if they have some form of evidence that brings more to the table than the big bang. A book written a few thousand years ago is NOT evidence. It may be inspiring, or believable or unbelievable, but it isn't evidence. If your only argument for creationism is that, "it couldn't just happen by chance" or "the other theories don't make sense to me" or "the other things aren't conclusive" then you have nothing. 

4 minutes ago, Leftfield said:

Are you saying I shouldn't bother questioning it? I should accept that it was done and be happy without wondering why?

I reject your interpretation of who God is. You may be content with not questioning, but I am not, so I will continue to look for my own answers.

 

Why do they have to be mutually exclusive? Is there some reason God couldn't have created the universe through the Big Bang, and humans through evolution?

 

It's funny the big bang being brought up 3x in a row as it's the story that is in closest line with current science.

 

Bible: There was nothing and then God spoke and .... Boom. energy, matter, light. Everything came into existence.

BB theory: There was nothing and then suddenly ... Bang. energy, matter, light. Everything came into existence.

 

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

11 minutes ago, Mims44 said:

It's funny the big bang being brought up 3x in a row as it's the story that is in closest line with current science.

 

Bible: There was nothing and then God spoke and .... Boom. energy, matter, light. Everything came into existence.

BB theory: There was nothing and then suddenly ... Bang. energy, matter, light. Everything came into existence.

 

If the bible stopped there, it would more impressive, as it relates to formation of the universe.  It's everything after that causes issues for it. 

We have derailed this thread. I would be completely willing to have more conversations about this stuff in a general Creationism/Evolution thread though. Anyone else have any interest in debating this more?

Edited May 16, 2023 by AuCivilEng1

[Mims44 1,879]

2 minutes ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

If the bible stopped there, it would more impressive, as it relates to formation of the universe.  It's everything after that causes issues for it. 

We have derailed this thread. I would be completely willing to have more conversations about this stuff in a general Creationism/Evolution thread though. Anyone else have any interest in debating this more?

No joke, I had to scroll up to remember what the original topic was  

[AuCivilEng1 11,012]

Poof! It has been done. Created in less than 6 days  Anyone who wants to carry on this conversation, the thread is in the Smack Talk area. 

[homersapien 11,393]

22 hours ago, JMWATS said:

With that I guess we are all carbon based life forms competing for food, shelter, and breeding rights.

 

Overly simplistic but essentially accurate.

 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 hours ago, Leftfield said:

God, he says, either wishes to take away evils, and is unable; or He is able, and is unwilling; or He is neither willing nor able, or He is both willing and able. If He is willing and is unable, He is feeble, which is not in accordance with the character of God; if He is able and unwilling, He is envious, which is equally at variance with God; if He is neither willing nor able, He is both envious and feeble, and therefore not God; if He is both willing and able, which alone is suitable to God, from what source then are evils? Or why does He not remove them?"

WE are the source of misery in this world.  WE have freewill.  We can follow God.  We can follow Satan.  We make the choices.  If we did not have choices, we would be little more than animals, pets.

2 hours ago, AuCivilEng1 said:

What was the point of it all

To make the world a better place for all, particularly those around us, our motivation being love.

 

At some point, I believe you have to separate the religion of Christianity from Jesus,,, unfortunately.  Christianity has always had it's own agenda.  It's leaders, their own agendas.  The message, the commandments of Jesus are simple.  There is really no theology at all.  If we all acted in accordance, there would be no crime, no poverty, no war.  Following Jesus in not about all of the tenets of Christianity, not about which denomination/church is more correct.  Following Jesus is simply about love and, how you treat others. 

We are in this world.  Some live a life of day-to-day survival.  Some live a life attaining prosperity.  A few live a life of unimaginable wealth.  Few live to follow and serve Jesus.  Sadly, it does not end well for humanity (I skipped ahead and read the end of the book).  Thankfully, Jesus loves us all very much.  His mercy and forgiveness are boundless.  He loves our basic goodness.  He loves our basic flaws.  IMHO, Jesus' love for us is only diminished when we TOTALLY refuse to accept his commandment of love.

Let us all pray for God's will, not our own.  Let us pray for a better heart, a heart that loves as Jesus loves, not for more stuff.

God has given us all we need to be happy and prosper.  He continues to give us all we need.  ALL of our gifts, all of our talents, all of our resources are from God.  WE choose how those things are shared.

How many of us believe in Jesus?  How many of us believe in the basic principle of Jesus' love?  Which one is most important?

 

[homersapien 11,393]

22 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Exactly. Satan is the cause of these people of which you speak using the Bible to justify inhumanities. Not caused by the Bible. Caused by satan. 

That sounds like the bible is one of Satan's tools.

 

[Leftfield 2,617]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That sounds like the bible is one of Satan's tools.

 

Accurate

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, homersapien said:

That sounds like the bible is one of Satan's tools.

 

It certainly has, and is being used as one.

Without the love of Jesus, evil has no restraints.

[homersapien 11,393]

22 hours ago, JMWATS said:

I have had a loved one tied up and brutally tortured and the bludgeoned to death by an escaped felon.  Not the same as a child eaten by an alligator.  I still have my questions but I have faith that in time those questions will be answered. I choose to believe.  Understand why someone who has experienced such loss may choose not to believe.      

No doubt that's a great coping mechanism for those capable of it.

Similarly, many people believe in an afterlife because they simply cannot accept the finality of death. 

It's just not available to those of us who lack the "God gene".