A thorough comparison of the Trump classified documents case & the Biden classified documents case.

[AU9377 4,931]

Politicians often like to use the phrase "he did the same thing" or "he did it too" in an effort to overlook the critical differences that are in the details of what actually occurred.  Those details are often very important when deciding who to charge with a crime.  In classified documents cases, intent and willfulness are requirements spelled out in the code's elements of a crime.  DOJ prosecutors also consider the actions of the person in possession of the document(s).  Did they willfully return the documents?  Did they cooperate?  Did they attempt to further impede the investigation or did they cooperate fully?  All of those factors are considered when making charging decisions.  This is a really good explanation, made in a very reader friendly format.

 

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2023/how-do-donald-trump-and-joe-bidens-classified-documents-cases-compare/

[LPTiger 5,159]

To me, the most troubling aspect of this is if Trump in fact asked his lawyer to mislead justice about the documents.   If that occurred, he should be punished IMO. 

[creed 1,635]

I've stated this a number of times related to this topic. Trump should be convicted to the full extent of the law due the seriousness of his actions. Biden should be just walked off the job and releaved of his duties.

[auburnatl1 4,914]

49 minutes ago, creed said:

I've stated this a number of times related to this topic. Trump should be convicted to the full extent of the law due the seriousness of his actions. Biden should be just walked off the job and releaved of his duties.

Huh?  I think I know what you mean but it would cause next level divisiveness.  In a perfect world, a magical angel would offer to stop all current investigations and litigation if they both agreed never to run for public office again.

[AU9377 4,931]

17 hours ago, auburnatl1 said:

Huh?  I think I know what you mean but it would cause next level divisiveness.  In a perfect world, a magical angel would offer to stop all current investigations and litigation if they both agreed never to run for public office again.

I don't disagree, but the thing that makes it all so ridiculous is that all Trump had to do was return the documents and assist the Archives in making certain they had everything they asked for.  They literally did all they could do for a year and a half trying to avoid having to file charges.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

I may be wrong but I don't think Trump had classified lying out in the open like Biden. Biden had tem all over the floor by his car in the garage where anyone there could seem them. And have we forgotten Hillary's case?

[AU9377 4,931]

2 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

I may be wrong but I don't think Trump had classified lying out in the open like Biden. Biden had tem all over the floor by his car in the garage where anyone there could seem them. And have we forgotten Hillary's case?

If the two cases were anything alike, I would be the first to say that the Trump indictment was ridiculous.  I have said since the day it was announced that the first indictment in New York should have never been charged.  The crime he is charged with in that indictment, in my opinion, is a Federal crime and if it was to be charged should have been charged in Federal court or not at all.  I believe that the DOJ did the right thing when they decided not to charge in that situation. 

I believe that the most serious of the current indictments is the election interference indictment.  Had he cooperated with and assisted in making sure all classified material in his possession was returned, he would have never been charged.  Had he done that, there would have been no special counsel looking at his case or Biden's.    The reason a special counsel was appointed to review Biden's case was guard against the appearance of any bias in handling of the two situations.  Even so, when the special counsel in the Biden case announces no charges will be filed, there will be people screaming that he received some sort of preferential treatment.  The problem is that the facts are drastically different between the two cases and the key is cooperation on the part of the subjects of the investigations.

It is my understanding that the documents found in Biden's possession were located in either his office at the Penn Biden Center or at his home (I believe in a file cabinet in the garage).  From what we know, the number is around 10 to 12 documents total.  Had Biden not alerted the Archives to their existence, there would have never been a search for documents.  I don't always trust info found in internet memes etc, but this looks accurate.  If it isn't, I will stand corrected.

[Didba 5,256]

36 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

If the two cases were anything alike, I would be the first to say that the Trump indictment was ridiculous.  I have said since the day it was announced that the first indictment in New York should have never been charged.  The crime he is charged with in that indictment, in my opinion, is a Federal crime and if it was to be charged should have been charged in Federal court or not at all.  I believe that the DOJ did the right thing when they decided not to charge in that situation. 

I believe that the most serious of the current indictments is the election interference indictment.  Had he cooperated with and assisted in making sure all classified material in his possession was returned, he would have never been charged.  Had he done that, there would have been no special counsel looking at his case or Biden's.    The reason a special counsel was appointed to review Biden's case was guard against the appearance of any bias in handling of the two situations.  Even so, when the special counsel in the Biden case announces no charges will be filed, there will be people screaming that he received some sort of preferential treatment.  The problem is that the facts are drastically different between the two cases and the key is cooperation on the part of the subjects of the investigations.

It is my understanding that the documents found in Biden's possession were located in either his office at the Penn Biden Center or at his home (I believe in a file cabinet in the garage).  From what we know, the number is around 10 to 12 documents total.  Had Biden not alerted the Archives to their existence, there would have never been a search for documents.  I don't always trust info found in internet memes etc, but this looks accurate.  If it isn't, I will stand corrected.

Thanks for surmising this 

[homersapien 11,373]

3 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

I may be wrong but I don't think Trump had classified lying out in the open like Biden. Biden had tem all over the floor by his car in the garage where anyone there could seem them. And have we forgotten Hillary's case?

Yep, You're wrong.

And as far as we know, the only documents that were actually seen by others was Trump's.

https://thehill.com/regulation/court-battles/4080498-former-trump-press-secretary-says-he-showed-classified-documents-to-people-on-mar-a-lago-dining-patio/

[homersapien 11,373]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

Thanks for surmising this 

AU9377 is definitely a credit to the forum.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Yep, You're wrong.

And as far as we know, the only documents that were actually seen by others was Trump's.

 

Then I guess you and others choose to ignore the pictures of classified documents lying on the floor in Biden's garage by his Corvette where anyone could see them. You can't say no one saw them. Someone took the picture.

Edited August 14, 2023 by Son of A Tiger

[Didba 5,256]

39 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Then I guess you and others choose to ignore the pictures of classified documents lying on the floor in Biden's garage by his Corvette where anyone could see them. You can't say no one saw them. Someone took the picture.

Which picture are you talking about? I cannot find a picture of documents lying on the floor of his garage.

All I can find is a picture of the corvette and at the very back of the garage there is a box stacked on some junk. You can’t even tell what the box is.

Could you pull the picture you are talking about?

Edited August 14, 2023 by Didba

[Son of A Tiger 561]

4 hours ago, Didba said:

Which picture are you talking about? I cannot find a picture of documents lying on the floor of his garage.

All I can find is a picture of the corvette and at the very back of the garage there is a box stacked on some junk. You can’t even tell what the box is.

Could you pull the picture you are talking about?

The picture was in several media sites several weeks ago. I don't have it handy. But as I recall a search showed there were classified documents in the garage.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Son of A Tiger

[Didba 5,256]

Just now, Son of A Tiger said:

The picture was in several media sites several weeks ago. I don't have it handy.

You can't google it and find it? I tried but nothing comes up that reflects what you are describing.

[Son of A Tiger 561]

2 minutes ago, Didba said:

You can't google it and find it? I tried but nothing comes up that reflects what you are describing.

See my edited post. Maybe I will take time to search tomorrow. Maybe someone else will remember.

Edited August 15, 2023 by Son of A Tiger

[Didba 5,256]

3 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

See my edited post. Maybe I will take time to search tomorrow. Maybe someone else will remember.

Is it this picture?

Edited August 15, 2023 by Didba

[LPTiger 5,159]

Why are we not asking the question, what is it about the US that leads heads of state to think they can take such documents with them?   Trump, Hill, Joe, Barack.   They all did it.   Why isn't it clear, once you leave office you take NO classified documents.    AND why don't we have a gatekeeper?   Mr. President, Madam Secretary of State, I need to review these boxes and I need to see your servers just to double check you.

[LPTiger 5,159]

1 minute ago, Didba said:

Is it this picture?

This begs the question, who in then hell lets their garage become this disorganized.   Man do you not have any respect?

[Didba 5,256]

Just now, LPTiger said:

This begs the question, who in then hell lets their garage become this disorganized.   Man do you not have any respect?

LOL

[Son of A Tiger 561]

12 minutes ago, Didba said:

Is it this picture?

 

[Son of A Tiger 561]

Close but not the one I saw with documents on the floor by the car. It doesn't matter a search found classified documents. It doesn't matter if they were on the floor or in those boxes. And as I recall Biden admitted they were there.

[LPTiger 5,159]

8 minutes ago, Didba said:

LOL

Literally, if you are a collector, your garage does not look like this.  I think I see a freaking lamp shade for heaven's sake.  I own several collector cars and you can eat off my garage floor.   There are no boxes of documents or any other combustibles nearby.

[Didba 5,256]

8 minutes ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Close but not the one I saw with documents on the floor by the car. It doesn't matter a search found classified documents. It doesn't matter if they were on the floor or in those boxes. And as I recall Biden admitted they were there.

I think It does matter if they were on the floor or in those boxes. Or you wouldn't have made that specific point earlier. Which is why I asked for the pictures of them on the floor.

[ShocksMyBrain 9,365]

57 minutes ago, Didba said:

I think It does matter if they were on the floor or in those boxes. Or you wouldn't have made that specific point earlier. Which is why I asked for the pictures of them on the floor.

Likely fallen victim to a shopped photo that circulated on social media.

[homersapien 11,373]

17 hours ago, Son of A Tiger said:

Then I guess you and others choose to ignore the pictures of classified documents lying on the floor in Biden's garage by his Corvette where anyone could see them. You can't say no one saw them. Someone took the picture.

What picture?