The problem with military recruitment

[LPTiger 5,167]

I saw every branch of the US Armed forces, except Marines and Space Force, will not hit their recruitment goals form the 2nd straight year.    Why?   I can think of some reasons -- if you repeatedly hear the country is inherently racist and thus bad, why would you sign up to defend it (particularly if you are a minority); if you witness the botched withdrawal in Afghanistan, is that something you want to be a part of; I suspect the wokeness of the military is turning off the types of personalities that are typically drawn to the armed services at a more rapid pace than it is encouraging the woke among us to grab a gun and a uniform; with so many vacancies in the job market right now, a decent paying job where you don't risk your life is likely fairly attractive; maybe there is a bleed over impact from all the negativity directed to police officers.  I suspect each of these are contributing factors.    Poor VA healthcare might be an issue?    Whatever it is, the UK is experiencing similar difficulties.    We need to get it figured out.   The Pentagon's answer of the day today is to allow applicants to use calculators while taking the entrance exam....

[Didba 5,256]

I’ve always read that there is an inverse relationship between the country’s employment rate and military recruitment numbers. 

I’d have to bet it’s a multitude of factors causing low recruitment numbers. 

Edited August 21, 2023 by Didba

[arein0 969]

16 minutes ago, Didba said:

I’ve always read that there is an inverse relationship between the countries employment rate and military recruitment numbers. 

This is the real reason

[icanthearyou 4,463]

The way to recruit more, and/or better, employees is,,, higher pay, better benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/04/19/524563155/when-active-duty-service-members-struggle-to-feed-their-families

 

[autigeremt 6,646]

There's a combination of things effecting military recruitment in 2023. Pay is one, the other is a lack of desire to serve the nation. There's also a lot of distrust going around (for good reason). Our government isn't in a good place and a lot of young people could care less about the country for a multitude of reasons. 

[Didba 5,256]

20 minutes ago, autigeremt said:

There's a combination of things effecting military recruitment in 2023. Pay is one, the other is a lack of desire to serve the nation. There's also a lot of distrust going around (for good reason). Our government isn't in a good place and a lot of young people could care less about the country for a multitude of reasons. 

Also, all the rape certainly has had an impact. Who wants to be associated with that?

Edited August 21, 2023 by Didba

[LPTiger 5,167]

3 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

The way to recruit more, and/or better, employees is,,, higher pay, better benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/04/19/524563155/when-active-duty-service-members-struggle-to-feed-their-families

 

Highly paid employees don't do well in a foxhole whereas highly motivated ones do.

[LPTiger 5,167]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

There's a combination of things effecting military recruitment in 2023. Pay is one, the other is a lack of desire to serve the nation. There's also a lot of distrust going around (for good reason). Our government isn't in a good place and a lot of young people could care less about the country for a multitude of reasons. 

Desire to serve the nation 100%.   If the kids are being taught that this is an inherently unfair country where only the white privileged male has a shot at success, who would want to serve that?    Actions meet consequences. 

[AU9377 4,975]

4 hours ago, LPTiger said:

I saw every branch of the US Armed forces, except Marines and Space Force, will not hit their recruitment goals form the 2nd straight year.    Why?   I can think of some reasons -- if you repeatedly hear the country is inherently racist and thus bad, why would you sign up to defend it (particularly if you are a minority); if you witness the botched withdrawal in Afghanistan, is that something you want to be a part of; I suspect the wokeness of the military is turning off the types of personalities that are typically drawn to the armed services at a more rapid pace than it is encouraging the woke among us to grab a gun and a uniform; with so many vacancies in the job market right now, a decent paying job where you don't risk your life is likely fairly attractive; maybe there is a bleed over impact from all the negativity directed to police officers.  I suspect each of these are contributing factors.    Poor VA healthcare might be an issue?    Whatever it is, the UK is experiencing similar difficulties.    We need to get it figured out.   The Pentagon's answer of the day today is to allow applicants to use calculators while taking the entrance exam....

We should allow non violent offenders the opportunity to enlist and have their records expunged.  This was common practice years ago and it changed a lot of lives for the better.  I have no doubt that they are, on average, as academically capable as some of the recruits that walk into a recruitment office off the street.  They don't have to fly million dollar jets to contribute and God knows we have enough people in prisons across the country.

 

I don't think the VA has anything to do with it.  I saw a story a few days ago where someone was complaining that they had a two week wait time to see a doctor at the VA.  I was shocked that was even news.  Try getting an appointment anywhere and that will be the wait or more, unless it is an emergency situation.  If someone was injured in combat, disabled due to their service, retired military, or in some other way qualifies, I want them to receive the care they deserve.  However, everyone is not entitled to VA benefits simply due to the fact that they were active duty at some point in their past.

Edited August 21, 2023 by AU9377

[PUB78 1,358]

4 hours ago, LPTiger said:

I saw every branch of the US Armed forces, except Marines and Space Force, will not hit their recruitment goals form the 2nd straight year.    Why?   I can think of some reasons -- if you repeatedly hear the country is inherently racist and thus bad, why would you sign up to defend it (particularly if you are a minority); if you witness the botched withdrawal in Afghanistan, is that something you want to be a part of; I suspect the wokeness of the military is turning off the types of personalities that are typically drawn to the armed services at a more rapid pace than it is encouraging the woke among us to grab a gun and a uniform; with so many vacancies in the job market right now, a decent paying job where you don't risk your life is likely fairly attractive; maybe there is a bleed over impact from all the negativity directed to police officers.  I suspect each of these are contributing factors.    Poor VA healthcare might be an issue?    Whatever it is, the UK is experiencing similar difficulties.    We need to get it figured out.   The Pentagon's answer of the day today is to allow applicants to use calculators while taking the entrance exam....

I appreciate your service to our country.

[LPTiger 5,167]

40 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

We should allow non violent offenders the opportunity to enlist and have their records expunged.  This was common practice years ago and it changed a lot of lives for the better.  I have no doubt that they are, on average, as academically capable as some of the recruits that walk into a recruitment office off the street.  They don't have to fly million dollar jets to contribute and God knows we have enough people in prisons across the country.

 

I don't think the VA has anything to do with it.  I saw a story a few days ago where someone was complaining that they had a two week wait time to see a doctor at the VA.  I was shocked that was even news.  Try getting an appointment anywhere and that will be the wait or more, unless it is an emergency situation.  If someone was injured in combat, disabled due to their service, retired military, or in some other way qualifies, I want them to receive the care they deserve.  However, everyone is not entitled to VA benefits simply due to the fact that they were active duty at some point in their past.

Love the idea of letting people with criminal records obtain a shot at redemption!!!  Our church has an active prison ministry where we go to every single men's prison in Alabama every Sunday and to several of the women's prison.   There are so many of them who made mistakes, paid the price and are looking for a way to better themselves.    I have a paratrooper friend who registered over 100 jumps in Vietnam.   His knees are totally shot.   What the VA has put him through has been awful.    I agree a two week wait isn't a big deal.

[autigeremt 6,646]

4 hours ago, Didba said:

Also, all the rape certainly has had an impact. Who wants to be associated with that?

Kind of like a lot of humanity, right? I get what are saying but the entire landscape is filled with murder, sex trafficking, drug dealers, human trafficking, etc. It’s not a good thing by any standard, but that’s not centric to the overall problem in my opinion. 

[Mikey 16,630]

I volunteered, did my four year hitch and got out. I wouldn't take anything for my time in the Air Force, it was a great experience. However, reading/hearing about how things are today I would not enlist again. Military service is not the same thing it has been in decades past.

[Didba 5,256]

4 hours ago, autigeremt said:

Kind of like a lot of humanity, right? I get what are saying but the entire landscape is filled with murder, sex trafficking, drug dealers, human trafficking, etc. It’s not a good thing by any standard, but that’s not centric to the overall problem in my opinion. 

Well fair point, unfortunately its proven to occur at a much higher rate in the military but this is splitting hairs. We both agreed earlier a whole host of factors plays in, probably different for every person.

[Didba 5,256]

2 hours ago, Mikey said:

I volunteered, did my four year hitch and got out. I wouldn't take anything for my time in the Air Force, it was a great experience. However, reading/hearing about how things are today I would not enlist again. Military service is not the same thing it has been in decades past.

What year-range did you serve? My wife's family is full of military men so I am always curious to hear about when people were in.

[DKW 86 7,428]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:32 PM, icanthearyou said:

The way to recruit more, and/or better, employees is,,, higher pay, better benefits.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/04/19/524563155/when-active-duty-service-members-struggle-to-feed-their-families

As we have learned from years of Fox News, and Righty craziness, we all need to make less money so the people that own or run corporations need to make even more money. 

We need to work harder and do with less. They need their third home in Aspen and Monterey. But it absolutely cannot be pay and benefits to workers that draws workers into jobs. That simply cannot be. We all know that the laws of supply and demand do not work when it comes to labor....Rinse and Repeat for Hannity, Rush, half of Fox News, every Republican Candidate out there and even some Dems these days.

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by DKW 86

[DKW 86 7,428]

6 hours ago, Mikey said:

I volunteered, did my four year hitch and got out. I wouldn't take anything for my time in the Air Force, it was a great experience. However, reading/hearing about how things are today I would not enlist again. Military service is not the same thing it has been in decades past.

But what if you had gone into the military????

Edited August 22, 2023 by DKW 86

[Mikey 16,630]

3 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

But what if you had gone into the military????

We didn't have wifi in those days. After basic training in San Antonio and tech school in Amarillo I had to suffer through 3 & 1/2 years at Tyndall Air Force Base in Panama City, Florida. It was rough on a single guy who was age 17 when he got there, but somebody had to do it.

[LPTiger 5,167]

24 minutes ago, Mikey said:

We didn't have wifi in those days. After basic training in San Antonio and tech school in Amarillo I had to suffer through 3 & 1/2 years at Tyndall Air Force Base in Panama City, Florida. It was rough on a single guy who was age 17 when he got there, but somebody had to do it.

Mikey, thanks for your service!!!   Glad you survived the many inherent dangers of TAFB!!!!  I can't tell you how many times I've been fishing in the gulf and got buzzed by fighters out of Tyndall....   You really don't hear them coming until they are on top of you and then the noise is unbelievable.   I flew out of Jack Edwards this past Friday and there were 4 T-6's sitting g on the tarmac.   Inside the FBO were 8 patriots in flight suits and each of them looked like characters out of top gun.  One had a cheesy mustache and looked just like Goose.   When I thanked them for their service man they lit up.   Thank goodness for everyone willing to put on the uniform!!! 

[Mikey 16,630]

1 minute ago, LPTiger said:

Mikey, thanks for your service!!!

I appreciate the thought. I also wish to thank the United States Air Force. I went in as a 17 year-old high school dropout with but a dim future. The Air Force gave me a place to grow up. Four years later I mustered out as a young man with a GED, a letter of acceptance to college in hand and a plan for the future. I also had a trade, aircraft mechanic. I never used that after my military time but I always felt like I had it in my back pocket.

I gave the Air Force an honest day's work for a day's pay for four years and in return the Air Force taught me a lot and prepared me for the rest of my life. I owe the Air Force and the United States tax payers who support our military more thanks than they owe me.

[CoffeeTiger 5,133]

People complaining about 'wokeness' are just repeating Republican/Fox News talking points.  The actual military leaders who have to deal with the fallout and problems from lower recruitment #'s don't seem to agree that politicization is an issue, and seem to identify the lack of readiness of the recruitable population as the biggest issues. Low fitness and physical health, low education, and high drug use seem to make the upcoming younger generations less fit for service. I think it's only 23% of eligible recruitable US citizens could actually qualify for entry into the military. 

 

Add to that economic factors. Unemployment is very low in the US and general military service thrives more when young men see no other options in life or view military service as the best jumping off point for their future careers. young people today growing up in a decade of our military being forced to die and fight in useless wars in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan may also have an impact on their willingness to join. 

 

 

 

 

[Mikey 16,630]

21 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

People complaining about 'wokeness' are just repeating Republican/Fox News talking points.  The actual military leaders who have to deal with the fallout and problems from lower recruitment #'s don't seem to agree that politicization is an issue, and seem to identify the lack of readiness of the recruitable population as the biggest issues. Low fitness and physical health, low education, and high drug use seem to make the upcoming younger generations less fit for service. I think it's only 23% of eligible recruitable US citizens could actually qualify for entry into the military. 

 

Add to that economic factors. Unemployment is very low in the US and general military service thrives more when young men see no other options in life or view military service as the best jumping off point for their future careers. young people today growing up in a decade of our military being forced to die and fight in useless wars in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan may also have an impact on their willingness to join. 

 

 

 

 

What do you expect them to say in public? Wokeness is the problem? They'd be fired in short order.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Mikey

[autigeremt 6,646]

23 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

People complaining about 'wokeness' are just repeating Republican/Fox News talking points.  The actual military leaders who have to deal with the fallout and problems from lower recruitment #'s don't seem to agree that politicization is an issue, and seem to identify the lack of readiness of the recruitable population as the biggest issues. Low fitness and physical health, low education, and high drug use seem to make the upcoming younger generations less fit for service. I think it's only 23% of eligible recruitable US citizens could actually qualify for entry into the military. 

 

Add to that economic factors. Unemployment is very low in the US and general military service thrives more when young men see no other options in life or view military service as the best jumping off point for their future careers. young people today growing up in a decade of our military being forced to die and fight in useless wars in the deserts of Iraq and Afghanistan may also have an impact on their willingness to join. 

 

 

 

 

There’s a multitude of reasons for the lower numbers but it’s not in the best interest of the military officer to single out political climate as a factor. They have enough to deal with. Lol 

[autigeremt 6,646]

On 8/22/2023 at 1:45 AM, Didba said:

What year-range did you serve? My wife's family is full of military men so I am always curious to hear about when people were in.

US Army Active Duty 91-95 for myself. Then again 08-14 (USCG Reserve) 

[Gowebb11 9,334]

On 8/21/2023 at 2:38 PM, LPTiger said:

I saw every branch of the US Armed forces, except Marines and Space Force, will not hit their recruitment goals form the 2nd straight year.    Why?   I can think of some reasons -- if you repeatedly hear the country is inherently racist and thus bad, why would you sign up to defend it (particularly if you are a minority); if you witness the botched withdrawal in Afghanistan, is that something you want to be a part of; I suspect the wokeness of the military is turning off the types of personalities that are typically drawn to the armed services at a more rapid pace than it is encouraging the woke among us to grab a gun and a uniform; with so many vacancies in the job market right now, a decent paying job where you don't risk your life is likely fairly attractive; maybe there is a bleed over impact from all the negativity directed to police officers.  I suspect each of these are contributing factors.    Poor VA healthcare might be an issue?    Whatever it is, the UK is experiencing similar difficulties.    We need to get it figured out.   The Pentagon's answer of the day today is to allow applicants to use calculators while taking the entrance exam....

There has certainly been a shift in the culture of the military and a lot of the things you mentioned are factors for sure. But it also doesn’t help to have protracted 20 year conflicts like we’ve done in the Middle East. 20 years is a long time for soldier candidates and their parents to see and hear about the carnage of death, disability, shoddy VA care afterwards, and veteran suicide. All that said, the pool is also severely limited by high rates of obesity and unhealthy young folks.