America doesn’t need more God. It needs more atheists.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

7 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Yes.

Jesus always said that belief in the bible is the key to salvation.  He was particularly emphatic about the Old Testament.  Jesus was Jewish you know.

 

[AURex 2,031]

23 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Jesus always said that belief in the bible is the key to salvation.  He was particularly emphatic about the Old Testament.  Jesus was Jewish you know.

 

Where did he say that? Cite please.

 

[AURex 2,031]

I find this entire thread really interesting. My mother was raised Methodist and dragged me and my younger brother off to church, including Sunday School. Even as a kid, I thought it was all just old stories, akin to Aesop fables.

My dad was a non-believer, although he never criticized religion and always supported my mother's desire to indoctrinate us in orthodox Protestant religion. But he worked for NASA. He was a scientist. And like most scientists, he had zero belief in superman in the sky or miracles.

Funny thing -- the head of the Dept of Philosophy at Auburn during my years there was Dr. Delos McKown. He was a former Baptist minister who had seen the light and become an athiest. He was a registered Humanist Minister, so he could conduct marriages and funerals.

My GF and I decided to get married. He presided. He had us write our own vows. He specifically said that we could not mention Jesus, any god, or reference any Biblical text. Which was fine with us, of course.

By now, my mother had converted to Mormonism. My wife-to-be parents were solid Midwestern Methodist stock. Nobody even noticed that our vows were totally non-religious.

Fact is, if you guide children to learn, to seek truth, to evaluate evidence, they will find their own way. Which is why churches are losing attendees across the country, which is why the percentage of Americans who attend church or avow faith in a particular denomination, who are increasingly atheist or agnostic, is steadily increasing.

 

[jj3jordan 2,060]

2 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Jesus always said that belief in the bible is the key to salvation.  He was particularly emphatic about the Old Testament.  Jesus was Jewish you know.

 

Everybody knows Jesus was Jewish. He obviously never said what you have attributed to Him. Rex took the bait..feel bad for him.  You just keep on ridiculing the Bible. I hope that works out for you later on.

[gr82be 14,466]

9 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Mass to energy? Isn't that going the wrong direction?

Yes God can create anything. Scientists do not want God to be the answer though. It is obvious they want an explanation in science devoid of interaction by God.  That is crystal clear.

There are a lot of ifs and could if you postulate endless compression and expansion of universes. It makes no sense and has no meaning. Believers in God (not A God; there have been thousands of those) have our answer to the meaning of life. Without God, life is meaningless.

Without God, life isn't at all. 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Everybody knows Jesus was Jewish. He obviously never said what you have attributed to Him. Rex took the bait..feel bad for him.  You just keep on ridiculing the Bible. I hope that works out for you later on.

I do not "ridicule the bible".

As I have said before, the bible is good at revealing the spirit of Jesus.

However, the bible is not God.  Jesus is the word.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

8 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

Everybody knows Jesus was Jewish

Born to a Jewish mother.  God is not a member of a religion.  Religions are a product of humans.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

18 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Is proving it to be a myth important?

Not to me.  It is not the basis of my faith.  I'm not even sure the word myth is appropriate.

For those who have made the bible God, for those who have made the bible the basis of faith,,,

[I_M4_AU 7,989]

11 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

Jesus always said that belief in the bible is the key to salvation.  He was particularly emphatic about the Old Testament.  Jesus was Jewish you know.

 

Considering that the New Testament was not written until after His crusifiction, I would imagine Jesus was emphatic about the Bible.  The Bible was not known as the *Old Testament* until the New Testament was written.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I would imagine Jesus was emphatic about the Bible

Why imagine?  Why not accept Jesus in His own words, His own teaching?

Why not accept the message of Jesus for what it is,,, a message of love, mercy, charity, forgiveness?

Humans have always co opted religion for their own purposes.  The message of Jesus is simple and, clear.

Was Jesus "emphatic about the bible", religion?  Or, was He emphatic about us being kind and loving?

What would you rather be, a good "christian" or, a good follower of Jesus?  Is there a difference?

[I_M4_AU 7,989]

17 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Why imagine?  Why not accept Jesus in His own words, His own teaching?

Why not accept the message of Jesus for what it is,,, a message of love, mercy, charity, forgiveness?

Humans have always co opted religion for their own purposes.  The message of Jesus is simple and, clear.

Was Jesus "emphatic about the bible", religion?  Or, was He emphatic about us being kind and loving?

What would you rather be, a good "christian" or, a good follower of Jesus?  Is there a difference?

The point is Jesus only had the Bible (Old Testament) to be emphatic about. You are one of a kind.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

2 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

The point is Jesus only had the Bible (Old Testament) to be emphatic about. You are one of a kind.

The Old Testament is NOT what Jesus was emphatic about.  He is the word.

The bible is not our guide.  The bible is merely for understanding the spirit of Jesus.  Jesus is God, not a book.

[homersapien 11,445]

14 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Can you give an example?

Oh, the normal stuff like the creation story, miracles, etc. Woman being created from Adam's rib. You know.

Do you really think such supernatural events deserve "research" to test them? How could we prove they are literally factual?

I can assure you than any scientific consideration of these stories will clearly show they are not - cannot - be literally true. (Can't believe I even have to say that.)

Is it not far more reasonable to interpret them as allegory?

Edited October 13, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,445]

13 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

“Embracing science and religion” is true. God could do what he wanted. 
 

The attempt and effort from atheists in a discussion like this is amazing. Only one poster I noted calling them or indicating “soulless”. 

"Attempt and effort" to do what? 

And what do you mean by your last sentence?

Edited October 13, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

53 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Not to me.  It is not the basis of my faith.  I'm not even sure the word myth is appropriate.

For those who have made the bible God, for those who have made the bible the basis of faith,,,

Myth is the word the agnostics and atheists use. You readily give “thumbsup” to their comments.

How do you discern study or use as guideline vs “worship” the Bible or making it their God? 
 

I can only assume that once again you feel ability supreme to judge others. 

[I_M4_AU 7,989]

These are your words:

Jesus always said that belief in the bible is the key to salvation.  He was particularly emphatic about the Old Testament.

9 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

The Old Testament is NOT what Jesus was emphatic about.  He is the word.

The bible is not our guide.  The bible is merely for understanding the spirit of Jesus.  Jesus is God, not a book.

Do you want to re-phrase your earlier statement?

[homersapien 11,445]

33 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

Myth is the word the agnostics and atheists use. You readily give “thumbsup” to their comments.

How do you discern study or use as guideline vs “worship” the Bible or making it their God? 
 

I can only assume that oncse again you feel ability supreme to judge others. 

"Myth" is a powerful and relevant term that defined and formed human history and culture. (Look up Joseph Campbell)

It is a serious philosophical concept, not just a derogatory or belittling term. 

And lay off ICHY.  He's not "judging" others, he's simply offering his opinion along with everyone else. And I - for one - think he's (mostly) right about Jesus.

Edited October 13, 2023 by homersapien

[icanthearyou 4,463]

24 minutes ago, SaltyTiger said:

I can only assume that once again you feel ability supreme to judge others. 

No.  I have judged no one. 

Why do you feel "judged"?

[icanthearyou 4,463]

30 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Is it not far more reasonable to interpret them as allegory?

Not if you have made god a book.  The book must be perfect.

Or, if your religion uses a book as a control mechanism.  You must believe in and, follow the book.

Do not look to a personal relationship with Jesus.  Follow a book.

When religions subordinate god to a book,,, evil will flourish.  We should strive to find god in our hearts, not a book.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

What is the basis of salvation?  Jesus in your heart or, obedience to the "laws" of the bible?

The love of Jesus is our only hope.

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

Oh, the normal stuff like the creation story, miracles, etc. Woman being created from Adam's rib. You know.

Do you really think such supernatural events deserve "research" to test them? How could we prove they are literally factual?

I can assure you than any scientific consideration of these stories will clearly show they are not - cannot - be literally true. (Can't believe I even have to say that.)

Is it not far more reasonable to interpret them as allegory?

Your first sentence was sufficient. No need to elaborate.

[homersapien 11,445]

2 hours ago, SaltyTiger said:

Your first sentence was sufficient. No need to elaborate.

What in the world did you think I was referring to when saying some things in the bible are evidently myth?

Edited October 13, 2023 by homersapien

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

1 hour ago, homersapien said:

"Myth" is a powerful and relevant term that defined and formed human history and culture. (Look up Joseph Campbell)

It is a serious philosophical concept, not just a derogatory or belittling term. 

And lay off ICHY.  He's not "judging" others, he's simply offering his opinion along with everyone else. And I - for one - think he's (mostly) right about Jesus.

“ Creation of man from clay myth”. Thank you Brother Homer and good that you are are not “belittling” or using myth in a derogatory way. Not sure I believe it.

Simply offering my opinion of ICHYs post.

[SaltyTiger 7,859]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  I have judged no one. 

Why do you feel "judged"?

I do not feel judged. Told you before that I do not feel it important to accept the Bible as everything literal.

[auburnatl1 5,026]

27 minutes ago, homersapien said:

What in the world did you think I was referring to when saying some things are evidently myth?

So do believe that the parts of the Bible that you’re not on board with are myth (just plain wrong) or allegorical (conveys a more complex truth within a simpler story or message)?