Republicans now own the border

[TexasTiger 12,887]

Democrats make the concessions they demand, Republicans back away preferring chaos for political reasons. These folks don’t give a damn about America.

https://s2.washingtonpost .com/camp-rw/?trackId=5ae881399bbc0f225b70fc08&s=65b245b68a2c755ea453cace&linknum=2&linktot=48&linknum=2&linktot=48

[economystupid 22]

10 minutes ago, TexasTiger said:

Democrats make the concessions they demand, Republicans back away preferring chaos for political reasons. These folks don’t give a damn about America.

https://s2.washingtonpost .com/camp-rw/?trackId=5ae881399bbc0f225b70fc08&s=65b245b68a2c755ea453cace&linknum=2&linktot=48&linknum=2&linktot=48

I think things were heading to an agreement until Trump interjected himself into this....I'm not absolving the Republicans in the House and Senate who ran scared to do his bidding, but make no mistake, it's Trump who caused this. 

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

The deal:

Democrats: Hey, we'll start enforcing the existing laws against illegal immigration again if you give us a bunch of money.

Establishment Republicans: What do you take us for, fools? You have to give us a bunch of money too and pinky swear you won't double cross us on enforcing the existing laws.

Trump & the Republican base: WTF?

Edited January 25 by Cardin Drake

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

The deal:

Democrats: Hey, we'll start enforcing the existing laws against illegal immigration again if you give us a bunch of money.

Establishment Republicans: What do you take us for, fools? You have to give us a bunch of money too and pinky swear you won't double cross us on enforcing the existing laws.

Trump & the Republican base: WTF?

Why would the Republicans trust anything Biden says about controlling the border?  Texas wants to protect itself and the Biden DOJ sues to make sure they can’t, Biden says; “give me more money and we will control the border”, but his idea of controlling the border is better facilitation of illegal immigrants into the interior of the US and Biden is willing to scuttle any Ukrainian aid to keep the border wide open.

Biden is not fulfilling his Constitutional duty to protect the American citizens and protect the sovereignty of the US.

What is going on?

[AUFAN78 3,900]

Biden could issue an EO and reinstate remain in Mexico today. He could stop the catch and release policy today. The president has the authority under existing federal law to do this but he chooses not to do so. That would effectively stop the flow and then allow time to work on a comprehensive immigration reform package. 

[auburnatl1 4,924]

This is a waters wet thing - trump blew up the deal purely for political optics. Maga - stop talking about Dems and … think for yourselves. Why specifically was the legislation blown up? Not what the Dems did - what you did. It’s toddler finger pointing.

[AUFAN78 3,900]

23 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

This is a waters wet thing - trump blew up the deal purely for political optics. Maga - stop talking about Dems and … think for yourselves. Why specifically was the legislation blown up? Not what the Dems did - what you did. It’s toddler finger pointing.

President Trump spoke out against a bipartisan framework last week, writing on his social media site, Truth Social: I do not think we should do a Border Deal, at all, unless we get EVERYTHING needed to shut down the INVASION of Millions & Millions of people, many from parts unknown...

I'm no Trump fan and hate his rhetoric, but agree with this point. Stop with these band aid deals and let's do something serious about stopping the flow.

Biden could issue an EO and reinstate remain in Mexico today. He could stop the catch and release policy today. The president has the authority under existing federal law to do this but he chooses not to do so. That would effectively stop the flow and then allow time to work on a comprehensive immigration reform package. 

Now that would be a deal the majority of Americans could agree upon. IMO

[auburnatl1 4,924]

11 minutes ago, AUFAN78 said:

President Trump spoke out against a bipartisan framework last week, writing on his social media site, Truth Social: I do not think we should do a Border Deal, at all, unless we get EVERYTHING needed to shut down the INVASION of Millions & Millions of people, many from parts unknown...

I'm no Trump fan and hate his rhetoric, but agree with this point. Stop with these band aid deals and let's do something serious about stopping the flow.

Biden could issue an EO and reinstate remain in Mexico today. He could stop the catch and release policy today. The president has the authority under existing federal law to do this but he chooses not to do so. That would effectively stop the flow and then allow time to work on a comprehensive immigration reform package. 

Now that would be a deal the majority of Americans could agree upon. IMO

So instead of a bipartisan bill - all (whatever that means) or nothing - blow it up. Classic. That’s not democracy.  Right back where we started. EOs are not laws - it’s typifies what I consider unamerican behavior.

I get that Biden is a train wreck on this but this was at least progress in stemming the tide. My frustration with maga brinkmanship on the budget, paying our debts, and the border is growing daily. It’s childish and destructive.

 

Edited January 25 by auburnatl1

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

The border was under control under Trump.  I have yet to hear a coherent reason why we need a bill.

[arein0 956]

9 minutes ago, Cardin Drake said:

The border was under control under Trump.  I have yet to hear a coherent reason why we need a bill.

A couple off the top of my head:

1. A bill is much harder to revoke than an executive order. With an executive order the next president can come in and undo it. With a bill, 2/3 congress has to vote to revoke the bill.

2. Because it has more staying power, you can budget for it more easily. Where the funding will come from should be discussed before the vote.

3. It is the process the founding fathers intended us to use. Executive orders are quicker, but it bypasses the checks and balances put in place.

In closing, I view Executive Orders as quick temporary solutions until Congress is able to formally finalize the solution (bill). We should not rely on Executive Orders for any long term solution. 

It is a bad look for Republicans to complain about the border for 4 years and when the Democrats want to sit down and finally discuss it,  leave. To me it shows that they don't really want to fix the problem.

[AUFAN78 3,900]

30 minutes ago, auburnatl1 said:

So instead of a bipartisan bill - all (whatever that means) or nothing - blow it up. Classic. That’s not democracy.  Right back where we started. EOs are not laws - it’s typifies what I consider unamerican behavior.

I get that Biden is a train wreck on this but this was at least progress in stemming the tide. My frustration with maga brinkmanship on the budget, paying our debts, and the border is growing daily. It’s childish and destructive.

 

The bill is not dead and they may yet sign it. But this bill doesn't solve the problem, if you believe those actually working at the border, which I do. It is a mere unnecessary band aid per the aforementioned border officials. No one stated EO's are laws, but they would stop the real problem at least and until we could work on immigration reform. 

Progress in stemming what tide exactly? 

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

7 minutes ago, arein0 said:

A couple off the top of my head:

1. A bill is much harder to revoke than an executive order. With an executive order the next president can come in and undo it. With a bill, 2/3 congress has to vote to revoke the bill.

2. Because it has more staying power, you can budget for it more easily. Where the funding will come from should be discussed before the vote.

3. It is the process the founding fathers intended us to use. Executive orders are quicker, but it bypasses the checks and balances put in place.

In closing, I view Executive Orders as quick temporary solutions until Congress is able to formally finalize the solution (bill). We should not rely on Executive Orders for any long term solution. 

It is a bad look for Republicans to complain about the border for 4 years and when the Democrats want to sit down and finally discuss it,  leave. To me it shows that they don't really want to fix the problem.

This bill is will not fix the problem and that is what the Republicans want:

 

 

[CoffeeTiger 5,108]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

This bill is will not fix the problem and that is what the Republicans want:

 

Republicans don't want a fix. The Trump campaign has instructed McConnell to stop all deals and negotiations for action on the border because Trump wants to make it a central topic of his upcoming 2024 campaign against Biden, and they don't want any deal to improve the border situation and blunt Trumps message. 

 

Since the economy is growing and improving Republicans are starting to become afraid that they wont have the ammunition they need to attack Biden this upcoming election. 

 

Edited January 25 by CoffeeTiger

[TexasTiger 12,887]

1 hour ago, Cardin Drake said:

The border was under control under Trump.  I have yet to hear a coherent reason why we need a bill.

To change asylum rules. Add security funding.

[I_M4_AU 7,839]

30 minutes ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans don't want a fix. The Trump campaign has instructed McConnell to stop all deals and negotiations for action on the border because Trump wants to make it a central topic of his upcoming 2024 campaign against Biden, and they don't want any deal to improve the border situation and blunt Trumps message. 

 

Since the economy is growing and improving Republicans are starting to become afraid that they wont have the ammunition they need to attack Biden this upcoming election. 

 

There was nothing wrong with the way the border was when Joe took over.  Joe manufactured this mess and now wants 5,000 illegals a day to cross as normal.  Do you think Joe is capable to hold immigration to 5,000 a day and for how long?  A week?  Oh, and that is 1.8 million a year.  Sounds like a lot better than what we have now, but way over what it was when the previous administration was in charge.  Joe is a joke.

McConnell is pushing the deal and he is no friend of Trump.  I disagree with your assessment.

[AUFAN78 3,900]

3 hours ago, arein0 said:

A couple off the top of my head:

1. A bill is much harder to revoke than an executive order. With an executive order the next president can come in and undo it. With a bill, 2/3 congress has to vote to revoke the bill.

2. Because it has more staying power, you can budget for it more easily. Where the funding will come from should be discussed before the vote.

3. It is the process the founding fathers intended us to use. Executive orders are quicker, but it bypasses the checks and balances put in place.

In closing, I view Executive Orders as quick temporary solutions until Congress is able to formally finalize the solution (bill). We should not rely on Executive Orders for any long term solution. 

It is a bad look for Republicans to complain about the border for 4 years and when the Democrats want to sit down and finally discuss it,  leave. To me it shows that they don't really want to fix the problem.

Agree with all this except the last point. This bill will not fix the problem.

[AUFAN78 3,900]

2 hours ago, CoffeeTiger said:

Republicans don't want a fix. The Trump campaign has instructed McConnell to stop all deals and negotiations for action on the border because Trump wants to make it a central topic of his upcoming 2024 campaign against Biden, and they don't want any deal to improve the border situation and blunt Trumps message. 

 

Since the economy is growing and improving Republicans are starting to become afraid that they wont have the ammunition they need to attack Biden this upcoming election. 

 

HR2 was a legitimate fix submitted by Republicans. Which party balked?

[AU9377 4,933]

7 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

The border was under control under Trump.  I have yet to hear a coherent reason why we need a bill.

You  honestly believe that?

[auburnatl1 4,924]

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You  honestly believe that?

 

5 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

You  honestly believe that?

What people need to accept is that there has been an election flip flop between the parties every 1-2 terms for 75 years (only exception is bush senior). If Trump is elected, it’ll be a dem in2028 or vice versa. Promise.

EOs are carbs - they don’t last. Fools gold. As was stated earlier - almosrt everything Trump did in 4 years was vaporized in 48 hrs. But like it or not, Obama care is still here. Laws last through the flip flops.  People seem to have lost the ability to think beyond a couple of years.  So trump eo’s the border.  In 4 years then what? It’ll be a flood.

Legislation takes adults and compromise. Neither party has many left. Which why no one wants to talk about the debt or social security. We have the attention span of chipmunks. Which needs to change.

[alanevans 47]

10 hours ago, AUFAN78 said:

Biden could issue an EO and reinstate remain in Mexico today. He could stop the catch and release policy today. The president has the authority under existing federal law to do this but he chooses not to do so. That would effectively stop the flow and then allow time to work on a comprehensive immigration reform package. 

Obama issued an Executive Order when Republicans wouldn’t work with him and you all went nuts saying he was being a king, Trump did it and you loved it

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

You all have lost your minds. Democrats refuse to enforce the laws on the books and you say the solution is more laws. They will find a loophole to those too.  If the illegal immigrants that have crossed the border since Biden became President all settled in their own state, it would be somewhere around the 18th most populous state.  The solution is to quit using border patrol as the official welcome wagon and use it the same way we always have until Obama and Biden showed up.

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

3 hours ago, AU9377 said:

You  honestly believe that?

The law that Joe Biden is not following is crystal clear:  Quoted from Andrew McCarthy:

To repeat: In Title 8, U.S. Code (which is where the immigration laws are), sec. 1225(b)(1)(B)(IV) states:

Any alien subject to the procedures under this clause shall be detained pending a final determination of credible fear of persecution and, if found not to have such a fear, until removed. [Emphasis added]

That is the presumptive rule. Even aliens who may have a valid “fear of persecution” claim are supposed to be kept in custody until that claim is adjudicated. They are not to be released into the United States. That is a congressional statute, and there is no plausible claim that it is unconstitutional. Therefore, the president’s sworn duty is to execute it faithfully.

So, that’s what the law says: Aliens who are apprehended trying to enter our country illegally are supposed to be detained.

Edited January 26 by Cardin Drake

[AU9377 4,933]

7 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

You all have lost your minds. Democrats refuse to enforce the laws on the books and you say the solution is more laws. They will find a loophole to those too.  If the illegal immigrants that have crossed the border since Biden became President all settled in their own state, it would be somewhere around the 18th most populous state.  The solution is to quit using border patrol as the official welcome wagon and use it the same way we always have until Obama and Biden showed up.

This is where you have been lied to.  You therefore begin with a false assumption and everything you say after that becomes skewed.

[Cardin Drake 1,828]

37 minutes ago, AU9377 said:

This is where you have been lied to.  You therefore begin with a false assumption and everything you say after that becomes skewed.

I think you are the one with a false assumption. Biden needs to be impeached for this:

Any alien subject to the procedures under this clause shall be detained pending a final determination of credible fear of persecution and, if found not to have such a fear, until removed. [Emphasis added]

[homersapien 11,374]

18 hours ago, Cardin Drake said:

The border was under control under Trump.  I have yet to hear a coherent reason why we need a bill.

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-data-show-migrants-were-more-likely-be-released-trump-biden

New Data Show Migrants Were More Likely to Be Released by Trump Than Biden

 

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/article/biden-three-immigration-record

"By taking 535 immigration actions over its first three years, the Biden administration has already outpaced the 472 immigration-related executive actions undertaken in all four years of President Donald Trump’s term. Partly as result of these efforts, legal immigration is returning to and in some cases surpassing pre-pandemic levels, including refugee admissions on pace to reach the highs of the 1990s; a new border process seeking to discourage irregular arrivals has been adopted; temporary humanitarian protections have been extended to hundreds of thousands of migrants; and enforcement priorities have been focused on narrower categories of unauthorized immigrants. Combined, these changes have fulfilled some of President Joe Biden’s campaign promises, helped bolster the U.S. economy, and reduced fears of seemingly arbitrary enforcement against removable noncitizens."

 

https://connolly.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=4691

MYTH: The Biden administration has implemented an “open border” policy that has created chaos at our border with Mexico.

TRUTH: President Biden inherited an immigration system in tatters. The Trump administration cut off legal pathways to citizenship, leaving would-be migrants with fewer lawful methods of entering the country. They cut funding to Central American countries in 2019 as they splurged on an ineffective, costly wall.

It was the Trump administration that tightened sanctions on Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua, exacerbating the macroeconomic crises that have led hundreds of thousands to flee and arrive at the southern border. When they pulled the rug out from various, essential assistance programs, they made the problem worse.
But our immigration system has been broken for many decades — long before Joe Biden or Donald Trump took the oath of office. Time and again, Democrats have proposed solutions to fix the immigration system in a reasonable, humane way. And time and again, Republicans have opposed these efforts at every turn.

One might recall that in 2013, House Republicans thwarted comprehensive immigration reform after an agreement was reached in the Senate. Many of those same House Republicans who prevented that legislation from passing are now intent on blaming irregular migration, an issue our country has dealt with for over a century, solely on the Biden administration.

There’s only one problem with their affinity for blaming Democrats — it doesn’t hold up to basic scrutiny. In fact, between December 2022 and January 2023, the Biden-Harris administration halved the number of encounters at the border and reduced the number of Cuban, Venezuelan, Nicaraguan, and Haitian migrants by 97 percent.
MYTH: The Biden administration has implemented an “open border” policy that has created chaos at our border with Mexico.

TRUTH: President Biden inherited an immigration system in tatters. The Trump administration cut off legal pathways to citizenship, leaving would-be migrants with fewer lawful methods of entering the country. They cut funding to Central American countries in 2019 as they splurged on an ineffective, costly wall.

It was the Trump administration that tightened sanctions on Cuba, Venezuela, and Nicaragua, exacerbating the macroeconomic crises that have led hundreds of thousands to flee and arrive at the southern border. When they pulled the rug out from various, essential assistance programs, they made the problem worse.

But our immigration system has been broken for many decades — long before Joe Biden or Donald Trump took the oath of office. Time and again, Democrats have proposed solutions to fix the immigration system in a reasonable, humane way. And time and again, Republicans have opposed these efforts at every turn.

One might recall that in 2013, House Republicans thwarted comprehensive immigration reform after an agreement was reached in the Senate. Many of those same House Republicans who prevented that legislation from passing are now intent on blaming irregular migration, an issue our country has dealt with for over a century, solely on the Biden administration.

There’s only one problem with their affinity for blaming Democrats — it doesn’t hold up to basic scrutiny. In fact, between December 2022 and January 2023, the Biden-Harris administration halved the number of encounters at the border and reduced the number of Cuban, Venezuelan, Nicaraguan, and Haitian migrants by 97 percent.

MYTH: The Biden administration has ignored the border and is refusing to commit proper resources to it.

TRUTH: The idea that Democrats have ignored the situation at the border and refused to commit resources to solving it is another outright lie. In reality, the Biden-Harris administration and congressional Democrats have surged record levels of funding to the border.

The FY23 government funding package that President Biden signed into law provided Border Patrol with $7.153 billion — a 17 percent increase from the year before. Additionally, the funding package provided $65 million for 300 new Border Patrol agents, $60 million for 125 new personnel at points of entry; and $230 million for technology like autonomous surveillance towers.

House Republicans voted against this historic funding.

MYTH: Biden’s “open border” policies allow undocumented immigrants to flood the country with deadly fentanyl.

TRUTH: Republicans continue to blame vulnerable migrants fleeing violence, hunger, and natural disasters for illicit drug smuggling, but facts are stubborn things. Over 90 percent of fentanyl, and over 80 percent of total illegal narcotics, arrive at legal points of entry—not between them—and are smuggled largely by Americans—not undocumented migrants. In fact, migrants accounted for less than 9 percent of fentanyl trafficking convictions in FY 21, compared to more than 86 percent for American citizens.

In December 2022, CBP seized 4,500 pounds of fentanyl, the largest amount ever recorded. Incredibly, just five of those 4,500 pounds were seized at the border by U.S. Border Patrol. Republicans are focused on 1 percent of the problem, 100 percent of the time.

MYTH: Biden’s “open border” policies have allowed criminals and terrorists to pour over the southern border unchecked, contributing to a spike in crime in America.

TRUTH: Study after study has shown that undocumented immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S. citizens. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement’s (ICE) Alternatives to Detention Program provides a strong example: The latest data from ICE released on Feb. 3, 2023, demonstrated 99.4 percent of immigrants monitored on ICE’s Alternatives to Detention Program attended their court hearings compared to the .6 percent which failed to attend their hearing.

Not all undocumented immigrants are tracked through this program, but immigrants, when paroled into the United States, overwhelmingly are lawful individuals that attend their court hearings. An American Immigration Council report found that over the past 11 years, an overwhelming 83 percent of immigrants attended their immigration court hearings, and those who failed to appear in court often did not receive notice or faced hardship in getting to court.

Republicans who assert the Biden administration is releasing countless dangerous migrants into the country are not only trafficking in xenophobic, anti-immigrant sentiment, but they are also peddling lies that are categorically false.

The situation at the border demands serious policy solutions that provide a pathway to citizenship for DACA recipients; address the root causes of migration like repression, political instability, violence, hunger, and lack of economic opportunity; and fix our own broken immigration system.