AFTiger 282 Posted February 22, 2007 Share Posted February 22, 2007 OK here is what we can do: 1. Within the Department of Justice we establish the Social Justice Administration. 2. Impose the Social Justice Tax say 10% matched by your employer. If you are self employed, you pay 20%. 3. Establish a table of standard law practices and assign a reimbursement rate for each one. 4. Do not allow for private access to lawyers as it would be an unfair advantage for the poor victim. 5. Establish a system of copay to lessen the effect of moral hazard. 6. Supplemental lawyer insurance could offset the copay. Premiums to be established by the insurance companies. No more court appointed attorneys since everyone would have equal access. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,441 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I like it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger in Spain 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 You have my vote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Al 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I thought you guys were all for lowering taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 I thought you guys were all for lowering taxes. Just bringing the hidden lawyer tax out into the open. Maybe 20% is high. Need to lower it so we can control the fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,441 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 This isnt a tax now, So technically it is creating a tax, maybe even a user fee. It isnt just RAISING taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tiger Al 0 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thisw isnt a tax now, So technically it is creating a tax, maybe even a user fee. It isnt just RAISING taxes. Sounds like a tax to me: 2. Impose the Social Justice Tax say 10% matched by your employer. If you are self employed, you pay 20%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 23, 2007 Author Share Posted February 23, 2007 Thisw isnt a tax now, So technically it is creating a tax, maybe even a user fee. It isnt just RAISING taxes. Sounds like a tax to me: 2. Impose the Social Justice Tax say 10% matched by your employer. If you are self employed, you pay 20%. The current lawyer tax adds about 20% to the price of all goods. If we could somehow divert that to the Social Justisce Administration, we could solve the problem and provide Universal Legal Care. Everyone has a right to a lawyer, we just need a better way to fund it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUloggerhead 2,253 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,441 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Another thing, we need a bunch of legally clueless nerds writing all the regulations that the Lawyers must now follow. The should be allowed to generate new regualtions at the drop of a hat and then to be able to interpret what they wrote themselves. We should pay these folks multiples of what the common man makes and work them at their leisure. They need to be for tghe most part uneducated at the college level. They need to have a serious attitude problem. They need to be sanctimonious and righteous and ready to take on a Lawyer at a moments notice to tell him what he should do and how to try a case. If a lawyer loses your case, we need to have a arbitration system up and running so that the lawyers can make restittution for any case they lose for their clients. Suing a lawyer should be streamlined, like an assembly line. It should force lawyers to carry malfeasance insurance. It will be astronomical and will increase yearly. It should drive many lawyers out of business or into night court.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Another thing, we need a bunch of legally clueless nerds writing all the regulations that the Lawyers must now follow. The should be allowed to generate new regualtions at the drop of a hat and then to be able to interpret what they wrote themselves. We should pay these folks multiples of what the common man makes and work them at their leisure. They need to be for tghe most part uneducated at the college level. They need to have a serious attitude problem. They need to be sanctimonious and righteous and ready to take on a Lawyer at a moments notice to tell him what he should do and how to try a case. If a lawyer loses your case, we need to have a arbitration system up and running so that the lawyers can make restittution for any case they lose for their clients. Suing a lawyer should be streamlined, like an assembly line. It should force lawyers to carry malfeasance insurance. It will be astronomical and will increase yearly. It should drive many lawyers out of business or into night court.... Most lawyers do carry malpractice insurance. Lawyers are sued for malpractice. Lawyers police themselves far more than doctors do. The background check process for being professionally licensed to practice law is far more strenuous than the process for being licensed to practice medicine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. In jurisdictions without a public defender, attorney's are assigned such cases at a severely reduced rate-- far less than medicare pays doctors for comparable amounts. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. You would actually have a better chance walking into a law firm with out the ability to pay than a doctor's office. Many law firms routinely do pro bono work and lawyers take some cases on contingency--- they don't win, you pay nothing. In fact, most medical malpractice cases are that way so they aren't likely to take a medical malpractice case that is truly frivilous-- it would be a waste of their time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Okay, work for it. You won't find as many lawyers fighting you as doctors fight universal health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,441 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 And apparently the humor element here is flying right by a lot of folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 And apparently the humor element here is flying right by a lot of folks. I recognize the lack of sincerity and the sarcasm. Sometimes that goes with humor, but you guys just can't pull off the humor thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,054 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Okay, work for it. You won't find as many lawyers fighting you as doctors fight universal health care. Do you actually believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Okay, work for it. You won't find as many lawyers fighting you as doctors fight universal health care. Do you actually believe that? Yes. If the government wants to pay lawyers to provide legal services, most won't object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigermike 3,054 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Okay, work for it. You won't find as many lawyers fighting you as doctors fight universal health care. Do you actually believe that? Yes. If the government wants to pay lawyers to provide legal services, most won't object. And they will all be paid at the same GS14 level. Yeah, I am sure there would be any howling about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 There are so many American citizens out there today that simply just cannot afford a lawyer. If you were to walk into any lawyer office and demand legal care, they could have you thrown out just because you don't have the money to pay! It's a legal travesty, I tell you -- hardly befitting this great land of ours built on laws. Every one charged with a crime is entitled to have a lawyer. If you can't afford it, it is provided to you. For civil matters, Legal Services, Corp. provides legal representation for the indigent, although every Republican administration has slashed their budgets. Maybe you could write your congressmen and the President and express your belief that the poor need better legal support. The poor get free legal support. It is the middle class that gets screwed. We need a system of equal justice for all regardless of income. I believe that Universal Legal Care is the way to go. It is our right. Okay, work for it. You won't find as many lawyers fighting you as doctors fight universal health care. Do you actually believe that? Yes. If the government wants to pay lawyers to provide legal services, most won't object. And they will all be paid at the same GS14 level. Yeah, I am sure there would be any howling about that. Who is saying that? That's your analogy to your fantasy that Dems are advocating a Canadian style health plan. If it were like medicare, many lawyers would be eager to take that business. Others wouldn't. BTW, I think we are fortunate if we can just hang on to a decent public defender program and legal services for the indigent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 TT, public defenders will not provide legal services to the middle class. If we had Universal Legal Care, we wouldn't have to fund the public defender program. Everybody would have access to legal services regardless of income. I know people that have had to sell everything and go into poverty to pay for legal defenses. Is that fair? You can't even declare bankruptcy to avoid paying a lawyer like you can to avoid paying doctors. As far as doctors liking Medicare, find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TexasTiger 13,028 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I know people that have had to sell everything and go into poverty to pay for legal defenses. Who? For what? I'm mean other than Clinton. You can't even declare bankruptcy to avoid paying a lawyer like you can to avoid paying doctors. Got a link? As far as doctors liking Medicare, find one. Move to strike, non responsive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 Ignorant is no way to go through life I know people that have had to sell everything and go into poverty to pay for legal defenses. Who? For what? I'm mean other than Clinton. Former president Bill Clinton, who came to the White House with modest means and left deeply in debt, has collected nearly $40 million in speaking fees over the past six years, according to interviews and financial disclosure statements filed by his wife, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DKW 86 7,441 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 AFT, dont bother. This is his standard MO. He asks the vaguest, general questions and then when you answer, will ask more vague and general questions until you tire of answering him. You can answer him 100 times and he will still be pretending that he doesnt see your point, etc. As for: QUOTE(AFTiger @ Feb 24 2007, 09:24 PM) I know people that have had to sell everything and go into poverty to pay for legal defenses. Who? For what? I'm mean other than Clinton. 1) Clinton is an exceedingly wealthy man. He made $40M plus speaking last 6 years. Bill Clinton talks his way to fortuneNearly $40 million in speech fees in 6 years http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...1&cset=true Therefore the assertion that Clintax was driven into the poor house with all his misdeeds investigations is just silly. 2) I personally know of people here in Decatur that have been driven into insolvency from fighting the IRS/DEA/EPA or defending a family member in court. People have lost homes and retirement savings getting defenders to keep their children out of prison. Illegal property seizures also happen all the time. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...27/191414.shtml Under civil asset forfeiture, your property – not you – is charged with a crime. Hence the bizarre title of civil forfeiture cases: "United States vs. one 1998 Mercedes Benz," "California vs. 1711 Main Street," and so forth.Once your property is charged with a crime, it can be seized and kept by police, even if you are never convicted of anything. An appeals court in Florida even ruled that police can personally receive bounties of 25 percent of the value of anything they seize from you, such as your car, bank accounts or home. There are now more than 400 federal offenses and thousands of state and local offenses for which your cash, car, bank accounts and home can be seized – including shoplifting, hiring an illegal alien such as a maid (California), playing a car stereo too loud (New York), transporting illegal fireworks, gambling, having illegal drugs on your property, and merely discussing violating any law ("conspiracyâ€Â), such as underpaying your taxes. More than $1 billion in property is now seized without trial each year from innocent Americans, according to the national forfeiture defense organization FEAR (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) (4). Seizures range from the pocket cash of poor street people to the cars of men accused of soliciting prostitutes to multimillion-dollar apartment buildings. http://www.fear.org/ http://www.fear.org/victimstorys.html As for bankruptcy, you can avoid paying an attorney by declaring bankruptcy. I have seen this done first hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFTiger 282 Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 AFT, dont bother. This is his standard MO. He asks the vaguest, general questions and then when you answer, will ask more vague and general questions until you tire of answering him. You can answer him 100 times and he will still be pretending that he doesnt see your point, etc. As for: QUOTE(AFTiger @ Feb 24 2007, 09:24 PM) I know people that have had to sell everything and go into poverty to pay for legal defenses. Who? For what? I'm mean other than Clinton. 1) Clinton is an exceedingly wealthy man. He made $40M plus speaking last 6 years. Bill Clinton talks his way to fortuneNearly $40 million in speech fees in 6 years http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationw...1&cset=true Therefore the assertion that Clintax was driven into the poor house with all his misdeeds investigations is just silly. 2) I personally know of people here in Decatur that have been driven into insolvency from fighting the IRS/DEA/EPA or defending a family member in court. People have lost homes and retirement savings getting defenders to keep their children out of prison. Illegal property seizures also happen all the time. http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2...27/191414.shtml Under civil asset forfeiture, your property – not you – is charged with a crime. Hence the bizarre title of civil forfeiture cases: "United States vs. one 1998 Mercedes Benz," "California vs. 1711 Main Street," and so forth.Once your property is charged with a crime, it can be seized and kept by police, even if you are never convicted of anything. An appeals court in Florida even ruled that police can personally receive bounties of 25 percent of the value of anything they seize from you, such as your car, bank accounts or home. There are now more than 400 federal offenses and thousands of state and local offenses for which your cash, car, bank accounts and home can be seized – including shoplifting, hiring an illegal alien such as a maid (California), playing a car stereo too loud (New York), transporting illegal fireworks, gambling, having illegal drugs on your property, and merely discussing violating any law ("conspiracyâ€Â), such as underpaying your taxes. More than $1 billion in property is now seized without trial each year from innocent Americans, according to the national forfeiture defense organization FEAR (Forfeiture Endangers American Rights) (4). Seizures range from the pocket cash of poor street people to the cars of men accused of soliciting prostitutes to multimillion-dollar apartment buildings. http://www.fear.org/ http://www.fear.org/victimstorys.html As for bankruptcy, you can avoid paying an attorney by declaring bankruptcy. I have seen this done first hand. Oh I understand TexasTiger's tactics. He still has not answered my four questions and will not because he can't stand the truth. I must be doing something right to make his wall of hate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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