An open letter to Senator Obama

[BamaGrad03 0]

I'm going to give you the same answer if you asked me what's wrong with banning all abortions.

So you don't think there's a difference in aborting a fetus that has no developed organs and couldn't live on it's own...and sucking the brains out of a viable living human?

[DKW 86 7,441]

Why can't a women decide what she does with her body?I may not agree,but its not my body.

Why cant she....

Get real birth control from Wal-Greens, Wal-Mart, or freakin Target for that matter?

Keep her panties on?

Do something besides vaginal sex?

Have oral sex?

Have anal sex?

Have vibrator sex?

Have masturbatory sex?

Hell, have homosexual sex if you are that hard up?

Just say no?

Wait till the right time, after marriage?

etc, etc, etc

Do something other than vaginal intercourse?

You folks do realize that there is no Mean Ole Pregnancy Fairy out there roaming around trying to screw your life up right? You do realize that right? That babies come from VAGINAL sex?

Some of us have just lost patience with these very tired arguments that when analyzed really dont have much content in them. If a woman wants to control her own body, why cant she control it in such a way, and still have fun, that she wont get pregnant?

And you were never 16-20 once?

Yes, and I was a selfish little twit too. I never was part of an abortion that I know. I did help a friend pay for his tho. They were both the son and daughter of career medical professionals. They had condoms near by. They were both educated about sex. There was no reason other than "Well, when youve had few beers and you just get so into it..." Those two paid for the abortion after they borrowed the money from me. I regret that. I also regret that two folks that were intelligent and informed were just too damn lazy to take responsibility for their sex lives. They were both 18, btw.

[WinCrimson 61]

I'm going to give you the same answer if you asked me what's wrong with banning all abortions.

So you don't think there's a difference in aborting a fetus that has no developed organs and couldn't live on it's own...and sucking the brains out of a viable living human?

Both are equally as terrifying in my eyes. Believe it or not, I hate the thought of abortions as much as anyone. If I could be assured that there would never be another procedure, I'd be thrilled. However, I realize that a ban certainly won't accomplish.

However, I'm never going to concede that the government should impose its collective "morality" on a woman. Most of you rally against what you believe to be "socialized" medicine, yet, you're essentially expecting the federal government to be forced to keep a record of all pregnancies? Save that for southeastern Europe. Not here.

BTW, Congress will see a Democratic tidal wave this cycle and Obama will move into 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. Bader Ginsburg and Stevens are likely to retire, with Breyer being an outside possibility, too. The SCOTUS will see several younger liberals sworn in. Roe isn't going anywhere... Though, it could have been reversed long ago Reagan and Bush Sr. hadn't stubbed their toes on the issue. Over the past 7 years, Republicans have proven to me that they are equally as adapt at tearing down their own creation as Dems. Both parties could **** up a warm cup of coffee.

[AUTiger1 0]

The only reason I can see getting an abortion is for the following reasons: rape, incest, or risk to the mother. To use it as a form of birth control(call it correcting a mistake or what ever you want to make yourself feel bettr), b/c "you had a few too many beers" is not an option in my book. I agree with DKW 86 on this point. If you happen to get a girl pregnant at some party where you are both drunk or you are out on a date and go parking out in the woods or whatever the circumstance, then tough. Take the responsibility and do what is right. You can always put the child up for adoption if you don't want it and I am positive there are people out there that would love to raise that child. One can get free birth control at the Health Department, so to me using abortion as a form of birth control is not only wrong to me, it is irresponsible.

[autiger4life 3]

I guess I never understand the abortion debate. It really should not be a debate on whether abortion should be legal, the debate should be when a human is a human. If a fetus(at a certain time) is a human, then abortion is illegal because that is murder. If a fetus(at any certain time) is not a human, then abortion is really just removing an unwanted part of a person's body. I don't think the question of abortion is morals or politics, it is religon or science. If you subscribe to the Holy Bible then I think it is fairly clear about what God says about when life begins. If it is science, then it really depends on what science you subscribe to.

As far as if the baby has already been born, well that seems it would be a human to me, but once again, it is a question of when it is a human, not really anything so the debate or sharing of views should be more on when a human is a human, because that should explain everything else.

I do have a question though and this question is mainly out of ignorance; are there any laws making it illegal for a mother to drink alcohol while pregnant, or eat certain harmful things, or smoke, or anything else. If people believe that a human is a human in the fetus, then wouldn't doing something like drinking alcohol be considered child abuse since it can easily cause mental retardation. Wouldn't other activities that can possible harm the child(fetus) need to be illegal since that would be child abuse if a mother did an activity that would harm at 5 month old. Are there any laws such as this?

As far as the rape or incest issue, once again no real debate IMO except when a human is a human. If a fetus is a human then you still cannot commit murder because of a rape. If a mother has a 2 year old, then gets raped, she cannot kill her son,(I know kinda apples and oranges) so if a fetus is a human then why should a mother be able to commit murder because she was raped.

Does everyone agree that the real question is when does life begin, not really anything else. It just seems that when you answer that, it answers all the other questions.

[WREGL3 0]

The argument here isn't even abortion. It's aborting a VIABLE LIVING FETUS.

What's wrong with enacting laws that require a 1st trimester abortion?

Nothing is wrong with it. People just like to argue. I guess.

[WinCrimson 61]

If you happen to get a girl pregnant at some party where you are both drunk or you are out on a date and go parking out in the woods or whatever the circumstance, then tough. Take the responsibility and do what is right.

Tough for the female, right? There's no punishment, from the government or in the eyes of society, for the man. She'll see her career and lifestyle come to a screeching halt while he'll carry on with his life... thanks in part because an elite group of rich white men over 50 want to be reelected.

autiger4life raises an excellent point in his third paragraph.

[WinCrimson 61]

The argument here isn't even abortion. It's aborting a VIABLE LIVING FETUS.

What's wrong with enacting laws that require a 1st trimester abortion?

Nothing is wrong with it. People just like to argue. I guess.

Nah.

As a matter of fact, I steer as far away from arguments as I possibly can. It's not my goal in life to run off friends over political issues. I don't talk politics except with people I know that debate civilly. Trust me when I say there is nothing I hate more than a childish pissing match.

I don't even see this as an "argument." BamaGrad, Titan, DKW, and the rest know how much I respect their opinion and right to hold one. There's nothing wrong with a healthy debate as long as people can contain their tempers. I know that everyone that posts here is more than capable of that.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

However, I'm never going to concede that the government should impose its collective "morality" on a woman. Most of you rally against what you believe to be "socialized" medicine, yet, you're essentially expecting the federal government to be forced to keep a record of all pregnancies? Save that for southeastern Europe. Not here.

Interestingly, our laws regarding abortion are more out there than most of Europe...the Western part including Germany, Britain and others.

In France, abortion after 12 weeks is allowed only if two doctors say a woman's health is endangered or the fetus has a serious abnormality.

In Sweden, abortion is provided free and on demand until week 18. After that, a woman must secure special permission from a medical board.

Denmark has abortion on demand for the first 12 weeks. After that, there are limits and terminations are few after 16 weeks.

Germany, Austria, Italy, Bulgaria, Denmark, Czech Republic and several others restrict abortions to before the 12th week. Germany even requires a 3 day waiting period and counseling by the state-run health agencies that tells them the unborn have a right to life and encouraging them to have the child.

Britain allows them up to 24 weeks making theirs the most liberal in Europe but there is talk over lowering the restriction to 20 weeks.

There's good precedent for erring on the side of caution when terminating a life for birth control reasons. We're just not paying attention.

[AUTiger1 0]

If you happen to get a girl pregnant at some party where you are both drunk or you are out on a date and go parking out in the woods or whatever the circumstance, then tough. Take the responsibility and do what is right.

Tough for the female, right? There's no punishment, from the government or in the eyes of society, for the man. She'll see her career and lifestyle come to a screeching halt while he'll carry on with his life... thanks in part because an elite group of rich white men over 50 want to be reelected.

autiger4life raises an excellent point in his third paragraph.

Negative sir, it is tough for both party's involved in my book. It takes two to tango and both should have to bear that responsibility. If you will re-read what I said..."If you happen to get a girl pregnant at some party"...you will see that it was directed more at guys than it was at the gals, since there are a lot more guys that frequent this forum than females, I thought it was understood that's who I was talking to.

Trust me, I was young once, liked to party as much as the next college aged kid and I was in the situation where I had decided that I was going fess up to the parents, tell them my girlfriend was pregnant and that I was quitting school to get a job, get married and raise a kid. Just so happened that she wasn't pregnant. But abortion was the last thing on our mind, b/c we had made a "mistake". I guess that is where I differ from some. I was willing to man up for my actions and I wasn't looking for a handout.

[BamaGrad03 0]

Someone explain to me...how a guy can stab a woman in the stomach and get TWO life sentences for a DOUBLE HOMICIDE...yet the baby has no rights when it comes to the mother offing it.

[channonc 466]

Someone explain to me...how a guy can stab a woman in the stomach and get TWO life sentences for a DOUBLE HOMICIDE...yet the baby has no rights when it comes to the mother offing it.

I am pro-choice. In this instance, unless the woman was on her way to get an abortion than she CHOSE to have her baby. I feel the woman should be able to choose life and have protection that way as well.

Titan, I will just say as far as this issue is concerned, I will just simply agree to disagree with you. That being said, I have to respect your consistency in the life issue, as I have seen you state several times you are also against the death penalty. Not many on your side of the debate can say that, and for that I applaud you.

I often refer to myself (jokingly of course) as pro-death. I am all for abortion, and all for capital punishment.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Well, organizations like NARAL often fight such laws because of their fear that treating the fetus as a person who has been killed in the commission of that crime might be construed one day to give them the right not to be aborted.

[autiger4life 3]

Someone explain to me...how a guy can stab a woman in the stomach and get TWO life sentences for a DOUBLE HOMICIDE...yet the baby has no rights when it comes to the mother offing it.

I agree, it shows that much more is put on emotion in this debate and now reason. It is either a person or it is not. You cannot have your cake and eat it too.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Titan, I will just say as far as this issue is concerned, I will just simply agree to disagree with you. That being said, I have to respect your consistency in the life issue, as I have seen you state several times you are also against the death penalty. Not many on your side of the debate can say that, and for that I applaud you.

Well, I'm semi-consistent. I'm not against the death penalty in principle. That is, I believe there are crimes such as murder that are heinous enough that the only truly equitable justice for what has been done is that the killer forfeits his/her own life. My problem is in the actual implementation. I think it's open to bias, human error, corruption and so on as DNA evidence years later often shows. That's not justice. So I'd rather sentence them all to life without parole than to execute even one person who didn't commit the crime.

I guess you could say I'm pro-innocent life.