Terri Schiavo,

[Tigermike 3,054]

What do all of you think?

Was the Governor of Fla right?

Is her husband right?

Parents?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/coma.woman/index.html

[CCTAU 3,349]

What do all of you think?

Was the Governor of Fla right?

Is her husband right?

Parents?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/10/22/coma.woman/index.html

Like my wife told me, "Let me die in peace." Whats left of this woman has been sitting there for quite a while. Is she trapped and don't know it, or is she tortured knowing that she is trapped. I feel that if the body cannot sustain itself after a period of several years, it ain't gonna happen. Now, if the doctors and the hospital want to keep that person alive pro bono.......but that would never happen, would it?

[Tigermike 3,054]

if the doctors and the hospital want to keep that person alive pro bono.......but that would never happen, would it?

Do doctors or hospitals do anything pro bono?

[CCTAU 3,349]

if the doctors and the hospital want to keep that person alive pro bono.......but that would never happen, would it?

Do doctors or hospitals do anything pro bono?

THAT was pretty much my point. The ONLY reason for keeping this poor woman alive right now is to give somebody a job.

[Weagle98 119]

http://www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm

go to terri's situation and downloads if nothing else on the page.

[CCTAU 3,349]

Interesting reading. A few facts that seem to be left out of mainstream media. But I guess the real question is; is she a vegetable or not? Just because she responds to her parents, is she responding to touch, closeness, etc., or is it to just their presence. IS THIS WOMAN ALIVE? or is she just existing. She does deserve a chance at rehab if it is possible. But there needs to be an independent study done. Not one from her husband or her family. The state needs to evaluate this individual and determine her existence.

[Tigermike 3,054]

http://www.terrisfight.org/lead.htm

go to terri's situation and downloads if nothing else on the page.

If her husband will gain financially from her death, it seems to me he should not be in position to make decisions concerning her.

There is a great deal of info there that we don't get from the News.

[Grumps 3,704]

TigerMike & CCTAU -

You guys crack me up. You make it sound like it is the doctors who want to keep this woman alive so they can make more money from her. I don't know who to believe about this woman's true condition, but I have not read anywhere that it is the doctors or hospital who want to prolong this woman's life. Most doctors and nurses and hospitals want to abide by the patient's wishes. It sounds like her husband is a piece of crap, but that doesn't mean Terri would want to be kept alive for 12 years if she is incapable of ever being able to think or respond again. If you were her doctor do you think you would enjoy seeing her every day for 12 years if you were sure she could never get better?

Also, no pro bono work????

Who do you think takes care of all the millions of uninsured sick people?

Just wondering.

[Tigermike 3,054]

. You make it sound like it is the doctors who want to keep this woman alive so they can make more money from her.

It sounds like her husband is a piece of crap,

Who do you think takes care of all the millions of uninsured sick people?

Just wondering.

No, actually I think the hospitals are more than happy for her to stay, as long as the money is coming in.

We do agree that her husband is a piece of crap.

Actually I think that anyone with insurance or who pays cash for medical treatment pays for most "pro bono" work that hospitals perform.

[Weagle98 119]

In a malpractice lawsuit, Terri’s husband personally received over $300,000 for his loss of consortium. Terri was awarded $750,000 from this suit and an additional $250,000 from a separate malpractice lawsuit. The money was awarded to Terri for her care and rehabilitation and to be placed in a Medical Trust Fund.  Terri’s husband received his personal award money and Terri’s medical fund money in early 1993. From the date he received the award money in 1993, Michael Schiavo has denied Terri any rehabilitation treatment. Michael Schiavo has confined Terri to a nursing home (currently, Terri is in a Hospice facility) where she is 'maintained.'

Her husband has directed that Terri only be sustained in a nursing home which is contrary to the intent of the award money.  Michael Schiavo has on two occasions unsuccessfully attempted to end Terri’s life by instructing her caretakers not to medicate Terri for potentially fatal infections. The first occasion occurred less than nine months after her husband received the malpractice award money.

Terri has no will. Should she die, her husband will inherit what is left of Terri’s $750,000 medical fund.

Terri’s husband lives in a house with Jodi Centonze. He openly admits that he has been engaged to this women for over seven years, have recently given birth to a baby girl, and has announced plans to marry her when Terri is no longer alive.

Since receiving the award money in 1993, her husband has ceased and prohibited any new or aggressive treatment for Terri. He has only maintained Terri at a nursing home (currently, Terri is in a Hospice facility).  He has totally ignored or denied rehabilitation therapy that could possibly assist Terri’s recovery.

Since 1993, Terri’s husband has consistently and deliberately withheld all medical information and data from Terri’s family. Over the past eight years he has ordered Terri’s caretakers not to reveal any medical or neurological information

Michael Schiavo will not permit any doctor to examine Terri other than the doctors he selects.

As Terri’s legal guardian, her husband has used her medical fund money to offset the legal costs when his guardianship of Terri was initially challenged and to pay the current legal costs to have Terri’s life ended.

Terri responds regularly to the presence of her parents and friends. Her husband's doctors testified Terri's cognizant responses to Terri’s parents and friends are simply a reflex action.

[Weagle98 119]

Interesting reading. A few facts that seem to be left out of mainstream media. But I guess the real question is; is she a vegetable or not? Just because she responds to her parents, is she responding to touch, closeness, etc., or is it to just their presence. IS THIS WOMAN ALIVE? or is she just existing. She does deserve a chance at rehab if it is possible. But there needs to be an independent study done. Not one from her husband or her family. The state needs to evaluate this individual and determine her existence.

In regards to a vegetable.

http://www.terrisfight.org/downloads/index.html

Go down to the audio and visual links. Look and listen to them.

Someone ina vegatative state cannot do this.

As the site states

Terri communicates with her father. She responds to his questions and tries desperately to speak. This is NOT something a patient in a persistent vegetative state could possibly do.

Stephen Hawking can't speak or make any "real" movement. He has to blink in order to communicate.

I think more time needs to be taken by an independent party to evaluate the situation as well.

[CCTAU 3,349]

.  You make it sound like it is the doctors who want to keep this woman alive so they can make more money from her. 

It sounds like her husband is a piece of crap,

Who do you think takes care of all the millions of uninsured sick people?

Just wondering.

No, actually I think the hospitals are more than happy for her to stay, as long as the money is coming in.

We do agree that her husband is a piece of crap.

Actually I think that anyone with insurance or who pays cash for medical treatment pays for most "pro bono" work that hospitals perform.

I agree.

Dr. Tom, unfortunately most doctors don't even keep up with insurance or who pays what, they have others to do that for them. And no I don't think a doctor likes to see a patient like that. BUT he still bills for that time and collects his money!

Like I said. An independant diagnosis needs to be made. Is this woman cognizant or is she trapped inside with no way out. Or is she just responding physically, but no real recognition is there. Being a parent, I would hate to see my child like that. But I do give myself credit to think that after 12 years I would get it. There are a LOT of selfish people out there who keep the sick and dying alive just for them. I suggest you talk to your spouse and family and let them know now what you would like to be done in that situation. I think at this point in time, she needs to be in peace. But like I said, its no my call. Ugly situation nonethe less. Is the husband a peice of crap? I don't know. How would you be in that situation? Is he actually doing the things they say on that website? Remember, that is a site for her, not him. and he has already been deemed her enemy. So what is the real truth?

[CCTAU 3,349]

TigerMike & CCTAU -

You guys crack me up. You make it sound like it is the doctors who want to keep this woman alive so they can make more money from her. I don't know who to believe about this woman's true condition, but I have not read anywhere that it is the doctors or hospital who want to prolong this woman's life. Most doctors and nurses and hospitals want to abide by the patient's wishes. It sounds like her husband is a piece of crap, but that doesn't mean Terri would want to be kept alive for 12 years if she is incapable of ever being able to think or respond again. If you were her doctor do you think you would enjoy seeing her every day for 12 years if you were sure she could never get better?

Also, no pro bono work????

Who do you think takes care of all the millions of uninsured sick people?

Just wondering.

Oh, and Dr. Tom, thanks for registering and posting. We always need more info and opinions from a divers group.

Unless you are aliberal weenie like TigerAl and Cshine.

[Weagle98 119]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=35231

[Jenny AU-92 0]

All I have to say is that you are NEVER too young to have a living will or to make your wishes known to your family. No one likes talking about this kind of stuff, but if Terri had had one simple conversation with her parents, this would all be over now. So my comment is - MAKE OUT A LIVING WILL AND AND ADVANCED HEALTHCARE DIRECTIVE!! I have one in Word format - PM me with an email address and I will be glad to share it with anyone that wants it. It is very specific, allows you to designate a person to act as your health care proxy and leaves no legal stone unturned when it comes to making sure your own personal wishes are upheld. I have made the decision that I NEVER want to be left like Terri and I have backed up that position by being an organ donor. My husband is my proxy and both he and my parents and sister have a copy of my living will. This is such a smart thing to do if you want to spare your family the pain her familyis experiencing right now.

I did hear a new report yesterday from a neurologist that the state of FLorida called in to review the case, and he said flat out that the part of her brain that controls cognitive thought and voluntary movement is mush, and the rest is reflex - and yes, that includes eyes blinking and involuntary muscle movement.

Altho her husband is coming across as a total jerk, you must admit that after thirteen years, the man does have the right to go on with his life.

[channonc 466]

I agree. He does sound like a jerk, but at some point life must go on. Its pretty apparent that she will never be able to have a normal life again. So should he have to just wait until he's 80 to see who dies first him or her? That's not very fair. I understand from her parents point of view they want everything done possible, but it seems like they are holding on to false hope. I can only imagine how painful it must be to see your child die before you. That's just not the natural way of things.

[Tigermike 3,054]

I agree. He does sound like a jerk, but at some point life must go on. Its pretty apparent that she will never be able to have a normal life again. So should he have to just wait until he's 80 to see who dies first him or her?

That's not very fair.

I can only imagine how painful it must be to see your child die before you. That's just not the natural way of things.

Why could he not divorce her? Maybe because if he did, he would loose control of the money?

Much about life is not fair. But to end her life so that he can go on with his seems equally unfair.

Just as all of you, I am thankful it is not me that has to make a decision like this. To be fair, the whole ordeal probably has not been easy on her husband, but he got on with his life years ago. It seems he just wants the money now.

[Weagle98 119]

Her family has petitioned for a divorce and he has refused.

[Jenny AU-92 0]

I heard the comment made in the interview that he couldn't divorce her because he was the only one who was trying to see that her wishes were carried out. Supposedly there is also an organ donation issue with this as well - he wants to donate her organs. Her husband has not done a lot to make his claim a credible one with the family, so he is also at fault, but I also think the governor and legislature were wrong to get involved - this was a court decision and a family one - separation of powers here, people.

I really think her family is "wishful thinking" at this point - not that I wouldn't be also, in their shoes - my heart goes out to them - but I am such a huge proponent of "quality of life" issues that I think I would hesitate to continue treatment for her if there was the slightest chance that it was truly her wish to be "let go". Brain dead is brain dead and is irreversible. Not rehab out of that one.

[Weagle98 119]

Terri's wishes as stated by Michael was that one time during a movie that was about a brain dead person that truly was a vegetable, she stated "I wouldn't want to live like that". Thats it. No discussion about it. This is what Michael said that she said. In my opinion this is a far cry from truly expressing wishes. How about Lt. Dan from Forrest Gump.... I wouldn't want to live like that.

On a side note not necessarily in this case but in my opinion the court exist to challenge the constitutionality of laws and to apply casses to those laws. If the legislature wants to enact new law to overide a court dicision, this is part of the checks and balances system. Our courts have become way too powerful and they have begun legislating from the bench which is a dangerous position that we are putting ourselves in.

Just my opinion.

[Grumps 3,704]

What a great discussion!!

Just a few more $0.02.

1. My initial post was primarily out of frustration. There are many important issues involved here. In my opinion, the amount of money the doctors and hospitals make from her care should be very far down the list. I am overly sensitive to "doctor bashing." If she really has been in a persistent vegetative state for 12 years, do you think that most doctors would think it is worth around $30-$50 to take care of this woman who they have no hope of getting better?

2. I agree that hospitals (who are not people) may prefer for her to stay alive and in their facility, unless her insurance pays less than most other insurances.

3. Just because you pay higher insurance premiums than would be required for your healthcare doesn't mean that doctors and hospitals don't do a lot of pro bono work.

4. CCTAU, thanks for the welcome! Trust me, I'm no liberal.

5. Jenny, excellent point about the living will. Just know that even with a living will the family ultimately decides what will happen to you. That document serves to let your family know your wishes, but does not mean much, at least initially, if the family does not agree.

[Grumps 3,704]

Oh yeah, I definitely don't think that Jeb Bush's opinion should decide over the wishes of the patient's husband, the patient's family, or of the Florida courts.

[DKW 86 7,441]

Give me a freaking break guys!

I wonder how much pro bono work Tiger Al et al do in their daily lives. I wonder if they would o Pro Bono work for a client that lasted 12 years?

I doubt that either.

Listen guys, leave the medical community alone. They make good money so they can pay Insurance companies and Lawyers.

Now if Doctors produce healthy patients, what do lawyers produce?

Wealthy Lawyers!

[CCTAU 3,349]

Terri's wishes as stated by Michael was that one time during a movie that was about a brain dead person that truly was a vegetable, she stated "I wouldn't want to live like that". Thats it. No discussion about it. This is what Michael said that she said. In my opinion this is a far cry from truly expressing wishes. How about Lt. Dan from Forrest Gump.... I wouldn't want to live like that.

Sometimes as a spouse, that's all you have to go on. I suggest tha all couples discuss this even if it is painful. My wife has had several surgeries and we always make it a point to know how the other feels about this. But if it were my wife and that's all I had to go on, I would have been making this decision long before 12 years. And if someone is so selfish as to keep another living like this just because they can't take the loss, you need help and fast. Because the hurt will never be resolved. Death is something we all must face, but a "living death' is NO LIFE AT ALL.

[Tiger Al 0]

Give me a freaking break guys!

I wonder how much pro bono work Tiger Al et al do in their daily lives. I wonder if they would o Pro Bono work for a client that lasted 12 years?

I doubt that either.

Listen guys, leave the medical community alone. They make good money so they can pay Insurance companies and Lawyers.

Now if Doctors produce healthy patients, what do lawyers produce?

Wealthy Lawyers!

I'm not really sure why you dragged me into this or why you've decided that I am somehow a 'pro bono barometer.'

Will you explain?