2014 Spring Practice - Day 3

[metafour 4,969]

My impression is that as a DC he was solid but not spectacular. (Feel free to challenge my impression with actual facts... I haven't looked into it in depth, just going off what I recall of his work at USC.)

3rd in Total Defense and 11th in Scoring Defense his final year at South Carolina in which they won 11 games with a pretty average offense.

FSU also wanted Ellis Johnson after he was canned at USM. He is a very good DC and he is very highly regarded.

[TexasTiger 13,000]

My impression is that as a DC he was solid but not spectacular. (Feel free to challenge my impression with actual facts... I haven't looked into it in depth, just going off what I recall of his work at USC.)

3rd in Total Defense and 11th in Scoring Defense his final year at South Carolina in which they won 11 games with a pretty average offense.

FSU also wanted Ellis Johnson after he was canned at USM. He is a very good DC and he is very highly regarded.

Them's some good facts.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Add Gus Malzahn's opinion of Coach Johnson. He was the first guy Gus approached for the job and has said in the past that he's Coach Johnson is one of the best defensive minds in the game. Either you don't think Gus knows his butt from a hole in the ground on the defensive side of the ball or you believe his assessment of his first choice at defensive coordinator.

But seriously, look at the impact he had at MSU as well. The year before Ellis started (2003), they gave up 471 points against. His first year they gave up 280. They dropped to 259 the next season. They remained around that 280 level in his next two years, but the point is, he had an immediate impact, and his best year was year two (which isn't entirely uncommon). Very similar progress at South Carolina (note in 2010, they played 14 games so the total points allowed are ballooned, but in the regular season, they were routinely around 240-280).

We gin up more possessions than most teams so our points allowed will be more inflated than it would if we slowed the pace, but Ellis Johnson is going to improve the defense. He does it everywhere he goes. In spite of the drastically increased pace of play, we gave up 6 more points in 2013 as we did in 2012. That's 14 games as opposed to 12. That's a very significant improvement.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Don't get me wrong. There is a ton of room to improve. I'm just saying in 2010, we gave up 301 points in the regular season. Last year, 270. That's the lowest total points allowed in the regular season since Tuberville.

That said, I'd love to see us back to the Tommy-era defenses. For perspective, in 2004, we allowed only 106 points in the regular season. That's why that team is still, in my opinion, the gold standard for Auburn football. Even if you adjusted for pace, that's a ridiculous defensive effort.

We have plenty of room to get better, but Coach Johnson has already started to make strides. I expect that growth to continue this year.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,717]

Tony Stevens looked nice in that video.

[Dual-Threat Rigby 8,717]

You're not gonna hit 106 points again nowadays. But hitting 250 is definitely desirable.

[Timeslider 6 269]

I was so glad when GUS named CEJ the Def Cord. He turned USCe's defense around, think about that USCe's defense was terrible. he took their defense and made them into winners. He took average and undersized linebackers and made them stars with the spur position. He definitely knows what he is doing and i trust him totally. He is a fine coach. Give him time and the talent Auburn has on defense and he will produce a very good defense. :bow:

[dmoney 271]

I think there is a major point that we are missing. That point is the fact that we (offense) run the HUNH. In doing so, our defense is going to face more plays. (Whether our offense goes 3 and out or we have 1 to 3 minute scoring drives)More plays mean more yards and maybe even more points. With these high powered offenses, lets face it we are going to give up more points and yards. So FWIW, I feel the CEJ is the right man for the job. Our guys played better than last year, tackled better than last year, had more interceptions etc.... So lets just sit back and watch CEJ work his magic. FACT: Our offense will hurt our defensive numbers. Lets judge coach less on yards and points but more on wins and adjustments at the half...

[DKW 86 7,440]

http://en.wikipedia...._football_coach)

"Johnson began his coaching career following his graduation from The Citadel in 1975, as the defensive ends coach at his alma mater under Bobby Ross in 1975. In 1976, Johnson accepted an assistant coaching position at Gaffney High School.^[1] He served as an assistant at Gaffney through the 1978 season before taking the defensive coordinator position at Spartanburg High School in 1979. After one season as defensive coordinator at Spartanburg, Johnson was promoted to head coach in 1980 and held the position through the 1981 season.^[2] As head coach he led the Vikings to a pair of playoff appearances and an overall record of 16 wins and eight losses (16–8).^[2] Johnson resigned his position to take the linebackers coach position at The Citadel.^[2]

After his one season at Gardner–Webb, Johnson served as an assistant at Appalachian State, East Carolina and Southern Miss before being hired at Alabama by Gene Stallingsfor the 1990 season. At Alabama, Johnson served as linebackers coach and was on the staff that won the 1992 national championship. He resigned from Alabama after the 1993 season to become the defensive coordinator at Clemson.^[3] After three years at Clemson, Johnson returned to Alabama in January 1997 to serve as defensive coordinator for head coach Mike DuBose.^[4] He served at Alabama through the 2000 season when he was hired as head coach at The Citadel.^[5]

After his three-year tenure with The Citadel, Johnson served as defensive coordinator at both Mississippi State (2004–2007) and South Carolina (2008–2011).^"

IMHO, everywhere CEJ has coached with the exception of Alabama, he has coached with less than stellar talent. MSU, Citadel, Clemson under Head Coach Tommy West.

In 2007, @ MSU, he was the Dc of a MSU team that beat Auburn and uat as well.

You give CEJ some talent, he is one of the best DCs in the nation. He has one downside, his age. He wont be coaching too much longer. He was born in 1951,

[AUFightingSoldiers 685]

Read Ellis Johnson's bio at auburn 's athletic site. The guy is the real deal.

[AUbritt 611]

That first throw from Nick is unreal. I never really get used to seeing a guy his size throw the ball so freaking hard. He's got a stronger arm than any Auburn QB I can remember. It's a little like watching Lincecum early in his career. Small frame but the ball just jumps out of his hand. Physics be damned. Johnson throws a pretty deep ball, but Marshall has a stronger arm. It's not all that close. The only guy I can really compare Nick to Michael Vick. From the speed to the arm strength to the size (unfortunately right down to losing a national title to FSU).

Anyway, a few things, (1) you guys are crazy on Ellis Johnson as a question mark. His resume speaks for itself.

(2) It really speaks to our interior line depth and quality that Johnson and Garner are willing to experiment with Wright and Adams on the edge. It also speaks to our need at DE. I don't mind playing a quick DT at DE, especially on early downs. That's essentially what we did in 2004 by starting Brett Eddins (zero pass rush skills or instincts) and Doug Langenfeld over Groves, Gunn, and McClover. Wright reminds me a bit of Sen-Derrick Marks. If we need situational bodies on the edge, he's a good one. Plus, what does it hurt? Does Wright really need more reps inside? He'll be fine with or without a few extra snaps inside during spring ball.

(3) Owens missing all of spring isn't that significant unless he isn't back by fall. As the only returning starter on the edge, we'd miss him.

(4) Nick looks relaxed. He's going to be fun to watch this year with more weapons on the outside and a dominant line in front.

Good post, mcgu.

[autig90 67]

I think there is a major point that we are missing. That point is the fact that we (offense) run the HUNH. In doing so, our defense is going to face more plays. (Whether our offense goes 3 and out or we have 1 to 3 minute scoring drives)More plays mean more yards and maybe even more points. With these high powered offenses, lets face it we are going to give up more points and yards. So FWIW, I feel the CEJ is the right man for the job. Our guys played better than last year, tackled better than last year, had more interceptions etc.... So lets just sit back and watch CEJ work his magic. FACT: Our offense will hurt our defensive numbers. Lets judge coach less on yards and points but more on wins and adjustments at the half...

Exactly. For those that hope we return to the Tuberville era type of defense, they should quit focusing on that. It's not going to happen with the type of offense we run and that we will often face.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

You can still have that type of defense, so long as you're adjusting for pace of play, number of plays and possessions defended, etc. Even adjusting for extra possessions, I bet that 2004 defense could post a number around 180 points allowed, if not better.

[WarEagle84 0]

I think there is a major point that we are missing. That point is the fact that we (offense) run the HUNH. In doing so, our defense is going to face more plays. (Whether our offense goes 3 and out or we have 1 to 3 minute scoring drives)More plays mean more yards and maybe even more points. With these high powered offenses, lets face it we are going to give up more points and yards. So FWIW, I feel the CEJ is the right man for the job. Our guys played better than last year, tackled better than last year, had more interceptions etc.... So lets just sit back and watch CEJ work his magic. FACT: Our offense will hurt our defensive numbers. Lets judge coach less on yards and points but more on wins and adjustments at the half...

Exactly. For those that hope we return to the Tuberville era type of defense, they should quit focusing on that. It's not going to happen with the type of offense we run and that we will often face.

FYI, I did a little quick research, and the average points per game across all FBS has only gone from 26.63 in 2004 to 29.56 in 2013. There has been a pretty steady upward trend (except for 2006 and 2007 -- NCAA switched to 12-game reg season schedule in '06), but it is a very slight trend (less than 3 points in 10 years). Among the 25 highest scoring teams, the increase has been from 35.29 to 40.41--a bigger increase, but still smaller than I thought it would be.

We do run more plays than we did in '04, and we play more up-tempo offenses--meaning our D will have to defend more plays--but I don't think the data supports that being the sole (or even primary) cause of the point differential we're seeing. I suspect that if we could have put the 2004 defense on the field last year, they would have given up somewhere between 160-180 points.

[Mikey 16,712]

I think there is a major point that we are missing. That point is the fact that we (offense) run the HUNH. In doing so, our defense is going to face more plays. (Whether our offense goes 3 and out or we have 1 to 3 minute scoring drives)More plays mean more yards and maybe even more points. With these high powered offenses, lets face it we are going to give up more points and yards. So FWIW, I feel the CEJ is the right man for the job. Our guys played better than last year, tackled better than last year, had more interceptions etc.... So lets just sit back and watch CEJ work his magic. FACT: Our offense will hurt our defensive numbers. Lets judge coach less on yards and points but more on wins and adjustments at the half...

Exactly. For those that hope we return to the Tuberville era type of defense, they should quit focusing on that. It's not going to happen with the type of offense we run and that we will often face.

FYI, I did a little quick research, and the average points per game across all FBS has only gone from 26.63 in 2004 to 29.56 in 2013. There has been a pretty steady upward trend (except for 2006 and 2007 -- NCAA switched to 12-game reg season schedule in '06), but it is a very slight trend (less than 3 points in 10 years). Among the 25 highest scoring teams, the increase has been from 35.29 to 40.41--a bigger increase, but still smaller than I thought it would be.

We do run more plays than we did in '04, and we play more up-tempo offenses--meaning our D will have to defend more plays--but I don't think the data supports that being the sole (or even primary) cause of the point differential we're seeing. I suspect that if we could have put the 2004 defense on the field last year, they would have given up somewhere between 160-180 points.

I think that's exactly right. Prior to the championship game FSU had given up 139 points in 13 games and I don't think they were as good as our '04 defense. Personnel wise we have a lot farther to go on defense than we do on offense. We don't (yet) have the defensive players our '04 team had.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

We played at a quicker pace than FSU and against far better offensive personnel. That FSU defense looked nothing like the 2004 Auburn defense. It wasn't as good as the 2011 Alabama defense either (or the 2011 LSU defense or the 2003 LSU defense or the 2004 USC defense).

[Rednilla 5,396]

I think that's exactly right. Prior to the championship game FSU had given up 139 points in 13 games and I don't think they were as good as our '04 defense. Personnel wise we have a lot farther to go on defense than we do on offense. We don't (yet) have the defensive players our '04 team had.

The 04 team played four top 10 teams, including the defending national champs, beat one of them twice (Tennessee, whose only other loss that year was to Notre Dame), and in a segment the ESPN Gameday crew did comparing the four undefeated teams (Utah was the fourth, I believe), they were all shocked that AU's strength of schedule was like #4. I think that has something to do with why FSU's defensive numbers were so comparable to our 04 team.

That said, I don't know how much I agree that we won't have at least close to the level of talent on defense that the 04 team, especially on defensive line. I just think it is more to do with how well they'll come together as a unit. That 04 team was something special...remember the way they locked arms coming out of the tunnel every game?

[mcgufcm 4,107]

We won't have a comparable level of talent at all levels. Possibly on the DL, but I'm not convinced that's true either.

Jay Ratliff was a monster at DT for us that year. TJ Jackson was pretty great too. The DEs played in a six-man rotation with three scary pass rushers (McClover, Groves, and Gunn).

The biggest gap between that team and this one (or, really, most other good defenses) is the secondary. Rogers was completely lockdown. Rosegreen was a legit All-American, and Will Herring was a head-hunter. Pitts was the clear weak spot, but he had all the talent in the world. He just didn't have his head screwed on straight. Regardless, think about the SIZE in the defensive backfield. Rogers was 6'1" & around 195, Pitts was 6'3" & 205, Rosegreen was 6' & 200, and Herring was 6'3" & 215ish. They scared the crap out of people (and rightly so). We're nowhere close to that at the moment, and we had legit depth at LB (Travis and AT Williams, Sears, Dede, Graves).

[Tiger 8,830]

Also I think Rogers only allowed like 14% of passes thrown his way to be caught (or some ridiculously low percentage of passes). Teams stopped throwing to his side. The entire defense will look better when an entire 1/3 of the field is completely being ignored by the offense. And that's not a knock on the rest of the D, it just shows how great of a college cornerback Carlos Rogers was.

[Rednilla 5,396]

We won't have a comparable level of talent at all levels. Possibly on the DL, but I'm not convinced that's true either.

Jay Ratliff was a monster at DT for us that year. TJ Jackson was pretty great too. The DEs played in a six-man rotation with three scary pass rushers (McClover, Groves, and Gunn).

The biggest gap between that team and this one (or, really, most other good defenses) is the secondary. Rogers was completely lockdown. Rosegreen was a legit All-American, and Will Herring was a head-hunter. Pitts was the clear weak spot, but he had all the talent in the world. He just didn't have his head screwed on straight. Regardless, think about the SIZE in the defensive backfield. Rogers was 6'1" & around 195, Pitts was 6'3" & 205, Rosegreen was 6' & 200, and Herring was 6'3" & 215ish. They scared the crap out of people (and rightly so). We're nowhere close to that at the moment, and we had legit depth at LB (Travis and AT Williams, Sears, Dede, Graves).

I'm certainly taking nothing away from that 04 defense, because the way I see it, even if this year's D fully lives up to its potential, that's the only way it will be comparable.

Still, starting with defensive line, we have the trio of five star freshmen back from last year, a fully healthy Jeff Whitaker (which is a pretty big impact all by itself), two more senior DTs who have been more than just a little bit productive in Gabe Wright and Angelo Blackson, and a senior DE (Ladarius Owens) who worked his way into the starting rotation last season after spending the first few years of his career switching back and forth between end and linebacker. Adding to depth is former JUCO transfer Ben Bradley, two new four star JUCO trasfers in DeVonte Lambert and Dontavious Russell, as well as redshirt sophomores Tyler Nero (former 4 star) and Gimel President, who did at least get his feet wet last season. And that's not even to mention four star signees Justin Thornton and Andrew Williams.

Lawson, Daniel, and Adams have the makings of being very, very special players, and there is no shortage of depth along the defensive front. Let us not forget that we were rotating 10 men along the line and STILL had some depth behind them.

Linebacker in this system is different. You point out the size of the secondary, but neglect to mention how much the 04 LB corps was classic Tommy Tuberville recruiting: great athletes who tackle very well, but who lacked prototypical size. If the game starts slowing down for Cass and Kris the way I believe it's going to, then we're going to have the hulking monsters in the middle of the second level that the 04 team never did. Beyond them, Garrett, Swain, and Javy Mitchell have all shown flashes of being, at the very least, solid backups (though Garrett and Mitchell might be better suited to either star or boundary safety, due to the scheme and their relative size), plus a freshman class that includes a talented redshirt in Cameron Toney, an underrated De'Shawn Davis and five star Tre Williams. And don't sleep on Kenny Flowers, either, because with a year now in the system, he could be another one who provides quality depth.

In the secondary, it all starts with Joshua Holsey, who showed signs of being the same kind of lockdown corner Rogers was as a freshman, but due to his football IQ and versatility, was moved to free safety last year. Robenson Therezie was honorable mention All-SEC last season, Jonathan Mincy has shown flashes of being an both outstanding cover corner and great at run support, Jermaine Whitehead is a head hunter of a safety, and both TJ Davis and Kamryn Melton showed some promise on the field at times, as well. Jonathan Jones appears poised to take over at the other corner spot (and frankly, he compares favorably to Montae Pitts in that he's a speed demon who has yet to live up too his potential), and the permanent additions of Rudy Ford and Trovon Reed further provide depth. Derrick Moncrief is a stud JUCO signee who is already enrolled and going through spring drills...and then there's the matter of the rest of the recruiting haul, including three 4 star high schoolers and a 3 star JUCO brought in for depth.

Regarding DB size, each of those three incoming freshmen are around 6'0 and will likely be at least close to 200 lbs by the time they see the field; Joseph Turner is listed at 6'2, 190, so he's definitely got the length; Derrick Moncrief is around 6'2-6'3 and weighs an intimidating 225ish; TJ Davis is 6'1, 190; and both Ford and Reed also check in at 6'0 and just under 200...so it isn't as if there are nothing but a bunch of midgets running around in the defensive backfield. Even Therezie, who is only 5'9, is a bundle of lean muscle at 205.

Now, all of that said, I'll reemphasize that all I'm saying is the talent level is there to be at least close to that 04 defense (which, frankly, is quite remarkable in and of itself). There is a LONG way to go before the 2014 bunch can be considered in the same ballpark regarding team defense...but I firmly believe that if they do come together, they have the capacity to be a surprisingly dominant force in their own right.

[cole256 17,084]

It's cool to look for the best out of the players but fact is some of the players aren't as good as some make them to be. It's not their fault and that doesn't make them bad kids or nothing like that and you always look forward to improving but you can't just build a guy up he has to show it on the field

[douggwilliams 61]

This is the first time in quite a while that I am actually worried about losing good players to transfers due to lack of playing time. We are getting there and there fast.

[Threedog79 0]

Guys,

Haven't posted in a while (new baby and all)...but I am STOKED about this upcoming team more than any before! It is an unbelievable amount of talent about to culminate on field. IT IS GO TIME. I expect NOTHING LESS than winning the west this year.

[mcgufcm 4,107]

Renilla, I love your passion for our current defensive personnel.

The bottom line is, I don't see a single player in our defensive backfield that would start on that 2004 team, and I see maybe one LB. Cass McKinzy looks as good as Kevin Sears (who was 240 lbs., by the way, so not all the LBs were small guys). Even if you put the old players in the new system, I don't think Therezie starts.

I'm excited about some of our guys. I think we've got potential, but they are a long, long way from deserving any comparison with 2004. At the moment, it would be a stretch to compare this defensive team to 2008 (with Jerraud Powers, Sen'Derrick Marks, Walt McFadden, Rick/Blanc/Clayton, Tray Blackmon, etc.). I like our potential. I need to see major steps forward from a lot of guys.

Also, let's not compare Josh Holsey, a fine player with great instincts, to the best CB that's ever put on an Auburn jersey. Holsey doesn't have Rogers length or speed. They aren't comparable. I like Josh. I think he's the best CB on the roster (even if he's playing Safety), but that's not a fair comparison. Compare him to Rod Hood or Jerraud Powers or other All-SEC CBs. I'm fine with that. He's just not Carlos Rogers.

[cole256 17,084]

Heck Powers was a shut down corner. IMO he wasn't too far behind Rogers. He was the last corner that played for Auburn that I didn't worry about in coverage.