McDonalds orders 7,000 Order Taking Kiosks

[Mims44 1,867]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

My next question would be.... are you a fan of capitalism?

Capitalism at it's base means a working man/woman being able to achieve top dollar for the fruits of their labor.

If the business is unable to perform without adhering to the demand for 15/hr and have to give it to them, then they deserve it, correct? If they were so easily replaced (as might be the case) then they would not succeed with their demands.

Soooo, they are performing as they should in a capitalist environment... trying to get top dollar for their services.

.... Now you could claim you think they over-reached (which would lead to a bartering problem, not a you should shut up and accept the s*** wages argument)

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

Just so we're clear, let's run some figures here. If a McD's worker got $15 an hour and worked full time...we'll say they work on average 37 hours a week (35-40 hrs/wk is typical in this industry for full timers). The worker is making $28,860 a year.

Which jobs out there get paid less but require MUCH more knowledge and skill? Auto mechanics have a median salary of about $36,000. The highest earners make $61,000 or so and the entry-level folks make about $20,000 or so. The entry level guy might make less, but he's the guy that may change your oil and sweep and clean up around the garage, which I can assure you takes about as much skill and knowledge as learning to tie one's shoes. Plus, he won't stick around for long if Hardee's is paying $8000 a year more for full timers.

Well let me give you a few real life examples that I can speak to first-hand. Currently, my wife is a veterinary technician. It is her job to handle patient visits, run bloodwork, read slides in a microscope, assist in surgeries (including anesthesia), run calculations for medication doses, and handle emergency cases alongside doctors. She makes $13/hour. $15/hour is about the median range where we live for her job.

Also, my first job out of college was as a radio broadcaster and marketing professional for a minor league baseball team. During the season, I worked upwards of 15 hours per day (7 days a week) and worked a standard 40 hour week in the off-season. My job encompassed calling all games on the radio, producing home games from my booth, hiring and managing interns and official scorer, conduct radio interviews, act as the media relations representative for the team year round, give speeches in the community, update the team's website every day with stories, scores, and promotions, and create marketing materials for our sales teams. I made less than $25,000 a year doing this.

Another example would be news reporters just out of college. They often make less than $25,000 for their first few years in the business.

Finally, my mother recently left a job in Montgomery where she was making around $28K per year, the same as the proposed salary of a fast food worker above. She was the sole accountant for the small company she worked for and was in charge of handling their books, which as a non-profit, is not the easiest task in the world.

I think we can all agree that these jobs mentioned take much more skill than that of your average fast food worker. These are just a few examples, and ones that I only call out because I have first hand knowledge of them.

[autigeremt 6,602]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

My next question would be.... are you a fan of capitalism?

Capitalism at it's base means a working man/woman being able to achieve top dollar for the fruits of their labor.

If the business is unable to perform without adhering to the demand for 15/hr and have to give it to them, then they deserve it, correct? If they were so easily replaced (as might be the case) then they would not succeed with their demands.

Soooo, they are performing as they should in a capitalist environment... trying to get top dollar for their services.

the avera

.... Now you could claim you think they over-reached (which would lead to a bartering problem, not a you should shut up and accept the s*** wages argument)

I would argue that your view of capatalism is somewhat misleading. Capitalism is being paid what the market will bear for your labor. Currently, the market devalues the average fast food worker.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never argued that people should "shut up and take their crap wages". My contentions are all based on comparisons of other jobs that pay the same or less than the proposed $15/hour.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

So EMTs can get $20?

[autigeremt 6,602]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

So EMTs can get $20?

Not a chance! Lol. That's why I moved on to greener pastures.....but I miss the work. Best years of my life.

[TitanTiger 20,476]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

This is the distraction the powers that be want right here. Instead of talking about paying people something that is worthy of a human being working hard and trying to live, they get you fighting with each other...jealous that the other guy might be getting something you aren't.

The question shouldn't be "why should a burger flipper get $15/hr when EMTs only get $10?" The question should be, "Why are we devaluing people's hard work and allowing them to get away with paying an EMT only $10/hr? Why is the goal to always pay people as little as you can get away with?"

[icanthearyou 4,462]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

So EMTs can get $20?

Not a chance! Lol. That's why I moved on to greener pastures.....but I miss the work. Best years of my life.

So my "trickle up" theory won't work either? Darn!

Wait a minute. Read Titan's comment above. I think he is on to something.

[TitanTiger 20,476]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

Just so we're clear, let's run some figures here. If a McD's worker got $15 an hour and worked full time...we'll say they work on average 37 hours a week (35-40 hrs/wk is typical in this industry for full timers). The worker is making $28,860 a year.

Which jobs out there get paid less but require MUCH more knowledge and skill? Auto mechanics have a median salary of about $36,000. The highest earners make $61,000 or so and the entry-level folks make about $20,000 or so. The entry level guy might make less, but he's the guy that may change your oil and sweep and clean up around the garage, which I can assure you takes about as much skill and knowledge as learning to tie one's shoes. Plus, he won't stick around for long if Hardee's is paying $8000 a year more for full timers.

Well let me give you a few real life examples that I can speak to first-hand. Currently, my wife is a veterinary technician. It is her job to handle patient visits, run bloodwork, read slides in a microscope, assist in surgeries (including anesthesia), run calculations for medication doses, and handle emergency cases alongside doctors. She makes $13/hour. $15/hour is about the median range where we live for her job.

Also, my first job out of college was as a radio broadcaster and marketing professional for a minor league baseball team. During the season, I worked upwards of 15 hours per day (7 days a week) and worked a standard 40 hour week in the off-season. My job encompassed calling all games on the radio, producing home games from my booth, hiring and managing interns and official scorer, conduct radio interviews, act as the media relations representative for the team year round, give speeches in the community, update the team's website every day with stories, scores, and promotions, and create marketing materials for our sales teams. I made less than $25,000 a year doing this.

Another example would be news reporters just out of college. They often make less than $25,000 for their first few years in the business.

Finally, my mother recently left a job in Montgomery where she was making around $28K per year, the same as the proposed salary of a fast food worker above. She was the sole accountant for the small company she worked for and was in charge of handling their books, which as a non-profit, is not the easiest task in the world.

I think we can all agree that these jobs mentioned take much more skill than that of your average fast food worker. These are just a few examples, and ones that I only call out because I have first hand knowledge of them.

I'll pose the same question to you that I did EMT: Why are we asking the question of why should a fast food worker make $15 an hour? Why aren't we demanding better pay in general for people? Why are we falling for the bull**** line that allows companies to suppress wages to the average guy while executive compensation goes through the roof? Why don't the workers get to share more in the spoils?

[AUUSN 823]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

Just so we're clear, let's run some figures here. If a McD's worker got $15 an hour and worked full time...we'll say they work on average 37 hours a week (35-40 hrs/wk is typical in this industry for full timers). The worker is making $28,860 a year.

Which jobs out there get paid less but require MUCH more knowledge and skill? Auto mechanics have a median salary of about $36,000. The highest earners make $61,000 or so and the entry-level folks make about $20,000 or so. The entry level guy might make less, but he's the guy that may change your oil and sweep and clean up around the garage, which I can assure you takes about as much skill and knowledge as learning to tie one's shoes. Plus, he won't stick around for long if Hardee's is paying $8000 a year more for full timers.

Well let me give you a few real life examples that I can speak to first-hand. Currently, my wife is a veterinary technician. It is her job to handle patient visits, run bloodwork, read slides in a microscope, assist in surgeries (including anesthesia), run calculations for medication doses, and handle emergency cases alongside doctors. She makes $13/hour. $15/hour is about the median range where we live for her job.

Also, my first job out of college was as a radio broadcaster and marketing professional for a minor league baseball team. During the season, I worked upwards of 15 hours per day (7 days a week) and worked a standard 40 hour week in the off-season. My job encompassed calling all games on the radio, producing home games from my booth, hiring and managing interns and official scorer, conduct radio interviews, act as the media relations representative for the team year round, give speeches in the community, update the team's website every day with stories, scores, and promotions, and create marketing materials for our sales teams. I made less than $25,000 a year doing this.

Another example would be news reporters just out of college. They often make less than $25,000 for their first few years in the business.

Finally, my mother recently left a job in Montgomery where she was making around $28K per year, the same as the proposed salary of a fast food worker above. She was the sole accountant for the small company she worked for and was in charge of handling their books, which as a non-profit, is not the easiest task in the world.

I think we can all agree that these jobs mentioned take much more skill than that of your average fast food worker. These are just a few examples, and ones that I only call out because I have first hand knowledge of them.

I'll pose the same question to you that I did EMT: Why are we asking the question of why should a fast food worker make $15 an hour? Why aren't we demanding better pay in general for people? Why are we falling for the bull**** line that allows companies to suppress wages to the average guy while executive compensation goes through the roof? Why don't the workers get to share more in the spoils?

[icanthearyou 4,462]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

Just so we're clear, let's run some figures here. If a McD's worker got $15 an hour and worked full time...we'll say they work on average 37 hours a week (35-40 hrs/wk is typical in this industry for full timers). The worker is making $28,860 a year.

Which jobs out there get paid less but require MUCH more knowledge and skill? Auto mechanics have a median salary of about $36,000. The highest earners make $61,000 or so and the entry-level folks make about $20,000 or so. The entry level guy might make less, but he's the guy that may change your oil and sweep and clean up around the garage, which I can assure you takes about as much skill and knowledge as learning to tie one's shoes. Plus, he won't stick around for long if Hardee's is paying $8000 a year more for full timers.

Well let me give you a few real life examples that I can speak to first-hand. Currently, my wife is a veterinary technician. It is her job to handle patient visits, run bloodwork, read slides in a microscope, assist in surgeries (including anesthesia), run calculations for medication doses, and handle emergency cases alongside doctors. She makes $13/hour. $15/hour is about the median range where we live for her job.

Also, my first job out of college was as a radio broadcaster and marketing professional for a minor league baseball team. During the season, I worked upwards of 15 hours per day (7 days a week) and worked a standard 40 hour week in the off-season. My job encompassed calling all games on the radio, producing home games from my booth, hiring and managing interns and official scorer, conduct radio interviews, act as the media relations representative for the team year round, give speeches in the community, update the team's website every day with stories, scores, and promotions, and create marketing materials for our sales teams. I made less than $25,000 a year doing this.

Another example would be news reporters just out of college. They often make less than $25,000 for their first few years in the business.

Finally, my mother recently left a job in Montgomery where she was making around $28K per year, the same as the proposed salary of a fast food worker above. She was the sole accountant for the small company she worked for and was in charge of handling their books, which as a non-profit, is not the easiest task in the world.

I think we can all agree that these jobs mentioned take much more skill than that of your average fast food worker. These are just a few examples, and ones that I only call out because I have first hand knowledge of them.

I'll pose the same question to you that I did EMT: Why are we asking the question of why should a fast food worker make $15 an hour? Why aren't we demanding better pay in general for people? Why are we falling for the bull**** line that allows companies to suppress wages to the average guy while executive compensation goes through the roof? Why don't the workers get to share more in the spoils?

Because the global labor market has devalued the U.S. labor market? Because we are trapped by the hypocrisy that will not allow us to "exploit" our own but, will gladly exploit others?

[TitanTiger 20,476]

But who devalued it? We did. We allowed our companies to go exploit cheap labor with lax safety and health regulations. And we did it because as consumers, we're addicted to our cheap s*** from China. So we got our cheap stuff, and all the while we were slitting our own throats, suppressing wages for everyone, not just the factory worker. It had ripple effects throughout the market, slowing wage growth for regular folks while the cost of living keeps outpacing it and CEOs and other executives make out like bandits.

[autigeremt 6,602]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

This is the distraction the powers that be want right here. Instead of talking about paying people something that is worthy of a human being working hard and trying to live, they get you fighting with each other...jealous that the other guy might be getting something you aren't.

The question shouldn't be "why should a burger flipper get $15/hr when EMTs only get $10?" The question should be, "Why are we devaluing people's hard work and allowing them to get away with paying an EMT only $10/hr? Why is the goal to always pay people as little as you can get away with?"

I don't know their goal, other than to turn a profit for their shareholders or themselves. Hard work should be rewarded, but the value (or worth) of the job shouldn't be the same for someone who goes to school for 6 months (or two years for a paramedic) as someone who works at a fast food restaurant. One persons hard work might be more valuable than another's?

[icanthearyou 4,462]

But who devalued it? We did. We allowed our companies to go exploit cheap labor with lax safety and health regulations. And we did it because as consumers, we're addicted to our cheap s*** from China. So we got our cheap stuff, and all the while we were slitting our own throats, suppressing wages for everyone, not just the factory worker. It had ripple effects throughout the market, slowing wage growth for regular folks while the cost of living keeps outpacing it and CEOs and other executives make out like bandits.

I agree. We negotiate trade agreements in the same manner we conduct domestic policy. The needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many. It's not just the Republicans and, it's not just the Democrats. It's all of them.

[TitanTiger 20,476]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

This is the distraction the powers that be want right here. Instead of talking about paying people something that is worthy of a human being working hard and trying to live, they get you fighting with each other...jealous that the other guy might be getting something you aren't.

The question shouldn't be "why should a burger flipper get $15/hr when EMTs only get $10?" The question should be, "Why are we devaluing people's hard work and allowing them to get away with paying an EMT only $10/hr? Why is the goal to always pay people as little as you can get away with?"

I don't know their goal, other than to turn a profit for their shareholders or themselves. Hard work should be rewarded, but the value (or worth) of the job shouldn't be the same for someone who goes to school for 6 months (or two years for a paramedic) as someone who works at a fast food restaurant. One persons hard work might be more valuable than another's?

I don't disagree. I would say you should pay and EMT or paramedic more than a fast food worker too. But I also think that someone who works hard full time shouldn't be paid a wage that no one can live on. I don't think it should fall on the taxpayers to make up the difference for companies that want to do business here and take advantage of an orderly, lawful society that lets them set up shop and make money, but do their level best to not share that with the people making it happen on the front lines....instead, hoarding it for a few.

We have to get out of the mentality that workers are just an expense item like the cost of rent, electricity, office equipment and paper for the copy machine. It's fine if you choose a cheaper location, get manic about saving energy or shop around for the best price on paper and print cartridges. No one begrudges any business owner from minimizing his costs on inanimate objects. But when you start treating people like just one more line item on the expense side to be kept as low as possible without causing them all to walk, you're not looking at them as people....human persons with intrinsic dignity and value. You're viewing them as objects - mere means to your own ends.

[icanthearyou 4,462]

In the meantime EMTs on average make $10.00hr.

Someone tell me again why a burger preparer should get $15hr?

This is the distraction the powers that be want right here. Instead of talking about paying people something that is worthy of a human being working hard and trying to live, they get you fighting with each other...jealous that the other guy might be getting something you aren't.

The question shouldn't be "why should a burger flipper get $15/hr when EMTs only get $10?" The question should be, "Why are we devaluing people's hard work and allowing them to get away with paying an EMT only $10/hr? Why is the goal to always pay people as little as you can get away with?"

I don't know their goal, other than to turn a profit for their shareholders or themselves. Hard work should be rewarded, but the value (or worth) of the job shouldn't be the same for someone who goes to school for 6 months (or two years for a paramedic) as someone who works at a fast food restaurant. One persons hard work might be more valuable than another's?

I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. I think it has more to do with the relative values of capital and labor. I think it has more to do with the fact that although we have had economic growth, wages for ALL working people have been in decline since the mid-seventies.

[alexava 6,973]

But who devalued it? We did. We allowed our companies to go exploit cheap labor with lax safety and health regulations. And we did it because as consumers, we're addicted to our cheap s*** from China. So we got our cheap stuff, and all the while we were slitting our own throats, suppressing wages for everyone, not just the factory worker. It had ripple effects throughout the market, slowing wage growth for regular folks while the cost of living keeps outpacing it and CEOs and other executives make out like bandits.

^^^^

[cooltigger21 0]

McDonald's is a first job. Its where teenagers go to get their first job. It's college students wanting to make a little money. It's not for trying to live on and definitely not for raising a family unless you move up into management. This $15/hour stuff is about the unions trying to force their way into this indudtry and then move the wage scale for all the rest of their members in other industries.

[Mims44 1,867]

Can someone please explain the logic of all the people who got butthurt over them asking for 15/hr?

I saw multiple posts across different social/media and of course the one dumba** girl who compared them to military pay... that seemed to float around for months.

Why are people so pissed that others try to improve their pay?

I would say it stems from the value society as a whole places on certain jobs. Most people wouldn't consider flipping burgers to be worthy of $15/hr, particularly when contrasted against many other jobs that get paid less than that but require much more knowledge and skill.

No one is really mad that others are trying to improve their pay. People are upset because others are trying to improve their pay without doing anything to earn more money, other than say "we need more". The people speaking out against this, myself included, will say that working at McDonald's as a cook is not and should not be considered a career and is certainly not worthy of $15/hour. Artificially raising wages to such a high standard does not actually help anyone. It does one of two things: raise prices on other goods such as food, clothing, etc or causes businesses to close. This is already showing itself to be true in Seattle, where the city passed a mandatory $15 minimum wage. Small businesses and local restaurants are closing down because the costs of doing business are now too high.

My next question would be.... are you a fan of capitalism?

Capitalism at it's base means a working man/woman being able to achieve top dollar for the fruits of their labor.

If the business is unable to perform without adhering to the demand for 15/hr and have to give it to them, then they deserve it, correct? If they were so easily replaced (as might be the case) then they would not succeed with their demands.

Soooo, they are performing as they should in a capitalist environment... trying to get top dollar for their services.

the avera

.... Now you could claim you think they over-reached (which would lead to a bartering problem, not a you should shut up and accept the s*** wages argument)

I would argue that your view of capatalism is somewhat misleading. Capitalism is being paid what the market will bear for your labor. Currently, the market devalues the average fast food worker.

Also, please don't put words in my mouth. I never argued that people should "shut up and take their crap wages". My contentions are all based on comparisons of other jobs that pay the same or less than the proposed $15/hour.

Exactly my point, so if the company looks at these demands and decides it is cost efficient to pay them 15/hr and keep them, rather than lose them and hire new workers. Then they get the raise, if it's not worth it then they don't.

And to piggyback on another of your posts Brad, if your wife makes 13/hr, I believe it is her right if she thinks she can get it to go to her boss and say she deserves a 10% increase.... and I would wonder in that situation why outsiders would get angry at her for asking for it as well. (not speaking about you, but there are a lot of people who are actually pissed that these workers had the audacity to ask for better wages)

[Mims44 1,867]

McDonald's is a first job. Its where teenagers go to get their first job. It's college students wanting to make a little money. It's not for trying to live on and definitely not for raising a family unless you move up into management. This $15/hour stuff is about the unions trying to force their way into this indudtry and then move the wage scale for all the rest of their members in other industries.

I've been trying to figure out which billionaire you are....

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Retorting to a few points here, but not quoting so this thing doesn't take up a whole page

A few of you had made the same basic argument of "why aren't we as a society demanding more pay when these companies are making huge profits." Many people who get low pay work for small companies whose owners are most definitely not billionaires. Mims, to answer your question above about my wife asking for a pay increase, she could, but she wouldn't get it. The vet clinic she works at isn't a multi-national corporation. It's a place owned by a husband and wife and serves our community.

Also, I think the anger that is coming from some people is more directed at the idea of demanding a more than doubling of one's pay without having the leverage to do it. They aren't working in deplorable conditions and as I have said, the market suggests that their skill is only worthy of minimum wage. Now, if you ask me do I think we need to raise the minimum wage, I would say yes. About $10/hour sounds right given inflation and the cost of living changes since the threshold was last changed.

I don't agree with cooltigger at all when he says this is about unions trying to get in to fast food. That argument sounds like scare tactics as opposed to actual reasoned thought. I think it's more about someone complaining and then an idea picking up steam through new social channels.

[TitanTiger 20,476]

Retorting to a few points here, but not quoting so this thing doesn't take up a whole page

A few of you had made the same basic argument of "why aren't we as a society demanding more pay when these companies are making huge profits." Many people who get low pay work for small companies whose owners are most definitely not billionaires. Mims, to answer your question above about my wife asking for a pay increase, she could, but she wouldn't get it. The vet clinic she works at isn't a multi-national corporation. It's a place owned by a husband and wife and serves our community.

That's not a bad argument. However, even the places that can afford to do so are not doing it. They still have the mentality that people are basically the same as a computer or a copier or the power bill...it's an inanimate expense item to be kept as low as possible rather than a partner in making a business successful.

Also, I think the anger that is coming from some people is more directed at the idea of demanding a more than doubling of one's pay without having the leverage to do it. They aren't working in deplorable conditions and as I have said, the market suggests that their skill is only worthy of minimum wage. Now, if you ask me do I think we need to raise the minimum wage, I would say yes. About $10/hour sounds right given inflation and the cost of living changes since the threshold was last changed.

Who is "the market" and why does it demean certain skills and jobs that are necessary to a functioning society as not worthy of a pay rate one can actually live on without needing taxpayers to pick up the slack?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Retorting to a few points here, but not quoting so this thing doesn't take up a whole page

A few of you had made the same basic argument of "why aren't we as a society demanding more pay when these companies are making huge profits." Many people who get low pay work for small companies whose owners are most definitely not billionaires. Mims, to answer your question above about my wife asking for a pay increase, she could, but she wouldn't get it. The vet clinic she works at isn't a multi-national corporation. It's a place owned by a husband and wife and serves our community.

That's not a bad argument. However, even the places that can afford to do so are not doing it. They still have the mentality that people are basically the same as a computer or a copier or the power bill...it's an inanimate expense item to be kept as low as possible rather than a partner in making a business successful.

Also, I think the anger that is coming from some people is more directed at the idea of demanding a more than doubling of one's pay without having the leverage to do it. They aren't working in deplorable conditions and as I have said, the market suggests that their skill is only worthy of minimum wage. Now, if you ask me do I think we need to raise the minimum wage, I would say yes. About $10/hour sounds right given inflation and the cost of living changes since the threshold was last changed.

Who is "the market" and why does it demean certain skills and jobs that are necessary to a functioning society as not worthy of a pay rate one can actually live on without needing taxpayers to pick up the slack?

The market is us. We deem that we will not pay more than $1.50 for a McD's hambuger and in the same vain, there are no shortage of people lining up to take those jobs in that industry. Very few of us will pay exorbitant amounts for a vet clinic service, so paying higher wages isn't necessarily feasible. In my old job in baseball, there were 100 other people willing to do the work for the same pay I got, which was terrible. However, because those people would do the gig, I can't go demanding more money.

People are paid based on supply/demand, which is capitalism at it's finest. If you have higher skills that are in demand, then you get more money. Wages go up when people can find a better job using similar skills, thus forcing employers to compete for talent. This is happening right now in the tech industry as employers are having to do everything possible to recruit and retain employees since we, "the market", are demanding more and more of their products and are willing to pay high prices to get them.

And not all jobs are necessary for a functioning society and are certainly not meant to be careers. Anyone who works as a burger cook at a fast food place thinking that it's a career needs to have a reality check.

However, I do believe some very underpaid folks should earn more, starting with teachers, police, and fire/rescue personnel.

[TitanTiger 20,476]

But the market is also the workers. It's not just the consumer and the owner. If they want to band together, unionze, do whatever they have to to draw attention to their situation and demand better pay, more power to them. The world doesn't owe us $5 lunch combos. And if teachers, police, EMTs, or any other group wants to do the same, more power to them as well. I don't get begrudging or getting bent out of shape because one segment of the workforce in a particular industry has managed to finally filter through the bull**** told to them by rich owners and say, "Look, you need people to run this joint. You want reliable folks that will show up on time, work hard, etc. $8/hr isn't going to cut it. I'll be constantly looking for a better job and it's not going to hurt my feelings that much if I lose this one. So all of us are going to use whatever leverage we have, including walking out, to improve our situation." I mean, if you pay people $8 or so an hour, they can get that anywhere. So they really have nothing to lose by trying to make things better for themselves paywise.

Obviously the owners can try to work around it by trying to find new workers, automating some stuff, etc. But this is part of the give and take in the marketplace. Demanding higher pay is not some aberration to the workings of the market, it's part and parcel of it.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

But the market is also the workers. It's not just the consumer and the owner. If they want to band together, unionze, do whatever they have to to draw attention to their situation and demand better pay, more power to them. The world doesn't owe us $5 lunch combos. And if teachers, police, EMTs, or any other group wants to do the same, more power to them as well. I don't get begrudging or getting bent out of shape because one segment of the workforce in a particular industry has managed to finally filter through the bull**** told to them by rich owners and say, "Look, you need people to run this joint. You want reliable folks that will show up on time, work hard, etc. $8/hr isn't going to cut it. I'll be constantly looking for a better job and it's not going to hurt my feelings that much if I lose this one. So all of us are going to use whatever leverage we have, including walking out, to improve our situation." I mean, if you pay people $8 or so an hour, they can get that anywhere. So they really have nothing to lose by trying to make things better for themselves paywise.

Obviously the owners can try to work around it by trying to find new workers, automating some stuff, etc. But this is part of the give and take in the marketplace. Demanding higher pay is not some aberration to the workings of the market, it's part and parcel of it.

Fair enough, but the point in bold is not coming from those people currently demanding more money from fast food restaurants. Otherwise they would have quit already. The demand from them isn't based on anything other than "we want more for the same work" without taking into account that there ARE other people who will take the job they leave. Effectively no extra value is being added to garner the higher wages as their isn't a scarcity in product (people) or additional skills being added by the current workers. Therefore the market settles in on the pay they have. This is what's befuddling to most people.

Personally, I don't understand what happened to "if you want to make more, make yourself more valuable within the workplace". I'm 31 and grew up in a 900 square foot home with a single mom in Montgomery. I had to work for everything since I was 15 and gained knowledge/skills along the way which bettered my life and have allowed me to make a nice living now. But these things took sacrifices and a willingness to learn new things, often times while earning minimum wage or just above it. After doing all of this, I now have skills that are in-demand and hold a job that a high-school student can't come in off street and execute.