I stand with Chette!!

[homersapien 11,388]

It all boils down to this:

Atheists want a "Christian" free world. How many other beliefs have they gone after? It's not that difficult to see their agenda.

Yep

I love it when the persecution complex freak flag is raised!

Especially when it's raised by the same folks who would call us a "Christian nation".

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

People need to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In no place does it say there can't be any religious influence. The only statement is that congress can't establish a state religion. Also read the letters and notes the framers of the constitution wrote and how they conducted their own meetings with prayers. So how any Judge based on what is written in the Constitution and the fact that the framers themselves had prayers when they met can only rule no religious influence, does it because of personal bias not based on the constitution.

[Maverick.AU 13,281]

Chimes, I usually agree with u on everything but I have to slightly disagree on this, and u know I don't mean this brash towards you in any way but I don't see a problem with chette. I know a lot of people with other belief systems that during prayers do their own reflections or get lost in their thoughts and it works for them. I also feel like these players could go to chette and just talk like men and if they are honest with him about their beliefs I think he would respect that and support them in other ways.

[finxster 4]

People need to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In no place does it say there can't be any religious influence. The only statement is that congress can't establish a state religion. Also read the letters and notes the framers of the constitution wrote and how they conducted their own meetings with prayers. So how any Judge based on what is written in the Constitution and the fact that the framers themselves had prayers when they met can only rule no religious influence, does it because of personal bias not based on the constitution.

"I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should 'make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,' thus building a wall of separation between Church & State."

[AUDub 11,153]

People need to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In no place does it say there can't be any religious influence. The only statement is that congress can't establish a state religion. Also read the letters and notes the framers of the constitution wrote and how they conducted their own meetings with prayers. So how any Judge based on what is written in the Constitution and the fact that the framers themselves had prayers when they met can only rule no religious influence, does it because of personal bias not based on the constitution.

I think I just heard the faint laughter of a constitutional law professor off in the distance.

Take it up with Jefferson and Madison.

[chimesAU 89]

People need to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. In no place does it say there can't be any religious influence. The only statement is that congress can't establish a state religion. Also read the letters and notes the framers of the constitution wrote and how they conducted their own meetings with prayers. So how any Judge based on what is written in the Constitution and the fact that the framers themselves had prayers when they met can only rule no religious influence, does it because of personal bias not based on the constitution.

"Religion and Government are certainly very different Things, instituted for different Ends; the design of one being to promote our temporal Happiness; the design of the other to procure the Favour of God, and thereby the Salvation of our Souls. While these are kept distinct and apart, the Peace and welfare of Society is preserved, and the Ends of both are answered. By mixing them together, feuds, animosities and persecutions have been raised, which have deluged the World in Blood, and disgraced human Nature."

-Founding Father John Dickinson

The state can't establish a religion, nor can it sponsor "religious exercise".

[chimesAU 89]

Chimes, I usually agree with u on everything but I have to slightly disagree on this, and u know I don't mean this brash towards you in any way but I don't see a problem with chette. I know a lot of people with other belief systems that during prayers do their own reflections or get lost in their thoughts and it works for them. I also feel like these players could go to chette and just talk like men and if they are honest with him about their beliefs I think he would respect that and support them in other ways.

I do see where you're coming from and appreciate your well tempered response. I knew when I posted that that 99.9999% of the posters here would disagree with me but I did hope to have a somewhat rational discussion. +1 to you

[AuburnNTexas 7,153]

The work-around has always been that Chette is not employed by the university or the athletic dept and participation in his program is completely voluntary.

It always seems strange to me that some people who believe God to be false find themselves so concerned that others would believe otherwise. Why wouldn't they just pity us for our beliefs or shake their super smart liberal heads in disgust. What purpose does attacking it serve?

Now if a player was actively unable to express his beliefs then that's another thing...

This is where common sense and religious liberty should trump this nutty lawyer-Ruffic liberalism that is destroying our country.

That is not the argument here though. The organization is called The Freedom From Religion Foundation (FFRF), and their goal is to have complete separation of church and state (as is set forth through the First Amendment). Their argument in demanding Chette be removed is that even though he is not directly employed by the university, he still clearly works for them. He is given access that a normal volunteer wouldn't be given, simply because he is a Chaplain, and they argue that the preferential treatment he receives solely based on his religious choice is unconstitutional because Auburn is a public university. To an extent, I think their argument is well founded, though I don't agree with it. From what I have seen and experienced, Chette (or any chaplain for that matter) does not serve to force their beliefs on the players, but rather be a resource for the players and a religious advocate.

They also go into some speculation about players feeling that they have to "Pray to Play", but honestly I think that hurts their argument more than it helps it. Legally, I can understand their concern about the constitutionality of Chette's position (even if I don't agree with it), but the coaching staff's job relies very heavily on winning football games, and I can't imagine that they wouldn't put the best players on the field simply because they had a different religious belief. It's plausible, but definitely not probable.

"The Bill of Rights : Full Text

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It says Congress can make no law to establish a Religion. The Framers themselves had Religious people lead them in prayer while drafting the Constitution. It amazes me that this simple statement written by people who had no problem with having prayers at their meeting can be interpreted that there can be no religious influence that people who say that there has to be a total separation ignore that the people who made the statement didn't mean that which can be seen by their own actions.\

Basically Congress can't declare a National Religion is all the first amendment actually states. It was there because as we saw in the past and still see in some countries it required for every body to be Catholic or Church of England or in many Arab Countries Sunni or Shiite Moslem. We ignore both the actual statement in the First Amendment and the writing's of Madison who wrote it when we say there has to be a total 100% separation of Church and state.

[wareagle13 88]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

[Weegle777 78]

It's so hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that many of you really do think this way.

Think in what way?

Give us a damn break...even God wants yall to shut the hell up...

Matthew 6

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Probably one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on this subject.

[aujeff11 6,243]

This is why I included this topic into the political forum before this topic was ever created in the football forum. All politics and not even remotely football related.

[AUwent 3,754]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

<Clap, clap, clap, clap, clap>

[chimesAU 89]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Quite a refreshing viewpoint. Great post, wareagle13.

[OnthePlains 2,014]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Well said, reasoned response without ridiculing or making fun of people of faith. I agree with all you said. I share my faith with others because I believe Christ commanded me to do so and because I want others to be saved, however, I will not force it on anyone against their will. If they are open to it then I will share, if they say hey man back off then I will back off. I can respect others views without ridicule and thats all I expect in return.

[finxster 4]

It's so hard for me to wrap my mind around the fact that many of you really do think this way.

Think in what way?

Give us a damn break...even God wants yall to shut the hell up...

Matthew 6

5 "And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Probably one of the most ignorant posts I have seen on this subject.

Please enlighten us all with another single sentence answers...

[Grumps 3,704]

I think the whole reason that the freedom from religion people do stuff like this is to encourage Christians to act like idiots and thus weaken their testimonies. Unfortunately, in this case it seems to be working.

[chimesAU 89]

I think the whole reason that the freedom from religion people do stuff like this is to encourage Christians to act like idiots and thus weaken their testimonies. Unfortunately, in this case it seems to be working.

Oh snap

[Auburn4life 24]

Give us a damn break...even God wants yall to shut the hell up...

Matthew 6

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

it must be fun to take Scripture and just use it out of context? And here we are just talking about praying, not evangelizing. In the scripture you posted. He is talking about praying in public for your own gratification or to be seen doing it, again for your own pleasure (to be honored by others), not that no one should ever pray in public, but should be done to solely bring glory to God (not be selfish but selfless).

I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. (1 Timothy 2:8)

Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:15 NKJV “And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”

[finxster 4]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Having only a christian religious advisor in itself constitutes a problem. Having open prayer with the whole team forces those not wanting to participate, to either have to participate or have a stigma placed on them. If a student needs to seek christian council, there are student organizations on campus that have that purpose, and there are 100 churches withing a few blocks of any place you stand. He should not have an auburn.edu email address, he should not have an office on campus, he should not be allowed to perpetuate the myth of a christian god.

[finxster 4]

Give us a damn break...even God wants yall to shut the hell up...

Matthew 6

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

it must be fun to take Scripture and just use it out of context? And here we are just talking about praying, not evangelizing. In the scripture you posted. He is talking about praying in public for your own gratification or to be seen doing it, again for your own pleasure (to be honored by others), not that no one should ever pray in public, but should be done to solely bring glory to God (not be selfish but selfless).

I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting. (1 Timothy 2:8)

Matthew 28:19-20 NKJV

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

Mark 16:15 NKJV “And He said to them, ‘Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.'”

Funny how an omnipotent being could have so many inconsistencies and hypocrisies in one book that is supposed to be perfect...

[chimesAU 89]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Having only a christian religious advisor in itself constitutes a problem. Having open prayer with the whole team forces those not wanting to participate, to either have to participate or have a stigma placed on them. If a student needs to seek christian council, there are student organizations on campus that have that purpose, and there are 100 churches withing a few blocks of any place you stand. He should not have and auburn.edu email address, he should not have an office on campus, he should not be allowed to perpetuate the myth of a christian god.

I was 100% with you until the last part. Never let emotion get in the way of a good argument.

[Auburn4life 24]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

+1

[finxster 4]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Having only a christian religious advisor in itself constitutes a problem. Having open prayer with the whole team forces those not wanting to participate, to either have to participate or have a stigma placed on them. If a student needs to seek christian council, there are student organizations on campus that have that purpose, and there are 100 churches withing a few blocks of any place you stand. He should not have and auburn.edu email address, he should not have an office on campus, he should not be allowed to perpetuate the myth of a christian god.

I was 100% with you until the last part. Never let emotion get in the way of a good argument.

...should have said "from the program, internally."

OH well.

[chimesAU 89]

Give us a damn break...even God wants yall to shut the hell up...

Matthew 6

5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words.8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

it must be fun to take Scripture and just use it out of context?

You do know that Christians do this more than anyone, right? Not to mention picking and choosing which scriptures apply to them.

[wareagle13 88]

The nit and gritty of the argument boils down to this. And i will disclaim that i am an atheist, who does not give a rat's butt what religion you practice or do not practice. Auburn is a publicly funded institution, (read that they receive grants and funding from state and federal government programs). The treatment of Brother Chette crosses absolutely zero lines, UNTIL their is noted and evident preferential treatment towards players who partake in his services, forced adherence to attending brother Chette's program, negative treatment of those who do not partake in his services, negative treatment of those who seek service outside of Brother Chette, and the denial of other religious assembly's seeking similar access to the program.

The FFRF has provided zero evidence that any of those lines have been crossed, and as such I have no problem with the services FCA and Brother Chette provide to our football team. What many in this thread, on this board, in this state, and in this nation need to remember is that disagreement is not persecution. If when i have a kid, and a teacher/coach/leader of his forces him to pray during class/game/event and he doesn't want to, I'm gonna raise Hell (pun intended) not because i think they are wrong in their beliefs, but because they are forcing said belief on someone who is not receptive to it. I will educate my children on religion, and if they seek it that's all the more power to them, but it will not be forced upon them, by myself, or anyone who holds a leadership position above him.

Having only a christian religious advisor in itself constitutes a problem. Having open prayer with the whole team forces those not wanting to participate, to either have to participate or have a stigma placed on them. If a student needs to seek christian council, there are student organizations on campus that have that purpose, and there are 100 churches withing a few blocks of any place you stand. He should not have an auburn.edu email address, he should not have an office on campus, he should not be allowed to perpetuate the myth of a christian god.

If you read the last tenant I expressed in the first paragraph you will understand where, constitutionally, auburn is ok. As far as I, or you, or anyone else knows, no other religious assembly has requested access to the same degree as FCA. But should a similar group request access and be denied, then an appropriate lawsuit will be filed and they will either be granted access, or the removal of all access for eligious oriented groups will cease. Until then, there is no legal imperative for auburn to act on this matter.