Should we believe them ? Take them at their own words ?

[AURaptor 1,137]

Or are they lying ? 

 

But I'm the ' intolerant one ', huh? I'm the bigot ?  The " Islamophobe " . ? 

Help me to undestand. If you can. 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

" But I'm the ' intolerant one ', huh? I'm the bigot ?  The " Islamophobe " . ?"

 

Yes, you are. 

[AURaptor 1,137]

13 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

" But I'm the ' intolerant one ', huh? I'm the bigot ?  The " Islamophobe " . ?"

 

Yes, you are. 

How so ? THEY are the ones who want to put to death gays , infidels and adulterers. Not I.

Explain your answer. 

 

Replace those in the audience with white robe wearin' Klan members, and the speaker wearing a white pointy hat. 

 What changes ? 

[homersapien 11,812]

What would you do that we aren't already doing Raptor?

[Grumps 3,706]

ICHY and homer, I am just curious, did you two find that video interesting or enlightening? I thought it was fascinating. I am ignorant as to what the goals of Muslims are. Thanks for posting, Raptor.

I think it is important to note that the speaker and the audience agreed that the punishment listed in the Quran is the best punishment, but they did not say that they would administer that punishment if it was against the law of the country where they reside.

[AURaptor 1,137]

Go back and look at the part where the guy is saying that men and women should not sit together. And the man and women sitting next to each other start pointing their fingers like " I was here first , I'm not sitting next to you - you're sitting next to me !"

 

 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

3 hours ago, AURaptor said:

How so ? THEY are the ones who want to put to death gays , infidels and adulterers. Not I.

Explain your answer. 

 

Replace those in the audience with white robe wearin' Klan members, and the speaker wearing a white pointy hat. 

 What changes ? 

You are very much like the guy in the video.

[AURaptor 1,137]

10 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

You are very much like the guy in the video.

You're ignoring the question, and for good reason. 

 

And I categorically reject your premise. 

[homersapien 11,812]

3 hours ago, Grumps said:

ICHY and homer, I am just curious, did you two find that video interesting or enlightening? I thought it was fascinating. I am ignorant as to what the goals of Muslims are. Thanks for posting, Raptor.

I think it is important to note that the speaker and the audience agreed that the punishment listed in the Quran is the best punishment, but they did not say that they would administer that punishment if it was against the law of the country where they reside.

Who was the guy talking and why should we care?  Should I take any given speaker for any given religion and assume he is representative of that religion?  What if I am inclined to portray that religion in the worst light, due to my own personal fear or hate?

What's the purpose of this thread?

Raptor?

[AURaptor 1,137]

He's a Muslim telling you what you absolutely refuse to hear, apparently. 

And did you look at the size of that audience ? Self identified Muslims. All 

Not some crazy , deranged zealots, off in the wilds of Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq. Not so fringe band of cut throats, but by the looks of them, pretty mainstream. 

And not even wearing any hoods.  Why should they hide    

That's who they are.  THAT is the point of this thread, Homer. 

[homersapien 11,812]

5 hours ago, AURaptor said:

He's a Muslim telling you what you absolutely refuse to hear, apparently. 

And did you look at the size of that audience ? Self identified Muslims. All 

Not some crazy , deranged zealots, off in the wilds of Afghanistan, Pakistan or Iraq. Not so fringe band of cut throats, but by the looks of them, pretty mainstream. 

And not even wearing any hoods.  Why should they hide    

That's who they are.  THAT is the point of this thread, Homer. 

As far as I can tell, the Muslims in  my community don't seem like that.   1)  Are you saying I'm wrong?  

2) Are you saying they are all like that, regardless of where they are, or who they are?

3) Should we expand our concerns to all Muslims?

[AURaptor 1,137]

They don't SEEM like that ? How do you know? Do they say they aren't ? If they not like that... Good! Glad to hear it. 

 

 I'm saying that you should listen to who "they" say they are. 

 

Do do what you want. 

[homersapien 11,812]

28 minutes ago, AURaptor said:

They don't SEEM like that ? How do you know? Do they say they aren't ? If they not like that... Good! Glad to hear it. 

 I'm saying that you should listen to who "they" say they are. 

Do do what you want. 

They had an open house at their mosque and they were very welcoming.  They sound and talk like regular Americans.  My wife's dentist is Muslim and she likes her very much.

You sound like a raving lunatic.  Have you been drinking?

[AURaptor 1,137]

9 hours ago, homersapien said:

They had an open house at their mosque and they were very welcoming.  They sound and talk like regular Americans.  My wife's dentist is Muslim and she likes her very much.

You sound like a raving lunatic.  Have you been drinking?

Wait, how do I sound like a raving lunatic, yet the Muslims who ALL say they're fine w/ killing gays doesn't really phase you all that much? I'm just the messenger, and yet you have a stronger reaction to me than the ones in the video ? 

 

I've not been drinking, but have you ? Again?

 

- btw - I have more examples. All you have to do is look at what they say themselves. Don't get twisted at me 

[icanthearyou 4,468]

Look at the extremist attempting to create a narrative based on fear, anger, ideology.  Interesting.

[Grumps 3,706]

So, homer, do you think that the guy in the video and the congregation are radical? Do you think they are mainstream? I don't know. That's why I find the video interesting. I don't recall the speaker saying anything particularly radical. He says he agrees with the Quran, which certainly makes sense.

[homersapien 11,812]

6 hours ago, AURaptor said:

Wait, how do I sound like a raving lunatic, yet the Muslims who ALL say they're fine w/ killing gays doesn't really phase you all that much? I'm just the messenger, and yet you have a stronger reaction to me than the ones in the video ? 

Can you rephrase that question?  It doesn't make any sense to me.

[homersapien 11,812]

1 hour ago, Grumps said:

So, homer, do you think that the guy in the video and the congregation are radical? Do you think they are mainstream? I don't know. That's why I find the video interesting. I don't recall the speaker saying anything particularly radical. He says he agrees with the Quran, which certainly makes sense.

If he is trying to make a case that stoning people is a reasonable recourse to (whatever), then yes, I would say he is a radical.

It's no different that a radical Christian making a biblical case for killing or persecuting homosexuals. 

[AURaptor 1,137]

4 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If he is trying to make a case that stoning people is a reasonable recourse to (whatever), then yes, I would say he is a radical.

It's no different that a radical Christian making a biblical case for killing or persecuting homosexuals. 

You DO know there are Muslim countries - today - that officially sanction killing of gays, stoning of ' loose ' women, and the like. But hey, the Christians.... 

[AURaptor 1,137]

12 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Can you rephrase that question?  It doesn't make any sense to me.

No, it makes perfect sense. 

[Grumps 3,706]

2 minutes ago, homersapien said:

If he is trying to make a case that stoning people is a reasonable recourse to (whatever), then yes, I would say he is a radical.

It's no different that a radical Christian making a biblical case for killing or persecuting homosexuals. 

If the Quran says that the appropriate punishment for a particular offense is stoning, and if moderate Muslims believe in the Quran, then it would seem that the speaker is a radical from a human perspective and a moderate from the perspective of Islam, which I think might be Raptor's point.

I agree with your comment about radical Christians, though I would argue that there is not a Biblical case for killing or persecuting homosexuals from a Christian perspective. I  would argue that the punishments in the Bible such as stoning adulterers, etc. were Old Testament laws that applied to the Hebrews while God was living among them in the tabernacle/temple. But, if a "Christian" wanted to use those OT laws to justify stoning someone then it was be safe to call that a radical view.

[icanthearyou 4,468]

1 hour ago, AURaptor said:

You DO know there are Muslim countries - today - that officially sanction killing of gays, stoning of ' loose ' women, and the like. But hey, the Christians.... 

Your argument seems to me to be typical of just how disingenuous you are.

Perhaps you would have more credibility and, be taken seriously if, you were as invested in supporting homosexuals as you are, condemning all Muslims? 

Why do you wish to deny the fact that Christianity has a history of persecuting homosexuality?  Is there a positive or negative correlation between the persecution of homosexuals and the political/social influence of the Christian Church in western societies?  Which political ideology would be more directly tied to persecuting homosexuals?

You do realize that there is evidence that totally refutes your anecdotal video?  For example, when people in SA, UAE, Jordan have been polled, less than 50% believe that homosexuality should be illegal.

You are exactly who you are railing against.  You are an intolerant bigot who wishes to characterize/demonize/persecute an entire group based on the worst actions of their membership and, your own fears, anger, prejudice, BS ideology.  You have made it apparent that you have little use for those who do not look, act, think as you do.  Only an idiot would not recognize you for who your are.  Only a fellow bigot would refuse to recognize you for who you are.

I don't know which one describes Gumps.

[AURaptor 1,137]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

Your argument seems to me to be typical of just how disingenuous you are. ( Not an argument, it's a fact ) 

Perhaps you would have more credibility and, be taken seriously if, you were as invested in supporting homosexuals as you are, condemning all Muslims? ( homosexuals need my support ? How so ? ) 

Why do you wish to deny the fact that Christianity has a history of persecuting homosexuality?  Is there a positive or negative correlation between the persecution of homosexuals and the political/social influence of the Christian Church in western societies?  Which political ideology would be more directly tied to persecuting homosexuals? ( non sequitur to the issue at hand. No Xtians are killing gays as a rule of state sponsored religious punishment ) 

You do realize that there is evidence that totally refutes your anecdotal video?  For example, when people in SA, UAE, Jordan have been polled, less than 50% believe that homosexuality should be illegal. ( But it IS illegal there. Thanks for proving my point ) 

You are exactly who you are railing against.  You are an intolerant bigot who wishes to characterize/demonize/persecute an entire group based on the worst actions of their membership and, your own fears, anger, prejudice, BS ideology.  You have made it apparent that you have little use for those who do not look, act, think as you do.  Only an idiot would not recognize you for who your are.  Only a fellow bigot would refuse to recognize you for who you are.

I don't know which one describes Gumps.

If being intolerant of intolerant bigots who support killing of gays and stoning to death adulterous women... I plead guilty.  But that's hardly being 'exactly ' who I am railing against.  

[homersapien 11,812]

Other than your strong support of gays and adulterous women, what's this thread about?

[SaltyTiger 8,240]

Why do you wish to deny the fact that Christianity has a history of persecuting homosexuality?

How much history? Please quote that Bible verse.