Who's to Blame for the Shutdown?

[TitanTiger 20,511]

The polling numbers don't really support the idea that Schumer caved because the people were blaming his party.  What I really think you saw was that a handful of Democrats who are from states that Trump won *were* at risk for being blamed.  The rest of the Dems were probably fine holding out a little longer.  So rather than hang Doug Jones, Claire McCaskill and others like that out to dry, they let them off the hook.

[alexava 6,973]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

Actually, most Americans - by far - support the Democratic position on DACA.

All this "favoring illegals over ......"  schtick is pure Republican spin trying to demonize the Democrat's goals for DACA.  Sooner or later, Republicans are going to have to take a position and deal with it.

This is why i hate republicans.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

14 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Well, that's because the previous two shutdowns were all initiated by the Republicans.  This one wasn't.  I wonder why the Democrats didn't get all the blame for forcing this one like the Republicans did on the 2013 and 1995 ones?

I'm thinking because Trump is so visible and called himself a "dealmaker" so often, that when a deal didn't come to fruition, the public blamed him.  It doesn't help his case when you have Republican Senators on record as saying they didn't know where the President stood on certain key issues just prior to the shutdown.

31 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I would like to see a poll that simply asked "who do you blame more for the shut down, Democrats or Republicans?

I don't think you could in this instance because so many Congressional Republicans are reluctant to embrace Trump and some are vocally opposed to him on many issues.  Because he is a 1/3 of this equation, you almost have to include him in the poll here.

[augolf1716 21,304]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

This is why i hate republicans.

Serious question do you hate all republicans? Hate is an awfully big word to use. 

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

2 hours ago, alexava said:

This is why i hate republicans.

I do not believe you Alex.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Now Schumer is reneging on his wall offer. What a dork he is.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/white-house-fires-back-at-schumers-phony-and-bogus-negotiations-after-wall-funding-offer-withdrawn.html

[homersapien 11,453]

33 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Now Schumer is reneging on his wall offer. What a dork he is.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/white-house-fires-back-at-schumers-phony-and-bogus-negotiations-after-wall-funding-offer-withdrawn.html

So did Trump accept it? 

 I missed it.

[alexava 6,973]

2 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Serious question do you hate all republicans? Hate is an awfully big word to use. 

No I don't hate all republicans..it is a big word and shouldn't be used like this. For that I must do better. But in the context I am using it I hate many democrats too. 

I could go into more details on what gripes me in homer's post I highlighted but IPad is acting up and I'm trying to go to sleep. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

14 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Now Schumer is reneging on his wall offer. What a dork he is.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/white-house-fires-back-at-schumers-phony-and-bogus-negotiations-after-wall-funding-offer-withdrawn.html

He's not "reneging."  The offer was made in the midst of the negotiations leading up to the shutdown, but the WH and the GOP didn't go for it so it came off the table.  At least for now. 

Would you please make at least some attempt at objectivity and stop making me defend politicians I don't even like from your unfair mischaracterizations?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

26 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

He's not "reneging."  The offer was made in the midst of the negotiations leading up to the shutdown, but the WH and the GOP didn't go for it so it came off the table.  At least for now. 

Would you please make at least some attempt at objectivity and stop making me defend politicians I don't even like from your unfair mischaracterizations?

I simply posted a news article. Is every poster required to  verify the accuracy of everything they link? This was also reported on several news shows yesterday.  You say he isn't reneging. Still appears that way to me. That's my OPINION so you don't have always try to debunk it.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

I simply posted a news article.

No you didn't.  Otherwise it would have merely been a link with no further comment.  You went on to say " Now Schumer is reneging on his wall offer. What a dork he is."  That is what I was speaking of as your mischaracterization.

 

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

Is every poster required to  verify the accuracy of everything they link? This was also reported on several news shows yesterday.  You say he isn't reneging. Still appears that way to me. That's my OPINION so you don't have always try to debunk it.

I'm about this close to banning you from every uttering the words "that's my opinion" ever again.  You treat it as some sort of blanket excuse to say anything and whine about pushback on it.

I don't care if it's your opinion.  Opinions are just as subject to critique as anything else, especially when they don't line up with known facts.  Get over it.  I'm asking you to step up your game.  Stop approaching every news items from the standpoint of how you can use it to take a swipe at your political foes.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

10 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

No you didn't.  Otherwise it would have merely been a link with no further comment.  You went on to say " Now Schumer is reneging on his wall offer. What a dork he is."  That is what I was speaking of as your mischaracterization.

 

I'm about this close to banning you from every uttering the words "that's my opinion" ever again.  You treat it as some sort of blanket excuse to say anything and whine about pushback on it.

I don't care if it's your opinion.  Opinions are just as subject to critique as anything else, especially when they don't line up with known facts.  Get over it.  I'm asking you to step up your game.  Stop approaching every news items from the standpoint of how you can use it to take a swipe at your political foes.

Sorry . I thought it was related to the thread topic and Schumer was a key player. I sure don't mind you or anyone pushing back on my opinion about anything. Seems to me a large percent of posts made here are opinions about one's political views.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

3 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Sorry . I thought it was related to the thread topic and Schumer was a key player. I sure don't mind you or anyone pushing back on my opinion about anything. Seems to me a large percent of posts made here are opinions about one's political views.

Of course they are.  And as such, they are open to debate, rebuttal, pushback, and critique.  But this "it's my OPINION" reply you love to throw back is irrelevant.  No one cares.  It makes no difference.  What I said about it stands regardless.  It doesn't give you any more leeway to mischaracterize things.

I have no problem with the link itself, but I was pushing back on portraying it as Schumer somehow welshing on a deal or backing out of a promise.  I know Trump would love to have you and everyone else view it that way, but it's dishonest bull****.

What I'd like to see from you is some indication you can think objectively instead of just being another megaphone for his Reality Distortion Field.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

4 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Of course they are.  And as such, they are open to debate, rebuttal, pushback, and critique.  But this "it's my OPINION" reply you love to throw back is irrelevant.  No one cares.  It makes no difference.  What I said about it stands regardless.  It doesn't give you any more leeway to mischaracterize things.

I have no problem with the link itself, but I was pushing back on portraying it as Schumer somehow welshing on a deal or backing out of a promise.  I know Trump would love to have you and everyone else view it that way, but it's dishonest bull****.

What I'd like to see from you is some indication you can think objectively instead of just being another megaphone for his Reality Distortion Field.

Obviously we disagree.......very often. But it's your forum.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

Back to the OP. This today from Real Clear Politics. Just one more for the pot of blame.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/24/democrats_own_the_shutdown_and_will_pay_a_price_136081.html

[TitanTiger 20,511]

17 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Back to the OP. This today from Real Clear Politics. Just one more for the pot of blame.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2018/01/24/democrats_own_the_shutdown_and_will_pay_a_price_136081.html

As much as this article wants to hint that the public blames the Democrats for it, it stops short of actually saying that.  The only polling data it relies on simply says the majority of Americans wanted the gov't to remain open.  Of course we know the reason why it stops short:  all the polling indicates that more people blame the GOP for it than they do Democrats, which is a stunning reversal from times past (2013 and 1995) when the party that dug in their heels and "initiated" the shutdown got hammered with the blame.

Frankly, I hope that this third attempt by one party or the other to use the threat of a shutdown will be the last one that is seriously attempted.  It doesn't work.  Both sides need to get better at negotiating in good faith. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

15 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

.

Frankly, I hope that this third attempt by one party or the other to use the threat of a shutdown will be the last one that is seriously attempted.  It doesn't work.  Both sides need to get better at negotiating in good faith. 

We agree. Yea!!

[AUDub 11,184]

17 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

Frankly, I hope that this third attempt by one party or the other to use the threat of a shutdown will be the last one that is seriously attempted.  It doesn't work.  Both sides need to get better at negotiating in good faith. 

Remember when politics was the art of compromise? Me either. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

23 minutes ago, AUDub said:

Remember when politics was the art of compromise? Me either. 

I do remember it.  It happened some between Reagan and Congress.  But then, Reagan (whatever faults you might find in him) wasn't a lying,  egotistical loon.  And Congress had people who genuinely loved the country even when they disagreed with the other side like Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

[WDG 109]

Marc Thiessen: Democrats got rolled this week. They can blame Barack Obama
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/01/25/marc-thiessen-democrats-got-rolled-this-week-can-blame-barack-obama.html

 

 

 

 

 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

Merged that last post with the ongoing shutdown discussion.  Didn't see the need for a separate thread just to link to another opinion piece.

[autigeremt 6,715]

On 1/23/2018 at 4:10 PM, alexava said:

This is why i hate republicans.

THIS is why I hate both parties. The rule of law is now used as a punch line for the next campaign and the human tragedy is exploited for political gain (the Constitution says hold my beer).

[alexava 6,973]

1 hour ago, autigeremt said:

THIS is why I hate both parties. The rule of law is now used as a punch line for the next campaign and the human tragedy is exploited for political gain (the Constitution says hold my beer).

My point. The quote at hand could easily be turned around used the other way. Probably has been. 

[TitanTiger 20,511]

8 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

More blame game. It is as divided as everything else.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2018/01/25/marc-thiessen-democrats-got-rolled-this-week-can-blame-barack-obama.html

https://www.aufamily.com/forums/topic/161252-whos-to-blame-for-the-shutdown/?do=findComment&comment=2814191