Who's to Blame for the Shutdown?

[HVAU 673]

29 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Dems/Schumer blink. Maybe they got the message they were perceived as the ones responsible for the shutdown?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/22/senate-breaks-dem-filibuster-clearing-way-to-end-government-shutdown.html

Or maybe they actually have concern for the citizens of the nation, as well as, those vulnerable supplicants that look to the US for sanctuary.  You can blame this on Democrats all you like, but at the end of the day this was a manufactured crisis orchestrated by Trump and the GOP.

Trump rescinded DACA in early September while making claims that he wants to see "dreamers" protected.  http://thehill.com/latino/348848-sessions-says-DACA-to-end-in-six-months

 

The Republican controlled Congress allowed CHIP to expire in late September. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/the-gop-has-engineered-a-childrens-health-care-crisis.html

The president made bipartisan deals that he either had no intentions of keeping or maybe he forgot about his commitments.

This administration and some of the Congressional sycophants is as cynical an operation as has occurred in modern US politics.  The right has had an opportunity to govern.  They've squandered it in Trump's circus sideshow, and I hope enough people show up in 2018 and 2020 to flush this scum away.

 

[homersapien 11,453]

34 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Dems/Schumer blink. Maybe they got the message they were perceived as the ones responsible for the shutdown?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/22/senate-breaks-dem-filibuster-clearing-way-to-end-government-shutdown.html

But they aren't.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/more-blame-republicans-than-democrats-for-potential-government-shutdown-post-abc-poll-finds/2018/01/19/c4fce2f6-fd32-11e7-ad8c-ecbb62019393_story.html?utm_term=.da807f0d048a

https://www.redstate.com/sarah-rumpf/2018/01/19/poll-whos-blame-government-shutdown-happens/

http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/30/politics/cnn-poll-shutdown-blame/?hpt=hp_t1

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 hour ago, TitanTiger said:

"Democrats effectively backed off their opposition, after being given assurances from majority Republicans."

They are trusting the other side to do the right thing if they relent.  Time will tell if their trust is warranted or foolish.

What changed from Friday?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

40 minutes ago, HVAU said:

Or maybe they actually have concern for the citizens of the nation, as well as, those vulnerable supplicants that look to the US for sanctuary.  You can blame this on Democrats all you like, but at the end of the day this was a manufactured crisis orchestrated by Trump and the GOP.

Trump rescinded DACA in early September while making claims that he wants to see "dreamers" protected.  http://thehill.com/latino/348848-sessions-says-DACA-to-end-in-six-months

 

The Republican controlled Congress allowed CHIP to expire in late September. http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/11/the-gop-has-engineered-a-childrens-health-care-crisis.html

The president made bipartisan deals that he either had no intentions of keeping or maybe he forgot about his commitments.

This administration and some of the Congressional sycophants is as cynical an operation as has occurred in modern US politics.  The right has had an opportunity to govern.  They've squandered it in Trump's circus sideshow, and I hope enough people show up in 2018 and 2020 to flush this scum away.

 

Having concerns for citizens would be unique. You see thing thru different eves just as I do. So we disagree.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

What changed from Friday?

About Democratic five senators (including Doug Jones) who are from states that Trump won decided to relent after pushing for firmer assurances.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

About Democratic five senators (including Doug Jones) who are from states that Trump won decided to relent after pushing for firmer assurances.

Five Dems voted yes Friday including Jones (no change except a lot more Dems voted yes. They have no more assurance about anything than they did Friday (no change). JMHO  but I think they got the message that Americans citizens were tired of being second to illegals.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

5 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Five Dems voted yes Friday including Jones (no change except a lot more Dems voted yes. They have no more assurance about anything than they did Friday (no change). JMHO  but I think they got the message that Americans citizens were tired of being second to illegals.

Your humble opinion doesn't jive with known polling numbers on who the general public blames and how they see the issues at play.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

3 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Five Dems voted yes Friday including Jones (no change except a lot more Dems voted yes. They have no more assurance about anything than they did Friday (no change). JMHO  but I think they got the message that Americans citizens were tired of being second to illegals.

I think they are playing the longer game.  They got the message across to Dreamers and those concerned with the issue that they are the party fighting to give them legal status.  The longer the shutdown played out, the more likely public opinion would have flipped to blame Dems.  Instead they can now say that their issues were heard and if McConnell doesn't bring DACA to the floor by Feb 8, the Dems have him on record as reneging on a deal.  Remember, we are just 10 months away from midterms and Dems, by all polling, have the wind at their back right now.  Why not make a symbolic stand now that can pay dividends long term, while doing no real harm as the shutdown was for a mere 60 or so hours?

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 minute ago, Brad_ATX said:

I think they are playing the longer game.  They got the message across to Dreamers and those concerned with the issue that they are the party fighting to give them legal status.  The longer the shutdown played out, the more likely public opinion would have flipped to blame Dems.  Instead they can now say that their issues were heard and if McConnell doesn't bring DACA to the floor by Feb 8, the Dems have him on record as reneging on a deal.  Remember, we are just 10 months away from midterms and Dems, by all polling, have the wind at their back right now.  Why not make a symbolic stand now that can pay dividends long term, while doing no real harm as the shutdown was for a mere 60 or so hours?

I can buy that.

[WDG 109]

On ‎1‎/‎20‎/‎2018 at 11:57 PM, Brad_ATX said:

And 46 percent of independents said they blame Trump and Republicans, compared to 25 percent who blame Democrats

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/whos-to-blame-for-the-government-shutdown-a-look-at-the-political-fallout-so-far

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

47 minutes ago, WDG said:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/whos-to-blame-for-the-government-shutdown-a-look-at-the-political-fallout-so-far

 

I'm sorry, but I need some clarification here.  What does an analyst piece have to do with refuting poll numbers?  I read this and can't find it anywhere.

[AUFAN78 3,926]

Let's keep it simple. 

http://hopelesslypartisan.com/the-government-shutdown-and-who-is-to-blame/

[WDG 109]

2 hours ago, Brad_ATX said:

I'm sorry, but I need some clarification here.  What does an analyst piece have to do with refuting poll numbers?  I read this and can't find it anywhere.

The democrat party just wasted ALL of its capital on a government shutdown choosing illegal aliens over Americans & which they received not an iota of good press over. It’ll be hard for Democrats to duck the Republicans’ charge that they’re being hypocritical after opposing the last shutdown, which took place in 2013. Back then, public polls showed that Americans blamed Republicans much more for the shutdown than Democrats. This time around, the polling was more even. According to a Politico/Morning Consult poll taken late last week, before the shutdown started, 41 percent of voters blamed Republicans, compared to 36 percent who blamed Democrats. What a terrible mistake. The democrat party just wasted ALL of its capital on a government shutdown choosing illegal aliens over Americans & which they received not an iota of good press over. The German language has a word schadenfreude which means Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. That is what is wrong with both political parties.

schadenfreude  is what has corrupted the DOJ. 
More than 50,000 texts exchanged between FBI officials Strzok and Page we the tax payers are paying a steep price for this crap!
 

[SaltyTiger 7,864]

1 hour ago, AUFAN78 said:

Let's keep it simple. 

http://hopelesslypartisan.com/the-government-shutdown-and-who-is-to-blame/

Good stuff 78 and thanks. 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

36 minutes ago, WDG said:

The democrat party just wasted ALL of its capital on a government shutdown choosing illegal aliens over Americans & which they received not an iota of good press over. It’ll be hard for Democrats to duck the Republicans’ charge that they’re being hypocritical after opposing the last shutdown, which took place in 2013. Back then, public polls showed that Americans blamed Republicans much more for the shutdown than Democrats. This time around, the polling was more even. According to a Politico/Morning Consult poll taken late last week, before the shutdown started, 41 percent of voters blamed Republicans, compared to 36 percent who blamed Democrats. What a terrible mistake. The democrat party just wasted ALL of its capital on a government shutdown choosing illegal aliens over Americans & which they received not an iota of good press over. The German language has a word schadenfreude which means Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others. That is what is wrong with both political parties.

schadenfreude  is what has corrupted the DOJ. 
More than 50,000 texts exchanged between FBI officials Strzok and Page we the tax payers are paying a steep price for this crap!
 

I can respect this take, but I disagree on one thing in particular.  I don't think they wasted all of their capital.  If anything, they put pressure on McConnell to actually put DACA on the floor in the next three weeks, as promised.  Otherwise they can shut down again on 2/8 and have a legitimate claim that Republican leadership acted in bad faith.

Ultimately I don't think Dems will pay a price though on this issue.  It was a three day shutdown, two of which were over a weekend.  In 2013, Republicans shut it down for 16 days and still gained seats in each chamber during the 2014 midterms, including taking over the Senate.

One other thing.  The moderates seemed to have won here.  That's a really good thing for all of us as it could lead to more compromise down the road, meaning actual work gets done.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

35 minutes ago, WDG said:

The democrat party just wasted ALL of its capital on a government shutdown choosing illegal aliens over Americans & which they received not an iota of good press over. It’ll be hard for Democrats to duck the Republicans’ charge that they’re being hypocritical after opposing the last shutdown, which took place in 2013. 

Conversely, it's hard to take Republican indignation over the shutdown this year all that seriously given their insistence that it was for good reasons in 2013.  Truth is, both parties have now used shutdowns and the leverage thereof to push for things they wanted.  Plain and simple.  To act like the two instances weren't two cheeks from the same butt is dishonest.

 

 

[WDG 109]

Sen. Richard Shelby, R-Ala., told The Journal that Democrats did not have the public's support during negotiations and were being blamed for the shutdown. He said he believed Democrats “overgamed” the gridlock.

“I think they gambled and didn’t win. Nobody wins when the government shuts down,” he said.

The Wall Street Journal, in an editorial titled, “Chuck Schumer, Shut Down,” wrote that the New York Democrat exposed his colleauges running for re-election in "Trump states" to “placate his progressive base, and then he caved on the shutdown and ended up with the approval of neither.”

 

I fear Jeff Sessions may fall into the swamp. He needs to reopen HC investigation based on what we are learning.

 

[homersapien 11,453]

20 hours ago, Proud Tiger said:

Five Dems voted yes Friday including Jones (no change except a lot more Dems voted yes. They have no more assurance about anything than they did Friday (no change). JMHO  but I think they got the message that Americans citizens were tired of being second to illegals.

Actually, most Americans - by far - support the Democratic position on DACA.

All this "favoring illegals over ......"  schtick is pure Republican spin trying to demonize the Democrat's goals for DACA.  Sooner or later, Republicans are going to have to take a position and deal with it.

[MDM4AU 336]

If a government shutdown was as bad as politicians and some in the media proclaim, Congress would absolutely never let it happen. EVER. I'm not saying there is nothing bad about it. It certainly is not a good thing. But the severity of the situation that is being pushed doesn't equal the attempt by Congress to avoid it.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

28 minutes ago, MDM4AU said:

If a government shutdown was as bad as politicians and some in the media proclaim, Congress would absolutely never let it happen. EVER. I'm not saying there is nothing bad about it. It certainly is not a good thing. But the severity of the situation that is being pushed doesn't equal the attempt by Congress to avoid it.

It got a little hairy for some people I knew back in 2013.  That one went 16 days.  You know you're almost sure to get all your backpay when it ends, but bills, groceries and such still have to be paid for and they don't take "gov't shutdown" as a form of payment.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

The left don't seem to be happy with Schumer now. Everybody has an opinion but I think Schumer screwed up this time around. I think he thought the GOP would get the blame as usual but when that didn't turn out to be an overwhelming opinion he was screwed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/schumer-bashed-by-left-over-shutdown-ending-deal.html

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

The left don't seem to be happy with Schumer now. Everybody has an opinion but I think Schumer screwed up this time around. I think he thought the GOP would get the blame as usual but when that didn't turn out to be an overwhelming opinion he was screwed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/23/schumer-bashed-by-left-over-shutdown-ending-deal.html

The far left may not be happy, but this may have done wonders for moderates as it was those Senators who got the ball over the finish line.  If that's the case, I'm 100% happy.

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

Post-shutdown poll is out.  Dems number is up a few points, but more folks are also blaming Trump than they were on Friday.  Looks like Congressional Republicans are the ones who came out looking good here.  The independent voter responses should be alarming to POTUS though, as those voters put him over the top last year.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-democrats-trump-to-blame-for-government-shutdown/ar-AAv4Q8z?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

20 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

Post-shutdown poll is out.  Dems number is up a few points, but more folks are also blaming Trump than they were on Friday.  Looks like Congressional Republicans are the ones who came out looking good here.  The independent voter responses should be alarming to POTUS though, as those voters put him over the top last year.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/poll-democrats-trump-to-blame-for-government-shutdown/ar-AAv4Q8z?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

Not sure it's fair to add Trump's and the Republicans together. Trump is just 1/3 of the pie. The GOPers  and Dems in congress are separate pieces. JMHO.

I would like to see a poll that simply asked "who do you blame more for the shut down, Democrats or Republicans? For me the real take away here is that contrary to past shut downs the GOP didn't get all the blame. I think Schumer got that message real quick and caved.

[TitanTiger 20,511]

10 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Not sure it's fair to add Trump's and the Republicans together. Trump is just 1/3 of the pie. The GOPers  and Dems in congress are separate pieces. JMHO.

I would like to see a poll that simply asked "who do you blame more for the shut down, Democrats or Republicans? For me the real take away here is that contrary to past shut downs the GOP didn't get all the blame. I think Schumer got that message real quick and caved.

Well, that's because the previous two shutdowns were all initiated by the Republicans.  This one wasn't.  I wonder why the Democrats didn't get all the blame for forcing this one like the Republicans did on the 2013 and 1995 ones?