#ReleaseTheMemo

[TitanTiger 20,482]

Just now, Proud Tiger said:

Of course it's on me. You are never wrong.

You need a new tactic.  This one has worn itself out and garners you no sympathy.  You need to learn how to better articulate your ideas and quit pitching a fit when someone pokes holes in the logic.

Maybe the politics forum isn't the place for you.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

1 minute ago, TitanTiger said:

You need a new tactic.  This one has worn itself out and garners you no sympathy.  You need to learn how to better articulate your ideas and quit pitching a fit when someone pokes holes in the logic.

Maybe the politics forum isn't the place for you.

I'm not looking for sympathy and now you revert to being insulting. I will only add.....another mod on the board is a very close friend and says you are sometimes hard to  communicate with in person. Let's face it , neither of us know each other in person so that can lead to false impressions. I am in Auburn, you are 60 miles away in Montgomery. I have offered before to drive over and have lunch with you. I did that once before with a poster here and we became good friends. Balls in your court.

[TitanTiger 20,482]

4 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I'm not looking for sympathy and now you revert to being insulting.

I'm indeed insulting your arguments. 

 

4 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I will only add.....another mod on the board is a very close friend and says you are sometimes hard to communicate with in person.

And I'll add, numerous other members of this board and multiple mods have feelings regarding your style around here that aren't much different than mine.  So what?

 

4 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Let's face it , neither of us know each other in person so that can lead to false impressions. I am in Auburn, you are 60 miles away in Montgomery. I have offered before to drive over and have lunch with you. I did that once before with a poster here and we became good friends. Balls in your court.

I don't mind having lunch with anyone, PT.  But that doesn't mean I won't call a spade a spade.  When you make weak arguments, or are being inconsistent, I will call you out on it. 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

2 hours ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't mind having lunch with anyone, PT.  But that doesn't mean I won't call a spade a spade.  When you make weak arguments, or are being inconsistent, I will call you out on it. 

I don't mind anyone calling a spade a spade but that is in the eye of the caller who I respect if they are open to rebuttal w/o antagonism. I admire Trump for calling a spade a spade but you don't like it. I readily admit that I don't always agree with him or often his tone. You might try understanding my opinions w/o putting them down so adamantly. If not I guess I will just try to refrain from responding to you. I think I hear cheering from the forum.

[homersapien 11,373]

1 hour ago, Proud Tiger said:

I don't mind anyone calling a spade a spade but that is in the eye of the caller who I respect if they are open to rebuttal w/o antagonism. I admire Trump for calling a spade a spade but you don't like it. I readily admit that I don't always agree with him or often his tone. You might try understanding my opinions w/o putting them down so adamantly. If not I guess I will just try to refrain from responding to you. I think I hear cheering from the forum.

I'm curious, on what do you disagree with Trump? 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 8:19 PM, WDG said:

as the walls close in http://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/370717-as-walls-close-in-on-fbi-the-bureau-lashes-out-at-its-antagonists

 

Looks like release of the memo is imminent. For the life of me I can't understand why the Dems are so adamant about not releasing it. They keep bending their spears over something the people want. Is there anyone here who doesn't want to see it? Release the dang thing and let the American people decide!!!!

[HVAU 673]

1 minute ago, Proud Tiger said:

Looks like release of the memo is imminent. For the life of me I can't understand why the Dems are so adamant about not releasing it. Release the dang thing and let the American people decide!!!!

From all the quotes I've seen their reason seems to be that the memo is "a misleading set of talking points attacking the FBI" (Newsweek citation of HIC Democrats) and the DOJ believes it improperly reveals classified information to the public.

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

20 minutes ago, HVAU said:

From all the quotes I've seen their reason seems to be that the memo is "a misleading set of talking points attacking the FBI" (Newsweek citation of HIC Democrats) and the DOJ believes it improperly reveals classified information to the public.

My understanding is very different. It supposedly addresses the issue of FISA warrants and whether they were abused by the Obama administration.  The GOP has supported the FISA procedure but when it is abused in a "big  brother" way it becomes a dangerous thing. The DEMs were opposed to it not too long ago. The GOP guys refute the classified info bit. So maybe we shall see. For sure transparency and accountability are ways to help restore public confidence in out gov't.

[homersapien 11,373]

46 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

Looks like release of the memo is imminent. For the life of me I can't understand why the Dems are so adamant about not releasing it. They keep bending their spears over something the people want. Is there anyone here who doesn't want to see it? Release the dang thing and let the American people decide!!!!

The stated reasons concern security.  (Trump's) justice department has expressed the same concerns.

And let's not forget, this memo was written by Nunes.  Democrats proposed a similar memo, presumably to provide a counter-perspective to the Nunes memo, but it was rejected along party lines.  So perhaps we should release that memo as well and "let the American people decide".

Whatever trouble Trump may or may not be in, this effort by his extreme supporters to discredit the FBI will be seen as shameful by the majority of the American people. 

But Putin must be having paroxysms of gratification.

[homersapien 11,373]

* GOP BASE REALLY WANTS THAT MEMO OUT: The Post reports that even Republicans are divided on whether the Nunes memo really proves what it is supposed to prove, but in the end, the truth may not matter:

Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) suggested the memo would be explosive: “We get this memo out there, and people will see, the fix was in.” Another Republican who has seen it said it might not be the smoking gun conservatives have described. Rep. Mark Sanford (R-S.C.) said that while he has gotten more phone calls from constituents on the document than he did on the government shutdown, he largely attributed that uproar to cable news coverage of it.

More phone calls than on the shutdown! Conservative media has whipped up a huge frenzy, and those media sources will similarly spin the memo as a scandal no matter what’s in it.

* REPUBLICANS DON’T WANT FACTS ON NUNES MEMO: During last night’s skirmishing around the Nunes memo, this also happened:

Democrats tried unsuccessfully on Monday to push forward a motion for the F.B.I. and the Justice Department to brief the entire House in a private session on that material before the release of the Republican memo so that they could make a more informed judgment about its contents.

But Republicans don’t want to make an “informed judgment about its contents,” they want to use cherry-picked info to bolster their alt-narrative.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/plum-line/wp/2018/01/30/gops-new-tactic-to-protect-trump-from-mueller-is-a-transparent-ruse/?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.2d517344352e

[japantiger 4,051]

10 hours ago, homersapien said:

The stated reasons concern security.  (Trump's) justice department has expressed the same concerns.

And let's not forget, this memo was written by Nunes.  Democrats proposed a similar memo, presumably to provide a counter-perspective to the Nunes memo, but it was rejected along party lines.  So perhaps we should release that memo as well and "let the American people decide".

Whatever trouble Trump may or may not be in, this effort by his extreme supporters to discredit the FBI will be seen as shameful by the majority of the American people. 

But Putin must be having paroxysms of gratification.

Three things...

• your point on the Democrat memo is factually incorrect.  What was rejected was the immediate release without review; like the Chairmans memo went thru.  The dem's wanted to directly release the memo before being reviewed by the committee, congress, having a vote afterwards and then submitting for Admin review....the dem's now need to go thru the normal order process (so who bets they just leak it?)...
• the DOJ is the one that is being called on the carpet in the memo...gee, shocked that they would object....isn't it funny that after seeing the memo the FBI Director fired the guy that he had supposedly threatened to resign if Trump fired....I wonder why?  Hey, let's release the memo and we all get to find out....
• And yet, still not one single piece of evidence put forward of collusion.....so, if Vlad  is having paroxysms, it must be from bathing shirtless in the lake at his Dacha in the Russian winter ...

[homersapien 11,373]

1 minute ago, japantiger said:

Three things...

• your point on the Democrat memo is factually incorrect.  What was rejected was the immediate release without review; like the Chairmans memo went thru.  The dem's wanted to directly release the memo before being reviewed by the committee, congress, having a vote afterwards and then submitting for Admin review....the dem's now need to go thru the normal order process (so who bets they just leak it?)...
• the DOJ is the one that is being called on the carpet in the memo...gee, shocked that they would object....isn't it funny that after seeing the memo the FBI Director fired the guy that he had supposedly threatened to resign if Trump fired....I wonder why?  Hey, let's release the memo and we all get to find out....
• And yet, still not one single piece of evidence put forward of collusion.....so, if Vlad  is having paroxysms, it must be from bathing shirtless in the lake at his Dacha in the Russian winter ...

 

• In other words, the Democrats proposed to do exactly what Nunes wanted to do.  And if there are going to be "contesting memos" coming coming from one committee, they should be released simultaneously.  No one remembers corrections after the fact.
• The DOJ is only one of four different agencies that have a say regarding the potential security risks.  (But you demonstrate make my point regarding non-contested accusations by assuming they are guilty.)  
• Collusion aside, Putin is having paroxysms because Trump is president instead of Hillary.  It's exactly the outcome he wanted, for reasons that should be obvious.

[japantiger 4,051]

2 hours ago, homersapien said:

 

• In other words, the Democrats proposed to do exactly what Nunes wanted to do.  And if there are going to be "contesting memos" coming coming from one committee, they should be released simultaneously.  No one remembers corrections after the fact.
• The DOJ is only one of four different agencies that have a say regarding the potential security risks.  (But you demonstrate make my point regarding non-contested accusations by assuming they are guilty.)  
• Collusion aside, Putin is having paroxysms because Trump is president instead of Hillary.  It's exactly the outcome he wanted, for reasons that should be obvious.

Homey, if the Dems wanted something released they could have gotten off their ass and produced it at the same time...the R memo has been circulating for weeks...you're just pissed because you're losing the real battle and the PR battle.  As for security risks, read the responses from those that saw it over the weekend...no innacuracies and constructed such that no S&Ms released....either way, i am sure the Republic will survive with Congress and the President exercising their duly granted constitutional authority....sort of how it is supposed to work.  And lastly,  you must be drinking or a victim of the opioid epidemic.   In what world would putin not rather have a Democrat in charge?  

[homersapien 11,373]

9 hours ago, japantiger said:

Homey, if the Dems wanted something released they could have gotten off their ass and produced it at the same time...the R memo has been circulating for weeks...you're just pissed because you're losing the real battle and the PR battle.  As for security risks, read the responses from those that saw it over the weekend...no innacuracies and constructed such that no S&Ms released....either way, i am sure the Republic will survive with Congress and the President exercising their duly granted constitutional authority....sort of how it is supposed to work.  And lastly,  you must be drinking or a victim of the opioid epidemic.   In what world would putin not rather have a Democrat in charge?  

In other words, the Democrats should have "gotten off their ass" to put together a piece of propaganda to push a false narrative.

And like I said, I hope this thing is released.  Nunce is a wacko and Republicans have a penchant for over-playing their hand.

And you really need to do your homework concerning Putin "preferring the Democrats".  He absolutely hated Clinton and Obama both because they called him out on his own fraudulent electoral activities.  Trump - on the other hand - is someone who is literally in debt to the Russians.  They own him.  This is common knowledge.  Wake up and pull your head out. 

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/clinton-putin-226153

Why Putin hates Hillary

Behind the allegations of a Russian hack of the DNC is the Kremlin leader's fury at Clinton for challenging the fairness of Russian elections.

 

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8qbbdx/why-putin-hates-clinton-and-helped-trump-win

Why Putin Hates Clinton and Helped Trump Win

An expert in US-Russia relations explains how we got to where we are today.

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-39334757/putin-hates-clinton-and-other-things-fbi-knows-about-russia

'Putin hates Clinton' and other things FBI knows about Russia

 

There's lots more on this if you're smart enough to look.

[homersapien 11,373]

I’m a Republican. Why Is My Party Gaslighting America?

By AMANDA CARPENTER   January 30, 2018

 

Riddle me this: If Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee have smoking gun evidence of a deep-state conspiracy that threatens American democracy itself, wouldn’t they be doing more than playing silly hashtag games, such as #ReleasetheMemo?

Hint: The answer is yes. If this were a serious undertaking, congressional investigators would be collaborating with the Department of Justice, FBI and relevant Senate committees to save America from the threat within. But we’re no longer dealing in the realm of facts and reason when it comes to grave matters of security and justice. We are, at Donald Trump’s behest, fully engulfed in a narrative explicitly designed to impugn and destroy the credibility of the law enforcement agency tasked with investigating the Trump campaign’s relationship with Russia during the 2016 election.

The memo in question is one written by the staff of Republican Intelligence Committee Chairman Devin Nunes—the same Nunes who recused himself from the Russia investigation last year among allegations that “he made unauthorized disclosures of classified information.” Now, Nunes is at it again. This time with a four-page classified memo that, if you believe what those who have read it say, shows an Obama-era FBI rife with corruption and engaging in eye-popping abuses of power. The details of what the memo says have been kept private, because they are classified. But that hasn’t stopped Trump’s allies on Capitol Hill and beyond from crowing about the allegedly shocking memo since mid-January, demanding it be released to the public and spawning a viral hashtag, now used by everyone from Donald Trump Jr. to Sean Hannity and Julian Assange. After the House voted on Monday to do so, House Speaker Paul Ryan made a statement in favor of the decision. Now, the matter is in the president’s hands.

But really, at this point, it doesn’t really matter what the memo says. Prompted by Trump, his allies on Capitol Hill and in the Trump-affirming media universe, millions of Americans have been led to brainstorm all the various ways faceless bureaucrats embedded in the government could be working to undermine Trump. The entire American political media complex is consumed with speculation about what might be in the memo’s contents. We’ve all been sucked into a story we know probably isn’t true. And, there’s not a thing we can do to stop it. The president has already claimed two scalps with his shameless bullying, rumor mongering and conspiracy peddling: former FBI Director James Comey and Deputy Director Andrew McCabe. And it’s happening all over again. With #Releasethememo, the FBI has already been accused of a multitude of various crimes without ever being given the chance to answer or explain.

The #ReleasetheMemo campaign bears all the classic hallmarks of a uniquely Trumpian ruse. Throughout his career as a New York real estate mogul and media star Trump has stumbled upon a foolproof way of trapping people into his web of lies. He always begins by casting vague aspersions about his target, in this case, the law enforcement networks investigating him. Recall how news reports of the now well-known and controversial dossier prompted him to ask, “Are we living in Nazi Germany?” Or how he compared the surveillance of campaign associates, such as Paul Manafort and Carter Page, to “McCarthyism” and “Nixon/Watergate.” Never mind that his actions more closely resemble those of Nixon during Watergate than anything undertaken those investigating him. Trump wanted his followers to believe one thing and one thing only: A massive conspiracy was underfoot to undermine his presidency, and he’s been peddling this particular theory for well over a year now.

Next step: Rather than answer any questions directly about the matter, Trump advances his narrative, often while denying any responsibility for it. His statement to NBC’s Lester Holt about firing Comey is a classic example. “And, in fact when I decided to just do it, I said to myself, I said you know, this Russia thing with Trump and Russia is a made-up story, it’s an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election they should have won,” he said. In other words, he fired Comey because of the Russian investigation, but denied there was any wrongdoing with Russia. This tactic has similarly played out with #ReleasetheMemo. Republicans have widely advanced the narrative that various abuses were committed, but denied naming anything specific, citing security concerns with releasing the material. 

Here’s another Trumpian tactic: building suspense. When Trump tweeted that “James Comey better hope that there are no ‘tapes’ of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press!” people immediately started to question whether, à la Watergate, there was a secret taping system inside the Oval Office. They hoped there were tapes. Even Comey himself testified to Congress, “Lordy, I hope there are tapes.” Weeks later, Trump admitted there were no tapes. Often Trump will, whether he has it or not, promise information will come out “soon … perhaps in two weeks.” This is the precise stage we find ourselves upon now with #ReleasetheMemo. At this moment, Trump is waiting to make a final decision to release the contents. We all have our countdown clocks on; Trump is in control of this story. Whatever happens next, rest assured, Trump will use the self-manufactured controversy Nunes created to discredit the Russia probe investigators.

You may think this all sounds silly and misleading; that this nonsense could never work. But when people see what’s in the memo, it won’t settle the debate. More likely than not, another round of gaslighting will begin to tip the debate in Trump’s favor. Remember, Trump is the same guy who used the bogus birther theory to launch himself on the political stage. He is the same guy who used the National Enquirer to accuse Ted Cruz’s father of being involved in the assassination of JFK. Don’t laugh. The same week Trump started flacking that flabbergasting story, Cruz dropped out of the presidential election and Trump became the default GOP presidential nominee.

And this time, Trump has an eager crop of Republicans on Capitol Hill eager to assist him and an entire government apparatus at his disposal in the form of bobble-headed Cabinet secretaries, press teams and even a vice president. As a result, everyone is talking about what could possibly be in the mysterious memo. Republicans are running to TV cameras hyping claims about improper surveillance, FISA court abuse and partisan rancor inside the FBI.

We are being gaslit into believing that, supposedly, those investigating Trump’s ties to Russia are so biased and corrupt that nothing they produce should be believed. Every once in a while, the true aims of this narrative are revealed. Rep. Matt Gaetz, the freshly elected Republican congressman from Florida, let the truth slip. He told CNN’s Jake Tapper in between his hits on InfoWars with Alex Jones, that there is “tremendous bias that should stop this probe from going forward.”

“Stop this probe from going forward.” Alas, there is always a purpose to Trump’s gaslighting. Trump’s firemen on Capitol Hill know their mission. Whether they succeed or not depends on our ability to see through the smoke. At this point, the future seems hazy.

Amanda Carpenter is a CNN contributor, former communications director for Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Tex.) and speechwriter for Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC).

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/30/republican-party-release-the-memo-gaslighting-america-216554

[TexasTiger 12,869]

On 1/27/2018 at 4:21 PM, AUFAN78 said:

Doesn't appear many were duped, but millions of Americans would like the memo's released. Why not? What's to hide? 

Lose the tinfoil hat Tex. This ain't about Putin. 

That’s why his bots were pushing #releasethememo so hard on Twitter. Putin’s your Daddy.

[TexasTiger 12,869]

14 hours ago, japantiger said:

Homey, if the Dems wanted something released they could have gotten off their ass and produced it at the same time...the R memo has been circulating for weeks...you're just pissed because you're losing the real battle and the PR battle.  As for security risks, read the responses from those that saw it over the weekend...no innacuracies and constructed such that no S&Ms released....either way, i am sure the Republic will survive with Congress and the President exercising their duly granted constitutional authority....sort of how it is supposed to work.  And lastly,  you must be drinking or a victim of the opioid epidemic.   In what world would putin not rather have a Democrat in charge?  

The Republican FBI Director appointed by tRUmp says its inaccurate. It’s a propaganda piece. Putin sends his thanks for your abiding loyalty.

[WDavE 332]

Approved truth tellers.....

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/22/clinton-lectured-state-dept-staff-on-cybersecurity-in-2010-video.html

[TitanTiger 20,482]

5 minutes ago, WDavE said:

Approved truth tellers.....

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/10/22/clinton-lectured-state-dept-staff-on-cybersecurity-in-2010-video.html

Relevance to this thread?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

FBI basically calling the memo BS

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

54 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

FBI basically calling the memo BS

https://www.cnn.com/2018/01/31/politics/nunes-memo-law-enforcement/index.html

 

I sure don't see that having some concerns is BS. There seems to be some differing sources or something because yesterday the FBI supposedly said they found nothing in the memo that wasn't factual. Yesterday those who didn't want it released were citing classified info concerns. Now this on CNN. What will it be tomorrow.............release of the memo I hope. What say you?

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

2 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

I sure don't see that having some concerns is BS. There seems to be some differing sources or something because yesterday the FBI supposedly said they found nothing in the memo that wasn't factual. Yesterday those who didn't want it released were citing classified info concerns. Now this on CNN. What will it be tomorrow.............release of the memo I hope. What say you?

CNN's report is merely about the FBI statement released publicly today by Director Wray.  I fully expect Trump to declassify this.  However, this is the FBI Director (appointed by Trump) directly coming out and saying if the memo is released, it will include a lot of potentially inaccurate info.  This quote from the FBI statement should bother anyone who cares about truth:

"...we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy."

[Proud Tiger 4,261]

11 minutes ago, Brad_ATX said:

CNN's report is merely about the FBI statement released publicly today by Director Wray.  I fully expect Trump to declassify this.  However, this is the FBI Director (appointed by Trump) directly coming out and saying if the memo is released, it will include a lot of potentially inaccurate info.  This quote from the FBI statement should bother anyone who cares about truth:

"...we have grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the memo's accuracy."

But yesterday we had this:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/30/fbi-officials-review-surveillance-memo-could-not-cite-any-factual-inaccuracies-source.html

And last night praised Wray. So who do we believe?  "If there are "material omissions" put them in and release the revised memo. Would you object to that?

Now here is a FACT.......iut's happy hour in Auburn so see ya later gator.....er. I mean Tiger. WDE

 

[AUFAN78 3,895]

2 hours ago, TexasTiger said:

That’s why his bots were pushing #releasethememo so hard on Twitter. Putin’s your Daddy.

 

[Brad_ATX 13,654]

42 minutes ago, Proud Tiger said:

But yesterday we had this:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/30/fbi-officials-review-surveillance-memo-could-not-cite-any-factual-inaccuracies-source.html

And last night praised Wray. So who do we believe?  "If there are "material omissions" put them in and release the revised memo. Would you object to that?

Now here is a FACT.......iut's happy hour in Auburn so see ya later gator.....er. I mean Tiger. WDE

 

I have no objections to fully vetted, factual based information being released if it does not hurt our country's interest internationally or with regard to security.

I also have no objection to happy hour!