Different Viewpoint

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

8 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Well you asked about Kirby.  When has Kirby done that?  He didn't do it against us in 2017 when they were in the exact same position as us with a true freshmen in Jake Fromm.

But he did sit Fields and Elam when they didn’t and gave the freshman a chance. 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

10 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

Well you asked about Kirby.  When has Kirby done that?  He didn't do it against us in 2017 when they were in the exact same position as us with a true freshmen in Jake Fromm.

Also no one is talking about pulling the QB for one mistake but after two or three you have to step in. Where was Gus ?

[Beenjammin 87]

Play calling for me was the 4 and inches. When Whitlow can get 3 yards out of a horribly bad snap on accident, then we can surely get inches to a yard to keep a drive alive even if it leads to a FG. 

[steeleagle 2,945]

23 minutes ago, AUBourne said:

Considering how bad development of QBs have been under Gus and his inability to fix it I am starting to think the issue is greater than the position. I dont know enough to watch a game and say if it is mechanics on throws, lack of practice and muscle memory to make the connection, the lack of understanding the offense and check downs or something else. Bo didn't have these accuracy issues in HS. He could also check down and improvise and throw to open spots. So could Kiehl Frazier, Jeremy Johnson etc. So I dont think it's the player so much as a lack of preparedness and the system they are using. I agree with the thought that with average QB play AU beats UF by 7. And if Dan Mullen was our Offensive coach and Gus was UF"s O coach, AU wins by 24.  I also think when Mullen said that Gus knows how to scratch where it itches he was being condescending on the down low. I'm being harsh on Gus and I have always thought he had potential to be a legendary coach. But here in year 7 this ineptitude we witnessed is starting to be intolerable.

BTW there was another confrontation pregame down in the North endzone. I have not seen any videos and not sure what happened. I didn't notice until several players were massed up already. 

If you're talking about the pregame skirmish, it involved Shivers and a couple of FL players. Problem is Shivers grabbed the FL players mask first, and after the FL grabbed his back, Shivers pushed both FL players, before JJ Wilson and others  grabbed him and pulled him away. 

THat may have been why SHivers didn't play, as Gus may have been disciplining him, if he was told.

Don't know if its true but it was said that the players were picking on Shivers about his height...don't know who reported that though...

[DAG 33,983]

13 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

No I’m saying I wouldn’t want any special favors over my team. I do believe Bo is a true player . I think honestly if you asked him he probably wished that he would have been pulled also. It’s not fun making yourself look bad on national tv. I think Gus did Bo a disservice. And I think of Joey on the side line wondering what the heck did I do not to  even get a touch in the game. Same as Worm or Anthony. Do you think Gus was fair to the other players on the team?

No I don’t think Gus is being fair but I don’t think you should be placing your frustration in terms of that at Bo. You really think Bo should’ve have said take me out? Most athletes , especially someone so green, won’t even try something like that. It is like when people were blaming SW for playing injured.

[Tiger 8,826]

The whole world would come crashing down on Bo if he voluntarily pulled himself out. That would've sent the worst possible message to the team. Essentially saying their QB is scared. He would have no clout as a leader if that happened. You bust your ass and try to win the game until the coach takes you out

[abw0004 10,113]

27 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

But he did sit Fields and Elam when they didn’t and gave the freshman a chance. 

What?  Fields was not there in 2017 and Fromm was not pulled that year.  What Smart did with Fields the following year in 2018 is what many on here are frustrated with Malzahn and Gatewood.  Fields only handed the ball off or ran.  

[AUBourne 425]

11 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

If you're talking about the pregame skirmish, it involved Shivers and a couple of FL players. Problem is Shivers grabbed the FL players mask first, and after the FL grabbed his back, Shivers pushed both FL players, before JJ Wilson and others  grabbed him and pulled him away. 

THat may have been why SHivers didn't play, as Gus may have been disciplining him, if he was told.

Don't know if its true but it was said that the players were picking on Shivers about his height...don't know who reported that though...

The Shivers skirmish happened around the 40 yard line. There was another skirmish with more players involved in the North endzone. I am pretty sure the skirmish in the endzone was first. But i think the Gainesville sun dried up most of my brain cells and I can't recall.

[abw0004 10,113]

3 minutes ago, AUBourne said:

The Shivers skirmish happened around the 40 yard line. There was another skirmish with more players involved in the North endzone. I am pretty sure the skirmish in the endzone was first. But i think the Gainesville sun dried up most of my brain cells and I can't recall.

I think Florida is used to doing that with other teams like UGA.  They do this every year with them it seems.  Auburn really doesn't care too much to waste their time with these things.  Last time I remember something like this happening was in 2016 when Arkansas players stomped on the AU during the prayer session.

[gr82be 14,425]

45 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

The point is what do you do when your QB keeps overthrowing and under throwing? Do you just keep on letting him throw it. I’m pretty sure oSaben or Kirby or any winning coach is not going to go that route. I’ve seen Saban pull hurts or Tua. Saw Dabo pull Watson . All of them were pulled at least temporarily for making a stupid mistake that a QB with Their knowledge has to be able not to make. I guarantee any other QB besides Bo would have been pulled . If Bo is a true player he should have told Gus to pull him anyway. He should own those mistakes and tell Gus if the situation happens again to treat him like any other member of the team and bench him. If I was him I would not want any special deals because of who my dad was. I would want to be treated like every other player including getting called out when I do something stupid.

I made reference to that in another thread by asking how does he do that and it not look like he is quitting. If he's hurt I get it but if he's struggling just to make throws then the coach has to make that call if it's going to happen. He was left in too long and that's on Gus. But in my opinion Bo can't go there nor would he want to since he is a competitor.  Gus basically told Joey that he wasn't getting meaningful snaps this season last Saturday by doing what he did. Gus is just going to Gus and that's too bad for these players. 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

28 minutes ago, abw0004 said:

What?  Fields was not there in 2017 and Fromm was not pulled that year.  What Smart did with Fields the following year in 2018 is what many on here are frustrated with Malzahn and Gatewood.  Fields only handed the ball off or ran.  

Exactly. And I did not say 2017 the other poster did. I just made the comment that any good coach would sit a player after two stupid interceptions. For nothing else to at least make a point there were limits to his patience.

[abw0004 10,113]

1 minute ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Exactly. And I did not say 2017 the other poster did. I just made the comment that any good coach would sit a player after two stupid interceptions. For nothing else to at least make a point there were limits to his patience.

I don't think you are following what I am saying though.  You just said Smart would sit a player because he is good enough to know that.  In reality, Smart has never done that.  Especially in the game where you can compare with us apples to apples.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

21 minutes ago, gr82be said:

I made reference to that in another thread by asking how does he do that and it not look like he is quitting. If he's hurt I get it but if he's struggling just to make throws then the coach has to make that call if it's going to happen. He was left in too long and that's on Gus. But in my opinion Bo can't go there nor would he want to since he is a competitor.  Gus basically told Joey that he wasn't getting meaningful snaps this season last Saturday by doing what he did. Gus is just going to Gus and that's too bad for these players. 

Actually as to the point Bo has made some good throws but he has also made some of the worse throws I’ve seen for someone with his level Of experience. I realize he is a freshman but how are you going to help him get better if you won’t correct him. Corrections have to come with a cost or they are ignored. I’m sure like many on hear I can attest to after practice running stairs will help educate you in the field of play.

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

I don't think you are following what I am saying though.  You just said Smart would sit a player because he is good enough to know that.  In reality, Smart has never done that.  Especially in the game where you can compare with us apples to apples.

No actually if you go back and look Fields came in and made some Freshman mistakes and Kirby had to much riding for there to be any OJT in game time. Any way point is good coaches no when to call time out in a player and time out are usually good for players to get their attitude in line.

[triangletiger 1,599]

1 hour ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

No I’m saying I wouldn’t want any special favors over my team. I do believe Bo is a true player . I think honestly if you asked him he probably wished that he would have been pulled also. It’s not fun making yourself look bad on national tv. I think Gus did Bo a disservice. And I think of Joey on the side line wondering what the heck did I do not to  even get a touch in the game. Same as Worm or Anthony. Do you think Gus was fair to the other players on the team?

No QB that has an ounce of competitiveness or confidence is going to tell his coach to pull him.  He's going to go out there and try to play better.  Now, the question as to whether Gus should have pulled Nix Saturday or not is a different one.  Personally, I thought as I was watching the game that nothing was working on offense and Gus ought to give Joey a shot just to see if he can generate a spark (and give Bo a chance to settle down a bit).  It may not have worked, but it was worth a shot.

[abw0004 10,113]

16 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

No actually if you go back and look Fields came in and made some Freshman mistakes and Kirby had to much riding for there to be any OJT in game time. Any way point is good coaches no when to call time out in a player and time out are usually good for players to get their attitude in line.

That isn't comparable though.  Fields was never a starter at UGA.  He only came in for a few third down plays where it was obvious they were running the ball, same thing we do with Gatewood.  He was getting pulled after his one play no matter the outcome of that play.  Fromm was and always would be been the starter.  Your argument would have been valid if Smart pulled Fromm, the starter, if he was doing poorly, but Smart never did that in any game, much less the game you can compare to our Florida game.  Does that help?

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 minute ago, abw0004 said:

That isn't comparable though.  Fields was never a starter at UGA.  He only came in for a few third down plays where it was obvious they were running the ball, same thing we do with Gatewood.  He was getting pulled after his one play no matter the outcome of that play.  Fromm was and always would be been the starter.  Your argument would have been valid if Smart pulled Fromm, the starter, if he was doing poorly, but Smart never did that in any game, much less the game you can compare to our Florida game.  Does that help?

Your missing my point. Fields was the incoming 5 star (Bo) and From was the old last year freshman that didn’t come with all the flash and glitter. In the end Kirby went with who he thought would get the job done not the one with the crowd behind him (Joey) . I think Gus went for the crowd pleaser .

[abw0004 10,113]

7 minutes ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Your missing my point. Fields was the incoming 5 star (Bo) and From was the old last year freshman that didn’t come with all the flash and glitter. In the end Kirby went with who he thought would get the job done not the one with the crowd behind him (Joey) . I think Gus went for the crowd pleaser .

That was not your original point though...  You said originally "I just made the comment that any good coach would sit a player after two stupid interceptions."  Your comment that I just quoted is different.  You went from pulling a QB during a game who is not performing well to which QB should start.

And above you contradicted yourself.  You said "In the end Kirby went with who he thought would get the job done not the one with the crowd behind him (Joey) . I think Gus went for the crowd pleaser ."  How that is interpreted is Kirby went with who he thought would get in the job done in Jake Fromm over the crowd favorite in Justin Fields.  You put in parenthesis that Auburn's crowd favorite would have been Joey Gatewood, correct?  Right after that you said Gus went with the crowd favorite, but if he did he would have gone with Joey, no?

In summation, Kirby Smart has never pulled a quarterback who is performing poorly in a game.  Has he substituted in a quarterback in special predetermined packages?  Yes, but so has Auburn.  Kirby has never pulled a QB from a game though when under duress.  The best apples to apples comparison is our 2019 Florida game to their 2017 regular season game against us.  Both started true freshmen QB's in Bo Nix and Jake Fromm.  Both performed poorly and both stayed in the entire game, not even for a predetermined special package.

[gr82be 14,425]

1 hour ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Actually as to the point Bo has made some good throws but he has also made some of the worse throws I’ve seen for someone with his level Of experience. I realize he is a freshman but how are you going to help him get better if you won’t correct him. Corrections have to come with a cost or they are ignored. I’m sure like many on hear I can attest to after practice running stairs will help educate you in the field of play.

Not sure other than more live reps and film to get him ready. I'm not blaming Gus for everything because there were player miscues but he has to pull Bo if that happens again. 

[Eagle Eye 7 2,535]

1 hour ago, abw0004 said:

That was not your original point though...  You said originally "I just made the comment that any good coach would sit a player after two stupid interceptions."  Your comment that I just quoted is different.  You went from pulling a QB during a game who is not performing well to which QB should start.

And above you contradicted yourself.  You said "In the end Kirby went with who he thought would get the job done not the one with the crowd behind him (Joey) . I think Gus went for the crowd pleaser ."  How that is interpreted is Kirby went with who he thought would get in the job done in Jake Fromm over the crowd favorite in Justin Fields.  You put in parenthesis that Auburn's crowd favorite would have been Joey Gatewood, correct?  Right after that you said Gus went with the crowd favorite, but if he did he would have gone with Joey, no?

In summation, Kirby Smart has never pulled a quarterback who is performing poorly in a game.  Has he substituted in a quarterback in special predetermined packages?  Yes, but so has Auburn.  Kirby has never pulled a QB from a game though when under duress.  The best apples to apples comparison is our 2019 Florida game to their 2017 regular season game against us.  Both started true freshmen QB's in Bo Nix and Jake Fromm.  Both performed poorly and both stayed in the entire game, not even for a predetermined special package.

Ok if you feel better now I feel better for you. 😁

[abw0004 10,113]

1 hour ago, Eagle Eye 7 said:

Ok if you feel better now I feel better for you. 😁

I apologize if you thought I was being combative.  I truly wasn’t.  Honestly after 72’s comment on the “Crow” thread that the pumpers vs. pessimists made this forum not fun for him I took that to heart even though he wasn’t referencing me.  I still felt like I was contributing to that and if someone who is fighting cancer is coming here for an escape and I have any part in ruining that I want to stop.  I want no part in that.

Having said that, your original post of Saban switching out QB’s is spot on.  Give credit where credit is due and he deserves it.  Those championship games were masterpieces.  

[cole256 17,074]

Remember me talking about playing live? Remember me talking about what players mean when they say when the lights come on this guy is different? Well situations like this last game are perfect examples of how the unmeasured qualities can show up and effect a game.

[Roos 122]

Why can't our DB's step in front of receivers to get interception rather than just tackling them quickly? 

we should be getting more interceptions and we seem to never get one anymore???

[cole256 17,074]

39 minutes ago, Roos said:

Why can't our DB's step in front of receivers to get interception rather than just tackling them quickly? 

we should be getting more interceptions and we seem to never get one anymore???

We've been playing off and giving wr's a cushion. I figured we did that at Texas a&m because they have some big wr's but it seems like we're doing it to everybody so far for whatever reason

[SumterAubie 3,031]

.Auburn was in a difficult situation with this game. Playing at their place, with a Frosh qb, against a talented team with a chip on their shoulder and a fan based insulted by a lack of respect. Even before the game started, uf was showing an unusual amount of energy on their sideline. Auburn could have won the game but did not capitalize on the one breakdown by uf, while uf scored on Auburn's two defensive misplays.

Auburn lost a close game on the road between two evenly matched teams. I don't understand the bitterness that is permeating every thread. I guess so many fans foolishly expecting Auburn to beat uf soundly has led to all the acrimony.

What is especially amusing is seeing the anger from those who predicted an 8-4 season. They predicted it, yet are mad as hell the prediction may be coming true.