Brahms and Troxell returning...

[cole256 17,084]

32 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

What makes you think that? Trying to understand what you see.

Recovering from his injury. This is the year where you'd normally see his knee be fully recovered. Also his confidence has to be better and he probably trusts his leg more.  Also all of them have a year in to know the offense so they can react as opposed to thinking. And this is his first time of sustained playing. He's literally never had a groove before. If he can stay healthy I think we see a big jump

[api1957 1,783]

16 hours ago, Tiger Refuge said:

*bandname

Hot Take Mcdouchedaddy is the name of my Ted Nugent cover band.

[shabby 1,958]

I'm hoping that with veterans back on the line we get better play. It's just a question of is what we saw all we will get or is there potential for further development. I believe and hope its the later.

[steeleagle 2,945]

14 hours ago, slyinsocal said:

Worst case. Similar OL, but older, wiser, stronger. Best case. With a little portal help, depth. Meaningful depth.

That's what I'm worried about we settle for worst case as it now stands.

I love that guys in the trenches want to return, but I see issues with this. Other than they are better experienced in the HArsin offense and line calls we were an average OL w/ at least Troxell and Brahms rated avg or at the bottom in OL grading over the year.

1. Brahms is good but he is not a big center that is going to move those big NG/DT that the top SEC send at you in the middle. 

2. Brahms and Troxell may be 5th and y year guys, but I don't see that will make them stronger after 5 years of already doing that.

3. Troxell for sure has been injured, I heard from some poster that Brahms is going to have some surgery/rehabbing. These guys are old in the tooth and to me are wearing down.

4. We struggled trying to make that tough 1-2 yards on crucial 3rd/4th downs. Calzada better be smarter in the pocket, bc he will get more sacks on him, if we can't hold the pocket most of the time.

 

I just hope we can bring some OL transfers in here that can compete and at least win some starting jobs, that allows these 'experienced/stronger returnees' to be solid backups.

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

18 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Who made a personal comment?  I said nothing personal about Brahms or Troxell.  Edit, nvm. Reread.  See you were talking about the guy name calling like a child

The entire board is begging for a ton of OL starters in the portal and I get down voted by asking if "We're going to run it back next year with the same OL".  

What's more, not sure anyone is saying we aren't playing the best OL, we just don't have many quality SEC OL on our roster and we're starting the best ones we have, at the moment...hopefully that changes

 

Don't act naive as to why you got downvoted. Same reason you often get downvoted. Coming into threads of players choosing to lay it on the line for a school/team you love and you treat it as if it's a bad thing. 

So let me ask you something...because you are confusing me a bit.

We have 2 starters say they are going to return for their extra year of elg. and you are upset about that because our OL hasn't been any good....but why would these guys returning stop anyone from transferring in? These guys suck right?

You were wanting completely new guys out of the portal right? Why does this change that possibility.

 who we bring in isn't better then these guys then they shouldn't start over them. IF they are better then they likely will. I am not following here.

Very similar to the ZC and CW thread. ZC shouldn't scare off any elite QB transfer, nor should AT and NB scare off any elite OL transfer. 

 

Another note- Remember this OL was not bad in pass pro last year. Run blocking was not good. I think even if we do role with what we have on the OL right now we will be improved. Another year in S/C and more importantly another year in the offense. 

[EastAl_Tiger 228]

55 minutes ago, steeleagle said:

That's what I'm worried about we settle for worst case as it now stands.

I love that guys in the trenches want to return, but I see issues with this. Other than they are better experienced in the HArsin offense and line calls we were an average OL w/ at least Troxell and Brahms rated avg or at the bottom in OL grading over the year.

1. Brahms is good but he is not a big center that is going to move those big NG/DT that the top SEC send at you in the middle. 

2. Brahms and Troxell may be 5th and y year guys, but I don't see that will make them stronger after 5 years of already doing that.

3. Troxell for sure has been injured, I heard from some poster that Brahms is going to have some surgery/rehabbing. These guys are old in the tooth and to me are wearing down.

4. We struggled trying to make that tough 1-2 yards on crucial 3rd/4th downs. Calzada better be smarter in the pocket, bc he will get more sacks on him, if we can't hold the pocket most of the time.

 

I just hope we can bring some OL transfers in here that can compete and at least win some starting jobs, that allows these 'experienced/stronger returnees' to be solid backups.

excellent take.

it seems there's might be a bit of revisionist history going on here as well.  

"of course Nix was never comfortable in the pocket, the OL is terrible"   "Nix left because the O line was trash"  "if we can't make two yards on 2 plays running the ball...."   etc. etc.   I never heard a "except for Brahms" qualifier. 

  not like we're welcoming back the backbone, the nerve center, of a great O line from last year.    if they up their game, great. if not, then it will be the same old lament 

[JerryAU 1,679]

1 hour ago, steeleagle said:

That's what I'm worried about we settle for worst case as it now stands.

I love that guys in the trenches want to return, but I see issues with this. Other than they are better experienced in the HArsin offense and line calls we were an average OL w/ at least Troxell and Brahms rated avg or at the bottom in OL grading over the year.

1. Brahms is good but he is not a big center that is going to move those big NG/DT that the top SEC send at you in the middle. 

2. Brahms and Troxell may be 5th and y year guys, but I don't see that will make them stronger after 5 years of already doing that.

3. Troxell for sure has been injured, I heard from some poster that Brahms is going to have some surgery/rehabbing. These guys are old in the tooth and to me are wearing down.

4. We struggled trying to make that tough 1-2 yards on crucial 3rd/4th downs. Calzada better be smarter in the pocket, bc he will get more sacks on him, if we can't hold the pocket most of the time.

 

I just hope we can bring some OL transfers in here that can compete and at least win some starting jobs, that allows these 'experienced/stronger returnees' to be solid backups.

Good post.

I hope these returner's aren't worn down and haven't already hit their ceiling.  To compete in this conference you have to be able to match up with SEC caliber linemen and I haven't seen that from the veterans yet.  

[Hank2020 3,212]

2 minutes ago, EastAl_Tiger said:

excellent take.

it seems there's might be a bit of revisionist history going on here as well.  

"of course Nix was never comfortable in the pocket, the OL is terrible"   "Nix left because the O line was trash"  "if we can't make two yards on 2 plays running the ball...."   etc. etc.   I never heard a "except for Brahms" qualifier. 

  not like we're welcoming back the backbone, the nerve center, of a great O line from last year.    if they up their game, great. if not, then it will be the same old lament 

I’m not sure if you have the ear of Nix or not but seems unlikely he left due to OL play. If so what was the meeting about? Some guarantee to replace them? Doesn’t sound logical to me.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Don't act naive as to why you got downvoted. Same reason you often get downvoted. Coming into threads of players choosing to lay it on the line for a school/team you love and you treat it as if it's a bad thing. 

Good lord. You act like I kicked his dog and degraded Auburn. Grow up a little bit and be an adult. Just bc it is Auburn doesn't mean it is amazing and perfect. 

Where are you defending everyone absolutely destroying Finley?? Absent.

I'm sorry you can't see we need a massive upgrade on the OL and that upsets you

Edited January 12, 2022 by W.E.D

[W.E.D 11,070]

43 minutes ago, EastAl_Tiger said:

excellent take.

it seems there's might be a bit of revisionist history going on here as well.  

"of course Nix was never comfortable in the pocket, the OL is terrible"   "Nix left because the O line was trash"  "if we can't make two yards on 2 plays running the ball...."   etc. etc.   I never heard a "except for Brahms" qualifier. 

  not like we're welcoming back the backbone, the nerve center, of a great O line from last year.    if they up their game, great. if not, then it will be the same old lament 

Our OL can always get worse, so at a minimum we're going to stay an Avg at best pass blocking team that is really really bad run blocking most of the time.

Having essentially 4 returning starters back is going to be interesting to see how guys react in the protal when there is really only 1 starting spot open.

Yeah, elite guys aren't going to be scared off but not sure there are any "elite" guys in the portal. Say you're a "good" guy. Do you want to go somewhere with an avg returning starter hoping you can unseat them or somewhere with no returning starter where you aren't battling a guy with starting experience in that system/OL teammates.

Right now I'd be pretty shocked if Brahms, Trox, Zierer, Jones aren't 4 of our 5 starting OL next September. 

[auburnphan 6,050]

5 hours ago, cole256 said:

I still think there's a chance that trox can improve greatly

I agree, being a couple of years removed from the injuries he has time to just focus on improving technique and strength instead of constant rehabbing

[augolf1716 21,221]

Glad they are coming back

[Gowebb11 9,339]

6 minutes ago, augolf1716 said:

Glad they are coming back

So are the coaches. Not one of our guys coming back would be doing so without their coaches blessing. And if our coaches wants them back, I’m all for it. 

[W.E.D 11,070]

4 minutes ago, Gowebb11 said:

So are the coaches. Not one of our guys coming back would be doing so without their coaches blessing. And if our coaches wants them back, I’m all for it. 

A bird in the hand type stuff 

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

4 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Good lord. You act like I kicked his dog and degraded Auburn. Grow up a little bit and be an adult. Just bc it is Auburn doesn't mean it is amazing and perfect. 

Where are you defending everyone absolutely destroying Finley?? Absent.

I'm sorry you can't see we need a massive upgrade on the OL and that upsets you

Lot here, friend.

No, you just posted something that I disagreed with and I responded. Maybe I came off a little harsh on the last post. My apologies for my aggression there. 

Show me where I have destroyed TJ? I have never said a bad word about TJ. For some strange reason...you keep bringing him up to me when the conversation isn't even about him. The other day I was talking about Zach Calzada and you come in with that  post "why do you hate TJ" .

Do you think TJ played well? Do you think he can get better? Do you think we needed an upgrade at QB? Let's take that same logic. Are you happy TJ is still at AU and didn't enter the portal? I am. I think he could improve with more coaching. I am also happy we signed ZC who is further along in his development and as of now gives us a better option. Hell I hope we sign another QB better than both. Doesn't mean I want TJ, DD, and ZC to all leave AU.  

How about this....Let's say we sign 3 starter level OL in the portal between now and summer. If Brahms and Troxell left...and we signed 3 good portal guys...where does that leave us? Maybe the 3 are better than Trox and Brahms maybe not. Let' s say for this that they are better. Tell me how in the wide world of sports it is a bad thing to have 2 starters opt to come back for any reason what so ever? Would we not need depth? Do injuries not happen? 

Now you are just being absolutely ridiculous on the last line. I have said many times we need to upgrade the OL, that has absolutely no bearing on the fact that 2 returning starters are coming back. The two things aren't mutually exclusive. I am sorry if you can't see that and sorry if that upsets you. 

edit- revised some verbage because I felt I was being a bit of an ass, regardless if warranted or not. My apologies.

 

Edited January 13, 2022 by Tigerpro2a

[Tigerpro2a 5,650]

3 hours ago, W.E.D said:

Our OL can always get worse, so at a minimum we're going to stay an Avg at best pass blocking team that is really really bad run blocking most of the time.

Having essentially 4 returning starters back is going to be interesting to see how guys react in the protal when there is really only 1 starting spot open.

Yeah, elite guys aren't going to be scared off but not sure there are any "elite" guys in the portal. Say you're a "good" guy. Do you want to go somewhere with an avg returning starter hoping you can unseat them or somewhere with no returning starter where you aren't battling a guy with starting experience in that system/OL teammates.

Right now I'd be pretty shocked if Brahms, Trox, Zierer, Jones aren't 4 of our 5 starting OL next September. 

See when you post reasonable arguments with logic behind it I can appreciate that, man. 

So it seems your biggest concern is that these guys may have a negative impact on us getting portal guys, am I right? 

Why would a good guy want to come to a place where there is a returning starter? Well if the coach says "We need you. Yes we are returning this guy and that guy, but every position is up for grabs. We think with our coaching you could be great here and you get to go up against the best of the best and we will get you to the league and so on and so on. 

Elite, great and very good players shouldn't be worried about our guys at all. If they are scared to what we have then they were probably never coming to us anyways and will likely not be coming SEC period. We have recruited OL worse than most P5 teams and they are going to be scared of our roster? I just don't see it....but again...at least I can appreciate this argument instead of you just posting something negative on what should be considered by most as a good thing IMO.

[W.E.D 11,070]

11 hours ago, Tigerpro2a said:

Why would a good guy want to come to a place where there is a returning starter? Well if the coach says "We need you. Yes we are returning this guy and that guy, but every position is up for grabs. We think with our coaching you could be great here and you get to go up against the best of the best and we will get you to the league and so on and so on. 

I get the pitch, but these guys don't want ambiguity, they want a clear path to a starting role and one with least resistance.

We bring back 4 of 5 starters, I think we'll have a much more difficult time brining in the 3 OL most people have expected.  I've been advocating brining in 2nd year type players that aren't grad transfer type looking towards the NFL after a year, maybe we pivot to those and sell a job after a year of backing up the returning starters, IKD.  Seems like the Cornell kid, ULL kid, and West Kentucky kid aren't really that.

[aubiefifty 16,822]

15 hours ago, augolf1716 said:

Glad they are coming back

are you coming back for another year?

[aubiefifty 16,822]

1 hour ago, W.E.D said:

I get the pitch, but these guys don't want ambiguity, they want a clear path to a starting role and one with least resistance.

We bring back 4 of 5 starters, I think we'll have a much more difficult time bringing in the 3 OL most people have expected.  I've been advocating bringing in 2nd year type players that aren't grad transfer type looking towards the NFL after a year, maybe we pivot to those and sell a job after a year of backing up the returning starters, IKD.  Seems like the Cornell kid, ULL kid, and West Kentucky kid aren't really that.

it is called competition and any player worth his salt would not hesitate to  come to auburn to compete especially if they are that bad. besides i bet another year with serious weight training plus more time working with friend will be a benefit. when the new staff came in they said we needed strength training and our basic fundamentals were not very good. i just believe they improve.

[W.E.D 11,070]

24 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

it is called competition and any player worth his salt would not hesitate to  come to auburn to compete especially if they are that bad.

That's just being naive of today's environment.  These kids with a year left going to an upper level school don't want to come in and compete vs incumbent starters.  They want a job.  Sure, they'll come in and work hard to prove they are capable. 

All held equal, they want the path of least resistance to start & go to the next level.

 

[aubiefifty 16,822]

34 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

That's just being naive of today's environment.  These kids with a year left going to an upper level school don't want to come in and compete vs incumbent starters.  They want a job.  Sure, they'll come in and work hard to prove they are capable. 

All held equal, they want the path of least resistance to start & go to the next level.

 

let me say this and i am done with it. i do not want anyone on the team that is afraid of competition. that is one of the basic tenets of football and always has been. and i am willing to bet the coaches are not guaranteeing anyone a job without making them earn it. and guaranteeing someone a starting job without having to earn it breeds resentment in the locker room. besides it is a slap in the face to any kid who has been there and have been working their behinds off to play. players will lose trust in the staff and all any coach worth his salt would guarantee is a fair shot to start. so i disagree completely. even if it is just going through the motions it has to be done for the sake of the team. how you miss that i have no idea.

[W.E.D 11,070]

12 minutes ago, aubiefifty said:

and i am willing to bet the coaches are not guaranteeing anyone a job

And we'll most likely swing and miss on Torrence, Brooks, and Nourzad.

Those guys are All Conferences in their leagues and not stepping up a level to risk riding the bench.

[oracle79 3,569]

22 hours ago, cole256 said:

Recovering from his injury. This is the year where you'd normally see his knee be fully recovered. Also his confidence has to be better and he probably trusts his leg more.  Also all of them have a year in to know the offense so they can react as opposed to thinking. And this is his first time of sustained playing. He's literally never had a groove before. If he can stay healthy I think we see a big jump

Good points and I hope you are correct. More depth at least if nothing better.

20 hours ago, steeleagle said:

2. Brahms and Troxell may be 5th and y year guys, but I don't see that will make them stronger after 5 years 1 year of already doing that.

You can always get stronger, check the ages of guys in world's strongest man competition. And you can especially get stronger lifting heavier weights as opposed to the previous 4 years of the "crossfit" craze.

[Hank2020 3,212]

22 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

And we'll most likely swing and miss on Torrence, Brooks, and Nourzad.

Those guys are All Conferences in their leagues and not stepping up a level to risk riding the bench.

Surely you don’t suggest we turn down bringing those guys back in order to take a chance on those you mentioned.  Just to try to make them more comfortable to come in.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Hank2020
Added info

[Hank2020 3,212]

Just now, Hank2020 said:

Surely you don’t suggest we turn down bringing those guys back in order to take a chance on those you mentioned.