Editorial From a Christian: A question to conservative Christians on gay marriage: Why draw the line here?

[DKW 86 7,428]

Just now, icanthearyou said:

As human beings, we should be able to rise above mere animal instinct, behavior.  A sense of humanity is the prerequisite.

There are many who claim god but still cannot.  There are many who do not claim god and are able to rise above. 

SSSSHHHH, ichy, i am just being an a**hole and troll here. 

I am blowing up the "humans are just animals" complex with some here. 

If we are all animals, then WTF? Whoever has the biggest gun owns all the toys. 
Monogamy? What is that to an animal? 
Government? Who needs that? I have the biggest gun, I AM THE GOVT.

But the urge to not act as animals comes from our looking to a higher power, to whatever we perceive as God. 

If it were just left to the human animal we would all act like animals and fall back to basically who was the biggest bull in the herd...

 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

I would suggest that Jesus has little to do with much of today's "christianity".   "Christians" follow the bible.  Few actually follow Jesus.

Christians follow Christ. Christ is fully man and fully God. The Bible is His written word to us. There is no way you can separate Jesus from the Bible.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

1 minute ago, DKW 86 said:

But the urge to not act as animals comes from our looking to a higher power, to whatever we perceive as God. 

If it were just left to the human animal we would all act like animals and fall back to basically who was the biggest bull in the herd...

No.  Many who claim god are the worst offenders.  Religion has often been used to justify some of the worst human atrocities. 

We know right from wrong.  We know love from hate.  We know compassion from indifference.  We make choices.

We are choosing to turn away from principles of equality, fairness, justice.  We are choosing a might makes right world.  We proclaim a god yet, we do not follow a god.  We seek religion and reject god.

 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

3 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Christians follow Christ. Christ is fully man and fully God. The Bible is His written word to us. There is no way you can separate Jesus from the Bible.

I believe you have created a graven image.  The bible is not Jesus, is not god or, God.

Jesus said that HE is the word.  Jesus did not make the bible holy.  The Catholic Church did that.

Are you following a religion or, do you have a relationship with Jesus?

[jj3jordan 2,056]

40 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

I believe you have created a graven image.  The bible is not Jesus, is not god or, God.

Jesus said that HE is the word.  Jesus did not make the bible holy.  The Catholic Church did that.

Are you following a religion or, do you have a relationship with Jesus?

Where did you hear about Jesus? Learn what He said? How He acted? How He sacrificed? 

[icanthearyou 4,463]

45 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

Where did you hear about Jesus? Learn what He said? How He acted? How He sacrificed? 

The bible, Sunday school and, directly from Jesus.  Still, the bible should not be elevated to the status of holy, of God.  The status of the bible is purely man made.  It is often used as justification for defying Jesus.

[homersapien 11,388]

On 3/16/2023 at 9:55 AM, jj3jordan said:

...Some laws in the Bible were written to apply to society 1000s of years ago but others contain truths and law that apply to all of us currently, and our justice system is based largely on those laws.

The problem with people like you is that you deny the deity of God and His power, righteousness, and justice. If you can do that then you can use petty word games to try and debase His message and His relationship with His believers.

And any individual is free to decide what is - or isn't - relevant to today's society, based on noting but their personal bias.

Anyone can arbitrarily choose any given passage in the bible and claim it is based on the "deity of God and His power, righteousness and justice".

The problem with that is obvious.  It provides justification to persecute those who disagree. (See Taliban in Afghanistan.  Hell, see the Christo-fascist movement in this country.)

I don't care what people like you want to believe about the bible as long as you keep your beliefs personal and out of our modern politics - i.e. out of the lives of the rest of us. 

That's obviously not happening.

Edited March 18, 2023 by homersapien

[homersapien 11,388]

On 3/16/2023 at 4:31 PM, PUB78 said:

No, the world is at war with God and Christians. They hate the truth and despise the one who died for them.

For those who don’t believe the Bible is true, there are eternal consequences.

When Christ comes back to earth the second time, many will say to the rocks and mountains “Fall on us to hide us from the face of the one who sits on the throne.” With the hatred being directed against anything holy in todays world, I can understand this happening.

Man, that's just flat out paranoid.  

No one "hates" Christians.  Fear maybe, but not hate. 

Anyone who actually thinks non-believers are at "war" with them is obviously primed to fight back.  (That's exactly the sort of sentiment that's motivates the Christo-fascist movement.)

Ironically, it's such irrational paranoia that generates hate.

 

[homersapien 11,388]

On 3/17/2023 at 6:00 AM, DKW 86 said:

That is such a poorly asked question it shows a lack of understanding. 

Man has grown throughout the ages. You are conflating two extremely different times in the Bible. And two completely different dispensations. 

But I can see how to the layman that they would be controversial. 

Gee, you'd think if God is directly responsible for the whole thing, it would be more universal.  

Edited March 20, 2023 by homersapien

[PUB78 1,358]

15 minutes ago, homersapien said:

Man, that's just flat out paranoid.  

No one "hates" Christians.  Fear maybe, but not hate. 

Anyone who actually thinks non-believers are at "war" with them is obviously primed to fight back.  (That's exactly the sort of sentiment that's motivates the Christo-fascist movement.)

Ironically, it's such irrational paranoia that generates hate.

 

Homer,

As usual, you are wrong.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

9 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

The bible, Sunday school and, directly from Jesus.  Still, the bible should not be elevated to the status of holy, of God.  The status of the bible is purely man made.  It is often used as justification for defying Jesus.

LOL. You’re learned from the Bible which you describe as a graven image. And in Sunday school I presume from a teacher who got the info from..the Bible. And directly from Jesus. Was this one on one? Or from Jesus quotations in the Bible? I would never presume to know what Jesus said to you directly. If He did you are a very lucky person. I find it hard to believe He would support you discrediting the Bible. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

6 hours ago, homersapien said:

Your religiosity is on full display.

Religiosity and Intelligence: A Century of Research | Psychology Today

For nearly a century, psychologists have studied the relationship between religious beliefs and intelligence. A recent review and meta-analysis of research from 1928 until the present time, found 63 studies investigating this topic.

The results show that religiosity has a significant negative relationship with intelligence, suggesting that stronger religious beliefs are associated with lower intelligence. While this finding is not new, there are some interesting ideas about why this relationship exists....

Right. Only stupid people believe in Jesus. 
 

How about Satan uses your self described intelligence to convince you that because scientists don’t believe anything they can’t prove; except global warming. And evolution, then they do not exist. They have no faith in anything not proven, except the 50,000 missing links in evolution. So if you have faith in Jesus, God, creation, heaven, hell, God, judgement, those can’t be proven by scientists so you must be stupid.

I’ll take my chances with Jesus as my Lord and Savior and you can tell God how smart you are and how dumb all His followers are.

[DKW 86 7,428]

8 hours ago, homersapien said:

Gee, you think if God is directly responsible for the whole thing, it would be universal.  

You are truly a sad strange little man...lmao...

[DKW 86 7,428]

7 hours ago, homersapien said:

Your religiosity is on full display.

Religiosity and Intelligence: A Century of Research | Psychology Today

For nearly a century, psychologists have studied the relationship between religious beliefs and intelligence. A recent review and meta-analysis of research from 1928 until the present time, found 63 studies investigating this topic.

The results show that religiosity has a significant negative relationship with intelligence, suggesting that stronger religious beliefs are associated with lower intelligence. While this finding is not new, there are some interesting ideas about why this relationship exists....

and here we see the lower life forms once again discussing driveby psychology. If you believe in God, whether you have a PhD or other post-grad degrees, you are a certified dumbass because some pop-psych witch doctor that has never examined anyone in a clinical environment once again manufactured a paper full of suppositions and bull**** for the consumption of certain parties with previously determined narratives. 

touche' homey, you are nothing if not persistent in your bull****...

[DKW 86 7,428]

11 hours ago, icanthearyou said:

No.  Many who claim god are the worst offenders.  Religion has often been used to justify some of the worst human atrocities. 

We know right from wrong.  We know love from hate.  We know compassion from indifference.  We make choices.

We are choosing to turn away from principles of equality, fairness, justice.  We are choosing a might makes right world.  We proclaim a god yet, we do not follow a god.  We seek religion and reject god.

 

I agree with you. I am also pointing out that without a Godly basis for good and evil, all we have is opinion. 

[homersapien 11,388]

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

and here we see the lower life forms once again discussing driveby psychology. If you believe in God, whether you have a PhD or other post-grad degrees, you are a certified dumbass because some pop-psych witch doctor that has never examined anyone in a clinical environment once again manufactured a paper full of suppositions and bull**** for the consumption of certain parties with previously determined narratives. 

touche' homey, you are nothing if not persistent in your bull****...

You are wrong.  

And that's not what the study said. The fact religiosity is correlated with lower intelligence in no way means that all religious people are of lower intelligence.  

 

9 hours ago, DKW 86 said:

I agree with you. I am also pointing out that without a Godly basis for good and evil, all we have is opinion. 

 

"Sociobiology"

Look it up.

Edited March 19, 2023 by homersapien

[icanthearyou 4,463]

12 hours ago, jj3jordan said:

I find it hard to believe He would support you discrediting the Bible. 

I am not.  Now,,, you are bearing false witness.  Man elevated the status of the bible, not Jesus. 

[Leftfield 2,612]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:36 PM, DKW 86 said:

I agree with you. I am also pointing out that without a Godly basis for good and evil, all we have is opinion. 

Opinion is there whether God is the basis or not. Our moral structure is no less valid whether God or mankind put it in place.

You say that if God does not exist, then our morals are completely arbitrary and there is no good or evil. A person's opinion that they can murder with impunity is just as valid as a person who says that is wrong. I would agree that some people think that way, and I am sure that through the history of mankind there are many that have realized there are people like that: People who would act against society and harm others even with laws in place because they believe those laws to be invalid.

If the laws of people are not enough, then perhaps the influence of a greater authority will help people to act in each others' best interests? Sounds like a good reason to create a higher power, doesn't it?

Edited March 20, 2023 by Leftfield

[icanthearyou 4,463]

On 3/16/2023 at 3:31 PM, PUB78 said:

For those who don’t believe the Bible is true, there are eternal consequences.

Wow.  This is new to me.  The bible is key to salvation?  And you "christians" don't worship the bible?

Jesus is the word, the truth, the way, the light. 

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 hour ago, icanthearyou said:

I am not.  Now,,, you are bearing false witness.  Man elevated the status of the bible, not Jesus. 

So you don’t believe God or Jesus       (one and the same) had anything to do with the Bible? All done by man. No deity involved as Spock would say. And no I am not hearing false witness. You are discrediting the Bible by claiming it is a graven image for Christians.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

57 minutes ago, jj3jordan said:

So you don’t believe God or Jesus       (one and the same) had anything to do with the Bible? All done by man. No deity involved as Spock would say. And no I am not hearing false witness. You are discrediting the Bible by claiming it is a graven image for Christians.

Again, man decided that the bible is holy, not Jesus.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

26 minutes ago, icanthearyou said:

Again, man decided that the bible is holy, not Jesus.

Again, God decided that the Bible is Holy, not man.

[icanthearyou 4,463]

Just now, jj3jordan said:

Again, God decided that the Bible is Holy, not man.

How, when, did God do this.

[jj3jordan 2,056]

1 minute ago, icanthearyou said:

How, when, did God do this.

Ask Him. 

[aubiefifty 16,811]

On 3/18/2023 at 10:16 AM, DKW 86 said:

AAANNNDDD that is just your opinion.

If there is no God, then who can judge what is evil? Evil is just your opinion. It has no objective basis, only the subjective which will have 8BN corollary opinions.

In the animal kingdom, we know that Survival of the Fittest is the rule, thanks to Darwin's Theory.

Nietzsche then proposed that Survival of the Fittest was a good thing for the overall good of the herd and of the gene pool. 

Hitler extrapolated all that to the point that Survival of the Fittest was your Duty to Mankind, your Race, etc. 

If there is no God, then you are just placing your opinion on even what evil is on the rest of us. It is totally arbitrary and subjective because who are you to set a standard for the rest of the world?  If the rest of the world objects, by agreeing with you OR disagreeing with you, then we have conflict: or Survival of the Fittest. 

 

On 3/16/2023 at 8:08 AM, AuCivilEng1 said:

The point I’m trying to make is that the Bible was written by human beings and then passed down generations by human beings. Some with motives. At some point it becomes necessary for a society/humankind to determine what is acceptable and what’s not. You can’t govern a society using laws written 3 thousand years ago. And even if you aren’t making laws or rules, using texts that are that old to sway whether you’re open to an idea currently, is counterproductive. It discourages personal growth and adaptation. 

wow. this is the closest to how i feel about the bible. and i can tell you right now i have very little faith in todays christianity. it is just like christians acknowledge Saint Paddys day for removing all the snakes from ireland. it has always been my understanding those "snakes" were pagans. there are so many things in there and there are web sites that point out a lot of crazy stuff i just cannot get behind. i can hate anyone i want without the bible and christians telling me WHO to hate. i feel the christian religion has gotten way off base from what jesus wanted. i do not believe jesus would love all this hate going around that people want to denie is happening. show me a big money making church that will allow the homeless and the prostitutes and other fallen people to sit beside those that are supposed to love them. i will never hate anyone gay, not illegals who are seeking a better life from horrible conditions we would not wish on our worst enemies. i could give a good damn if a man wants to wear  dress or not. and i think christians fighting for militarized weapons and getting them while our people are dying and many of them school children. hell some christians on here hate me because they think i hate christianity. i do not.I am however very angry when hate is brought up in the name of jesus. and that addage of good deeds will not get you into heaven is something i have doubted all my life. i believe that was made up. a good and just and loving god would want his folks to do good deeds every single day. the church has gotten corrupt. look at the horrors of the caths and kids. hell we have have the same problem in alabama with the baptists doing child porn or molesting kids. we are our own worst nightmare. hate is negative energy and hate just creates more hate. hell look at racism. it exists in the church. let me say this. a lot of you will be pissed off at what i said but the church needs to look at themselves.ask why christianity is dying at the moment. people are not fooled much anymore they just keep quiet about it because they will catch hell for speaking up. i worship jesus. i do not worship the church and people get that mixed up. i do applaud the few churches all about love and doing it right but they are a minority from what i have noticed. i am not trying to make anyone mad but i am sure some of you will come at me. go ahead if it makes you feel better.