Payton Thorne

[icanthearyou 4,463]

14 hours ago, TeamZero77 said:

Pretty easy sell to QB's. "Look what we did for Bo Nix's career.

We could do that too!

[cole256 17,084]

3 hours ago, Gowebb11 said:

Agree completely. A great d line makes average LBs and DBs look much better. We need more impact players up front. 

That's how I'm looking at offense as well, that's why I say it's nothing against PT or personal, I'm just very very hard on QBs because on offense it's them and on defense it's the dline that can make a bad team decent, a decent team great. Now I do understand you need o line so the o line can't be complete trash. But if it's just mediocre a good QB makes the defense have to respect the entire field so it makes it easier on the o line, HB, and wr.

[PigskinPat 2,579]

2 hours ago, LPTiger said:

What is the answer to so many questions?   $$$$

That’s a big part of the answer, but there’s more to it than that.

[auburnphan 6,050]

14 hours ago, cole256 said:

You completely lost me with the wasn't good enough to start for his team, like do you guys not realize the last 4 or heisman winners were transfers? The whole putting your fruit in one basket is why we have sucked at QB for so long. 

But there's no reason to keep repeating ourselves over and over I guess. But no I don't blame everybody else for PT struggling. Saying we don't need a super star is just wild to me. But thanks for the convo though I disagree I respect your opinion.

Transfer Cam Newton, transfer Nick Marshall, transfer Jarrett Stidham.  3 best QBs at Auburn over the last 15 years. If you can bring in a better player you do it, I can't, well, I can, believe people are debating this with you.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

4 hours ago, auburnphan said:

Transfer Cam Newton, transfer Nick Marshall, transfer Jarrett Stidham.  3 best QBs at Auburn over the last 15 years. If you can bring in a better player you do it, I can't, well, I can, believe people are debating this with you.

All three were brought in be a coach (HC or OC) that could not evaluate or develop a HS QB.  It would be better, IMO, to develop a QB from a pool that you evaluated for your system.  It doesn’t always work out that way so the portal is an option.

That same coach was responsible for Kodi Burns, Clint Mosley, Kiehl Frazier, Sean White, Joey Gatewood and Milik Willis (a success, but not at Auburn).

We seem to have a coach now that has evaluated HS QBs that have been successful.  It will be interesting how Walker White turns out.

I won’t speculate why Freeze doesn’t seem to be worried about getting a portal QB, but I am excited for the future of that position.

Edited December 19, 2023 by I_M4_AU

[cole256 17,084]

3 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

All three were brought in be a coach (HC or OC) that could not evaluate or develop a HS QB.  It would be better, IMO, to develop a QB from a pool that you evaluated for your system.  It doesn’t always work out that way so the portal is an option.

That same coach was responsible for Kodi Burns, Clint Mosley, Kiehl Frazier, Sean White, Joey Gatewood and Milik Willis (a success, but not at Auburn).

We seem to have a coach now that has evaluated HS QBs that have been successful.  It will be interesting how Walter White turns out.

I won’t speculate why Freeze doesn’t seem to be worried about getting a portal QB, but I am excited for the future of that position.

Pointing out guys that weren't good is moot. Like I said I'm literally talking Heisman winners were transfers, I didn't even go outside of that, like how the best QB in the world was a transfer.... There's not a debate that can be made as far as you can't just say well he couldn't start where he is at so he's not good. Can't argue it. That logic can't work. Period.

[e808 3,028]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Pointing out guys that weren't good is moot. Like I said I'm literally talking Heisman winners were transfers, I didn't even go outside of that, like how the best QB in the world was a transfer.... There's not a debate that can be made as far as you can't just say well he couldn't start where he is at so he's not good. Can't argue it. That logic can't work. Period.

IMO it kind of proved the point. Wasn’t great at developing so went out and got transfers that could get the job done. 

[cole256 17,084]

49 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Transfer Cam Newton, transfer Nick Marshall, transfer Jarrett Stidham.  3 best QBs at Auburn over the last 15 years. If you can bring in a better player you do it, I can't, well, I can, believe people are debating this with you.

It's crazy. You put a guy in a right situation that he's comfortable with? There's no telling what can happen. It may be a gamble or hard to do or whatever people want to say but I'm certain there is a guy that many people may not no of if they got into freeze system they could be a star. It's a QB friendly system. We just need an athlete that can maximize it. We need a running throwing threat. Thats what freeze wants. That's what makes his offenses go crazy. Why on earth would you not literally go after that with all you got, I have no idea. They could scout Texas right now and find a guy if they want hard enough.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

3 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Pointing out guys that weren't good is moot. Like I said I'm literally talking Heisman winners were transfers, I didn't even go outside of that, like how the best QB in the world was a transfer.... There's not a debate that can be made as far as you can't just say well he couldn't start where he is at so he's not good. Can't argue it. That logic can't work. Period.

I wasn’t pointing out the talent of the players, but the misevaluation of the players by the coach.   The only success an Auburn QB transfer that was successful was Wallace and that was because of where he ended up.  I have no problem with second chances and it does work out some times.

The ability of the transfer to start is base on the player believing in himself and the coach he is transferring to gives him the opportunity to excell.

[cole256 17,084]

4 minutes ago, e808 said:

IMO it kind of proved the point. Wasn’t great at developing so went out and got transfers that could get the job done. 

True. Great point. They got Cam on whim really? Imo the young coaches coming up should be all on those type situations. 

I know I would. Sort of like the guy that found ja Morant in basketball... They out there. You might have to be super super detailed but guys have the Internet now. Get it done.

[kingfish 73]

There is an accounting concept known as the cost benefit rule … benefit should exceed cost. I fully think Freeze is by far the most qualified person to determine how a limited amount of NIL dollars will most benefit the team in rebuilding our football program. Whether this involves spreading the NIL dollars around for more positions or a more limited number of positions, Freeze is the right one to make the decision. 

[cole256 17,084]

14 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

I wasn’t pointing out the talent of the players, but the misevaluation of the players by the coach.   The only success an Auburn QB transfer that was successful was Wallace and that was because of where he ended up.  I have no problem with second chances and it does work out some times.

The ability of the transfer to start is base on the player believing in himself and the coach he is transferring to gives him the opportunity to excell.

People leave for different reasons and as far as being successful maybe it's talent or maybe you don't have the opportunity or have bad luck. I feel like gatewood just had bad luck didn't do a good job at choosing schools. Wallace dropped down a level. Bo left and went to where he already knew the coach and system and only had a freshman to battle. JG left here and went on to Battle a 1st or 2nd round draft pick. 

Had he went to a liberty, maybe something like Memphis or Middle Tennessee or something like that who knows. 

And some of the guys lose their confidence and when they do it's damn near over as far as a QB. Joe burrow said he was this close to giving up. If you think about that, that's crazy. That close to giving up or being on of the best college QB all time and corner stone NFL QB. 

 

If it's me it's not even a question. If I hit the reward is much more than the risk 

[cole256 17,084]

11 minutes ago, kingfish said:

There is an accounting concept known as the cost benefit rule … benefit should exceed cost. I fully think Freeze is by far the most qualified person to determine how a limited amount of NIL dollars will most benefit the team in rebuilding our football program. Whether this involves spreading the NIL dollars around for more positions or a more limited number of positions, Freeze is the right one to make the decision. 

Yes we all know this. But for the sake of having a forum we talk about things as opposed to saying well this is what the coach said or did so stop talking. 

If we did that the forum would have around 20 members with around ten posts

[e808 3,028]

11 minutes ago, kingfish said:

There is an accounting concept known as the cost benefit rule … benefit should exceed cost. I fully think Freeze is by far the most qualified person to determine how a limited amount of NIL dollars will most benefit the team in rebuilding our football program. Whether this involves spreading the NIL dollars around for more positions or a more limited number of positions, Freeze is the right one to make the decision. 

This entire process is new to all involved. CHF has acknowledged challenges with NIL and the portal. He could be right or wrong in the process only time will tell.

 For example 2013 Marshall made Auburn offense dynamic and could score at will. IMO the defense wasn’t great but played well in spots.  I recall people talking about how Auburn was going to lose to Mizzou (mostly based on the defense being bad) and Auburn went up and down the field on them.  Unfortunately in the championship game is when the defense reared it’s ugly head.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

25 minutes ago, cole256 said:

And some of the guys lose their confidence and when they do it's damn near over as far as a QB. Joe burrow said he was this close to giving up. If you think about that, that's crazy. That close to giving up or being on of the best college QB all time and corner stone NFL QB. 

Life is a crap shoot.  It’s stories like the one above that keeps up going.

[nthemix 92]

I’ve been negative about PT but will admit that we haven’t had an above average O line in probably a decade … over the past 10 years we’ve been average or quite frankly bellow … maybe with some blocking he’ll be better next year 

[Hank2020 3,217]

1 hour ago, e808 said:

IMO it kind of proved the point. Wasn’t great at developing so went out and got transfers that could get the job done. 

Definitely did not know 2 of the three could get the job done.

[auburnphan 6,050]

1 hour ago, I_M4_AU said:

All three were brought in be a coach (HC or OC) that could not evaluate or develop a HS QB.  It would be better, IMO, to develop a QB from a pool that you evaluated for your system.  It doesn’t always work out that way so the portal is an option.

That same coach was responsible for Kodi Burns, Clint Mosley, Kiehl Frazier, Sean White, Joey Gatewood and Milik Willis (a success, but not at Auburn).

We seem to have a coach now that has evaluated HS QBs that have been successful.  It will be interesting how Walter White turns out.

I won’t speculate why Freeze doesn’t seem to be worried about getting a portal QB, but I am excited for the future of that position.

I am not bashing on Hugh,  but what high school quarterbacks has Hugh developed?

 Has he even been at a school long enough to prove he develops QBs?

Or is it that he is just good at developing his offense around the talent he gets at qb?  Which is a great ability if not equal or better ability to have.

[e808 3,028]

26 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Definitely did not know 2 of the three could get the job done.

Not going down the bash Gus road . Everyone on this forum know what type of QB was needed and all three fit.

[Mikey 16,757]

5 hours ago, Quietmaninthecorner said:

Without a budget that will top other schools at every position (and sport) ,  you are kind of screwed.

It's a mess.

A horrible mess and I don't see a way out of it.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

3 hours ago, I_M4_AU said:

I am not bashing on Hugh,  but what high school quarterbacks has Hugh developed?

LIberty signed Stephen Calvert and Johnathan Bennett out of high school while Turner Gill was the coach, but both found success under Freeze’s coaching.  Bo Wallace signed under Freeze at Arky State, transferred after a year and reunited with Freeze at Ole Miss in 2012.

So he has both the evaluation skills and teaching his system skills checked

1 hour ago, auburnphan said:

 Which is a great ability if not equal or better ability to have.

I think he has these abilities.  This year is hard to judge with what he had to work with.

[auburnphan 6,050]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

LIberty signed Stephen Calvert and Johnathan Bennett out of high school while Turner Gill was the coach, but both found success under Freeze’s coaching.  Bo Wallace signed under Freeze at Arky State, transferred after a year and reunited with Freeze at Ole Miss in 2012.

So he has both the evaluation skills and teaching his system skills checked

I think he has these abilities.  This year is hard to judge with what he had to work with.

Hugh says he doesn’t develop qbs himself, and that qb coaches do that.

fun fact:  Hugh Freeze has never been a qb coach in his entire career

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

11 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Hugh says he doesn’t develop qbs himself, and that qb coaches do that.

fun fact:  Hugh Freeze has never been a qb coach in his entire career

So you asked who has Hugh developed *knowing* he doesn’t coach QBs?  Somewhat disingenuous, don’t you think?

Who ever coached up the Liberty QBs and Bo Wallace, I hope he is at Auburn now.

[auburnphan 6,050]

9 minutes ago, I_M4_AU said:

So you asked who has Hugh developed *knowing* he doesn’t coach QBs?  Somewhat disingenuous, don’t you think?

Who ever coached up the Liberty QBs and Bo Wallace, I hope he is at Auburn now.

His qb coach from Liberty is on staff, not sure Bo Wallace was ever coached up By anyone.  He just got more comfortable in that type of offense.  
 

I actually just looked up if he had ever been a qb coach because so many Auburn fans make claims of him being a qb developer when Hugh himself says he doesn’t work on fundamentals with qbs and doesn’t know that stuff.  Maybe it is the Gus factor of thinking Hugh micromanages every aspect of practice like Gus did.

[I_M4_AU 8,012]

10 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

His qb coach from Liberty is on staff, not sure Bo Wallace was ever coached up By anyone.  He just got more comfortable in that type of offense.  

Bo Wallace didn’t develop until he got to Ole Miss.  Whether you give credit to a coach or not is up to you, but coaches provide the environment to learn and if learning isn’t taking place someone else that is willing to be taught will take your place.

15 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

I actually just looked up if he had ever been a qb coach because so many Auburn fans make claims of him being a qb developer when Hugh himself says he doesn’t work on fundamentals with qbs and doesn’t know that stuff.

What HC takes the time to work on fundamentals at any postition?  That is what postition coaches do.  The bottom line is Freeze has had success with multiple QBs over his tenure as a HC and I hope it continues here at Auburn.  He has to be the one that defines standards for a winning program.  He seems to hire good people for that.

21 minutes ago, auburnphan said:

Maybe it is the Gus factor of thinking Hugh micromanages every aspect of practice like Gus did.

Lord I hope not.  Freeze seems to put more time in relationships than Gus did and let the kids flourish.