Payton Thorne

[Hank2020 3,217]

51 minutes ago, W.E.D said:

I don't totally disagree.  I pray Thorne drops 300 4tds in 2 weeks and we have "hope" to cling to next year and can sell that to recruits.  We have no proof of concept developed in '23. 

On the 2nd part, we're able to sell the future to a bunch of offensive kids this cycle.  I think if we have another year with more sub 100yd games than > 200yd games, it will def get harder.

Agree.  If everyone is correct, if we buy Cam Ward, we might not be able to buy all the HS kids we want.  I love Ward, I think he'd be helpful getting some WRs (I think Thorne is really hurting us here), but not sure he's worth enough to offset other talent improvements.

Next year....I think we have to go hard after an established QB.  Going into year 3 we'll start having a lot higher level talent at Jrs, Rs Soph, and RS Fr levels.  I hope we look a touch like Ole Miss next offseason.  Talent level has risen, start popping off on top end talent

Gotta get the backups some snPs. Never going to get high HS QB recruits if you just keep portaling for the starter.

[tbone4jc 2,241]

53 minutes ago, Win4AU said:

Maybe it was the level of competition, Maybe it was Hugh taking over the offense,  but Payton looked more than adequate from Miss State on.  The Iron Bowl was his worst game in that stretch and even that game he acted as a good game manager and made plays with his feet.  
 

There is a whole other portal window that opens after spring practice.  Maybe if there’s an opportunity there you’ll see Auburn grab a Qb.  It would probably be someone to push Payton and more than likely vie for a backup role.

I don’t think we need a great 5* type QB. IF the current recruits on offense, along with our strong RB room lives up to their potential and the OLine improves, all we really need is a game manager type QB. I believe that PT is that with the ability to run when things break down.
 

 I don’t know what percentage of his incompletion rate were du to drops but if we caught 2/3rds of those I think there is a different picture being painted of PT. 
 
The “we need a QB from the portal “ hype is overblown IMO. OLine is decent and should improve  but we need depth and talent for the future. 

Edited December 18, 2023 by tbone4jc

[Hank2020 3,217]

27 minutes ago, NWALA Tiger said:

I dont think Hugh likes the portal.

Apparently not for QB role.

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

40 minutes ago, cole256 said:

This is what is mind boggling to me, especially with the way they are trying to make him a running threat

Yep

[cole256 17,084]

Even when thinking about the future you need the QB here now and that isn't PT, he won't be here. The QB stuff is more imperative than some think. 

It's crazy to me to say we don't need a star at QB we just need somebody that's ok...... We don't have the talent and we're not going to be in a position any time soon to feel that way. That's the way teams have more talent than everybody else can think. That's bammer a few years ago, or USC when they were on their run, or Clemson a few years back. We're not and likely won't be in that position anytime soon.

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, NWALA Tiger said:

I dont think Hugh likes the portal.

Portal might not like him

[W.E.D 11,070]

1 hour ago, cole256 said:

How? Why do you say that?

I was making an NFL joke

[cbo 7,920]

The ideal scenario to me at this point is to bring in a portal QB that has more than one season of eligibility. Give Thorne some actual competition, have a decent backup if Thorne gets hurt.

And get a guy in the system and ready to go next season. Otherwise, we are going to be right back in the portal looking for a QB. There is no guarantee White will be ready and I don't like our depth. 

I still think there's a very real chance this happens. Nothing Freeze said or did this season suggested he's in love with Thorne. 

[TitanTiger 20,510]

28 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Even when thinking about the future you need the QB here now and that isn't PT, he won't be here. The QB stuff is more imperative than some think. 

It's crazy to me to say we don't need a star at QB we just need somebody that's ok...... We don't have the talent and we're not going to be in a position any time soon to feel that way. That's the way teams have more talent than everybody else can think. That's bammer a few years ago, or USC when they were on their run, or Clemson a few years back. We're not and likely won't be in that position anytime soon.

I don't think the issue for most people is that they don't want or think we don't need a star at QB.  It's that they think Thorne can improve a good bit with a year under his belt in the system and a major upgrade at WR - AND - that Auburn is not a team that is a QB away from competition for championships.  We have more needs than that, even though I'll grant that's important.  We have multiple positions of need both from an impact player perspective and from a depth perspective and while our NIL is healthy, it is not unlimited.  Dropping a huge bag to get a top tier transfer QB means there are some other dudes we can't get.  Maybe we don't keep all those WRs we have committed.  Maybe we lose a LB recruit or two.  Maybe we can't pick up a corner we could use or DL depth.

I'm not sitting in on the meetings and can't tell you that for a fact.  But I think logically it's the most likely reason for our decisions in this area.

[cole256 17,084]

18 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I don't think the issue for most people is that they don't want or think we don't need a star at QB.  It's that they think Thorne can improve a good bit with a year under his belt in the system and a major upgrade at WR - AND - that Auburn is not a team that is a QB away from competition for championships.  We have more needs than that, even though I'll grant that's important.  We have multiple positions of need both from an impact player perspective and from a depth perspective and while our NIL is healthy, it is not unlimited.  Dropping a huge bag to get a top tier transfer QB means there are some other dudes we can't get.  Maybe we don't keep all those WRs we have committed.  Maybe we lose a LB recruit or two.  Maybe we can't pick up a corner we could use or DL depth.

I'm not sitting in on the meetings and can't tell you that for a fact.  But I think logically it's the most likely reason for our decisions in this area.

I feel that. I figured something like that was being said in your pay area by seeing what is being said here. Imo that's thinking it through but not all the way. 

My thoughts are like you mentioned depth. The QB position is one of the positions where that's needed, the lack of it at this particular position has more effect on the team than any of the other positions. 

People keep hanging their hats on the wr and it's not realistic to think all of them would stay and that's if you had a good passing game. We're probably wasting money on one. 

And like I said earlier people are thinking like pieces on a chess board when you need to think more like an engineer, as far as not a QB away. To get that future QB you need to show what you can do at the QB position BEFORE he gets here to possibly get him. We are just seeing ourselves up to be a position where we end up having to offer some stupid amount of money to get one then he'll have incredible pressure to perform, our fan base already acts dumb towards high rated players/recruits if they make insane money just another reason to hate more and he'll still be coming in having to learn a new offense on that one year we really really need him. 

It's sort of like life, I remember I wasn't proposing to my wife because I was waiting for everything to be perfect, but the actuality everything will never be perfect. Luckily I didn't wait long but what if I waited to long and lost her? But that's a bit dramatic but what about you waited years or months that it took for you to build the chemistry you have now? 

It could happen I guess but building up your team and thinking now I'm ready for the cherry on top..... Probably don't happen at all. Imo

[cole256 17,084]

1 hour ago, cbo said:

The ideal scenario to me at this point is to bring in a portal QB that has more than one season of eligibility. Give Thorne some actual competition, have a decent backup if Thorne gets hurt.

And get a guy in the system and ready to go next season. Otherwise, we are going to be right back in the portal looking for a QB. There is no guarantee White will be ready and I don't like our depth. 

I still think there's a very real chance this happens. Nothing Freeze said or did this season suggested he's in love with Thorne. 

It's crazy because the get better people talk about was him deciding to take the ball out of the QB hands and the team played better.... If we look horrible at the qb position another year we lose all of our momentum. Wouldn't even be back to square one it would be back to -3

[TitanTiger 20,510]

7 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I feel that. I figured something like that was being said in your pay area by seeing what is being said here. Imo that's thinking it through but not all the way. 

My thoughts are like you mentioned depth. The QB position is one of the positions where that's needed, the lack of it at this particular position has more effect on the team than any of the other positions. 

People keep hanging their hats on the wr and it's not realistic to think all of them would stay and that's if you had a good passing game. We're probably wasting money on one. 

And like I said earlier people are thinking like pieces on a chess board when you need to think more like an engineer, as far as not a QB away. To get that future QB you need to show what you can do at the QB position BEFORE he gets here to possibly get him. We are just seeing ourselves up to be a position where we end up having to offer some stupid amount of money to get one then he'll have incredible pressure to perform, our fan base already acts dumb towards high rated players/recruits if they make insane money just another reason to hate more and he'll still be coming in having to learn a new offense on that one year we really really need him. 

It's sort of like life, I remember I wasn't proposing to my wife because I was waiting for everything to be perfect, but the actuality everything will never be perfect. Luckily I didn't wait long but what if I waited to long and lost her? But that's a bit dramatic but what about you waited years or months that it took for you to build the chemistry you have now? 

It could happen I guess but building up your team and thinking now I'm ready for the cherry on top..... Probably don't happen at all. Imo

I hear you.  I disagree with it at least at this point in the rebuild, but it's well thought out.

[cole256 17,084]

2 minutes ago, TitanTiger said:

I hear you.  I disagree with it at least at this point in the rebuild, but it's well thought out.

At least this year even in the disagreements I feel like it's nothing personal it's everybody wants what is best for the future. If I was head coach I would always keep a 2/3 star guy that has a ton of potential but needs something on the roster. Me personally I'd go after those athletes that needs more reps or need to be more accurate.... It looks like if you get lucky and hit on those guys .... You can do so much with an offense. To me it would be well worth the gamble. If you miss you probably are getting your next ace recruiter and eventual coordinator that knows everything you want.... It just seem like an easy win/win.

[TitanTiger 20,510]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

At least this year even in the disagreements I feel like it's nothing personal it's everybody wants what is best for the future. If I was head coach I would always keep a 2/3 star guy that has a ton of potential but needs something on the roster. Me personally I'd go after those athletes that needs more reps or need to be more accurate.... It looks like if you get lucky and hit on those guys .... You can do so much with an offense. To me it would be well worth the gamble. If you miss you probably are getting your next ace recruiter and eventual coordinator that knows everything you want.... It just seem like an easy win/win.

Yeah, it helps everyone's feelings a lot when you already know the class is going to be great even if we don't flip the last few on the fence vs hoping it's not a complete disaster with a coach who doesn't give a rat's ass about trying.

[LPTiger 5,173]

3 hours ago, NWALA Tiger said:

My question is this. Why did Freeze waste snaps with Robby? Why not get HG some experience? 

I believe CHF saw real physical potential in Robby.  He was a two sport athlete at Hoover.   Others saw potential in him too hence Oregon giving him a scholarship.   But playing the most important position on the field, particularly at this level, requires more than great physical attributes.   Based on my limited knowledge of RA, he still has a bit of maturing yet to do.  There were several times this past season where RA should have handled internal issues differently.  CHF provided enough opportunities to prove to himself that it was best for both parties to go in a different direction.   RA saw it the same way.   These types of cases are where the portal works for everyone -- we get a freed up scholly, Robby gets a third chance.         

[NWALA Tiger 3,535]

4 minutes ago, LPTiger said:

I believe CHF saw real physical potential in Robby.  He was a two sport athlete at Hoover.   Others saw potential in him too hence Oregon giving him a scholarship.   But playing the most important position on the field, particularly at this level, requires more than great physical attributes.   Based on my limited knowledge of RA, he still has a bit of maturing yet to do.  There were several times this past season where RA should have handled internal issues differently.  CHF provided enough opportunities to prove to himself that it was best for both parties to go in a different direction.   RA saw it the same way.   These types of cases are where the portal works for everyone -- we get a freed up scholly, Robby gets a third chance.         

And we get stuck with a backup QB with basically no experience. 

[LPTiger 5,173]

Just now, NWALA Tiger said:

And we get stuck with a backup QB with basically no experience. 

Yep, to a large degree.   But, the backups will be getting more physical reps these 2 weeks, all of next spring and next fall.  I get it isn't the same as game day experience, but they also aren't sitting on the couch eating chocolate either.   Also, if you look at CHF's recruitment of WW, he believes there is a good chance that that young man is the future.   Maybe 2 5 star and 2 4 star receivers see the same thing.

[Hank2020 3,217]

54 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I feel that. I figured something like that was being said in your pay area by seeing what is being said here. Imo that's thinking it through but not all the way. 

My thoughts are like you mentioned depth. The QB position is one of the positions where that's needed, the lack of it at this particular position has more effect on the team than any of the other positions. 

People keep hanging their hats on the wr and it's not realistic to think all of them would stay and that's if you had a good passing game. We're probably wasting money on one. 

And like I said earlier people are thinking like pieces on a chess board when you need to think more like an engineer, as far as not a QB away. To get that future QB you need to show what you can do at the QB position BEFORE he gets here to possibly get him. We are just seeing ourselves up to be a position where we end up having to offer some stupid amount of money to get one then he'll have incredible pressure to perform, our fan base already acts dumb towards high rated players/recruits if they make insane money just another reason to hate more and he'll still be coming in having to learn a new offense on that one year we really really need him. 

It's sort of like life, I remember I wasn't proposing to my wife because I was waiting for everything to be perfect, but the actuality everything will never be perfect. Luckily I didn't wait long but what if I waited to long and lost her? But that's a bit dramatic but what about you waited years or months that it took for you to build the chemistry you have now? 

It could happen I guess but building up your team and thinking now I'm ready for the cherry on top..... Probably don't happen at all. Imo

Most power 5 teams rely on their starting QB, with no evidence backup will perform.

[cole256 17,084]

17 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

Most power 5 teams rely on their starting QB, with no evidence backup will perform.

Yes most teams don't have an injury to their QB. I think everybody knows this. But most teams don't play or schedule either. So let's think about it, it didn't stop Robby from getting hurt, it didn't stop Finley, it didn't stop Bo, it didn't stop stidham, it didn't stop White, it didn't stop Marshall, it didn't stop Johnathan Wallace, Clint Mosley, luckily it didn't stop Cam but he was hurt in the championship game so there were no games after for him to possibly miss, I feel like Todd got hurt once but that may not be accurate, it definitely didn't stop Cox, and I also feel like Ben heard got hurt, I know he had a battle with another guy Cobb I think and the other guy initially got playing time because of an injury. I'm going to stop there but if I went back further I'm sure it would show some other QB that missed games because they were hurt..... So how about that?

Not to mention they started to run run plays for him so that increases his chances of getting hurt even more. I don't know why people want to pretend that doesn't exist.

And I would argue the best teams in the P5 absolutely have back ups that are good and coached up to perform used to get in arguments all the time with the Gus fantastic 5 fan boy group on how it was dumb to not play our back up QB during bowl outs. And when I think about this situation I think if Clemson,  bammer, LSU, Ohio st, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Florida St, Florida, Ole Miss Tenn Georgia. If you notice a bunch of those teams are our opponents and on top of that many of those teams make up the last champions for the last decade or so. 

So I don't think that stat hold any weight really.

[Hank2020 3,217]

32 minutes ago, cole256 said:

Yes most teams don't have an injury to their QB. I think everybody knows this. But most teams don't play or schedule either. So let's think about it, it didn't stop Robby from getting hurt, it didn't stop Finley, it didn't stop Bo, it didn't stop stidham, it didn't stop White, it didn't stop Marshall, it didn't stop Johnathan Wallace, Clint Mosley, luckily it didn't stop Cam but he was hurt in the championship game so there were no games after for him to possibly miss, I feel like Todd got hurt once but that may not be accurate, it definitely didn't stop Cox, and I also feel like Ben heard got hurt, I know he had a battle with another guy Cobb I think and the other guy initially got playing time because of an injury. I'm going to stop there but if I went back further I'm sure it would show some other QB that missed games because they were hurt..... So how about that?

Not to mention they started to run run plays for him so that increases his chances of getting hurt even more. I don't know why people want to pretend that doesn't exist.

And I would argue the best teams in the P5 absolutely have back ups that are good and coached up to perform used to get in arguments all the time with the Gus fantastic 5 fan boy group on how it was dumb to not play our back up QB during bowl outs. And when I think about this situation I think if Clemson,  bammer, LSU, Ohio st, Texas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Florida St, Florida, Ole Miss Tenn Georgia. If you notice a bunch of those teams are our opponents and on top of that many of those teams make up the last champions for the last decade or so. 

So I don't think that stat hold any weight really.

True, it is a risk. Risk that all teams deal with, my comment still stands that most don’t have evidence their backup can play well. The only ones who actually have decent backups are those that recruit that room each year with higher ranked recruits.

[cole256 17,084]

5 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

True, it is a risk. Risk that all teams deal with, my comment still stands that most don’t have evidence their backup can play well. The only ones who actually have decent backups are those that recruit that room each year with higher ranked recruits.

I feel like they get to see it a bit when they play in blowouts and such. Like you and I had a discussion about Oregons back up. There's not a bunch of stats but there's enough to show promise. A good coach will have his guy prepared plain and simple. And a coach who is running his QB should really really make sure he has one IMO.

As far as high recruits we can look at a team like Kentucky say what you want be he makes sure his QBs can play. I remember when gatewood went there it was a big joke he didn't win the starting position..... This guy is balling in the NFL, Bo wouldn't have beat that guy out, it was just he left Penn St because he couldn't start and going to Kentucky he must suck (another transfer) but he carried that team the last few years, now stoops can use that to QBs now and say hey come here run this team and go to the NFL. We really need a situation like that then we would have some real momentum in recruiting QBs. 

I don't care if the QB has done stuff to make an average can like it or not. I just care they have potential and every single day they are pushing to start making that starter push his limits 

I'm a nuclear engineer, if you go into operations you are going to go into classes with around 7 or 8 different guys. For two years you are going to be tested every week. For the first year or so you will be fired if you don't make at least an 80 on your test. I still remember like yesterday

I started out my first 3 weeks making 100. The fourth week I missed two questions. They were from material from the previous weeks and we weren't told that material would be tested on. It was a 25 question test I missed 2 so I made a 92. I got a "talking to" for making a 92. Some other guys in my class was a guy with a physics degree from Illinois, a quantum physics guy from Oklahoma St, a guy with a doctorate in bio chemistry or something like that, nuclear engineer from Florida, another from NC State, and a nuclear engineer from Purdue  We pushed each other every week.

It was to a point we were arguing with teachers if more than one person missed one particular question. It was crazy. Every single one of us ended up going to license class (a very, very hard thing to do and when you pass you hold a federal license) The plant instructors don't grade you somebody from the government from the NRC does. Before you go through this rigorous testing they talk to you ask you about your family life because you will lose time from them while going through this. You won't have time to do anything else. That's when I took a long hiatus from posting on here. 

Something like that as far as iron sharpening iron needs to happen with our QBs this summer. 

[Hank2020 3,217]

25 minutes ago, cole256 said:

I feel like they get to see it a bit when they play in blowouts and such. Like you and I had a discussion about Oregons back up. There's not a bunch of stats but there's enough to show promise. A good coach will have his guy prepared plain and simple. And a coach who is running his QB should really really make sure he has one IMO.

As far as high recruits we can look at a team like Kentucky say what you want be he makes sure his QBs can play. I remember when gatewood went there it was a big joke he didn't win the starting position..... This guy is balling in the NFL, Bo wouldn't have beat that guy out, it was just he left Penn St because he couldn't start and going to Kentucky he must suck (another transfer) but he carried that team the last few years, now stoops can use that to QBs now and say hey come here run this team and go to the NFL. We really need a situation like that then we would have some real momentum in recruiting QBs. 

I don't care if the QB has done stuff to make an average can like it or not. I just care they have potential and every single day they are pushing to start making that starter push his limits 

I'm a nuclear engineer, if you go into operations you are going to go into classes with around 7 or 8 different guys. For two years you are going to be tested every week. For the first year or so you will be fired if you don't make at least an 80 on your test. I still remember like yesterday

I started out my first 3 weeks making 100. The fourth week I missed two questions. They were from material from the previous weeks and we weren't told that material would be tested on. It was a 25 question test I missed 2 so I made a 92. I got a "talking to" for making a 92. Some other guys in my class was a guy with a physics degree from Illinois, a quantum physics guy from Oklahoma St, a guy with a doctorate in bio chemistry or something like that, nuclear engineer from Florida, another from NC State, and a nuclear engineer from Purdue  We pushed each other every week.

It was to a point we were arguing with teachers if more than one person missed one particular question. It was crazy. Every single one of us ended up going to license class (a very, very hard thing to do and when you pass you hold a federal license) The plant instructors don't grade you somebody from the government from the NRC does. Before you go through this rigorous testing they talk to you ask you about your family life because you will lose time from them while going through this. You won't have time to do anything else. That's when I took a long hiatus from posting on here. 

Something like that as far as iron sharpening iron needs to happen with our QBs this summer. 

I understand your premiss, just not sure at all we should pay for a backup. I understand that you do though.

[cole256 17,084]

10 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I understand your premiss, just not sure at all we should pay for a backup. I understand that you do though.

If he gets hurt or if he comes out being the same QB people will wish we had. We'll see how the season go, but either way freeze will be responsible for whatever happens. Not his wr coach, o line coach, coordinator nobody. Him.

[Hank2020 3,217]

1 minute ago, cole256 said:

If he gets hurt or if he comes out being the same QB people will wish we had. We'll see how the season go, but either way freeze will be responsible for whatever happens. Not his wr coach, o line coach, coordinator nobody. Him.

Yep, he has already said that, I believe.

[Gowebb11 9,368]

10 minutes ago, Hank2020 said:

I understand your premiss, just not sure at all we should pay for a backup. I understand that you do though.

Good post. The thing about paying for a backup in the portal is this: almost all QBs in the portal are leaving where they are for playing time. PT is a 3 year P5 starter. The QBs  worthy of a roster spot are not  interested in standing on the sidelines. (Spencer Sanders seems to be an exception) They want to start. At best, if you want a backup from the portal it’s likely to be a G5 guy like Grant Loy who is happy being a backup because they know their future is in coaching.